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Great Game, But ...

Pitchcount_medium

Um, WTF Dusty?

Can't really see the reasoning behind that in a game the Reds were winning 9-0. And it's not like the bullpen needs resting the day before an off day.

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agreed

The oddest thing was that nobody was warming up. If Aramis had gotten a hit and things fell apart Edinson would have had to throw quite a few more pitches while the bullpen got going.

Volquez got out of the inning by digging deep and getting some extra life on his fastball. Brantley was very impressed by the speed, but that’s when things get very dangerous for a young arm.

by Red Menace on May 7, 2008 7:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

after whoever it was singled, the Cubs broadcast showed the bullpen coach taking the tarp off of the mounds.

'cause something is happening here, but you don't know what it is.

by Man Mountain on May 7, 2008 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's been photoshopped

I can’t find anywhere on the net where the pitches have been circled. How do you expect Dusty to notice if it hasn’t been highlighted for him?

I’m only concerned about the pitch count because of two reasons:
1. Volquez pitched a lot with men on base today. High pressure innings where he had to step it up.
2. Volquez was struggling in his last inning. He walked 2 and seemed to be pressing to finish the inning. It’s unnecessary stress in a 9-0 game.

But it was a fun win, so I’m going to remain blissfully ignorant and hope that the unnecessary pitches don’t come back to haunt us.

It gets crazy on the road, and awful lonely. That's why I love pornography. This next song is all about my love of hardcore, barely legal pornography.

by Slyde on May 7, 2008 7:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm going to disagree a little

I’m a little weird in saying this, but I want our young pitchers to struggle here and there. I’d rather them traverse those situations with a nine run cushion as opposed to a one run game. Baseball at the MLB level is a mental game more than a physical one

I say that Edinson learned that he can pull his own ass out of the fire he created today. That seed will bear great fruit in the future, say next year when it matters.

Please Note: I may be totally full of shit.

by jch24 on May 7, 2008 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have no problem with him struggling

but he was struggling all day and getting himself out of the fire. I don’t believe it was necessary in the 7th inning. He only had one 1-2-3 inning all game. I don’t think there is anything wrong with taking him out in the seventh because he looks gassed.

It gets crazy on the road, and awful lonely. That's why I love pornography. This next song is all about my love of hardcore, barely legal pornography.

by Slyde on May 8, 2008 6:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty funny interview with Votto

ESPN news interviewed Votto by phone about the 3 jacks and Adam Dunn pestered him the entire time. Pretty entertaining.

The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!

by TheC on May 7, 2008 8:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Seriously...

How can anybody not like this guy?

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on May 7, 2008 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know what channel this is on Adam!

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 7, 2008 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i get the feeling that Adam Dunn

is like the dude on my high school basketball team that would sneak up behind you in the locker room shower and pee on your leg.

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 7, 2008 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

did he tell you it was raining?

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 7, 2008 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

no

but he would wipe his ass with your towel when you werent looking. i think he’s a teacher now.

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 7, 2008 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he should die

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 7, 2008 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reminds me of:


This guy and

Eyore has more fun than a Reds fan.

by Madville on May 7, 2008 8:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This guy even more

/Mark-Prior—First-Game-Photograph-C10108942.jpeg&imgrefurl=http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/90557&h=129&w=103&sz=25&tbnid=4_EtkWnYow4J:&tbnh=129&tbnw=103&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dphoto%2Bof%2Bmark%2Bprior&hl=en&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&cd=3”/>

Eyore has more fun than a Reds fan.

by Madville on May 7, 2008 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really?

People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.

by crolfer on May 7, 2008 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I mean this guy

If the picture turns out

Eyore has more fun than a Reds fan.

by Madville on May 7, 2008 8:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't see 118 pitches as a huge deal when a pitcher has 6 starts under his belt already

The bullpen has been hit pretty hard in the past 10 days with Ceuto and Arroyo’s outings that lasted less than 2 innings. It does concern me that he had nobody warming up as EV’s pitch count got close to 120. I don’t like to see pitchers go above 120, and this sends up a red flag that Dusty is going to flat out ignore pitch counts in games that are out of hand, I am pretty sure that Prior and Wood had some incredibly high pitch counts in September in games that the Cubs had comfortable leads. I would be a little more concerned if he let Cueto or Bailey throw that many pitches on a regular bases because they are a little younger. EV logged a combined 178.2 innings last season and 154 in 2006, so I don’t think 118 pitches is that crazy. It wouldn’t be unthinkable to pencil Volquez in for 200 innings this season.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 7, 2008 8:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i just had another thought

I am a little more concerned now that Waynes gone. I think Wayne had some limits for the young pitchers that Walt won’t have. We all saw what happened to Matt Morris in St. Louis. TLR abused him, he had an injury early in his career, bounced back for a few impressive seasons, but now his career is over at a seemingly young age. I have not seen anything in writing about Krivksy keeping tabs on the pitchers, but I am inferring he would because of his caution with Homer Bailey.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 7, 2008 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pitch counts

If you look at pitch counts that past couple of years, it looks like Krivsky had it at about 120 max. There were a few instances where pitchers went over 120 (Arroyo last year, and the team took a lot of flack for it) but it seems that pitchers typically were pulled in the 110’s at the latest.

So far this year, pitch counts seem the same. Harang and Arroyo under 120, Volquez was 100 at first, 120 lately, and Cueto only over 100 once, I think. Like you said, we’ll see what the Walt/Baker combo brings.

For all the crap Baker gets about pitch counts, it’s interesting to look at his pitch counts when he first started out in San Francisco. When Bob Quinn was the GM, Baker’s pitch counts were 100 or less more than half the time. When Sabaen took over, the sky was the limit.

For this game, I think he started the inning under 100. I let him start the inning, but I also have thepen warming up. I would have pulled Volquez after the walk.

by rojosoto on May 7, 2008 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"it wouldnt be unthinkable to pencil Volquez in for 200 innings this season"

not if his arm falls off in August.

now of course that is a bit hyperbolic, but seriously. with everything we know about youth and pitch-counts there is no excuse for letting someone like EV throw 118 pitches in a game. in any game. ESPECIALLY in a game led by 9 runs. but ESPECIALLY in a game where the ‘pen has the next day off. i can tolerate a certain amount of ignorance from my baseball team, i mean, they just arent going to know how to run a team as well as i can. but something as rudimentary as pitch counts has to be on like page 4 of Dusty’s orientation booklet.

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 7, 2008 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Volquez will probably get an extra day off before his next start

If he goes over 110 in his next start I will be concerned, but it he goes over 110 once every 6 or 7 starts I don’t think his arm will fall off. But like I said the biggest reason I am concerned is Dusty and Walt’s track record.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 7, 2008 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Define Jocketty's track record

Here’s Morris’s rookie season in 1997. LaRussa the manager and Jocketty the GM.

He was kept under 100 pitches per game (except for a 103 count start on May 11) until the 2nd to last start in May. That May 23 start was 116 pitches. He stayed at or below 110 until July 16. Other than one 121 pitch start on July 21, he never exceeded 120 pitches.

by rojosoto on May 7, 2008 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not seeing why 110 pitches

is the magical number. For some guys it might be 80, others 125

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on May 8, 2008 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was at the game (LUCKY ME!)

I couldn’t see the pitch count but I figured it was over 110. The concerning thing is that Edinson always pitches well enough to put up this kind of pitch count every game. Plus he was laboring, as Cueto was the other day. Its troubling. I hope it is reigned in.

by Blue on May 7, 2008 9:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

this is what makes his performance so earth-shattering

its obvious he still has work to do. this is a dude leading the NL in Ks and ERA and HE STILL HAS WORK TO DO!! HE CAN GET BETTER!! oh, and his name is not Homer, neither is it Cueto. this is so awesome!

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 7, 2008 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like where you're head's at

Seriously, the young talent on this team makes me giddy. I have no idea why they’re dragging their feet on Bailey and Bruce. They should be up here tomorrow.

by Brendanukkah on May 7, 2008 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You have to tell us

obc and I were at the game. You need to meet us so we seem like real people, damnit. :)

Please Note: I may be totally full of shit.

by jch24 on May 7, 2008 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well unless the Reds skip Bronson

He will get an extra days rest. How ugly does the Saturday matchup look? Arroyo vs. Santana. Yuck.

Find me on MySpace- http://www.myspace.com/mixfmkyle

by MixFMKyle on May 7, 2008 10:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

mightaswell start the weakest pitcher against Santana

and hedge bets of the other two games. It would be better if the other two starters came from the group of Harang, Volquez, and Cueto, not Matt Belise.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 7, 2008 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brantley said it best the other day...

Its garbage that a quality start is considered 6 innings of work. I think Dusty is trying to send a message that he expects his picthers to put in 7 innings of solid baseball.

by joektoe on May 7, 2008 10:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Rob DIbble said the same thing on XM radio.

It is so easy for relievers who work 1-2 innings, at most 3, unless it is an unusual situation, to say well starting pitchers should throw a lot of innings. Brantley was a starter for a brief period of time and was pretty awful.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 7, 2008 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The odd thing about "quality starts"...

...is that I don’t think I’ve very often heard them discussed except by analysts and PBP guys casting aspersions at the defining parameters of a “quality start.”

FWIW, I think that Vin Scully created the term (and said parameters) in order to give some credit to an MLB team’s back-of-the-rotation guys when they go out and “keep their team in it.” It’s a nice way to say, “Hey, will you look at that… Matt Belisle didn’t throw up all over his dick today.”

I think “quality” is kind of supposed to be spoken softly and applied loosely. Kinda like saying “Glad All Over” by the DC5 is a quality rock and roll recording.

I’ve got no problem with that. (And I’ve got no problem with Vin.)

I don't know how to paint a banana gourd to look like a Power Ranger.

by Fat Vegas Alan on May 7, 2008 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

i think there is something to the quality start stat

I know that much of it depends on luck and it doesn’t do much to predict the future, but I like the starters to go at least 6 innings. I am more concerned about innings than earned runs, because generally if a guy is going 6 or 7 innings he isn’t giving up too many runs unless the bullpen is really really hurting.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 7, 2008 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

quality

You hear it all the time. “They call 6 innings and 3 runs a Quality Start. That’s a 4.50 ERA! That’s not exactly what I’d call quality. Bob Gibson used to… grumble… grumble…”

These critics always fail to grasp that those parameters are the minimum requirements. Rob Neyer once looked at the ERAs of pitchers from the past year in their Quality Starts and Wins. In Quality Starts pitchers had a substantially lower ERA (and other peripherals). That makes sense if you think about it. Pitchers can give up any number of runs and still get the win. The only bar to cross is 5 innings and Quality Start goes one better than that.

For what it is QS is a very useful tool. Peyton Manning doesn’t play defense and starting pitchers aren’t expected to pitch 7+ innings every time out. Times change.

by Red Menace on May 7, 2008 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

does winning factor into quality start?

Should not the team be required to get the victory? Or at the very least, the pitcher should be in line to get the victory when he exits the game.

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on May 8, 2008 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So Harang's start on Tuesday was not quality?

It gets crazy on the road, and awful lonely. That's why I love pornography. This next song is all about my love of hardcore, barely legal pornography.

by Slyde on May 8, 2008 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just asking?

Or is this one of those times when winning is over valued? Was it a good game by Aaron? yes. Was it a great game? no.

I just think the QS stat is one of those BS things created for the sole purpose of $$.

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on May 8, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't disagree

that’s why I’d rather look at Game Score than quality start. Then again, I don’t really look at either that much.

It gets crazy on the road, and awful lonely. That's why I love pornography. This next song is all about my love of hardcore, barely legal pornography.

by Slyde on May 8, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't understand

For the sole purpose of $$? Who’s making money?

by Red Menace on May 8, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

brendan's mom, for one

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 8, 2008 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I bet the "quality starts" get thrown around by the agents of second and third tier starters.

But I don’t know if that’s what Caleb meant.

I don't know how to paint a banana gourd to look like a Power Ranger.

by Fat Vegas Alan on May 8, 2008 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What's worse?

A couple extra pitches? Or pitching someone 3 days in a row that’s had, say, recent shoulder trouble?
You decide, 2008!

He had alot to say.
He had alot of nothing to say.
We'll miss him.

by sukr on May 7, 2008 11:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah

didn’t Dusty openly worry about Brays durability during spring training? Well I guess the best way to find out if he is durable is to pitch him 3 days in a row. I guess this is still better than last June when Narron ran Majewksi out there 15 times in 8 days.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 7, 2008 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Clownboy is living in the past (along w/the AntiClog)

Back in the early 20th century up until around 1965 or so starting pitchers were pretty much expected to go for at least 7 or 8 innings. Times and expectations have changed. David Weathers suggested that Brantley Shut the Fuck up or go get his uni on and get out on the field and pitch. DW was talking about JB’s tirade on desire, but I think Stormy’s response fits just as nicely here.

You see, Jeff and Rob, good managers today, are armed with all kinds (statistical) information that wasn’t available back in the day. And they are able to make winning adjustments, set up highly functional lineups, oversee their bull pens and know the limits of their starters. So while you guys and Dusty complain about how great the old ‘Dodger Way’ was….the Reds continue to flail.

Eeyore has more fun than a Reds fan.

by Madville on May 7, 2008 11:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

it is different

the game is more offensive than it was 50 years ago. Guys are stronger and there are more quality hitters now than there were at that time. At that time positions like shortstop and second base were seen as primarily defensive positions and as long as they stayed above .200 it was ok. Now catcher is the only position where it is acceptal for a guy to be defensivly minded, and that is only to a certain point.

I think the hitters have changed more than the pitchers. Guys always threw 95 mph. That is more of a talent than anything else. A fatfuck like Mike Stanton can hit the high 80’s so conditioning doesn’t have that much to do with velocity. A position player can go to the weight room, (or pharmacy) and add on 10 or 15 homeruns in a season. A pitcher can’t go into a weight room and add 10 miles onto his fastball.

The other change is in 1968(?) the mound was lowered. I think that has also helped the offense.

Plus there is still the unexplained mystery as too why more pitchers get hurt today than 50 years ago. Is it that pitchers always did get hurt, but the talent was as deluted so it wasn’t as noticable? Is it the mound being lowerd? Is it that it wasn’t as noticable because a guy would get hurt lose effectiveness, and bow out because there weren’t Tommy John and Shoulder surgeries weren’t performed? Has floradation affected their precious bodily flulids causing them to lose their essence? It has even changed in the last 20 years. I am pretty sure Maddux threw over 150 pitches a few times in his younger days. He seems to have had little ill effect. But now a young guy throws 118 pitches and that is a danger zone.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 7, 2008 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is it that pitchers always did get hurt, but the talent was as deluted so it wasn’t as noticable?

Seems like you could make the argument that talent is more diluted now than, say, 1947-1960. With more teams in the league now there are more pitchers in MLB who would have been in the minors before.

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on May 8, 2008 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One could also argue

that the player pool is a lot larger and the training regimens are better refined. The system has evolved more than the talent has been diluted.

And I don’t believe that there are more injuries than in the past. I just think the issue is watched more closely now since there is a great deal more money involved for the players.

It gets crazy on the road, and awful lonely. That's why I love pornography. This next song is all about my love of hardcore, barely legal pornography.

by Slyde on May 8, 2008 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly $$

but I think there are guys who would not have made a roster in pre expansion days pitching today. On the flip side there were a lot of guys who would not have been able to play today.

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on May 8, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Add into this the kids..

You need to consider the number of kids playing baseball too. How many kids were playing ball in that to draw from versus today with their fancy soccer and intercity basketball and all. That’s also approaching the baby boomer era. One could argue that the talent pool has been reduced just because less kids are playing. But I guess now you increase the talent pool over that era with all of the international players and worldwide scouting.

This could really be an interesting discussion!

-Do not play golf behind Dave Parker.

by snohio on May 8, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

I think the International factor is pretty huge. In 1960, 95% of all innings were pitched by players born in the U.S. In 2007, that number was down to 75%. Similarly, 90% of the plate appearances in 1960 were from U.S. born players, that number was just 71% last season. I bet if we did something more sophisticated like compare Win Share percentages we’d find an even larger shift.

It gets crazy on the road, and awful lonely. That's why I love pornography. This next song is all about my love of hardcore, barely legal pornography.

by Slyde on May 8, 2008 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if we did something more sophisticated

How would we do that? I hate to admit it but you guys are slowly converting me on some of these “new fangled” stats

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on May 8, 2008 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Dominican press

is pretty hyped on Volquez today.

A couple headlines:

Edinson Vólquez asombra a todos

Volquez astonishes everyone
>¡Vólquez estuvo fenomenal!, poncha 10 bateadores

Volquez was phenomenal, striking out 10 batters!

Both articles quoted him saying this:

En los dos últimos años no había lanzado como estoy lanzando ahora. Hay una razón detrás de cada lanzamiento que hago. Antes simplemente lanzaba.

The last two years I was not throwing like I am throwing now. There is a reason behind each pitch I throw. Before I was just throwing.

The pitcher/thrower distinction is a bit cliché but it might be appropriate here. Perhaps Soto has really helped him put it together mentally and he is changing speeds more and becoming much less predictable. Why isn’t Soto the pitching coach on this team?

As for the pitch count, I am okay with letting Volquez go around 120 every now and again, but yeah save it for a 1-0 game when the bullpen is toasted and no offday is in sight.

Tanzen!

by Verka Serduchka on May 8, 2008 9:36 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow,

that is one big lio de html

Tanzen!

by Verka Serduchka on May 8, 2008 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

disagree

that… looks… awesome!

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 8, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry

I think this is a non-issue.

No one would talk about Dusty and “blowing up young pitchers” if it wasn’t the freakin’ Flubs. “OOH, he ruint us! He destroyed the greatest pitchers of our generation!”

Bullcrap. Wood missed the entire ‘99 season to injury. His manager in ‘98? Jim Riggleman. Don Baylor was (mostly) the manager through ‘02. Baker didn’t show up until Wood had already pitched 691 innings.

Prior? His “perfect mechanics” are anything but. I saw a study (I can’t recall where) that pitchers with his “reverse W” motion (look at his arms in the picture above (why they don’t call it an “M” motion, I don’t know)) are much more prone to injury.

Further, if he so ruins young pitchers, why doesn’t anyone mention Victor Zambrano? Z was the same age as Prior, he pitched more innings than either Wood or Prior, and threw as many pitches. I’ll tell you why – they’re the freakin’ Flubs, and if it doesn’t fit their whiney story, they just ignore it.

It’s one game, after the bullpen pitched too many innings the past few days. Like I said, I’m not concerned.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 8, 2008 9:36 AM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Nice!

Norris Hopper's #1 fan!!!

by Zach K on May 8, 2008 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

did you mean carlos?

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 8, 2008 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

I’ll point out that the only two people to bring up Wood and Prior and Dusty’s past are you and justin, both of whom defended this move. Personally, I’ve stopped worrying about that reputation, but this specific instance really only bugs me because it was unnecessary.

As for the bullpen, it was the day before an off day and prior to yesterday Cordero had pitched 2 innings in May, Weathers 1IP, Mercker 1.1 IP and obviously Affeldt was available as well. I think it’s safe to say that those 4 relievers could handle 2+ IP between them in a 9-0 game.

I don’t have a problem with Volquez starting the 7th, but he threw 24 pitches that inning and Dusty never had anyone up in the bullpen. Typically in those situations managers yank the pitcher at the first sign of trouble, but Dusty appeared to have his mind made up that Volquez’s line would have 7 IP. Why? It was 9-0. That’s what I don’t like about this.

It gets crazy on the road, and awful lonely. That's why I love pornography. This next song is all about my love of hardcore, barely legal pornography.

by Slyde on May 8, 2008 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I worry because as you pointed out Slyde:

” but he threw 24 pitches that inning and Dusty never had anyone up in the bullpen.”
I too pointed out (feebly cause I couldn’t get the picture to print) that Prior and Woods certainly weren’t helped by Dusty.

Eeyore has more fun than a Reds fan.

by Madville on May 8, 2008 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh is that what that was?

:)

It gets crazy on the road, and awful lonely. That's why I love pornography. This next song is all about my love of hardcore, barely legal pornography.

by Slyde on May 8, 2008 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I cautiously defended Dusty

I do feel this is a cause for concern because there was such a large lead and Dusty had nobody ready to go behind him, and it would have been really easy for his pitch count to sky rocket to 125-130 pitches.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 8, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couple of things

1. JD implicitly brings up “Dusty’s past” simply by posting this thread.

2. I don’t want it to seem that I’m defending this specific move – the fact that Dusty didn’t have anyone throwing is troublesome, but in a “Is he paying attention to the situation” way than in a “He has ulterior motives” type of way. Look at that line – 10 baserunners in 7 innings; I wouldn’t automatically think of pulling him either unless I knew that his pitch count was getting up there. In this case, giving Dusty the benefit of the doubt might be worse than accusing him of something.

But it goes back to “Dusty loves veterans” – everyone was calling for EdE’s head, but Dusty stuck with him; he also gave Votto plenty of chances early, and once he proved himself, Hatte’s completely disappeared. Again – because things didn’t work out for the Flubs, he’s labelled a certain way, and everyone assumed he’d do the same things here.

And yea, Carlos, not Victor.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 8, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

can we blame Dusty for Victor's injury

the transative property of Zambrano?

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 8, 2008 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The fallacy in your your logic is

Wood already had a prior record of injuries. Yeah his injuires may have been inevitable no matter what happened but… Dusty knowing that he had a pitcher with bad mechanics, and past injuries, and who’s arm was thought to be a ticking time bomb, did nothing to try and protect him.

In Woods final 6 starts of 2003 begining on August 27th he threw 125 pitches in a 2-4 lose. On September 2nd 120 pitches in a 2-0 loss, on the 7th he threw 122 pitches in a 9-2 win, on the 12th he threw 114 pitches in a 7-6 win, 17th he threw 125 pitches in 2-0 win, and on the 23rd 122 pitches in a 6-0 win. In the 9-2 and 6-0 game he pitched 7 innings despite the Cubs getting a sizeable lead before he started the 7th. Keep in mind that the Cubs were also skipping Shawn Estes as much as possible during this time, so he had three starts in a row with the minimum 4 days rest.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 8, 2008 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're mixing pitchers

Wood had an injury history, but had also pitched 388 innings the 2 years before Dusty was there; there was no more concern about his arm by that point. He certainly wasn’t seen as a “ticking time bomb”.

It was Prior who had bad mechanics (though at the time, they were described as “perfect” – the problem wasn’t noticed until later).

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on May 8, 2008 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wood threw acrossed his body or something that made his arm a ticking time bomb

This is something that has been said about Wood for a while.

Besides the abuse Wood took from Riggleman, he was also abused in high schoo.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 8, 2008 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure this belongs here,

but check out some of Steve Phillips’ ideas on re-building the Reds here.

Griffey for Quentin? Deal. Maybe that’s why it’s “Former GM Steve Phillips”

"I've been rapping for about seventeen years, okay? I don't write my stuff anymore. I just kick it from my head. I can do that. No disrespect, but that's how I am."

by 3 Fast 3 Furious on May 8, 2008 10:16 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Brilliant

Why hasn’t Jocketty done this deal yet? Why would the White Sox want a 25-year old outfielder with a .955 OPS this season when they can have a 38-year OF/DH with a .695 OPS and a $16.5 million option for next year?

It gets crazy on the road, and awful lonely. That's why I love pornography. This next song is all about my love of hardcore, barely legal pornography.

by Slyde on May 8, 2008 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's as simple as moving all our big contracts

for other organizations’ best youngsters. Smack! It was so obvious! Also, Jared Burton = Joba Chamberlain. Who knew? And the Yankees wouldn’t trade Hughes for Johan Santana, but of course they’d move him for Burton and Affeldt (well, maybe throw in Arroyo too).

God, I hate Steve Phillips.

by Brendanukkah on May 8, 2008 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

why?

all of these deals are good for the reds. I think we should be listening to him.

stoopid brandon

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 8, 2008 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Tao of Steve.

I don't know how to paint a banana gourd to look like a Power Ranger.

by Fat Vegas Alan on May 8, 2008 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

grounded for life

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 8, 2008 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ha!

i got you!

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 8, 2008 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Former GM is right

Trade Griffey Then call up top prospect Jay Bruce, and put him in center for the next 10 years.

Does he know Griffey doesn’t play CF any more? You could call up Bruce today to play CF for the next 10 years without trading anyone.

Offer Jared Burton, who’s whiffing hitters in bunches, and Jeremy Affeldt for Phil Hughes.
HAHAHAHA! Would the Reds trade Homer Bailey for a Burton and an Affeldt? Please.

because Jeff Keppinger has proved he can play shortstop every day.
Has he? He’s proved he can play shortstop. But the everyday part is still in question. His numbers have been declining as the season progresses. He’s needed additional off days lately. Baker stated on yesterday’ pregame that he’s been losing weight and that his bat speed has been declining.

by rojosoto on May 8, 2008 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Steve is not right

“former” is right

by rojosoto on May 8, 2008 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd missed that about Keppinger (what Dusty said, not what Phillips said)

Good catch. That’s an interesting thing to keep track of. I didn’t remember him having any durability questions, but shortstop is a little more demanding of a position.

Also, Bruce is much more likely to play RF throughout his career, not center. I reiterate my distaste for Steve Phillips.

by Brendanukkah on May 8, 2008 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dusty can hear the weight loss

when Kepp walks in the dugout, he just sounds different.

It gets crazy on the road, and awful lonely. That's why I love pornography. This next song is all about my love of hardcore, barely legal pornography.

by Slyde on May 8, 2008 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not only that...

his solution to Keppinger playing short everyday and Gonzo coming off the DL is “trade Ryan Freel to the Dodgers”. Uhh… Steve? How does that help?

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on May 8, 2008 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just need to add

Sure, we can send Dunn to the Indians! And they will send us Cliff Lee, so far the best pitcher in the league. His ERA is lower than Volquez’s, if you can believe that. Plus, they would send us more players, like Franklin Gutierrez, or Aaron Laffey, or Jeremy Sowers. Sowers? You mean the guy that we drafted? The one that refused to come play for us? That Jeremy Sowers?

And does Steve get carried away with the accent marks, or does Sea Bass really spell his name with one over the “a” in his first name: Álex González.

by Brendanukkah on May 8, 2008 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know him

and he does

'cause something is happening here, but you don't know what it is.

by Man Mountain on May 8, 2008 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

overreaction

118 pitches is not going to kill a guy if he does it once in awhile. why not look at the other games before crucifying dusty? 95 pitches, 75, 112, 105, 104, 100. seems dusty is trying to keep him right around 100. he gets an extra day of rest between starts this time since they’re not skipping belisle or arroyo.

i’m more concerned about the six walks which led to the higher pitch count.

by Daedalus on May 8, 2008 11:34 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Shit, I missed a crucifixion?

AGAIN!

'cause something is happening here, but you don't know what it is.

by Man Mountain on May 8, 2008 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, two's enough not to look anxious.

But I think three days is kind of money.

'cause something is happening here, but you don't know what it is.

by Man Mountain on May 8, 2008 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who's job.

I wonder who is ultimately responsible for tracking pitch count and how that gets communicated. I am sure the manager does not track pitches for a game, probably not even an inning. Maybe Dick Pole didn’t let him know. Maybe Dusty was looking at the score a little differently and thinking EV had a 9 run lead so the bullpen didn’t need to get going until a run or three scored. Maybe Dusty did have 7 innings in mind and was not paying close attention to # of pitches. Maybe he was looking at the score a little differently thinking, he has a 9 run lead so the bullpen didn’t need to get going until a run or three scored.

I’m not trying to get him off of the hook, but just something to think about. I wonder if any of the media bothered to ask Dusty why EV went 7..

“YOU PEOPLE just like to complain! They win 9 to nothing, EV has 10Ks and the offense hits 7 HR. YOU PEOPLE just CAN’T be happy!”

(I only sort of mean that, more making fun of people who really say that.)

-Do not play golf behind Dave Parker.

by snohio on May 8, 2008 2:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If Dusty doesn't know the pitch count at GAB he is blind

with that giant board that gives the number of pitches, balls, strikes, and velocity.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 8, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yeah.

I forgot that they put that out there a couple years ago.. It wasn’t there the first and maybe second season of GABP. Maybe he doesn’t scoreboard watch. :)

-Do not play golf behind Dave Parker.

by snohio on May 8, 2008 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whatever.

Now we know the truth: You’ve never been to GABP and as we speak you’re probably blogging from a coffee shop just outside Fenway.

I don't know how to paint a banana gourd to look like a Power Ranger.

by Fat Vegas Alan on May 8, 2008 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah..

I really sent my twin brother down there for Game 2. He said he had a good time with the RR crew.

-Do not play golf behind Dave Parker.

by snohio on May 8, 2008 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

your twin brother is pretty cool...

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 8, 2008 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why would that make you happy?

Please Note: I may be totally full of shit.

by jch24 on May 8, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point

Rec ‘em! (In my best Rome voice)

Please Note: I may be totally full of shit.

by jch24 on May 8, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ew Jim Rome

Norris Hopper's #1 fan!!!

by Zach K on May 8, 2008 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"I don't need your comments"

I can run my own blog without your comments. This blog is all about ME. I know what you want to read about ME. It’s all about ME!!! -Rome, would he run a blog.

-Do not play golf behind Dave Parker.

by snohio on May 8, 2008 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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