Things that Dusty says, but I don't understand
by sidnancy on Jun 11, 2008 6:14 PM EDT
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PrintEvidently EdE needs to start looking over his shoulder again. Keppinger "was going to play third, but with Jerry (Hairston Jr.) out, we need him to play short"?? Is Dusty insane?
Yea, everyone looooves Kepp. Yea, EdE still chucks the occasional ball into the 3rd deck. But come on - the offensive difference between EdE/Kepp and Kepp/Janish more than makes up for the defensive difference, doesn't it? Does Dusty have a "scrappy white guy" quota he has to meet?
Dear Reds Management and Fans: Edwin Encarnacion is only 25 years old; he just looks like he's 30. He's obviously still growing as a player, and he's also obviously pretty high strung. Please quit screwing with him. Please quit expecting him to anchor the team. Throw him out there every day, day in and day out, and allow him to grow. Is he struggling offensively? Sure, but he's still got an OPS+ of 97 - and his raw OPS puts him smack dab in the middle of MLB 3B this year.
Didn't Dusty just proclaim to the world how much he loves young people? In the long run, EdE's success is 1000% more important to the Reds than Janish's or Keppinger's, and he's younger than either one.
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Hmmm
Very interesting.
Though I gotta say…I think EE will probably have a great career, but it won’t be at 3B. And Keppinger is not a good SS.
Seems a bit impolitic of Dusty to say what he said, though.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
FWIW - I like that ideas, at least for a while.
Keppinger and Hairston have been getting on base with regularity. EdE’s OBP is nothing to write home about.Both Jerry Jr. and Kepping have higher OBP and SLG averages than Edwin. When your team is only getting 3 or 4 hits in a game and relativly few baserunners, a manager might be tempted to play guys that get on base more and drive in more runs than our present 3b man. Neither Kepp or Jerry Jr. are over the hill age wise btw. EdE may well come into his own but I agree w/Bubba = not as a 3rd baseman.
"When I got my award, I just wore my usual stuff," Dunn said.
"Was it for the Reds organization or all of baseball?" Bruce said.
FWIW
EdE’s OBP is .472 in June (before tonight). I think he’s back on the upswing portion of his streakiness.
"Hard being everybody’s hero, I suppose." - Buck O'Neil on Willie Mays
Streakiness, emotionally closed up, limited in what he can do (so far) defensively...
How long until he grows beyond these obstacles? I’ve been a double E supporter for a long time but I’m beginning to stray…I want some fire on this team from the field, to the dugout and that includes Mr. Toothpick, especially Mr. Toothpick. How long until EdE bwecomes a more disciplined hitter…we sure can use some baserunners.
"When I got my award, I just wore my usual stuff," Dunn said.
"Was it for the Reds organization or all of baseball?" Bruce said.
for one thing, i don't see that emotionally closed up is that much of an obstacle
and a lot of the perception of Eddie as such is, I think, somewhat unjustified
But seriously. He’s 25. He’s got plenty, plenty, plenty of time to grow.
Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.
Cantu!
Wow, I knew he was having a good year, but Jorge Cantu is fourth in the majors in OPS for a third baseman, just ahead of David Wright. What do we have to do to get a guy like that onto our roster?
He has 14 errors in 61 games at 3B
He’d be a solid DH
Tools Whore
Sign Bonds!
You know what's funny
the difference between he and Edwin OPS-wise is about a week’s worth of hot hitting for Cantu. Check out their gamelogs (EdE and Cantu). Cantu bottomed out a .733 OPS on May 22nd. Since then he’s put up .347/.388/.722. Edwin bottomed out at .716 on May 30th. Since then he’s gone .333/.463/.606. Who knows, maybe in a week Edwin will be right there with him?
"Hard being everybody’s hero, I suppose." - Buck O'Neil on Willie Mays
I don't think Cantu would necessarily be an improvement over EE
He’s terrible on defense. I don’t even trust him to play 1B. Tyler’s right, Cantu’s meant to be a DH.
It’s not really EE’s hitting that bothers me. It’s his defense. The Reds’ defense in general is pretty sucky. They are ranked 26 out of 30 in defensive efficiency. In the NL, the only team worse on defense than the Reds are the Pirates.
EE’s not good at 3B…and he’s not improving. In fact, he’s getting worse, as judged by BP’s “Rate.”
YEAR RATE 2005 98 2006 95 2007 90 2008 84
Average is 100. Looking at that trend, well, I just don’t buy the “he just needs more time to learn” scenario.
I know, defensive stats are problematic. But I like “Rate.” It usually matches what I see.
I don’t know if Krivsky is right about defense being the fastest way for a bad team to improve, but I do think the Reds need to improve on D.
Unfortunately, Hairston isn’t a very good SS, either. Perhaps Dusty was hoping a decent 3B and a below-average SS would be better than below average at both positions. And perhaps he was preparing for the return of A-Gon? According to his Rate, he’s not the defensive whiz many think, but he’s significantly better than Kepp or Cherry.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
I never look at just one metric for fielding and assume that it is indicative
And frankly, I’m not a big fan of BP’s defensive stats because there is no range component. It’s good if you are trying to comparer players across eras because it works with what was available back in the day. But I’m not sure why you’d use it as the go to number as I think there are more expressive numbers that are available.
Not to say that Rate shouldn’t be considered, and the trend for EdE is disappointing, but the trend is not the same in other metrics. THT’s RZR shows EdE to be having his best defensive year yet. ESPN’s ZR puts EdE middle of the pack for 3B and has his defense as more or less stable over the last two seasons. I wish I had UZR numbers, but MGL only posts the top and bottom group at each position. The good news is that EdE used to be in that bottom group but he wasn’t when MGL posted his to-date numbers last week. Then again, that could be because none of Cantu, Bill Hall, and Carlos Guillen played 3B last year and all 3 are in the bottom 5 so far this year.
The problem with going by what jibes with what we see on defense is that we all see things differently. Personally, I’ve seen some real improvement from Edwin on balls to his left. And I think he’s getting better on the line, but I also think that he’s not as good as he should be on those balls. And I think he’s a little slow getting to bunts or slow rollers. But, I think he’s improving in all of those areas. He’s still got major issues with throwing – which is probably why he’ll end up at 1B – and his instincts aren’t always the best (sometimes he tries to field bunts when he should be covering 3B, etc.). In general though, I think he’s improving defensively.
Keppinger might be an improvement defensively, though I think the improvement will likely be in the form of fewer errors while getting to slightly fewer balls. And i don’t believe that the defensive improvement of Kepp over EdE will make up for what we can realistically expect offensively from EdE over Hairston.
"Hard being everybody’s hero, I suppose." - Buck O'Neil on Willie Mays
Defensive stats
I’m with you on BP’s defensive stats because metrics that aren’t based on PBP data are very questionable (Miguel Cabrera’s Rate is several points higher than EdE’s, as one example). That Encarnacion is solidly in the middle according to RZR and not among the bottom feeders in UZR jibes with what I’m seeing – a young player with decent range but an erratic arm who should hopefully improve over the next few years.
That said, our team defense is really bad and has to be improved if we’re going to contend in ‘09 and beyond (I’m writing this year off. We’re too far out and competing against too many decent teams to make the WC more than a remote possibility). We’re currently second from the bottom in team defensive efficiency, turning only 69% of batted balls into outs. Last year we were third from the bottom in DEF and the year before we were fourth from the bottom. Having two statues in the corners obviously hurts, but this year we’ve also been bad on the left side of the infield. Really, what we should do is start Keppinger at short when he comes back and trade him at the deadline. He’s a fine hitter but miscast as a starting SS. 2B is taken for the next several years (and by our only premium defender), and we should stick with EdE for at least another year before moving him down the defensive spectrum. I think Keppinger, who’s cheap and seems to have the intangibles that contending teams look for, could fetch a good prospect at the deadline. I doubt we’ll do it, but we should at least consider it.
Trading Kepp
That’s actually a very good idea that (1) won’t happen, and (2) would cause widespread beating of breasts and gnashing of teeth if it did.
The guy’s a very good sub – he can play a variety of positions, and has hit decently the past 2 seasons, but he isn’t good enough to be an everyday SS. I just don’t see his long-term place on this team as other than a sub, while another team should see a starting 2B (or possibly a 3B).
I agree that he should be able to be swapped for some real value to someone. It remains to be seen if the brain trust has the balls to pull it off.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
"the balls to pull it off"
Kepp should be the Reds starting 2B, with BP starting at SS. that is one fine fucking middle infield right there, but it will never happen.
If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.
by Charlie Scrabbles on Jun 12, 2008 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
Isn't getting over visual bias part of what defensive metrics (and all metrics) are about?
Plus, EdE’s seen a lot of different guys to his left in the last four years.
Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.
It's not working!
Look…....I’ve listened intently the the arguments supporting EE. I’m truly not against him. However, we have had the same basic core of a team for the last few years and it is just not working for us. Perhaps they are decent players but they are not a good team. I know EE is only 25, but we were saying “he is only 23” and then, “he is only 24” and he is still basically the same player. This team MUST change it’s complexion and dynamics for us to win. Hairston at SS and Kepp at 3rd may not give you power but it gives you two guys hitting over .300. If Hairston reverts to his old self, you could always put AGon out there, when healed. Gonzalez can hit .260 20HR…..and play solid defense. Is that much different, offensively, than EE? There is a time when you must say, “I like EE and believe he has potential but he is not there yet.” and think about either trading him or, if the Reds trade Dunn, perhaps moving him to the outfield.
I'm not saying EE or Dunn, for that matter, are bad players. I just think this team needs a major makeover and you could get good value for Dunn and probably something decent for EE. I just have to agree with Madville in that I'm tired of waiting on EE to fulfill what many think he will.AGon
Gonzalez can hit .260 20HR
Sure he can. He’s hit >20 HR once – in ‘04; but he hit 5 the next year. He’s also hit .260 on occasion; but not in ‘04, and he’s a career .248 hitter.
EdE, for his career has outhit AGon by 20 pts. of BA, 49 pts of OBA, and 49 pts. of SLG. In fact, AGon has out hit EdE’s average BA once, his SLG once, and has never been within his average OBP. So to answer your question, yes it is much different than EdE offensively, especially since AGon’s not played since last year, and that was his best season ever (by OPS+).
And your arguement goes beyond EdE vs. AGon. Once again, someone wants to change something that isn’t the problem with this team. The numerous managerial mistakes is. LLM being on the team is. Josh Fogg and Matt Belisle getting start after start is. Joey Votto’s defense is (he’s much, much worse than EdE).
Often wrong, never uncertain.
Votto
I actually think he’s looked much better defensively than I expected. His big problem is getting the ball to pitchers racing to the bag, but he gets to a lot of balls and makes some athletic plays. MGL has him fifth in UZR so far this year – I think that’s a stretch but not ridiculous.
Two comments
1. Remeber, mgl posts this caveat with his numbers: “The UZR number is "per 150 games," so take it with a grain of salt…”
2. This doesn’t agree with what I’ve seen from Votto. He seems to have decent range, but makes terrible plays (I’ve noticed a couple of balls that should have been caught but weren’t, in addition to the plays to the covering pitcher you note). Of course, I may have only seen his bad plays, so who knows?
Often wrong, never uncertain.
Agree and Disagree
First, my point was not to push AGon as a great player. I realize he is not. I was saying that I would trade EE because I only think he will get marginally better. And, by saying that our team’s problems are all managerial seems like quite a stretch to me since this team has had more than one manager and it has still never gelled. We have poor defense, are not athletic enough in our OF, and don’t have enough good “hitters”. We rely on the HR too much, which makes our offense awesome one night and anemic the next. Our problems go way beyond managing. Now…..I agree with you that I don’t know why Valentin is so highly thought of. He’s had a few big pinch hits but his overall average is horrible. I agree that Fogg should not be our 5th starter and I also agree that, unfortunately, Belisle hasn’t proven anything. I also agree that Votto is not playing good defense at 1b and is probably as bad or worse than EE is at 3rd. However, Votto still has more leash for me because he hasn’t had as much time as EE to improve himself. He also has at least equalled EE offensively in less time.
But…..I think anyone would be hard-pressed to prove that this is a team that is built to win. It just is too imbalanced in too many ways.
Um...
And, by saying that our team’s problems are all managerial seems like quite a stretch to me since this team has had more than one manager and it has still never gelled.
I didn’t. But even at that, look at those managers, and the decisions they’ve made. Some, like Boone and Narron, were terrible managers. Some, like Dusty, have made terrible decisions.
Plus, the team hasn’t “gelled” because for too long, the GMs have been terrible at roster construction. Everyone faulted Krivsky (rightly so), but we also remember Leatherpants and his merry band of toolsy outfielders, and O’Brien and his Not Ready for Prime Time Pitchers.
Finally, if it is true that “we rely on the HR too much”, woe to us. We’re currently 5th in the NL in HRs (in a hitter’s park), and only 8th/9th in OBP, SLG, and (not surprisingly) runs. Obviously, the Reds should be “relying” on something else.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
Well.....
How many winning seasons have we had with the current approach to the roster and strategy of team approach? Really, aren’t we looking for wins?
Of course, our offense is not the only culprit but I do think those stats are skewed by the fact that we might score 10 runs one night and 1 or 2 the next. The nights where our offense really 'breaks out" taints our overall stats because we are not consistent.
Your sarcasm is noted but I think your point is based on hyperbole and does not reflect on our win total. I'm not attacking your intelligence here. Just think the overall stats are deceptive in this case.You're missing my point
EdE is not the problem with this team. If the team quit screwing with his head, maybe he’d play more consistantly. Neither is Dunn a problem; he’s an asset.
Also, it is true that we haven’t had any winning seasons lately. But that is across different “roster(s) and strategy of team approach(es)”. When the pitching is consistantly the worst in the league, that’s not the fault of the starting 3B. When there are 3 catchers on the roster (one of whom is good neither as a catcher nor hitter), that’s not the fault of the starting 3B. When said crappy catcher is sent to PH for the stud ROY candidate (even though he bats from the same side of the plate), that’s not the fault of the starting 3B. When a guy with a career OBP under .300 is leading off, that’s not the fault of the starting 3B.
QUIT COMPLAINING ABOUT THE THINGS THAT AREN’T GOING WRONG. Encarnacion is still only 25; despite what you say, every other comment I’ve read about him thinks he can (and has) grown as a player.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
Oops again
It was the SS popularly termed “the worst hitter in MLB history”, not LLM, who pinch-hit for Hamilton. In my ire, I got my non-scrappy non-white guys mixed up.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
I love replying to my own posts
How bad is Castro? Niefi Perez has 3.8 RC/G for his career; Castro bested that once over a whole season. When he had 5 PA in 1995.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
my posts are being cut-off
sidnancy….....most of my response has been cut out for some reason so I don’t think you’re going to get my overall point. I am not sure how to fix that.
drop the leading spaces
If you start a line with a space, the system assumes it is preformatted text.
also use the reply button
"Hard being everybody’s hero, I suppose." - Buck O'Neil on Willie Mays
He got Slyd?
"I've been rapping for about seventeen years, okay? I don't write my stuff anymore. I just kick it from my head. I can do that. No disrespect, but that's how I am."
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Jun 12, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
i would imagine they want kepp to play 3rd because it is less abusive on his knees when he gets back. I know he’s not one of the cinci fans “rat-pack’ but he helps this team a hell of alot. play him where ever they want to, just play him. ede’s supposed “break-out year” is looking alot like the norm from ede….if he were to become what he could then great… but i think kepp would be better on 3rd at this time.
You are all wrong.
yes we'll put ede on the bench so that we can play janish at short...
it was so obvious!
When it comes to Phil Mickelson...Marty's not a fan.
by chandrathan on Jun 12, 2008 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait... what?
Kepp is NOT in Cincy fans’ rat pack? I don’t know which average Reds fan you know, but Kepp is the mayor of rat-pack town. I’d even make the argument that Kepp is much, much more revered by average Reds fans than EdE is. Also, what’s wrong with the norm from EdE? .268/.344/.448 isn’t A-Rod or Wright, but it’s pretty solid for a 3B, especially since he’s producing runs, averaging 21 HR and 85 RBIs per every 162 games. I’d take the “norm” over EdE at 3B rather than having Janish play everyday when Kepp comes back.
"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands
by BK on Jun 13, 2008 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Let me rephrase....
Okay, hopefully my post will get all the way through. I wrote a really long one before but you only saw a couple of sentences. I doubt I can fully reconstruct what I wrote but let me attempt to. I’m not blaming all of our problems on EE or even on Dunn. We have plenty of problems on this team. As far as the stats you quoted, let’s be real. Stats like that are misleading at times. I’m in the mental health field so I know how stats can be manipulated. Yes, we rank up there in offensive categories but my point is that our offense is so imbalanced and inconsistent that, despite those rankings, we will never win consistently. We have games where we score 9 or 10 and then the next game we score 1. That comes out to a decent average but it won’t win consistently. My whole point is that our roster is way imbalanced. We need more athleticism in the OF, much better overall defense, and hitters who are consistent. Yes, Dunn hits 40 HR’s a year and has a high .OBP. Those are good qualities. But, (and I’m showing my age here), I’d take a player like George Brett over him ANY DAY. Brett was balanced and consistent. You knew what you would get every day and it was all-around good play. He could hit, hit for above average power (for that era), drove in runs, and played good defense. To me, and this is just my opinion (although I watch 90% of Reds games and have for about 20 years), EE and Dunn are not balanced or consistent. I know many of you love them and that’s fine. All I said was that, if I could get something good, I would trade either or both of them. I still feel that way. As for EE’s ceiling, I think his best ceiling would be .280 25HR and 85 RBI with average defense. At worst, he hits .265 18-20 HR and 75RBI with below average defense. The first set are good numbers and even the second set is not horrible. I just don’t think he’s going to be a .300 35HR 100RBI guy. Dunn is Dunn. You either like the type of player he is or you don’t…...and I just don’t. Now….....if the rest of the team were changed, perhaps he would be a better fit. But, the pieces on this team just don’t fit together! That is my biggest point. This group has tried for several years and I just think it’s time for changes to be made…..and I mean some changes that are significant…....but ONLY if good deals can be made. Not trade for trade’s sake. I respect your opinion, sidnancy, but I just don’t agree with all of it.
Wait a second there
You’d take Hall of Famer George Brett, one of the 5 best 3rd basemen of all time, over Adam Dunn? Let me guess, you’d probably take Sandy Koufax over Aaron Harang too?
"Hard being everybody’s hero, I suppose." - Buck O'Neil on Willie Mays
Now, now.....
Slyde, don’t use hyperbole to take away from my point. My point is that I like balanced players. I just am at work and was in a hurry so couldn’t immediately think about someone I like right now in that way.
hyperbole is my point
This is something that people have argued against Dunn for a long time – he’s not as good as Pujols or David Ortiz or ARod. Of course he’s not, these are the greatest players around. Nobody defending Dunn ever argues that he’s an inner circle superstar, but people frequently argue that he doesn’t match up to those players. To which I say, “well, duh.”
Sure, I’d love to have a George Brett type player, but those guys are rare, and when they exist seldom are they available on the open market. We can wish we had one til the cows come home, but it just ain’t gonna happen.
And this is the point that sidnancy is making. Yes we’d like to have a bunch of better, more well-rounded players, but it’s not that easy. Why focus on ridding ourselves of the good players when we have so much opportunity for improvement by dumping the sucky ones and trying to fix those holes first?
(btw, thanks for replying! :) )
"Hard being everybody’s hero, I suppose." - Buck O'Neil on Willie Mays
Consistency
Consistency in run scoring is important (not so much for run prevention), but it’s even more important to simply have a good offense. You could have a perfectly consistent offense that stinks. I don’t know if our scoring has really been that inconsistent this year, though last year and in 2006 we had fairly inconsistent scoring. Who’s to blame? I’m not sure. It seems like all of our major hitters are fairly streaky. In addition to Encarnacion and Dunn, Griffey, Phillips, and Ross seem to be feast-or-famine types. But that’s not based on anything other than my own observations. It’d be interesting to see some actual data that allowed us to compare our guys versus the league average in consistency, if that’s possible.
Read through the article
This is important to the discussion:
Hey, we never said that only good offenses were consistent. The White Sox and Pirates, two of the least productive offenses last year, were at least consistent. They scored in the “sweet spot”—not too many runs, not too few—in more games than expected. And an inconsistent offense is not a hallmark of a poor offense: two of the best hitting teams in baseball, the Red Sox and Yankees, featured highly inconsistent offenses. In case you are wondering, there is no statistical correlation between consistency, as measured here, and overall offensive talent, as measured by runs scored per game (r2=0.0001).
Consistancy in scoring means nothing.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
I did
Not to be flip, but did you? From the second paragraph:
When it comes to scoring runs, game-to-game consistency is a good thing.
The article goes on to support the common sense conclusion that, between two teams averaging 4.5 runs, the team that scores 4 runs in half of their games and 5 in the other half will win more than a team scoring 1 or 8 runs in equal amounts. This is an obviously extreme hypothetical but it makes the point that consistency matters. Why? (1) The marginal utility of an additional run after you’ve scored five is pretty low, and (2) you’re not gonna win many games when you score 1 or 2 runs (and obviously no games when you’re shutout).
Consistency isn’t necessary for a good offense, nor does it guarantee a good offense. I agree that a weak but consistent offense is still weak and I said as much above. I also agree that teams can have good offenses but still be inconsistent. But those offenses would be better if they were consistent.
Yes I did.
After the passage you site, he goes on to explain that teams don’t score runs like that because players can’t control their individual performances, and teams of players certainly can’t control how they score. No matter how “balanced” the team is, it’s going to score a variety of runs.
Sure, it would be great if Dunn saved his 40 HRs every year for when the team was down by a run and there were runners on base. He can’t. Performance is a random event. So we can hope all we want that the offense were more consistant, but the article comes to two pretty solid conclusions:
1. It isn’t going to happen
2. It doesn’t matter.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
I saw that
I’m just not sure if I buy it. The Reds have been feast-or-famine during the last two seasons – maybe that’s random, but maybe it’s not. Just because we can’t quanitfy the potential factors contributing to our inconsistency doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
It does exist
We can quantify it. But that’s completely different from “does it matter?”
What he’s showing is that the distribution of RS follows a curve, and that each team (adjusting the curve for total RS) will follow that curve. If I’m reading the table at the end right, the Reds last year scored 6 runs only 2 more games than expected by their total RS; that looks pretty average.
Think of it this way: Team A is all Adam Dunns. Sometimes, only 1 guy will be hitting (6). Overall, their scoring will follow the curve. Team B is all Ichiro!s. Now they’re going to hit more, but those hits are all going to be singles, so you still end up with the same run distribution.
I guess what I’m getting at is this: There aren’t enough of those .300/30 guys nighthawk wants to build a team with, so you’re stuck with guys who’ll either hit for power or high average. And it doesn’t matter which you build your team with, you end up in the same place in terms of scoring consistancy. That is why consistancy doesn’t matter, even though it exists – you can’t actively do anything to change it.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
I’m saying that we can’t quantify the “why” behind the inconsistency (in game strategies? leadership? or just random variation?), not the inconsistency itself. The “why” is important if you don’t believe that performance is a random event, because if it isn’t you can do things to improve consistency.
In ‘07, you’re right that we only had two fewer games than expected in the 3-6 scoring range. But that’s pretty bad, placing us near the bottom quartile, because a consistent offense will score within the 3-6 run range more than expected (the medium is +1.45). ‘06 saw a similarly inconsistent offense. Maybe each year’s inconsistency was a statistical abberation, but maybe not. Ultimately I don’t think it matters that much; maybe a game or two a year. Aggregate offensive production is much more important, and compromising it in an attempt to improve consistency would be misguided. So I think I agree with your larger point.
Come on
Of course EdE will never be a .300/35/100 guy (first of all because that guy’ll have alot more than 100 RBI) – there are what, 5-10 of those guys in all of baseball?
And as I said above, I agree that “the pieces on this team just don’t fit together”. However, doesn’t it make sense to get rid of the bad pieces (crappy catchers, gimpy ex-star RF, leadoff hitter who hits like a pitcher) than the good?
Often wrong, never uncertain.
Agreed
I agree with your last sentence totally. And that’s why I’m not totally blaming EE or Dunn for our problems. I totally agree that we have poor catchers (and a 3rd one that is mostly useless), that Griffey is fading, and that Patterson has sucked. I’m not an advocate of any of them and would love to replace them. As far as EE, I only would trade him if I got a good return.
But, to say consistency in scoring means nothing, based on one article does not convince me. The Yankees haven’t done much lately either and the Sox got hot at the right time…....which is partly about luck. They also have good pitching, which helps immensely.
I think we agree on my main point which is that this team does not mesh well.
Read the artilce
The Yankees haven’t done much lately either and the Sox got hot at the right time…….which is partly about luck.
The article covers the ‘04-’07 seasons. In that time, Boston won 374 games (.578) and won 2 World Series. The Yankees won 387 (.597) and won their division 3 times (finishing 2nd the other).
But, to say consistency in scoring means nothing, based on one article does not convince me.
He goes through 4 years of data, and shows that both crappy and good teams are both consistant and inconsistant in their scoring. If you can find something that counters his arguements, I’m always open to new ideas.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
you guys are right this team does not mesh well,
As I duck behind my desk, I dare to bring up the concept of chemistry. Or shall I name it ’ Team Culture’... whatever…it ain’t happening with the group we got. Bruce livened things up and has Votto, but as long as we’ve got CoPat, Mr. Toothpick and 3 lame catchers ..then this situation is very, shall we say challenged.
However, don’t forget the walking wounded, who’ll be back soon ,(Jerry Jr., Keppinger, the Froppinger Twins) can make a noticeable difference as they are all capable of hitting the ball and getting on base 3 out of 10 times or so.
"When I got my award, I just wore my usual stuff," Dunn said.
"Was it for the Reds organization or all of baseball?" Bruce said.
No doubt
But what you’re terming “chemistry” is really “roster construction”.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
Same thing, exactly - well put!
Roster construction, line up construction and proper use of the pitchers and bench = Chemistry! Brilliant sidnanacy! Don’t forget Manager’s and coaches..they can have a negative impact on a team that is only average in roster construction etc.
"When I got my award, I just wore my usual stuff," Dunn said.
"Was it for the Reds organization or all of baseball?" Bruce said.
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