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Is it time to trade Phillips and/or Harang?

Has Aaron Harang ever had higher value than he has right now?  What about Brandon Phillips?  Harang has pitched over 230 innings each of the past two years and is averaging 7 innings per start this year.  Phillips provides gold-glover caliber defense, power, and speed while playing at a traditionally weak offensive position.  Both are signed to reasonable long-term deals.  They are the perfect players to build a team around.  So why even consider trading them?

Let's look at the team as a whole.  The Reds have 4 solid young pitchers including Harang and  if Bailey is included in the group.  They have a core of young position players including Phillips, Votto, Bruce, EdE, and Kepp who could be the start to a good team.  But there are major issues with this team.

The way the Reds are going, you have to assume we'll see the mid-summer fire sale of Dunn, Griffey, Weathers, Hatteburg, Bako, and maybe others.  I'd guess those players as a whole will net 2-3 servicable players and a couple low-level, low-rated prospects.  So we're left with holes in the outfield, at catcher, and at a starter.  Could Phillips be turned into a decent outfielder and a starter?  Could Harang be turned into a ML-ready starter, a young prospect, and a couple decent position prospects? 

I don't think the Reds have the guts to make that type of move, but it's time to at least explore the possibilities.  This is a team that needs to chart a course and stick to it, or we'll just keep going in circles.

0 recs  |  Comment 28 comments

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Harang goes no where.

He is the only proven, consistently good pitcher we got.

Tanzen!

by Verka Serduchka on May 7, 2008 11:32 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I completely agree

especially with the consistent part. And that is exactly why we need to keep him. Not only is his production that of a number 1 guy, but he goes about his business is such a professional way that it is good for the young pitchers to see and try to emulate that.

Phillips, maybe. Harang, not a chance

Worse lately: Being a Bengals fan or Being a Reds fan?

by jmgard6 on May 7, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Selling high

You do that when you expect your player’s value to possibly fall off a cliff. Harang’s possible future makes trading him potentially another Frank Robinson sort of debacle. He is potentially the sort of player you hope a pitching prospect develops into when you make the sort of trades you propose.

Phillips, on the other hand, is the sort of player who could get over-valued by another team. Offensively, he’s a valuable part who is bad fit for this team as yet another low OBP hitter, but you can say that about a lot of the starting lineup.

by LooseCannon on May 7, 2008 11:59 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I am not opposed to trading Phillips

I am becoming more and more of a believer in blowing up the team right now and working like hell towards 2009

"There's more to being in the big leagues than just stats. Everyone is so stat-conscious." Dusty Baker

by Madville on May 7, 2008 12:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

well

there’s blowing the team up for 2009 and blowing the team up for 2010-11, and I fear that trading Phillips = blowing it up for 2010-11.

The Reds are like the USSR. A series of failing 5-year plans.

by bobestes on May 7, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe...depends on what gets blown up

And how Gonzo fits into the equation.

"There's more to being in the big leagues than just stats. Everyone is so stat-conscious." Dusty Baker

by Madville on May 7, 2008 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We should blow Gonzo up

I think he’d be down with it.

It gets crazy on the road, and awful lonely. That's why I love pornography. This next song is all about my love of hardcore, barely legal pornography.

by Slyde on May 7, 2008 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Before the season started,

I was in favor of trading Arroyo, possibly for a RH outfielder, but his play so far has completely shot that idea out of the sky.

Depending on the return, I would consider moving Phillips. I think his D is overrated, and he has a low OBP for as high as he bats in the order.

by rojosoto on May 7, 2008 2:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Sure

I’m just saying if there are other teams who value him higher than the Reds do, then it would make sense to consider trade offers at the higher value.

by rojosoto on May 7, 2008 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

trading Harang? common...

Phillips, on the other hand, could be very intriguing. he is exactly the kind of guy you sell high. his flashy glove and 30-30 status (not to mention his charisma) make him the kind of guy that some GMs would over-value. but who takes over at 2B? its obvious that Keppinger would be that guy, but i can see some folks crying that that would be a downgrade. here are their career OPS stats going all the way back to college:

Keppinger: ~.800 OPS
Phillips: ~.750 OPS

Kepp has clearly been a better hitter, taking their entire professional careers in account. of course, Phillips has a more established major league record, as 37% of his pro ABs have been in the majors while only 16% of Kepp’s have been in the majors. Phillips may have the Gold Glove reputation (and here is where my stats acumen falters, as i dont know enough about defensive metrics to back this up) but would anyone really consider Kepp a liability at 2B? he’s handling SS just fine. all in all, i think it is more than fair to say that Kepp is every bit the ball player that BP is, and at a terrificly discounted price. but i seriously doubt most GMs see it that way. this is precisely the kind of market perception you have to exploit. i think it would have been best to trade BP this winter and let someone else extend him, but perhaps he can keep his numbers up enough to do it this July or in the winter. if all the right cards turn up, Chris Valaika will tear up his promotion to AA and could be ready to step into the bigs next spring, or at least when Gonzo is gone.

dont get me wrong though, i have absolutely no problems keeping BP, as long as he doesnt pitch a hissy fit when he is moved down in the order. he is signed to a reasonable contract and is a nice face for the franchise (im looking forward to my BP 30-30 bobblehead on May 17). truth be told though, i have serious doubts Walt would listen to a single word of this.

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 7, 2008 4:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

So, who are the trade partners?

For Phillips, that is. No way I trade Harang. This organization has struggled to find No. 3 starters for years. When you get a No. 2 or a No. 1, you keep him unless something ridiculous is offered.

As for Phillips, I vote for keeping him, too, but if the Reds deal him, who needs a 2B? At present, it appears the following teams:

San Francisco
Chicago White Sox
Cleveland
Colorado

Put Toronto, the Dodgers, Washington and Kansas City in the “maybe” pile.

If I deal Phillips to the Giants for prospects, I want Tim Alderson or Madison Bumgarner, a pair of terrific young pitchers. I’d love to land Nick Noonan, a 2B who I think will be a stud in a few years.

If I deal with the White Sox, and with Uribe, Ramirez and Richar around I’m not so sure they belong on the list, I’d require something such as Carlos Quentin. Chicago’s minor league system is as bare as any in the game.

Cleveland probably would offer Jeff Stevens back for Phillips, huh? I’d look for a package of prospects headed by LHP Chuck Lofgren.

Colorado would have to offer Franklin Morales and Chris Ianetta maybe.

It’s all just off the top of my head tinkering around, for what that’s worth. I’d have to get more in depth to feel comfortable with what I would ask for Phillips.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on May 7, 2008 5:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i don't understand the notion that it is time to blow up and rebuild

There are only two major trading chips that this team has Griffey and Dunn. I only say Dunn because if they can get a nice midseason hull from a team needing a power hitter, lets say the Yankees (completely theoritcal, I don’t even know if they have a need in the outfield/DH, but they seem to be down on Phil Hughes right now, and if Hank Steinbrenner fires Cashman who knows what will happen.) But if it does not appear likely that Dunn will resign mightaswell get some top prospects from a team in need.

But a team with a core of young players and/or players who are under control for the next few eyars including, Bruce, Cueto, Volquez, Bailey, Votto, EdE, Phillips, Kepp, Harang, Bray, Roenickie, Viola, etc, is a team that has been rebuilt and is just waiting to blossom. It is possible that Arroyo will be the worst pitcher in the rotation next year, and I realize that isn’t saying much with his early work, but he isn’t this bad. He doens’t appear to have an arm injury. He went through a rough patch last year, but put up a solid ERA in the low 4’s, so for the first time in a long time the starting rotation appears to be stable.

The only thing this team will need for next year is an outfielder or two, and a catcher. With the offense that Bruce, Phillips, Kepp, Votto, and EdE put up, they can probably take on a more defensive minded outfielder, as long as he isn’t an automatic out. Plus some of the young pitching talent, maybe Thompson if he continues to pitch well, could be traded for an outfielder in the offseason.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 7, 2008 5:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Grif is not a major trading chip.

I just want the roster blown up
3 catchers
2 LH batting 1st basemen
Corey Patterson
Josh Fogg
meanwhile J. Bruce is languishing in AAA
I don’t know if Bailey will make it or not but now is a really good time to check him out.
We need a big RH bat and a catcher
Where you gonna get him? not from AAA
Maybe BP and a prospect or 2 could reel someone in towards the end of May or middle June. As ridiculous as it may sound to some, I think that BP is playing the best ball now that he’ll ever play. Plus some team out there might need a great shortstop..because OBVIOUSLY The Reds don’t.

Eyore has more fun than a Reds fan.

by Madville on May 7, 2008 6:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

With all the Fogg to Colorado rumors

going around, how about packaging him with Phillips for Juan Castro?

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on May 7, 2008 6:48 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

now youre just being crazy.

Phillips by himself is worth more than Castro. youre just being crazy. youre a crazy turtle.

If you don't get a good-night kiss, you get Kafka dreams.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 7, 2008 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We could use a RH hitter with some clout:


Fidel does his best David Lee batting stance imitation

Eyore has more fun than a Reds fan.

by Madville on May 7, 2008 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fidel was a lefty

and a pitcher.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 8, 2008 1:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Someone took down my previous photo of Fidel at the bat


As you can see he is a BIG RH hitter

Eeyore has more fun than a Reds fan.

by Madville on May 8, 2008 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My doctor was Fidel's doctor

many years ago before escaping Cuba for the U.S. He’s Dr. Jose Ricard and is the longtime team doctor for Marshall University football. Dr. Ricard is a close friend of Tony Perez and is a heck of a good guy.

Jose fought with the Batista army, yet Fidel trusted him enough to make him his personal physician. Jose’s escape story is fascinating. Jose was a heck of a shortstop during his day. He tells me Fidel was very overrated as a ballplayer.

You probably don’t give a hoot, but heck, it’s an off day.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on May 8, 2008 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...

what do you expect out of a guy who plays in combat boots?

"I never should have given up the animation rights."

by BobbyO on May 8, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not to mention fatigues

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on May 8, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty cool stuff

You should write a weekly column!!

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on May 8, 2008 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why?

Because they are good? A trade for trade’s sake is foolish, especially when you are unloading some of the best players on your roster. And seeing how good starting pitching is such a rare commodity in this league (we could not even trade Dunn last year for a starting pitcher of Harang’s skill level), and that we still hope to have a winning season someday, hopefully, it makes even less sense (especially when you consider that no conceivable trade would give us a value of equal return for a top-of-the-line middle infielder or starting pitcher). You will just end up gutting the remainder of the team, dispiriting the fan base, and giving anyone a convenient excuse not to watch the games.

I am not opposed to trades, per se, but there must be something of equal value (financial and in terms of talent) that you receive in return. It would have to be one heckuva deal for me to approve of a trade like this, particularly Harang.

by tonywf on May 8, 2008 10:53 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I really don't see a reason to blow up this team

with the injection from young pitching and the addition of some youth in the field (Votto, Bruce) they really aren’t that far away.

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on May 8, 2008 3:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

dont waste your time typing

this is the last thing i wouuld want to see happen

maybe (in teh off season)i would consider phillips but no way on god’s green earth would i trade harang

by cmoredlegs on May 8, 2008 4:13 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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