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At least some folks in Red are fun to watch...

OK, this isn't exactly about our Reds, but I'll make it up to y'all with a post about my weekend in NYC after this.

 

For those of us that care about soccer (Brendan, me, ???), the European Championships this year has been pretty much fascinating. Especially for me because I just got back from Turkey in January.

Arentzf-647_medium

via image.guim.co.uk

 

Turkey lost their first match to Portugal, but then won their next two to get out of the groups. They just won on Friday on penalties. Out of these 4 games and 390 minutes of soccer, they've been in the lead for 3 minutes.

Their starting goalie was suspended at the end of their third match for a couple games. Due to injuries and suspensions, they are down to 12 field players and 2 goalies (for those that don't know the rules, you have 10 + a goalie on the field and are allowed 3 substitutions).

So this is all pretty exciting from a view of soccer alone. But the political/social/cultural aspects are insane. Turkey is (or perhaps isn't) on the verge of becoming part of the European Union and is seen by just about everyone in Europe as The Other. Plenty of kids are raised in Europe being told that if they don't do their homework, The Terrible Turk will come get them while they sleep. The whole Islam/Christianity split is its own other thing, too.

Turkey's next match to decide who goes on to the finals is with Germany. This match is a whole lot like if there was a Blacks vs. Whites baseball game in the 1930's US. I'll spare boring you all to tears without linking. 

So yeah, I realize that very few of us American folks like soccer, but if you're not up to much Wednesday at 230, it'd be worth checking out. This is the sort of fascinating, history-in-the-making sporting event that is a lot of fun to witness in person. Do yourself a favor and do so.

 

And knowing me, Germany will probably end up winning 4-0 or something. But I'm saying there's a chance... Jimcarrey2_medium


 

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Turkish fans

in Montréal keep going crazy and driving around honking madly for hours after any win. I’m rooting for a loss just so I don’t have to hear that. Or could they at least choose a road that’s not a block from my apartment? Please?

by Gray on Jun 23, 2008 3:06 PM EDT   0 recs

Right there with you

It’s has indeed been a fascinating tournament. Lots of stoppage-time goals, upsets, etc. It’s also good to see the mainstream US media finally pick up on it. I love the way Andy Gray call them like he sees them! Much different than the way sports are broadcast in this country.

It’s a shame the Turks will be without several of their top players, but after the Switzerland AND Czech Republic miracles, nothing would surprise me.

by bengalred on Jun 23, 2008 3:08 PM EDT   0 recs

Agreed.

The Turks have a huge task in front of them facing Germany with 12 players, plus their top keeper out. They should be underdogs, but does making Turkey being underdogs make them the favorites? Such a ridiculous team.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Jun 23, 2008 3:20 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

question from a newbie

I am not, nor eve have been much of a follower of the world’s most popular sport. That being said why is having only 12 players a concern? Aren’t substitutions limited anyway?

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on Jun 23, 2008 6:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It's not going to kill them, but it definitely limits them.

Obviously, if an injury happens, then it’s pretty much catastrophic, and as with any sport with constant motion, fatigue is going to be a concern, but the underlying problems that come up are strategic. A lot of times, you see teams use substitutions for positions in certain situations, like taking off a midfielder for a striker trying to get a quick goal, or putting on an extra defender near the end of the game.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Jun 23, 2008 7:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Is the problem not only having 12 players

but the fact that some of their better players are out?

by Gray on Jun 23, 2008 7:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Definitely.

I’m not sure how many of their normal starting players are out, but I think it’s more than half (and if someone else knows, correct me). Their captain who was responsible for their comeback win against the Czechs, Nihat, is injured, and their first keeper got a red card in that match and is out for another game.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Jun 23, 2008 8:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

He shoved 6'8" Czech striker Jan Koller in the box

It was not a hard shove, and the mountain of a man went down like a rag doll (yup, you can dive on a shove), and the keeper was carded. What makes it really dumb was it was right at the end of the game after victory was secured.

by Brendanukkah on Jun 23, 2008 10:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

This is why

I hate watching Soccer. The game is alright, but the writhing on the ground for 2 minutes as if they just tore an ACL then get up, limp around for 30 seconds and are playing full strength a minute later, really drives me crazy. The wife is a huge soccer fan in that she played it, but is with me on players taking dives. It’s worse than the NBA.

Hey, if I had some place to go I certainly wouldn't be in 'Cleve-Land'. -H.T.Duck

by snohio on Jun 24, 2008 10:36 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed that diving is the worst part

It’s really up to the refs to stop calling it, or even penalizing the floppers, but it can be hard to tell what actually happened in a split second during a fast-paced game. I like to think that Americans have developed a sporting sensibility where we admire people who play through pain, adversity, and fouls. We don’t like to see our advantages won through faking an injury. That may or may not be true, but I’d like to think the American team flops less.

I will put in a good word for the sportsmanship in soccer though. When someone is injured, the team with the man advantage will usually kick the ball out of bounds so that the hurt player can receive treatment and then both teams can face each other at full strength, rather than one team pushing an advantage that is owed to an injury. Then, to return the good sportsmanship, the team that had the injured player and now has a throw-in will throw the ball directly to the opponent, saying thanks for letting us help our teammate. Here’s your ball back. Let’s get playing again!

Basketball fans are also starting to hate soccer even more, because the influx of South American and European players are also bringing this flopping culture to the NBA. Manu Ginobli is one of the more prominent practicers of this technique. As soon as it stops being rewarded, people will stop doing it. It’s just not likely to happen any time soon.

by Brendanukkah on Jun 24, 2008 10:54 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Turkey's lineup past and present...

Their starting 11 for their first game and what happened to them (courtesy of Guardian)

I’ll include name translations for added hilarity

GK: Volkan Demirel (Iron hands): Red Card vs. Czechs for shoving striker Jan Koller. Suspended 2 matches.

Def: Hakan Balta (axe), Emre Asik (love), Tumer Cetin, Hamit Altintop (Golden ball). Balta and Hamit survived, though Hamit moved into midfield. Cetin is very dinged up, Asik is out for the next game.

Def Mid: Mehmet Topal (ruddy/red ball) Mehmet Aurelio (no translation…hes actually a naturalized Brasilian). Topal is still around but moved into Def. Aurelio was suspended last game, but is back.

Att.Mid: Tuncay Sanli (personal fave: holy bronze crescent moon), Emre Belozoglu (son of Beloz), Arda Turan (stake). Tuncay and Arda are suspended for next match. Emre was the team captain, but hasn’t played due to injuries since their first match.

Foward: Nihat Kahveci (Coffeemaker). Injured in last game.

So out of those 11, 5 are certain for the semifinal match. Another couple are possible. Tuncay, Nihat, and Arda have been their greatest players, and are all missing.

And I’m a huge fan of Turkish names, incidentally. Names like Fatih Oztas (I am a conquerer made of stone) are completely acceptable and somewhat encouraged. Another reason they should be cheered on instead of Germans like Schweinsteigher (Pig Climber)

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Jun 23, 2008 8:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

One thing about soccer

that I don’t particularly like is just how boring penalty shootouts are. Even hockey penalty shots are more complex. Kind of a letdown for the Spain-Italy game yesterday to end with a mediocre penalty shot.

by Gray on Jun 23, 2008 3:18 PM EDT   0 recs

Bah - Soccer is for Girls...

Truly though it is great to see U.S. interest on the rise again for the world’s most popular sport .
It would be great to see Grace King (MaCalester College) on the US Olpymic team…what a great player she is.

"When I got my award, I just wore my usual stuff," Dunn said.
"Was it for the Reds organization or all of baseball?" Bruce said.

by Madville on Jun 23, 2008 3:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah but

From the few hockey shootouts I’ve seen, it almost seems like the goaltender has the advantage. At best, it seems like a 50/50 proposition. In soccer, the shooter is much more likely to score on a penalty, so when a keeper saves one, it’s HUGE.

by Brendanukkah on Jun 23, 2008 10:24 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, but it seems much more to do with luck.

i.e. the keeper happened to jump to the correct side. It seems like there’s a lot more complexity involved on both sides in the hockey penalty shot.

Then again, I’ve never attempted either one.

by Gray on Jun 23, 2008 10:42 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I've loved the Euros so far

The first weekend was disappointing, but it’s been gangbusters since. I agree with bengalred that Andy Grey really has been tremendous. He was fantastic in the Spain-Italy match yesterday calling out the Italians’ bullshit diving/stalling and the referee’s indulgence of same.

The thing I love about international soccer is the way you can watch a young player begin to dictate the outcome of a match. Players can do that in other sports as well, but soccer’s pace and style lends a certain inevitability to it.

I was reminded of this watching the first 70 minutes of the Netherlands-Russia match on Saturday afternoon (after failing to find the Yankees-Reds anywhere). Like many viewers without a dog in the fight, I initially was rooting for Netherlands to continue their exciting style of play into the finals, but, over the course of the first ten minutes, I was captivated by Andrei Arshavin and just knew that he would be instrumental in a Russia goal and would probably score one himself. It was so overwhelming that I immediately switched my fickle allegiances. He was instrumental in the Paulychenko’s goal and ended up scoring in the extra time, though I didn’t get to see it.

Turkey has been a team of Arshavins thus far.

Dear Lord, thank you for giving this game your undivided attention. We'll try to be brief so you can return your energies to the movement of the stars and the condemnation of the Jews.

by Man Mountain on Jun 23, 2008 4:13 PM EDT   0 recs

Hear Hear Cy

The Wednesday game is chock full of political tension on top of being a high pressure match in one of the more major sports events in Europe if not the world.

Soccer can be tough to watch if you are fixed on scoring as the only thing interesting in sports. But as baseball fans, and Reds fans to boot, we know that scoring isn’t the only exciting thing that happens in a game. If you are new to the sport try watching to see how each teams style of play is different. In baseball, a teams strengths can be speed or power or pitching or fielding; obviously, championship teams seem to have it all.

In soccer, it is similar. On Wednesday you will see a skilled and disciplined German side that plays solid defense, play their positions well, and don’t make many mistakes. They are physically one of the bigger and taller teams in the world and score a lot of goals on set plays (free kicks and corner kicks). The downside of this is they often lack creativity. You won’t see many flashy plays in the style of the Brazilians but that is not to say they are not exciting to watch. They can string together crisp passes and finish nicely (see the first goal the scored last match against Portugal).

In the little I have seen of Turkey, they seem to be much more of a team that tries to hang on when they are often overmatched and wait for the perfect moment to counter attack (the other team will overcommit on offense and they will push forward quickly before the opponent recovers). They seem unusually good (and quite lucky) at succeeding at this. It will be especially difficult for them without some of their better players who are sitting out after accumulating too many fouls (two yellow cards worth) in the matches thus far, but at this point they cannot be counted out, even if they are trailing late in the match on Wednesday.

It should be a great game, followed by another good one, Russia and Spain on Thursday. Spain is the favorite but Russia is young, fast, and energetic- and probably playing the best soccer of any team left in the tournament.

Tanzen!

by Verka Serduchka on Jun 23, 2008 8:09 PM EDT   0 recs

Other socio-political ramifications

In addition to playing Turkey on Wednesday, Germany has also already faced Poland and Austria. Needless to say, there were subplots, but that happens when you up and conquer Europe a couple times a century. In addition, Lucas Podolski, who was one of the Germans best players so far in the tournament, is a naturalized citizen who was born in Poland. A far-right member of Poland’s government went so far as to propose a measure that would suspend his passport. And in the ugly side of things, some German fans were arrested for chanting “Seig Heil” and “Deutschland Uber Alles” after a win. Racism in soccer is pretty bad, particularly in Europe. Cy alluded to it with the Terrible Turks.

The European soccer community is going to be dealing with a shift, now that two teams that are “European” in the loosest sense – Turkey and Russia – are into the semifinals. Russia especially is poised to become the next soccer power. They have lots of billionaires who are interested in sports and buying teams. Roman Abramovich bought English club Chelsea and added several top players to help them win the Premier League for the first time in ages (think the Yankees. Yes, they’re even worse and more soulless than Man U.). He also funds the Russian national team, which has Guus Hiddink as their coach. He’s a Dutchman and one of the best coaches in the world—and just helped defeat his native Holland on Saturday. Zenit St. Petersburg just won the UEFA Cup (the JV Champions League). Man Mountain already mentioned Arshavin, who is likely to go to one of the top clubs in the world after his performance in this tournament. I would expect Russia to host a World Cup soon (though they might not get a chance until 2022).

by Brendanukkah on Jun 23, 2008 10:36 PM EDT   0 recs

Cincy's Heather Mitts has been named to the USA Olypmic Woman's Team again...

She’s a cutie too

"When I got my award, I just wore my usual stuff," Dunn said.
"Was it for the Reds organization or all of baseball?" Bruce said.

by Madville on Jun 24, 2008 10:23 AM EDT   0 recs

In fact :


She can play on my team anytime.

"When I got my award, I just wore my usual stuff," Dunn said.
"Was it for the Reds organization or all of baseball?" Bruce said.

by Madville on Jun 24, 2008 10:24 AM EDT   0 recs

I'd rather bathe a bobcat than watch soccer,

however, if Madville’s young lady here is on the field then maybe I’m interested.

I’m not bashing soccer. Fine game. It’s just not for me. My school didn’t have it when I was a kid and still doesn’t, so my interest wasn’t sparked by any means. The first soccer game I ever covered (1982) was the first soccer game I ever saw. I knew little about it and the score ended 1-0. That gave me about two paragraphs of a 13-inch story. Fortunately, the coach was very understanding and helped me out quite a bit.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Jun 24, 2008 11:08 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i noticed that too

i guess that name is like “bob smith” over here.

Stephen A. Douglas was a great debater, but Abraham Lincoln was the Great Emancipator.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jun 24, 2008 11:37 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

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