Rose, the Reds and Racism

by jgoodfri on May 9, 2008 9:37 PM EDT Comment 101 comments

On the recent Why is Cincinnati So Racist post, the subject was raised of Pete Rose having closer friendships with the black and hispanic players than with the white players in the 60's.

It's true that he did. The following comes from the book Crosley Field by Rhodes and Erardi.

Rose loved (Frank) Robinson and his buddy, Vada Pinson, because the black fielders befriended him when the white players wouldn't; they were upset that Rose had taken (Don) Blasingame's job. Rose splashed on their brand of cologne, wore his baseball pants long and tight like them, warmed up with them on the field before the game. The Reds' front office told Rose to stop hanging around the blacks. "It's bad for your image," he was told. Rose ignored the advice, just as he ignored it when manager Fred Hutchinson passed along the same message from above. Johnny Temple said Hutchinson told him in 1964 to make sure of two things: that Rose didn't hang around with the black players and that Rose learned how to use a knife and fork when he ate.

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Site name change: Race Reporter

I know I saw something on TV last year about Rose befriending the black players. Might’ve been the Ken Burns’ documentary.

by ken on May 10, 2008 12:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No

I think he was befriending jazz-playing Civil War veterans.

"Hard being everybody’s hero, I suppose." - Buck O'Neil on Willie Mays

by Slyde on May 10, 2008 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can we get a mirror over here????

Reading the “regular” RedReporter contributors rant about racism is akin to listening to a dissertation by Bill Clinton about marital fidelity. I just don’t know which one to pick between those two if I am choosing the one that is more disinegnuous. It’s easy to see which ones are more smug, self-righteous and filled withn their own “importance”.

I’m mostly a lurker around here—but I laughed out loud when I read comments like this:

It seems like there are too many people who want to take the easy way out rather than challenge themselves to think a little further. But I guess that’s the general basis for any kind of ignorance.

You can’t believe the snide shit I hear from some of our ‘friends’

....and hundreds more like them coming from the same small handful of people who have seen to it that they run away posters in this very site—for the crime of posting opinions that were different from their own.

Nevermind that the Michael’s or NEILYNG’s of the world were right about what they offered about Bowden, Danny Graves, “the trade” and countless other topics. Those people got banned from this site. O’ they were relegated to the “back of the RedReporter bus” before that happened, but it happened all the same.

Would you knock a man down if you don’t like the cut of his clothes?
Could you put a man away if you don’t want to hear what he knows?
Well it’s happening right here.
Welcome to RedReporter.

by Hudepohl on May 10, 2008 8:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't think that's it at all.

Like you, I was mostly a lurker around here for the Michael and NEILYNG days. I think the majority of the community here would agree (and if they don’t, correct me) that the problem with those posters weren’t WHAT they were posting about, but HOW they would post it. There are plenty of people here who disagree on a variety of issues, and there are discussions that go back and forth on those issues. Those aren’t hard to find on this site. What you WON’T find on this site are name-calling contests, personal attacks, and “shouting matches”, and I think that this is why a lot of people like this site. This is also the reason why idiots like Michael and NEILYNG got the boot.

I honestly think that people can come onto this site with any opinion about any Reds related topic they want to, and find a place to discuss it. However, when they present an argument and someone else offers a good counterargument, and they have to resort to personal attacks (on the poster themselves, like NEILYNG, or on the posters on the site on the whole, like what you’re doing), that isn’t cool. If you want to have an argument about why Michael and NEILYNG were right, be my guest, just expect to hear a counterargument. And if you handle it in the same way they did, you can be pretty sure you’ll see the same fate.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on May 10, 2008 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs

rec'd

by Brian B on May 10, 2008 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What isn't cool (and my hope is you see this being discussed with great civility)

What isn’t cool is to state an opinion and then have a bunch of folks gang up—see the response to most any criticism of Dunn around here.

Just tomight I was taken to task by a guy about a comment I made about Dunn’s squiggler where he swung and nearly missed the ball so dramatically but ended up hitting what amounted to a bunt. yet that same situtaion unfolded with Patterson and a guy quickly stated he hoped Patterson wasn’t awarded a hit on his ball.

Isn’t that being extremely disengenuous???

Welcome to RedReporter.

by Hudepohl on May 10, 2008 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

why use one person's response

To paint the entire site? If you have a problem with a particular poster, address your comments to him. We are far from monolithic here.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 10, 2008 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

him?

that’s sexist!

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 10, 2008 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just my opinion

But I think the reason why people “gang up on you” as you put it, is because on virtually every one of your posts you challenge the entire community with a “welcome to RedReporter” kind of crack. You’re not going to get anyone to listen to you by insulting them all the time, ask Michael and NEILYNG.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on May 10, 2008 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep.

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 10, 2008 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The problem...

Is that you were being sanctimonious about somehow being above all of the bias, yet you were displaying bias towards Dunn.

If you want to have a civil discussion around here and not get ganged up on, don’t make generalizations about the people with whom you’re trying to have a discussion, and don’t act as if you are holier than them.

Makes me think you think we cling to our religion, xenophobia and guns around here.

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 10, 2008 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We do!

Because we’re bitter.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 10, 2008 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

After all of the losing seasons...

Who wouldn’t be?

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 10, 2008 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

double rec'd

It was a lot more than just posting “unpopular” opinions. There was crap like impostering (pretending to be various RR posters on other forums, causing trouble between sites). That’s pure trollery, and deserves banning.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 10, 2008 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

there a lot of Reds blogs out there..if you don't enjoy RR, try another

I enjoy this community because there is such diversity in the opinions and subjects that arise here. Not everyone here is a sabremetricion. I ain’t. Not everyone who participates here loves Dunn – Zach doesn’t but no one has called him out or banned him because he’s in the minority on this point. The only folks banned are the ones who don’t want to engage fairly in discussion or humor. They are the ones who, for whatever reason, are constantly and illogically disruptive of the threads and conversations that are in play.

I offered real life experience in my comments regarding race in Cincinnati and elsewhere. And it certainly is the truth when I posted “You can’t believe the snide shit I hear from some of our ‘friends’. That sir, was in no way disingenuous.

When I 1st came on board at this site I was banned 3 times until I figured out how more objectively post my opinions. And I also learned to respect the opinions of other posters even though I may have thought them wrong. All blogs have a core community and that can lead to the creation of a somewhat specific point of view. I don’t see how a shared point of view is being disingenuous. However bitter incrimination and generalizations like those that you offer certainly could be classified as genuine sour grapes.
I am no CoPat fan, but I certainly don’t want to see him fail. But it is Okay that I can’t help but harrumph around a bit because he does fail so often.
Lighten Up – maybe try a new handle….

Eeyore has more fun than a Reds fan.

by Madville on May 10, 2008 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs

'ville

what kind of store is it you are the gm of?

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 10, 2008 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Furniture.

Fine antiques and art, I believe.

If I lived in Cincinnati, I would certainly visit.

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 10, 2008 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

where is it?

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 10, 2008 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here.

http://www.mwillisfineartdesign.com/

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 10, 2008 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

thank you

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 10, 2008 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

N'prob. I hear...

There’s a special RedReporter discount…

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 10, 2008 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not any more

He said he closed the retail part of his business. He’s now working for another store.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 10, 2008 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes BuubsFan is correct - My retail store is closed

However the business continues onward. I procure and sell Fine Art, European and Chinese antiques, eclectic pieces from Peru and other 3rd world countrys…plus any and all domestic furniture lines of merit.
And I offer design services as well.

Clarification; why I closed the retail part of my biz – I was offered a position with the largest Henredon – Drexel Heritage (Furniture manufacturers) Showrooms in the country (located right here in Cincinnati) as General Manager. As the economy sucks and I’m not getting any younger I took the job and tried to keep my store open at the same time BUT it was more than I could do and do well. So the store part is closed. I guess I should , when I get a free day, change the content of the website…HOWEVER – Anyone wishing to purchase nice quality to high end home furnishings only need to identify themselves via their RR identity and you can STILL get an extra 15% off for being a Red Reporter.

I am also the official red Reporter liaison to the gay design community. Where, by the way there are a lot of Reds fans. Especially my friend Cal who’s still in love with Paul O’Neill. We used occasionally go to some games years ago and Cal would insist that we sit in RF so he could drool over Paul.

Eeyore has more fun than a Reds fan.

by Madville on May 11, 2008 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ah, yes

The joys of outfield seats.

1) They’re cheap.

2) You get to check out the outfielders’ butts.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 11, 2008 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

THAT'S why you never got infatuated with an infielder

by Brendanukkah on May 11, 2008 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nuxhall didn’t call O’Neill “Big” for nothing.

Sometimes 8 Just Isn't Enough

by Pops Daniels on May 11, 2008 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rec'd.

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 10, 2008 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

rec'd from me too

very good post

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 10, 2008 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nice song by Stephen Stills, by the way.

Are you a fan of Neil Young too?

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 11, 2008 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ahhhh man

Rust Never Sleeps its tougher than 10 sets of brass knuckles.

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 11, 2008 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't pick up on that before. Nice catch.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on May 11, 2008 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sounded familiar...

Sort of like the taste/smell of your burps after eating a durian.

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 11, 2008 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Durian

They say it has the taste of all fruits put together, and the smell of the sea when the tide goes out.

I never got past the smell, which has been less poetically described as resembling pig shit, dirty gym socks, vomit, skunk spray, and raw sewage.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 11, 2008 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

All quite apt descriptions.

Having eaten it (once or twice, only out of politeness), I think that it pretty much smells like rotting garbage that contains meat products (i.e., some sort of decaying protein/fat), with a hint of spring onion. It is sweet and creamy also. The texture is close to mango. The burps are truly nasty.

The fruit itself is covered with really pointy pencil-sharp spikes. It grows in tall trees, and if it falls on you (because it weighs about 10 pounds), it will ruin your entire day.

What posessed anyone to eat it, much less even go near something like that, which screams, basically, “Don’t touch me!” is still a mystery to me, but desperation is likely the mother of that.

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 11, 2008 1:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"the trade"

how were they right about the trade? I really don’t remember who thought what about that, other than I did not like it then and don’t like it now.

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on May 10, 2008 9:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

What I recall reading about the trade

I recall well thought out responses that stated that Kearns and Lopez were going to get very expensive, that they were not as good as many Reds fans had portrayed, and that the best addition might have been Thompson.

Now Thompson is doing great things in AA and all the other thoughts have become painfully true.

by Hudepohl on May 10, 2008 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

so far the trade

has not helped the Reds at all. maybe they were going to get more expensive but I really think the Reds could have received better value had they not panicked and rushed to make a deal. Hopefully Thompson will be a contributor if/when he gets to the Reds. But I think they clearly over paid for damaged goods.

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on May 10, 2008 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's a reasonable assessment

NEILYNG’s rants were far more inflammatory. I tried to bring up some of his (many) post-trade diaries, but they’ve been deleted. I guess there’s no way of knowing whose version of history is more accurate.

by Red Menace on May 11, 2008 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ive only been around for about a year now

so i must have missed this NEILYNG character. i remember when i first found the site i started reading the wiki and came across his page. it was mostly self-indulgent kinda stuff, like claiming he was the true creator of RedReporter and his dad invented toaster struedel and stuff like that. i feel like i missed something real.

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 11, 2008 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

http://redreporter.wikidot.com/neilyng-bshakey-castellini

here it is. sounds like a swell enough guy.

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 11, 2008 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it was pretty typical internet trollery

He had been banned by most of the Reds blogosphere by the time he showed up here. He posted under numerous names and had a diary on the Trade about every other day for the month thereafter. At some point he took his act to other blogs and the enquirer comments. I think he claimed to be JD or something at some point.

It’s impossible to rally around his banishment as a sign of cliquishness. Bans were invented for people like that. Incidently Madville showed up right around that time. His early bans were I think because people thought he was neilyng sneaking back in.

And if you ever see jokes about “eating a peach” or “building a bridge” it’s because those were his favorite kissoffs.

by Red Menace on May 11, 2008 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

I think he was trying to start a war between RR and other sites. He claimed to be JD at Trent’s blog. He also claimed Ash was his girlfriend, and posted using the screen names and “style” of many other Red Reporters. He did the same thing at several other SB Nation blogs.

(If you found when we switched over that your screen name was registered at other SB Nation blogs, but you never registered there, it was probably him, pretending to be you.)

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 11, 2008 7:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The victor gets to write the history.

Eeyore has more fun than a Reds fan.

by Madville on May 11, 2008 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

very true

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on May 11, 2008 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was right about the trade

That is woudln’t make a real difference for either side. I guess you can say “Washington got the best of the reds” but Lopez and Kearns still aren’t doing so hot in that new park…

Norris Hopper's #1 fan!!!

by Zach K on May 12, 2008 7:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Today

Washington would probably pay Lopez’s contract if you would take him off their hands. He is a clubhouse cancer.

Kearns is hitting with no power and his average is around Dunn’s, which means very low.

Bray has been hurt his whole time as a Red—but that was no one’s fault

Majewski was probably damaged goods—but again that just proved that Bowden was a snake something that Michael and Neil stressed all along.

Thompson has incredible stats in Chattanooga:

Player W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV IP H ER SO WHIP
DT 2 1 1.45 7 7 0 0 0 43.1 30 7 44 0.85

by Hudepohl on May 10, 2008 11:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

So let me "take you to task" again.

And try to strip away at least some of the veneer of superiority over us, the unwashed “gang” of Red Reporter, since you seem a bit unwilling to answer my questions.

1. If you believe that the “gang” at Red Reporter displays bias with respect to Corey Patterson, the Trade, Scott Hatteberg, Adam Dunn and Griffey, then was there bias inherent in your remark regarding Dunn and his dribbling single?

2. Are you yourself perhaps stereotyping when you make generalizations about what the “gang” at Red Reporter thinks about various issues? Does that make you just as “bad” as the rest of “us”?

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 10, 2008 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, and...

3. If you are wrong about something (such as, for example, the entire “gang” rooting against Corey Patterson and Hatteberg), would you admit it and say you’re sorry for generalizing?

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 11, 2008 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

this guy just won't stick around for his beating

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 11, 2008 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You mean, of course...

His “bonk, bonk on the head.”

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 11, 2008 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i guess i got here a few minutes too late

bummer. ive got insomnia and could use something to do.

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 11, 2008 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

me too dude

me too

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 11, 2008 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

'sup 'than?

did you see LeBron do his thang tonight?

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 11, 2008 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i saw the last ten minutes of the 4th quarter

he apparently still didn’t shoot well, but at least they won!

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 11, 2008 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I should go to bed but I have been trying to catch up with all the action here

Tanzen!

by Verka Serduchka on May 11, 2008 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The woods are lovely, dark and deep,

But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep…

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 11, 2008 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We should have a poetry night here some time

Tanzen!

by Verka Serduchka on May 11, 2008 12:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

there once was a man from nantucket

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 11, 2008 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It must be some combination...

Of lack of sleep and pistols at ten paces with Mr. Hudepohl, but that was really funny.

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 11, 2008 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps...

A game thread in which posts must be some form of poetry (limericks included, of course).

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 11, 2008 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you'll have a lot of reading to do then

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 11, 2008 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I made it through all the stuff on race

and then hit the random fanposts about Bowden and Benzinger and Oniell

Tanzen!

by Verka Serduchka on May 11, 2008 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lots to digest

did you read the game thread?

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 11, 2008 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry for dissapearing

all of a sudden. My internet connection spontaneously combusted shortly after this comment.

I then went to bed.

Tanzen!

by Verka Serduchka on May 12, 2008 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

hey Verka

nice to see ya. how’s island life?

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 11, 2008 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good, real good.

Ate too much rice and beans today, though.

And pork. Yumm. Pork.

(I was a vegatarian before I moved here)

Tanzen!

by Verka Serduchka on May 11, 2008 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i dated a Vegan once

when i told my mom, she misinterpreted and thought i had become one. so she told everyone i was a Vegan. so when my grandpa said, “i heard something about you boy, and im kinda worried”, i replied, “what, that im a communist?” (which was kinda true at the time). and he said “nooooo, nothing THAT bad!” it was funny.

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 11, 2008 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did she have pointy ears?

Eeyore has more fun than a Reds fan.

by Madville on May 11, 2008 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

like i said, he's just playing soft

so he doesnt embarrass everyone. if he played up to his full potential he’d probably be burned as a warlock or something.

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 11, 2008 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i'll be rooting for the cavs

unless they are playing the pistons

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 11, 2008 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the pistons huh?

tell me someting…when people call him “Rip Hamilton”, do they just not realize his name is really Rick? i mean, whats that all about?

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 11, 2008 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i dunno, it's dumb...

i just root for tayshaun

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 11, 2008 12:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he's a tough guy.

i respect him. Billups is a royal pain in the ass though. i hate that guy.

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 11, 2008 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah and chauncey is a stupid name as well

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 11, 2008 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

its really a girls name.

tee hee!

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 11, 2008 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's sexist.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on May 11, 2008 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's racist.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on May 11, 2008 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just want to state for the record

Michael did not stress anything about the trade. I can’t remember him expressing a bit of opinion on it. He posted almost exclusively about Adam Dunn and too a lesser extent Edwin/Joe Randa.

Sorry to gang up on you.

by Red Menace on May 11, 2008 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't be sorry.

I’m not. You should read what he did in the game thread.

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 11, 2008 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ah

Maybe I’ll get to that later tonight. My internet was down around gametime.

by Red Menace on May 11, 2008 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thompson has incredible stats in Chattanooga

seems like I remember Kearns and Dunn having pretty fair minor league stats, point being they traded proven ML starters for over valued pitching. Pitching that has not, and probably will never pan out.

And yes, Kearns is really struggling with his BA this year. As far as power goes he really was never a slugger type hitter anyway. More of a line drive gap hitter who occasionally got one up in the air. Hopefully he’ll get his stroke back. As far as Lopez goes I have no idea if he is, or is not, a

clubhouse cancer.

. Do you have any documentation for that? Either way, he was quite a bit better than Clayton.

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on May 11, 2008 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

maddux finally won number 350 tonight

that is a lot of wins

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 11, 2008 12:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

is he the most underappreciated pitcher of his generation?

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 11, 2008 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ive actually been a little research about that

i was thinking of posting it one of these days, but basically i came to the conclusion that he is as good or better than Clemens, who is almost unquestioned as the best of this generation. Maddog is incredible.

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 11, 2008 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, I think he's actually gotten a lot of press.

Particularly when he was with the Braves. A lot of it, ironically, dealt with how low-key and underappreciated he is.

That being said, he does not seem like he is a jerk, unlike a number of other really good pitchers.

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 11, 2008 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lots of pitchers have had great stretches

clemens, pedro, santana, smoltz, gagne, hampton, randy johnson, schilling etc…

but maddux has just been so good for so long.

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 11, 2008 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

True.

With all that’s been revealed about Clemens, Maddux may truly be the best of his generation who did not use male enhancement.

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 11, 2008 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

espn used to do interviews all the time with him and tony gwynn

i always thought maddux looked really dorky in those glasses he wore.

but the chicks dig the long ball commercials were awesome!

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 11, 2008 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great stretches

check it: here’s Maddux from ‘94-’95 (strike-shortened, but still check it)

Innings   K/BB       ERA+   WHIP
'94         202         156/31    271       .896
'95         209.7      181/23    262       .811

for all the ink that Pedro gets for his monumental 99-2000 stretch, i think Maddux is there every step of the way.

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 11, 2008 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well that didnt work

anyway, my point is his best 2 year stretch is as good as anyone elses. so not only was he great for a long time, but his peak is as good as anyone else’s as well.

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 11, 2008 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And those two years were the tail end of 4 straight Cy Youngs.

And that was THIRTEEN years ago.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on May 11, 2008 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jesus dude

looking back on those Braves teams, its hard to imagine how they managed to win only 1 World Series. incredible…

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 11, 2008 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

pretty shaky bullpens come October

by Red Menace on May 11, 2008 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

those stats are supposed to be innings, K/BB, ERA+, and WHIP

and for ‘94 they are 202, 156/31, 271, .896.

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 11, 2008 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Back to race ...

things are looking scary in the Rhineland.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoF3SbtYR20

by ken on May 11, 2008 7:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hitler was good in the beginning, but then he went too far.

—Marge

by Brendanukkah on May 11, 2008 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because even if it were true...

being close minded to someone because of their baseball ideology and being close minded to someone because they’re a different race than you.

...are totally the same thing.

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on May 11, 2008 5:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

And yet humans and chimps have about 95% the same DNA

In otherwords… we’re all pretty much the same…

People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.

by crolfer on May 11, 2008 11:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Incidentally, I think the Mets and chimps have something like 99% the same DNA.

Just sayin’.

by Brian B on May 11, 2008 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's see...

Kearns: No doubt, he’s struggled this year. But for a year and a half before that, he was pretty good. Plus, he’s generally considered the best defensive RF in the game.

Lopez: Meh. But he was vastly better than Clayton was, and even outperformed all of the other SS the Reds trotted out there in his stead (Aurillia was more than neutralized by Clayton).

Thompson: Two years later, and still in AA.

Clayton: Sucked. Always had.

Majewski: Krivsky forgot to ask if he was hurt; lovely 8.29 ERA since in the bigs

Bray: The “good” reliever; the “potential closer”. His ERA is a mere 4.98 as a Red (though he does sport an impressive 1.6 WHIP).

Harris: Oh yea, him. He was an “important piece” of The Trade. So important, in fact, that the Reds gave him away. He’s started 164 games for 2 other teams since the Reds dumped him.

Missed in all of this is that it’s wrong to think the Reds would have been stuck with Lopez and Kearns as they got expensive; they were under no financial obligation to them beyond ‘06. In fact, the Reds would have been better off non-tendering them after the ‘06 season, as not a single piece they received in The Trade has actually helped the team; in the cases of Clayton and Majewski, they’ve done damage.

So “ganging up”? Only on people who don’t check their facts. Oh, and I’ve always supported Patterson’s signing (though I’ve questioned his pay).

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 12, 2008 9:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i think we have forgotten (as is easy to do)

that Lopez and Kearns were above average starters at their positions when we dealt them. in fact, they were pretty damn good. the biggest problem with the Trade is that Krivsky didnt get even close to value for those guys. regardless of what any of the players involved have done since or could do in the future (Bray could become the next Billy Wagner, Thompson could win 4 Cy Youngs) the trade was a terrible move because Kearns and Lopez were worth far more than what we got in return.

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 12, 2008 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs