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Why Is Cincinnati So Racist?

Cincinnati_medium

So I just came across this and it was presumably brought on by this blog post about Ken Griffey Jr. potentially leaving and all I could think was how utterly predictable it all was.

I'm not from Cincinnati, not even from a suburb. You could maybe call Hillsboro, Ohio an exurb, but I think even that would be stretching it, as it's about the same distance from Hillsboro to Columbus (and Dayton for that matter) as it is to Cincinnati. That being said, I always identified with Cincinnati growing up, I consumed the Cincinnati media, and pulled for the Cincinnati teams, but I never really understood the racial issues and general idiocy of so many people who live there.

I don't think its at all a stretch to say that it really is worse in Cincinnati than it is in most other cities. Cincinnati is still the most recent city in America to have race riots. The Ken Griffey Jr. saga has always had racist undertones. No matter what you might think about Chad Johnson (and I've certainly given up on him, but not until I felt it was justified which was this offseason) there were definitely racist things going on there as well when it came to fan response.

For some reason, Cincinnati has a particularly toxic climate when it comes to sports, and this is a big part of it. And if you disagree I challenge you to listen to Cincinnati talk radio or read the Cincinnati.com or MLB.com boards or look at the man love for every white guy who plays hard in this city and tell me you don't see what I'm talking about.

**Obvious disclaimer, most Cincinnatians aren't racist, etc. etc. etc. and so on, but this is a real issue there and it definitely pertains to quite a bit of Cincinnati sports discussion. Also I realize this is probably outside of the scope of Red Reporter's usual fare, but that Daugherty blog post really got to me for some reason. So here we are.

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Beats me, but it’s a question that people in Cincinnati ought to be asking themselves. The demographic makeups of Dayton and Columbus are almost exactly the same. What is it about the city on the river that gives so many blatant haters so much free rein? (If I had to guess, I’d argue that the vileness of talk radio in the city gives permission and cover for even greater vileness among its listeners.)

I grew up outside Dayton and once considered living in Cincinnati, which I described as the only interesting city in Ohio. Not any more.

Racism is a moral failure akin to child abuse and rape. How so many people can justify engaging in it is beyond me.

by justcorbly on May 8, 2008 7:57 PM EDT reply reply   0 recs

I tend to agree with you

I think the issue that I see often is that there is an openness to being intellectually lazy. It seems like there are too many people who want to take the easy way out rather than challenge themselves to think a little further. But I guess that’s the general basis for any kind of ignorance.

I don’t really blame talk radio, though they are an enabler. If the public didn’t grab a hold of what they were saying, they would just say something different until the public listened.

It gets crazy on the road, and awful lonely. That's why I love pornography. This next song is all about my love of hardcore, barely legal pornography.

by Slyde on May 8, 2008 8:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Whoa
Racism is a moral failure akin to child abuse and rape.

There’s a whole lot in that sentence that needs to be carefully parsed. I get where you’re headed in psychological terms, but actions are actions are actions.

'cause something is happening here, but you don't know what it is.

by Man Mountain on May 8, 2008 9:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   1 recs

excellent point

"Hard being everybody’s hero, I suppose." - Buck O'Neil on Willie Mays

by Slyde on May 8, 2008 9:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Well...

...after all these years, thats how I’ve come to think about it. Racism is obviously a moral failure. Having accepted that, it’s a judgment call to decide how to rank it among other moral failures.

In any case, I think racism is a universal human characteristic, just as the inclination to commit criminal acts knows no boundaries. Part of being civilized and socialized is to recognize the desire to take your bosses laptop or the desire to act on your attraction to his wife. We all feel desire and lust, but almost all of us have learned to think before we act. People who engage in racist behavior don’t follow that pattern. In many cases, they don’t even know their behavior is racist and offensive. In many other case, they do know and they don’t care.

There are social, as well as legal, sanctions for stealing your bosses laptop or acting on your attraction to his wife. Fewer sanctions exist for racist behavior. Perhaps that part of the problem.

by justcorbly on May 8, 2008 10:58 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I am not sure

you can legalize morals. Or adjudicate them either

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on May 8, 2008 11:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

isn't the whole legal system based off of morals?

otherwise why would anything be illegal?

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 8, 2008 11:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Agreed.

Any law will have a normative element to it.

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 8, 2008 11:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I probably worded that wrong.

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on May 8, 2008 11:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Most people...

...would find a strong correlation between the criminal code and behavior they consider immoral.

You can’t defend against a criminal charge or a civil action by arguing that “I am not sure you can legalize morals”. You won’t stay out of jail by arguing that what you did was not immoral.

Much openly racist behavior is illegal. Refuse to sell a house or a meal to someone based on skin color and you’re asking for a court appearance. Other racist behaviors aren’t illegal but are still just as offensive to their targets. Writing a blog post linking an athlete’s ability and desire with skin color is not a crime, but it is immoral and offensive.

Almost all of us have a kind of internal switch, a conscience, perhaps, that intervenes when we feel an emotional urge to engage in illegal or offensive behavior. People who engage in racist behavior seem to ignore that switch.

by justcorbly on May 9, 2008 8:26 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

good points

FWIW, on Tom Tango’s blog they have informally adopted a series of awards for bad contracts in the offseason (on either the team’s part or the player’s part). One of the awards is the Gritty White Guy award, as players of that type often seem to get an unusually large contract relative to their production. So that kind of racism isn’t restricted to Cincinnati, though I agree that it’s certainly the case that it exists in Cinci.

The Eric Davis saga was the most prominent example that I remember in terms of apparent racism-driven public opinion regarding a ballplayer. Sometimes, at least as I remember it, the discourse boiled down to “come on, boy, shake it off and play.” (say that in a southern accent and you’ll hear it).

As for how people can justify engaging in it, it’s probably the case that everyone is racist on some level. If not toward African Americans (or, in reverse, Caucasians), then toward Asians, Latinos (think about the immigration debate for a second…), etc. I think the important thing as an individual is to try to be aware of one’s prejudices in order to actively work to eliminate or at least reduce them. I don’t think there’s much to be gained by pretending they don’t exist (e.g. Stephen Colbert’s “I don’t see color”), but rather to confront them in ourselves and then try to modify our point of view via new experiences.

Anyway, just my $0.02.
-j

by JinAZ on May 8, 2008 8:17 PM EDT reply reply   0 recs

its obvious

its in southern ohio and there are still a lot of racist rural people

by columbusOHcubsfan on May 8, 2008 8:38 PM EDT reply reply   0 recs

city folk just don't get it

It gets crazy on the road, and awful lonely. That's why I love pornography. This next song is all about my love of hardcore, barely legal pornography.

by Slyde on May 8, 2008 8:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   1 recs

then watch more reds games

you’ll understand

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 9, 2008 3:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

im a cubs fan

i understand you issue though

by columbusOHcubsfan on May 10, 2008 11:07 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

i'm not sure you do

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 10, 2008 9:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

that statement isn't inflamatory is it?

People don’t stop and think before speaking, or typing.

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on May 8, 2008 10:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I know in my heart of hearts that the wealthy white elite in this town are disturbingly racist.

The sports teams are and have been owned by those aforementioned white rich elitists.
From Robby to Lee May to Eric Davis, even to Barry Larkin – this town has never truly welcomed black/minority athletes. Anthony Munoz, Tony Perez, Archie Griffin, Joe Morgan were well received but never a part of the fabric of the city’s movers and shakers. Even Reggie Williams was eventually ‘put in his place’

I have had the pleasure and the humiliation of working with/for some of the richest white people in this part of country on an almost daily basis for over 25 years. Many of these people have good intentions, would give money to help the needy and believe that they are righteously non racist – but. almost to a person they wouldn’t allow their daughter to marry a black – not ever a “Brahman.”

I will not go into detail on this blog and name names and situations that I’ve seen up close and personal and I’m not a native to the city although I’ve lived here for 30 some years. My son in law is black (I’m white), my son’s fiance is Hispanic, daughter #2 is hot and heavy with her long time boyfriend (he’s Jewish she’s an agnostic Catholic) god forbid if daughter #3 wants to marry her sister!
I love all these folks – but you can’t believe the snide shit I hear from some of our ‘friends’

Go Jr – Go Dunner – Go – EdE – Go Dusty – Go BP….wait a minute Dunn is white…but he is from Texas…...Go Reds.

Eeyore has more fun than a Reds fan.

by Madville on May 8, 2008 8:58 PM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Reggie Williams

With all due respect, Reggie Williams was voted to city council. That shows some level of acceptance.

Then again, we should probably clarify; Cincinnati itself is not a racist city. However, the concentration of population that rings Cincinnati is quite prejudiced/racist.

by bobestes on May 8, 2008 9:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Way too easy to blame the rich white people because they have all the power and all your money

Isn’t 98% of America employed by white people who are rich? I’m not quite sure that’s what you are trying to say, but that’s where it seemed to start.. I’m pretty sure a comparable prcentage of middle and low class white people are racist too. It’s just far more common and acceptable to bash those who embitter us. We could blame Cub fans because we know we’ll get support from almost everyone, but that doesn’t make it their fault.

by Brian B on May 9, 2008 2:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I know in my heart of hearts that the wealthy white elite in this town are disturbingly racist.

I have found this to be true as well.

by Pops Daniels on May 9, 2008 2:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I disagree about it being a race issue with Griffey

Most Reds fans were/are frustrated with his injury history and how we only got one season of his prime. Now I believe Griffey thinks more people are after him then there really are but that is another discussion in it self. Now maybe it is because I am a little younger then most bloggers on this site but I tend to roll my eyes when a “race” story breaks out. In recent memory the only time I can recall a true racist moment was the Don Imus Saga because that really was racist and just plain being an asshole.

As for Chad I’m not sure what the overall city view is of him. As for the students and friends of mine I go to college we are happy for Chad that he is getting out of Mike Browns mess much like Corey Dillon did. We don’t hate him because he “talks smack” or “dances after a TD” we realize that he is one of the top 4 WRs in the NFL and how he put the Bengals on the NFL map.

Norris Hopper's #1 fan!!!

by Zach K on May 8, 2008 9:12 PM EDT reply reply   0 recs

really? Why?

I like to read what you think

Norris Hopper's #1 fan!!!

by Zach K on May 8, 2008 9:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I'm too lazy.

Check out what other people have said below. They pretty much encapsulate what I’d say in my response.

The sentence that bugs me the most, however is: “In recent memory the only time I can recall a true racist moment was the Don Imus Saga because that really was racist and just plain being an asshole.”

There have been plenty of real racist moments in recent memory.

Start with Bill Clinton comparing Obama’s campaign to Jesse Jackson’s campaign after the South Carolina primary. Then listen to the recent speech of Rev. Jeremiah Wright at the National Press Club. Then go to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s recent remarks on how Israel is a “stinking corpse.”

Plenty of real racism to go around, folks.

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 8, 2008 10:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Also..

Chad Johnson’s not really one of the top recievers in the NFL, is he?

I don't know how to paint a banana gourd to look like a Power Ranger.

by Fat Vegas Alan on May 8, 2008 10:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

well the ocho cinco had a down year last year

but I believe for 05 and 06 he had the most receiving yards

by johnny cueto thinks we're sellouts on May 8, 2008 10:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Hmm...

It is arguable, but that was one of the few sentences I actually agreed with.

Moss is better. Steve Smith is better. Marvin Harrison is better. It’s hard to find a fourth one.

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 8, 2008 10:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Chad

Benefits from having a very good qb throwing to him.

That being said, he’s one of the finest route-runners and is a technically superior wide receiver.

by bobestes on May 8, 2008 10:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

The others...

Aside from Smith (who has a rogues’ gallery throwing to him without Delhomme) do also (Brady, Manning).

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 8, 2008 10:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

not sure

about the qb myself.

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on May 8, 2008 11:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

i take exception with your list

harrison is no longer better than johnson…

wayne is better than harrison

and tj is better than chad

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 8, 2008 11:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

TJ

couldn’t be a #1, nor should he be paid as one.

by bobestes on May 8, 2008 11:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

he was a number one last year

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 8, 2008 11:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Welll

I’d argue that Chad drew some heat away from TJ, who spent much of his time in single coverage

by bobestes on May 8, 2008 11:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

your argument would probably be valid

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 8, 2008 11:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Wait till this year

Lets see what he does with double coverage and Palmer overthrowing him…

Norris Hopper's #1 fan!!!

by Zach K on May 8, 2008 11:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

palmer will be fine

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 8, 2008 11:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

And a Black president!

I don't know how to paint a banana gourd to look like a Power Ranger.

by Fat Vegas Alan on May 8, 2008 11:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

actually, i don't think we can have a black president this year...

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 8, 2008 11:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

unless there's a lot of death

and miss rice takes over

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 8, 2008 11:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

pwned

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 8, 2008 11:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I remember when Reagan got shot..

And Al Haig said he was “in control here.”

Even though it was Tip O’Neill…

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 8, 2008 11:31 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

either waywas

pretty freakin scary

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on May 8, 2008 11:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Unless...

We get to the Secretary of State in the chain of succession.

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 8, 2008 11:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Uh, you mean half-black

or, as rich white optimists in Cincinnati say, “half-white”

by Brian B on May 9, 2008 6:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Yeah

It is is not so much the question is chad a great WR but for me it is more is Carson Palmer a great QB? We will save that for a football debate though ha

Norris Hopper's #1 fan!!!

by Zach K on May 8, 2008 10:55 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Nitpicking, here..

As I understand it, Reverend Wright’s speech was relatively genial and pretty well-received. It was his remarks/ridiculous stage show during the following Q&A session that caused the uproar.

I don't know how to paint a banana gourd to look like a Power Ranger.

by Fat Vegas Alan on May 8, 2008 10:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Picky, picky, picky...

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 8, 2008 10:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Yeah

here is how I look at it

Clinton was trying to put Obama’s credibility down…and that remark hurt Hillary in the race…it was hateful but I’m sure if Hillary was neck and neck with Edwards Billy Clinton would make some cheap shot towards him as well.

Rev Wright was around a time where white people treated black people awful for no reason other then being black. It doesn’t make what he is saying “right” but he does have the right to say that if it doesn’t harm anyone.

I’m not saying that there is no racisim I just don’t think majority of “Griffey haters” hate him because he is black.

Norris Hopper's #1 fan!!!

by Zach K on May 8, 2008 10:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Well

This is nitpicking, but black people still get treated pretty awful just for being black.

by bobestes on May 8, 2008 10:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Yes but that can be said for anyone

Radio stations openly broadcast White Hate speeches but many people don’t think twice about that.

I’m not saying white people are or aren’t treated awful…but at UC when I play with my friend in basketball they always make fun of me saying “ha White Guy playing ball” or when I make a tough shot “Oh Larry Bird”. I think it is funny but it could be considered “racist” and OMG how awful but it really isn’t a big deal

Norris Hopper's #1 fan!!!

by Zach K on May 8, 2008 10:52 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I can’t blame you for this perspective; God knows it has been voiced ad nauseam, most notably by the anti-affirmative action crowd. However it completely ignores the societal (not to mention historical) context in which racist comments are made in contemporary American culture. As white men who might encounter such racist occurrences as the white hate speeches or obligatory "Larry Bird" comments mentioned you and I have the luxury of knowing that the vast majority of the community we live in (over 70% nationwide) is comprised of similar people, meaning that even if these stereotypes or messages were indeed true we share them with most people in our country. Quite different than hearing equally irresponsible and/or baseless remarks when you are part of a community which makes up a fifth or less of the US population, don’t you think? Not to mention the kind of additional emotional tripwires that exist due to the historical precedent of exploitation and subjugation based on racial qualifications in this country. I’ll step down from the soapbox now. What better way to acclimate yourself with a new group than by diving into a race relations thread!

by Bill Doran on May 9, 2008 12:13 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I see your point

Norris Hopper's #1 fan!!!

by Zach K on May 9, 2008 7:50 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Ugh.

You are missing the point.

You say: “Clinton was trying to put Obama’s credibility down…and that remark hurt Hillary in the race…it was hateful but I’m sure if Hillary was neck and neck with Edwards Billy Clinton would make some cheap shot towards him as well.”

Just because Bill Clinton would have done something bad to a white person, like Edwards does not make the statements he made (i.e., Obama = Jackson because they are both black, ergo you can dismiss them both) non-racist.

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 8, 2008 10:56 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

shoot

Look at what she’s saying now. He can’t win the white vote. Translation: the black guy can’t win.

by bobestes on May 8, 2008 10:58 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Yep. That too.

At least no one is trying to defend Ahmadinejad.

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 8, 2008 11:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I will

I haven’t actually heard his most recent comments, but a lot of things he catches heat for are translation issues.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 8, 2008 11:32 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Hmm.

Can’t speak to that, since I do not know Persian, but I haven’t ever heard him complain about mis-translation.

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on May 8, 2008 11:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I think he says

exactly what he means in a manner exactly how he intends it to be understood by “us”

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on May 8, 2008 11:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I don't think he can

He doesn’t speak English (or doesn’t speak it well enough to catch the nuances).

But plenty of other people have complained.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 8, 2008 11:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs