Venting Thread

by JD Arney on May 3, 2008 10:50 PM EDT Comment 108 comments

Annoy_medium

What do you like least about the team this year?

As Krivsky tore down the offense to build the pitching, I've said all along that it's great if that works, but if it doesn't then I'd actually prefer to watch the Reds lose 9-7 than to watch them lose 3-1. They're both frustrating, but the latter much more so. And low scoring losses are just boring.

It's hard finding reasons to watch a team that lately seems hard pressed to put together more than 3-4 hits.

Two games, one run, eight hits, against a pretty good pitcher in Tim Hudson, and a not at all good pitcher in Jo-Jo Reyes. It's boring.

Now your turn. Plenty to choose from, what's irritating you the most so far this season?

0 recs | Comment 108 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Happiness

“I’d actually prefer to watch the Reds lose 9-7 than to watch them lose 3-1.”

Well then I guess you’ve been really happy the last 8 years.

Some people say you win with pitching and defense.

by Mutaman on May 3, 2008 11:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

You pretty clearly willfully missed my point there.

Obviously (except apparently to you) I’d prefer they win above all else, but yeah if they’re going to lose I’d rather they do it with a fun to watch offense.

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. --Oscar Wilde

by JD Arney on May 3, 2008 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

pretty clearly willfully

You’re right- I pretty clearly willfully missed your point. My point- better we have decent pitching and defense and have to build the offense than vice versa.

by Mutaman on May 4, 2008 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

whats the difference

either way you’re behind, and you lose. Would you rather be losing 3-1 than 9-7? Is that your point?

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 4, 2008 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Its worse than you think...

"I’d actually prefer to watch the Reds lose 9-7 than to watch them lose 3-1."

We’re losing 9 -1, not 9-7 , not 3-1, but 9 to freaking one.

Thats 63-7 in football terms.

Is it time to blow this team up ??

AKA redsfan68 Nobody listens to Andrew

by nlt-andrew68 on May 3, 2008 11:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

what do you blow up

i feel like this is more a team going through growing pains, Bruce, Bailey, Cueto, Valquez, Votto, Phillips, EdE, are all under 27, add in an extended Adam Dunn, plus Harang will be around for a while, and so will Corderro, plus there are all the young relief arms coming up like Viola, Roselles, Bray, and i feel like i have forgotten some names, but this team is a year or two away, if they find a decent catcher in the near future, and the other oddities of this roster pass this team will be good. You can’t really blow up a youth movement.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 3, 2008 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the only thing this team can really do

is to sell off or release the spare parts, Hetteberg, Weathers, Valentine, Patterson, Affedelt, Freel, Hopper. I would personally trade Hatteberg for a low level prospect, and replace him with Phillips, trade Weathers (some team is always willing to trade something, probably not much but something, for a medicore to solid reliever) and replace him with one of the young relief pitchers, same with Affedlt, I would release Patterson and replace him with Bruce, and Fropper can go and be replaced by somebody and Dickerson.

I don’t know if you can call that blowing this team up. Dickerson could have put up Patterson like numbers, good defense, poor offense but some power, but at 1/10th of the cost (somebody really needs to do cost anyalsis) Bruce can start in CF right now, Hatteberg is rotting away on the bench, Affedlt might have decent value he is a solid lefty relief pitcher, but again unless you are Wayne Krivsky most GM’s won’t give up too much for a releif pitcher who isn’t named Billy Wagner, Mariano Riveria, or Palpelbon.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 4, 2008 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it seems more frustrating

because they’re still not winning.

The grass is always greener. It doesn’t matter if they lose 9-7 or 1-0… we don’t want them to lose.

Until they start finding ways to win, we’re just going to keep wishing for what we don’t have…

by iamwallaman on May 3, 2008 11:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Dusty Baker.

He’s what I like least about this team. The problem is, I’m not really sure it’s all his fault, or even mostly his fault. But I remember how pissed I was when he was first hired, and all offseason I warmed a bit to him, to where I’m now a bit surprised we’re losing, and losing so heartlessly. But with how the team is playing, I’m going back to my initial knee-jerk dislike of him and everything he does.

I suppose there’s still ample time for me to change my mind back again. There’s also ample time for me to want to jump off a bridge because of how we’re playing this year.

"Just remember, it's not a lie if you believe it." - George Costanza

by beasleymachine on May 3, 2008 11:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

center field

as has been voiced this week, i miss joshie. with dunn and jr. slumping, this is far and away the worst outfield we’ve had in years, and it’s led by the putrid center fielders. I want my jay bruce, damn it. Dunn will bounce back, as I would think Jr. will, but fropperson will never give us shit. i dont even want to see those guys play. they’re annoying little shits.

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 3, 2008 11:38 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

What bothers me the most: now we have no excuse

From 1996-2007 we went through a series of managers who all either had no previous major league managing experience or had some experience but had had never managed a playoff team.

So at the end of the season, at least I could say, “Ok, we lost so many games this year maybe now the Reds will get serious and hire a real manager.”

But now we have a proven winner at manager and a decent payroll and we still stink on ice.

Where have you gone, Johnny Vander Meer?

by jgoodfri on May 4, 2008 12:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i don't see why that matters

while Ray Knight, Bob Boone, Dave Miley, and Jerry Narron were not the best, it wasn’t there fault that this team had no starting pitching (Well i guess Knight had Smiley, Burba, Pourtugal, so it was kind of solid). I am more bother by the fact this team has gotten decent starting pitching and still loses.

You know who prooved Dusty Baker? Barry Bonds, Jeff Kent, Jason Schmidt, Rob Nenn, Kerry Wood, Mark Prior, Carlos Zambrano, etc. He has had club house problems in the passed, Bonds and Jeff Kent had a screaming match in the dugout, Kent Mercker called Steve Stone in the middle of a game to complain about a comment he made, and also screamed at Steve Stone on the team charter. Dusty Baker should have put a stop to that and told Mercker and the press that what Steve Stone says doesn’t matter, what is happening on the field is what matters. Plus Ryan Freel says there are communication problems, he thought Jay Bruce had a long history of injuries, and doesn’t think Bill Bray is durable, because he missed a lot of last year with a broken finger, rehabbing and having a little shoudler soreness, shutting it down, starting over again, and then just pitcing in AAA because the Reds had so many better options in Cincinnati. Plus he rests Adam Dunn like he is in his late 30s not his late 20s, and says that he has to do what he can to keep veterans like Dunn and Griffey fresh throughout the season.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 4, 2008 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I mean some of the shit Dusty says and does is "Bob Boone-esque"

but he had the 2003 Cubs, and lots of superstars to pad his resume, not the Royals and 2001-2003 Reds.

Seriosly base cloggers, using Bill Bray in the 3rd inning. I almost want to give Narron his job back.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 4, 2008 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My biggest gripe with this team

comes down to roster construction. This is the most poorly put together team I’ve ever seen, even by Reds standards. Some examples (going across the diamond):

1. First base: Votto is the guy. He’s proven that he can contribute, he can play everyday, he can cut it on defense. Why have Hatteberg on the team? He’s also left-handed, and all he’s doing is taking ABs from Joey.

2. Shortstop: This was recently addressed with Castro getting cut, but there’s no definitive answer as to what happens at this position when Gonzo gets back, and that scares the hell out of me. Either he’s going to sit the bench (not likely), or take ABs away from Keppinger, or worse, EdE.

3. Center field: Oh boy. Patterson, Hairston, Freel, Hopper, etc. WIth how much money they have tied up in these guys, they don’t have anyone there that can play everyday and get on base to contribute to the offense. Hairston is fine as a utility guy, especially while he’s got the hot bat, and Hopper is a serviceable 5th OF, but none of these guys should be starting for a major league team. Throw into that the money we owe Freel, who is a decent player for an effort guy, but certainly not someone Dusty favors, so he’s not gonna play as much as he’s getting paid to. Why these three exist on this roster together is bewildering. Which leads us to…

4. Corey Patterson: This guy gets his own category. I put this one on Dusty, because it was obviously his idea to bring him in here, but to give him 3 million is preposterous, so this is partly Wayne’s fault too. And, what’s worse is that Dusty keeps playing him and batting him leadoff to justify his mistake. The fact that he’s the starting CF for my favorite baseball team infuriates me, especially when you take into account that he’s going to see more ABs than anyone else on the team if he’s playing everyday. He shouldn’t be batting leadoff, which leads me to my next point…

5. A “leadoff hitter”: There isn’t a true “leadoff” type hitter on the roster, and I find that to be a glaring weakness that should be addressed. Sure, there are guys who can fill the role and do okay, but there isn’t a high OBP guy who can steal bases with consistency. The base stealing thing wouldn’t be a big deal, normally, but with Dusty managing this team, the leadoff hitter NEEDS to be fast, because we all know Dusty will try to “manufacture runs” with whoever they put there. The best we can do right now, is Freel in the CF slot, unless someone can come up with a better idea. Speaking of the outfield:

6. Jay Bruce: He isn’t here. That’s fine, but management has to be aware that sometime this season, he will be here, and when he gets here, where is he going to play? Center field? Not with Corey P. Centerfield still on the team. He needs to play everyday, and with Dusty’s track record with speedy no-hit centerfielders, it’s going to have to be in a corner outfield spot, of which none are currently available. There’s clearly an odd man out here, and nobody knows who it is, management included. And furthermore, plugging Jay into center would be a serviceable solution, yes, but it adds another problem to the mix…

7. Too many left handed bats: Dunn, Griffey, Votto, Bruce. That’s four LH power bats that should be playing in this lineup everyday. How do you bat them? How does this team hit lefties? Granted, this isn’t as big of a problem as some of the others, but still, poor roster construction.

8. Catchers: Why are there three catchers on this team? Especially when all of them are mediocre at best! None of these three guys can hit over .250, and none of them are exceptional defensively. The best we have out of the lot at this point is Bako, because he calls a good game and is hitting, but him and Ross are the same player. Not a lot of depth if you ask me. And as far as having a change of pace guy in Javy, he’s not living up to that this season. He isn’t hitting a lick. Time for one of these guys to go.

And that’s just the position players!

What my point is, is that Jocketty has a pretty daunting task on his hands, because Krivsky left this roster in complete shambles. There’s no real direction that this team is building around, and that’s why Krivsky was fired. You have BP signed to a long-term deal, great. He’s your guy. Harang and Arroyo are locked up, and you trade for Volquez and have Cueto and Bailey cheap. That’s your rotation, great job. THEN GET RID OF JOSH FOGG. And as far as position players go, you have BP, and you have Votto, EE, and Bruce. That’s a pretty solid foundation of guys to build around. This is the first time I’ve ever said this, but maybe it’s time to part ways with Junior or Dunn. One of those guys is gone, and Jocketty starts rebuilding the roster smartly, and this team can contend. But until then, we’ve got this team to watch and root for and bitch about, every day, for the entire summer of ‘08.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on May 4, 2008 1:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

im hoping walt

peels away those centerfielders, one by one, getting mediocre prospects in return. Then bring up Bruce to play center. If you’re not re-signing Dunn, then trade him at the break for a couple A outfield prospects. Move Junior at the break for Clement if you can, and if not then get the best posible package from atlanta or seattle. trade bronson. trade hatteberg. In the offseason sign the best right-handed outfielder available, which could lock up 5 or 6 years of theoretical Bruce-prospect-rightyFAsigning in the outfield. You’ve got another five years of Votto at first. three years of edwin, three years of harang, four years of phillips, five more years each of volquez, cueto, and bailey. Our 1-4 starters are locked down, as is our infield, as would be our outfield in my hypothetical scenario. I hate that we have a lot of uncertainty in the outfield for the first time, but our outfielders aren’t producing right now anyway.

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 4, 2008 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think this is a reasonable plan.

It gets crazy on the road, and awful lonely. That's why I love pornography. This next song is all about my love of hardcore, barely legal pornography.

by Slyde on May 4, 2008 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm kind of down with this right now.

by Brendanukkah on May 4, 2008 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Apparently...

...they told Jay Bruce to work on his baserunning. He’s got 7 SB so far. Maybe he’ll be the leadoff guy, when he’s called up.

I think when he’s called up, Dusty will use him. He’s used Votto over Hatteberg.

Patterson, I just don’t get. Okay, he was Jay Bruce back in 2000. That was eight years ago.

I don’t hold his salary against Krivsky. If he was told to get sign him no matter what, well, I guess his hands were tied. Patterson is a good baserunner, and I guess there’s hope he’ll carry his weight at the plate. But he’s not good on defense. If you look at his BP “Rate,” he sucks on defense. In 2004, the year he was supposedly robbed of a Gold Glove, his Rate 2 was 91. That’s bad. Average is 100, and his average Rate 2 in CF is 93. In comparison, Freel’s average Rate 2 in CF is 101 – better than average. Hairston’s average Rate 2 is 102.

Yeah, I know, defensive stats are problematic. But I like BP’s rate (or rate 2, adjusted for league difficulty). I really don’t understand why Patterson has such a good reputation on defense, because I don’t see it, either in the stats or on the field.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 4, 2008 7:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Growing weary of Dunn and Junior

I’m starting to have a similar reaction. I looked at the standings in the paper today, and realized that we have the second-worst record in baseball, ahead of only the Rockies. The losing gets wearisome. Now, I’m a Dunn fan. I would be happy to see him stay on the team. But as the naysayers have pointed out, we haven’t won a whole lot while he’s been here. Clearly all that losing is not his fault, but I think i’ts prudent to start thinking in terms of what we could get for him. How much longer is he a player that you build around? Is this slow start a foreshadowing of his career in the years to come? If we sign him to an extension, I would think the deal would be for at least 4 or 5 years. Do we want him around that long? His production has been tremendous, but his dropoff could be similarly breathtaking. I’m not sure what we could reasonably expect to gte back for him, but we’ve lost with Dunn for a long time. I think it’s a good time to think about losing with someone else.

Oh, and Griffey. This should be his last year as a Red. Move him if you can at the deadline, or pay him his $4M after the season, wish him the best, and say thanks for the memories. What he adds just isn’t worth $16.5M.

by Brendanukkah on May 4, 2008 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dumb question

Can Keppinger play OF?

by bobestes on May 4, 2008 3:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

anybody can!

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 4, 2008 3:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i wanted to respond quickly to let you know that another person is around at 3:07

...

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 4, 2008 3:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and to answer your question,

keppinger has played 5 games in the outfield in the bigs

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 4, 2008 3:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He played corner OFer for the Bats

I don’t think he has the range for CF.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 4, 2008 6:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

MST

Mountain time zone, brother. it’s 1:09 here. In fact, I’m an earlybird for leaving the bar early.

by bobestes on May 4, 2008 3:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

my roommate just called to invite me out to a bar

and it’s EST here buddy. Derby celebrations and whatnot

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 4, 2008 3:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've always found the regional-ness of some things interesting

I’m from the Indianapolis area, and the derby barely gets mentioned up here, I mean, we’re aware of it, but we don’t have parties, or really ever know anything about it. We have the 500 up here, and it’s the biggest deal for us, but I’ll bet a lot of people outside of the area don’t give a crap about it. And the events are only a hundred some miles apart. I don’t really know where I’m going with this. Other than, I hope everybody got drunk tonight, because I did.

"Just remember, it's not a lie if you believe it." - George Costanza

by beasleymachine on May 4, 2008 3:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

seems like

along with some right-handed bat, the reds could also use a left-handed starter to break up the string of righties they send out there all the time.

by cokane on May 4, 2008 8:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Don't worry

when Hopper comes back the offense will get better…

Norris Hopper's #1 fan!!!

by Zach K on May 4, 2008 8:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

oh 2008 Reds, how do i hate thee?

let me count the ways…

BK got it just about right. this roster is a historic mess. i get the feeling that we are like the smelly kid in class. all the other teams snicker about us when we arent around because we are such a mess. Hatteberg is great, but he should have been traded last summer when he was probably the “best available” 1B (or should have been available). we could have sold him at peak value. Fropper and Hairston are all the same. I personally dont mind having two guys like Freel and Hairston on the bench, since they both can do just about everything defensively, as long as somebody else can hit for some power. but Hopper clearly should be at AAA or on some other team right now. i can imagine he could have been traded this winter for a bit of something. anything. Valentin is still on this team? i said it before and i’ll say it again, i think his place on this roster is pretty safe. his reputation is as a great PH, which is clearly dubious, will carry him for a while. but OMG COREY PATTERSON!! im okay having Bruce and Bailey down on the farm for the first month. see if this team gets out to a hot start and maybe we can contend. but we didnt. so lets go total youth movement.

the Jr/Dunn sitch worries me. i want to keep Dunn around because he has been the best bat on this team since Jose Guillen had that one great year. but will he take a 4 year deal? will we even offer that? Jr should be dealt, and im confident that something will happen this summer if we are still playing like this.

we obviously need another strong RH bat. EE is not a premiere level hitter, and he shouldnt have to be. what he does is good enough. BP needs to move the fuck off the cleanup spot. Jesus Christ…i think this is a close second to the Patterson situation on my list of 95 Theses. he is not a cleanup hitter. he should not hit any higher than 5. ever. so if we want another RH bat, and the outfield is the obvious place, who can get this winter? just glancing at the 2009 FA list over at traderumors (i’ll put the link at the end of my post if you want to gander yourself), i cant see too many decent options. Pat Burrell, Jason Michaels, Bobby Abreu, Casey Blake, Milton Bradley. Burrell would never play in Cincy, and he’s really just a RH Adam Dunn, so people would hate him. he cant handle RF anyway. Michaels, Blake, and Bradley are nothing but stop-gaps. Abreu? i would be alright with him, but we would have to grossly overpay for the waning years of his career, so no way. the one name that i can really see being any kind of reasonable answer on the FA market is Juan Rivera. he’ll be 30 and he has been buried his entire career, save 2006 when he got into 124 games and put up a 126 OPS+. im not enamored with that solution, so perhaps we could find one in trade. i dont know. maybe Kepp can play RF.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/12/2009-mlb-free-a.html

Abraham Lincoln said that if you're a racist, I will invade you with the north.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 4, 2008 10:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

the Jr/Dunn sitch worries me

Yes. To me, this is the biggest hobble on the team right now. If these guys were lighting it up, all the other problems we’re having would be smaller in magnitude, seemingly. If we only lost half as many games, all these other problems wouldn’t be so huge. I feel a tad guilty about just wanting to be done with both of them. I know Dunn will not slump all year. And I know Jr. will produce the usual amount of runs eventually. But I get sick of seeing the yearly Dunn slump. It’s the most exasperating thing to me. We know he’ll eventually turn it on and pound so many runs across the plate that his year end stats will look great as always, but damn I hate waiting for it.

Everyone says 09’? I’m not so sure anymore.

He had alot to say.
He had alot of nothing to say.
We'll miss him.

by sukr on May 4, 2008 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I vote 'no' on Abreu

One, he’s not a righty. He bats lefty.

Two, he’ll be the first to admit he didn’t deserve that Gold Glove. His defense in RF is below average, and has been since 2004. He’s so scared of the wall it’s not even funny. He won’t dive, either.

When the Yankees first acquired Abreu, a Phillies fan told me to get ready to watch him shy away from the wall, let balls drop in in front of him, and pitch a fit if asked to play anywhere but RF or bat anywhere but third. I thought it was sour grapes. It turned out to be pretty accurate. :-P

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 4, 2008 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah i dont want him either, i was just listing possible dudes.

and he’s a switchie, so thats why i included him.

Abraham Lincoln said that if you're a racist, I will invade you with the north.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 4, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've never seen him switch-hit

He bats from the left side of the plate no matter who is on the mound. Jorge Posada and Melky Cabrera are our only switch-hitters that I know of.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 4, 2008 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

really? i dont know the yanks like you do (obviously)

i was just going on what B-Ref said. they say he’s a switchie. guess they lied.

Abraham Lincoln said that if you're a racist, I will invade you with the north.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 4, 2008 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Huh?

BR says he bats left, throw right.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 4, 2008 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

whatchu talkin bout willis?

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 4, 2008 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well sheeeeeee-it

my bad. thats awful stupid of me.

Abraham Lincoln said that if you're a racist, I will invade you with the north.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 5, 2008 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think we should free Matt Murton

by Red Menace on May 4, 2008 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm most annoyed by the black bill on the away caps

Get rid of that, and I’m happy.

(“that’s racist”)

'cause something is happening here, but you don't know what it is.

by Man Mountain on May 4, 2008 10:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i havent seen too many away games yet.

they put this guy on the hats? neat-o!!

now THAT is racist.

Abraham Lincoln said that if you're a racist, I will invade you with the north.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 4, 2008 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That reminds me

Next time any of you are in DC, give me a call and I will take you to Ben’s Chili Bowl. Best restaurant in DC, and Bill Cosby is the only one who gets served for free.

by Brendanukkah on May 4, 2008 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bill Cosby,

You just got served.

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 4, 2008 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I used to love me some Ben's Chili Bowl after a night in A-Morg

by Brian B on May 4, 2008 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What is wrong with this team?

Corey Patterson- The guy is not a Major League caliber outfielder… Or hitter…

Joey Votto needs to be a bit more patient… so that we can afford to go ahead and get rid of Hatteberg…

Phillips needs to make sure he’s not trying to homer every at-bat…

Arroyo needs some run support

The bullpen needs to be virtually perfect…

People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.

by crolfer on May 4, 2008 3:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

As much as I hate to say this

We’re not winning because Griffey and Dunn aren’t hitting. That’s it. Phillips is trying to do too much and Patterson sucks, but the guys we count on aren’t doing jack. They should be at least threatening to opposing pitchers, but they aren’t.

by Brian B on May 4, 2008 5:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

coffey just gave up the game-winning hit for the bats

louisville loses to richmond 5-4 in 11.

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 4, 2008 5:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

JD, I think the Reds lost just for you today.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 4, 2008 5:52 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

And I did not find it more fun

I like pitcher’s duels, actually. You at least have the feeling that one lucky hit could change the game.

If your pitching sucks, you’re freakin’ doomed.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 4, 2008 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

interesting that so many are voicing frustrations about Dunn and Griffey...

Do you all still feel like we shouldn’t have moved at least dunn at the deadline last year?

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 4, 2008 6:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i dont think a lot of people were saying that

i was consigned to the fact. it’s not a matter of whether you should trade the players; it’s the return. i think a lot of us were worried that wayne would manage to fuck up the trade.

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 4, 2008 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

iirc

I was hammered for saying the reds should’ve traded dunn. My point was we weren’t going to win last year or this, and that he wasn’t going to be resigned so we should trade him while we could.

as an answer to this question, my biggest complaint with this team is that we are giving too much time to players that aren’t part of the future of the team. It was my dream scenario that we hire Joe Girardi and play all of our youngsters. Sure we wouldn’t have been very good this year, but at least they would be getting experience. clearly, we should play dunn for the rest of the season, but we should send griffey on his way to the first team that will take him (and he’ll agree to go to). I know the reds want to see him hit 600 in cincinnati, but does it really matter?

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 4, 2008 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes 600 matters

not for wins or for the future, but for the $$$. getting some asses in the seats is good for this team, unquestionably. even if they wear Cubs hats, and there will be plenty this week, they spend the money. i know im being a cold economist here, but more cash is always a good thing. hopefully we can move him in July for something worth having. we’ll see.

Abraham Lincoln said that if you're a racist, I will invade you with the north.

by Charlie Scrabbles on May 4, 2008 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

like a high def plasma tv

i’d love to get me one of those it could be that I have a 14 inch TV VCR combo that has mono sound.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 4, 2008 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

how much money is it making them?

their attendance is still laughable

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 4, 2008 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I received similar 'boos' for dissing Jr.- I think he should be ASAP

I really don’t even care that much about #600. Jr.’s going in the HOF and he’s agreat player (was, that is) BUT what are you doing for US – sep. NOW…(besides he’ll go in to the HOF, rightfully, as a Mariner).

In general what’s wrong w/this team is pretty well laid out on this entire post.

"There's more to being in the big leagues than just stats. Everyone is so stat-conscious." Dusty Baker

by Madville on May 4, 2008 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

trading Dunn

I’m of the belief that if you go into a discussion believing that you have to trade such-and-such player, you’ve set yourself up to lose the deal. I doubt most GMs think about who they should trade. I think Jocketty should be open to shopping Dunn (all players should be available), but don’t do it just because you think you need to get rid of a player. Get the deal that helps the team the best. If that means trading Dunn, so be it.

Personally, I want them to trade Harang. The Reds having won shit since they traded for him and the pitching has been terrible pretty much every year that he’s been in the rotation.

It gets crazy on the road, and awful lonely. That's why I love pornography. This next song is all about my love of hardcore, barely legal pornography.

by Slyde on May 4, 2008 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i know you aren't being serious..

but harang and dunn are not a reasonable comparison…

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 4, 2008 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Harang has been our best pitcher of this decade

and DUnn has been our best hitter of this decade.

They have been very good, but they aren’t the ultimate elite in the game.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 4, 2008 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

actually...

harang is among the elite…

but their contract situations are vastly different.

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 4, 2008 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not really

see boobs post below. Harang’s contract situation is comparable to Dunn’s in 2006, and people have been blaming Dunn for the Reds problems since well before then.

And yes, I have not interest in trading Harang.

It gets crazy on the road, and awful lonely. That's why I love pornography. This next song is all about my love of hardcore, barely legal pornography.

by Slyde on May 5, 2008 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not the point...

i was saying trade him last year not 2006

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 5, 2008 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and I wasn't picking on you when I brought up Harang

I know you don’t blame Dunn for the Reds losing. Those are the people that I was mocking.

It gets crazy on the road, and awful lonely. That's why I love pornography. This next song is all about my love of hardcore, barely legal pornography.

by Slyde on May 5, 2008 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ok got ya...

i think it’s terrible though that krivsky said last week that the reds and dunn have had zero communication about an extension…

when the hamilton trade was made, i assumed that meant that they were going to extend dunn. i guess management was just more enamored with norris hopper than i was.

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 5, 2008 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

athough, now that i think about it, maybe dunn and harang are comparable

they both usually lead the league in strikeouts :-)

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 4, 2008 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

harang will make $11 million next year and $12.5 million in 2010

dunn made $7.5 million and $10.5 million the past two years, when everyone was calling for his head. I’d say they’re very comparable.

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 4, 2008 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i'd say you are wrong

it was pretty clear last year that dunn was not going to be part of the long term plans of the reds…

i would venture to guess that the reds would like to keep harang around past his current contract

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 5, 2008 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

what difference does that make?

you said they’re different cases because of their contracts. Harang’s contract situation now is pretty much exactly the same as Dunn’s two years ago. Anyway, they did have some kinds of plans to keep him around, because they exercised their option on him this year

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 5, 2008 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think they are exactly comparable

Blaming the best pitcher on the team for the fact the remainder of the staff is terrible is no different than blaming the best hitter on the team for the fact that the team keeps losing every year. Yes, Harang is better at what he does than Dunn, but that’s not my point.

It gets crazy on the road, and awful lonely. That's why I love pornography. This next song is all about my love of hardcore, barely legal pornography.

by Slyde on May 5, 2008 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No....

.....there is no way were getting anything in return for Griffey, and anyone who wants to give up 40 homers/100 walks/100 runs/.900 OPS per year has no business deciding who should play (and who, by the way, you still would not have received a quality starting pitcher for).

by tonywf on May 5, 2008 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not getting anything in return?

he’s not going to be playing for this team next year, so we would get out of paying him his 4 million dollar buyout. also, we would open up a spot for jay bruce.

i didn’t want to trade dunn because of his production. I would prefer the reds sign him to an extension. the problem is, it’s pretty clear they aren’t going to do that.

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 5, 2008 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't say it's clear that they aren't going to do that

but I would guess that it’s unlikely. The thing is, there aren’t really any long-term solutions in the outfield on the upcoming free agent market, at least not any that will get fans excited. Here’s a quick perusal of the players I believe will be free agent outfielders (though most players could probably play OF if necessary), sorted by OPS+ from the last 3 seasons:

LHB
Raul Ibanez
Adam Dunn
Bobby Abreu
Brian Giles
Ken Griffey
Luis Gonzalez
Garrett Anderson
Cliff Floyd
Brad Wilkerson
Jacques Jones
Trot Nixon
Corey Patterson
Mark Kotsay

RHB
Manny Ramirez
Vladimir Guerrero
Pat Burrell
Mike Cameron
Juan Encarnacion
Emil Brown
Kevin Mench
Craig Monroe
Jay Payton
Jason Michaels
Brady Clark
Gabe Kapler

swtich hitter
Milton Bradley

Unless they somehow became serious contenders for Manny or Vlad (doubtful), if they want a RHB in the outfield next year, their best option is Burrell or maybe Mike Cameron. Honestly, I wouldn’t mind either of them, but Burrell will probably get Dunn type money, and he already has a Dunn type game with the bat. Most fans won’t like that. Cameron could be a good option to cover CF, though next year he’ll be 36. I have my doubts that he’ll be a top notch CF for much longer, if he even still is.

From the left side, Dunn is probably the best option as Ibanez is 8 years his elder. Abreu is interesting, but he’s coming off a big contract and will be 35 next year. Is that really how the Reds should spend their money? Most of the other guys are either old or not very good anyway.

The lone switch-hitter is intriguing. Bradley is a huge injury risk and kind of a psycho. When he’s playing though, he’s a damn good hitter. And given his rep, I’m guessing that a 2-year deal will be the most he’s ever offered. He’s a high risk guy, but he could be fun to watch.

Other than that, there aren’t a whole of options to fill in the outfield if both Griffey and Dunn are gone. Oh sure Bruce will be up, but as we’ve seen this year, when Griffey and Dunn aren’t hitting, this team struggles to score runs. Bruce won’t fix that on his own. Hopefully the Reds management sees this and will at least consider extending Dunn. Then again, he’s not helping his case with the way he is hitting so far this season.

It gets crazy on the road, and awful lonely. That's why I love pornography. This next song is all about my love of hardcore, barely legal pornography.

by Slyde on May 5, 2008 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's why the (seeming) determination to trade hamilton was so puzzling to me

maybe they are planning on EE playing left next year?

I would prefer they sign Dunn to an extension, and have him play along with Bruce.

I’m not really excited about any of the other free agent outfielders, but it would be fun hearing the dirt from a clubhouse involving BP and Bradley.

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 5, 2008 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

At the moment

I’m going to guess that neither Dunn nor Griffey are on the team next season. The outfield is EE, Bruce, and a defensive CFer. The infield is Votto, BP, Gonzalez, Keppinger. And a defensive catcher.

FWIW, even though I don’t think Baker necessarily understands or cares about Dunn’s value, I think Jocketty does. If Dunn is traded, I trust Jocketty working the phones more than I would have trusted Krivsky.

'cause something is happening here, but you don't know what it is.

by Man Mountain on May 5, 2008 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i understand your point, and i agree with you, but i don't see carl crawford's name mentioned in there :-)

I think it will be very interesting in the end to see what kind of return we get for dunn. ther’es no way he finishes the season here, right?

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 5, 2008 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i could see Bob overriding the GM and manager

and demanding that Dunn is retained. I think this boils down to weather or not Bob is willing to spend the money.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 5, 2008 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i think if bob was really wanting to extend dunn it would have already happened...

the fact that there has been ZERO talk about an extension should signal that Dunn will not be here next season.

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 5, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i'm just trying to maintain hope

so it can be dashed in July, or December when he moves on to another team.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 5, 2008 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sweaterpants

Maybe Bob didn’t trust sweater pants enough and didn’t want him working the deal. Maybe he has had Jockety working with Dunn’s agent all along and didn’t let Wayner know.

-Do not play golf behind Dave Parker.

by snohio on May 6, 2008 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i would be willing to bet that that isn't the case

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 6, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

who do trust to answer the Red phone at 3 in the morning?

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 5, 2008 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh shit Jacques Jones is coming to town

Dusty will just love him.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 5, 2008 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Next Year...

....we don’t know what will happen by then. I do know that if I had to choose between Dunn and any of the so-called free agents out there (including the starting pitchers with a modicum of talent we will never get), even with Adam’s defense and strikeouts (which are overrated anyway, so long as you do not approach the Rob Deer range of striking out 40% of your at bats), I’d rather keep and extend Dunn’s contract. Unless a team is willing to part with a top-of-the-line starting pitcher, and possibly assume some of the contract (since we are not the Yankees), or give us several top-rated minor league prospects in return, any trade of one of the few players on this team with a sense of the location of the strike zone would be forebodingly premature.

by tonywf on May 6, 2008 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Arroyo.

And that would have been my answer even before Sunday’s game.

And Marty is pretty irritating but I think we’ve already beaten that can of worms all over the dead horse.

I don't know how to paint a banana gourd to look like a Power Ranger.

by Fat Vegas Alan on May 4, 2008 9:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I wonder...

...if the reason the roster is so odd is because the Reds were essentially a two-headed beast when it was constructed. Krivsky and Jocketty with conflicting visions? If a camel is a horse designed by committee, maybe we have a team that was designed by a committee.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on May 5, 2008 12:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If Krivsky's Patterson story is correct

then it might be a four-headed beast with Dusty Baker going to Castellini demanding certain players and (perhaps?) the amount of money for certain players.

'cause something is happening here, but you don't know what it is.

by Man Mountain on May 5, 2008 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hate to say it...

...I had a bad feeling the moment Dusty was hired. He’s in over his head. This isn’t Chicago or San Fran.

by tonywf on May 5, 2008 2:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Here's a weird one

The Reds have 8 players with 11 or more RBI, tied with the Braves, Cubs, Dodgers, and Yankees for the most in the Majors. But the Reds are one of only two teams without a player with more than 15 RBI – the Royals are the other. I have no idea about what to make of that, but it sure seems weird.

It gets crazy on the road, and awful lonely. That's why I love pornography. This next song is all about my love of hardcore, barely legal pornography.

by Slyde on May 5, 2008 11:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I suspect communism

If we change our name back to the Redlegs, we should be a championship-caliber team in no time.

by Brendanukkah on May 5, 2008 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of course, communism may only be a red herring

by Brendanukkah on May 5, 2008 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is that a fortune city reference?

It gets crazy on the road, and awful lonely. That's why I love pornography. This next song is all about my love of hardcore, barely legal pornography.

by Slyde on May 5, 2008 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

if so

i don’t get it

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 5, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've always blamed Red Herring

'cause something is happening here, but you don't know what it is.

by Man Mountain on May 5, 2008 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe the Reds really are in the throes

of a total fluke. One that’s lasted the quarter of the season.

'cause something is happening here, but you don't know what it is.

by Man Mountain on May 5, 2008 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i think that's the case to an extent

as little faith i have that we’ll win on a short-term basis, I don’t think we’re this bad. The only pitcher who has really outpitched expectations is Volquez. I think we can expect him to regress a bit but expect everyone else to pitch better. The hitting has been way below expectations. I think we can expect Dunn and Junior to hit much better and some of the bit players (Valentin, Patterson, Hatteberg, Hopper) to improve at the plate. The only guy who’s really blowing away expectations is Bako, and his 77 at bats haven’t really been that big of a part of the offense to this point. The removal of Coffey and getting more save situations should make our bullpen much improved. So though I don’t think we’re going to win the Central, I also don’t think we’re going to finish in the cellar.

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 5, 2008 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

And let’s not forget that Josh Fogg was pretty much solely repsonsible for two of April’s losses. Yet here in the first week of May, he has likely pitched himself into the far reaches of the bullpen.

That’s addition by subtraction, muh boy.

I don't know how to paint a banana gourd to look like a Power Ranger.

by Fat Vegas Alan on May 5, 2008 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

tangential

On Saturday, Skip Caray and Joe Simpson were wondering why Javier Valentin was rotting away on the bench, considering how “dangerous” a switch hitter he was. They were the 3rd different broadcast team that I heard express this sentiment on the road trip.

I think it goes to show you how much perception trumps reality, esp. where marginal MLB players are concerned (see also J. Casto). Javy’s living off of 2005 and a few memorable at bats last season.

I think it also suggests that most broadcasters research the Reds by talking to Marty for a few minutes.

'cause something is happening here, but you don't know what it is.

by Man Mountain on May 5, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs