Farmers only are patiently waiting for Walt to do the right thing
Jay Bruce's dominance is reaching ridiculous proportions again. He just turned 21, yet he leads the International League in batting average (.363) and is second in OPS (1.061) to only 30-year-old Mike Hessman, who has 18 home runs and shouldn't even factor into the discussion. Bruce is also second to Hessman in total bases and has raised his on-base percentage to .392, in the top 10. So, assuming the Reds move him up because he's earned it and not just because some spot happened to open up, who do you get rid of to get Bruce in Cincinnati? I would probably DFA Javier Valentin, as he seems to be playing pretty much no role on the team at this point.
Triple-A: Bruce was 2 for 4 with his 10th homer of the season and Matt Maloney had a quality start as the Bats won 5-3. Louisville only got five hits, but it was enough. Jolbert Cabrera's 3-run double in the sixth was the difference. Danny Herrera gave up his first earned run as a Bat but got the hold. UP NEXT: Bats at Indy, tomorrow night.
Double-A: The Lookouts won 17-11 in a classic pitchers' duel. A run down of some of the hits: 2 for Shaun Cumberland (including his 6th homer), 2 for Chris Valaika, 2 for Tonys Gutierrez and 3 for Cody Strait. Eric Eymann went 3 for 5 with 3 doubles, 3 runs and 8 RBIs. 8 RBIs. Just go to the box score and look around a bit. You're bound to find something surprising. UP NEXT: New series at West Tennessee, tomorrow.
High A: Todd Frazier was 2 for 4 with a double, playing left field, in Sarasota's 7-4 loss at Brevard County. Juan Francisco played third and was 0 for 4. UP NEXT: Game 2 at Brevard, 7 tonight.
Low A: Brandon Waring was 3 for 4 with his ninth homer, but Dayton fell 4-3. 3 more strikeouts for Philippe-Alexandre Valiquette, and the farm system's leader in ERA, Enerio Del Rosario, took the loss. UP NEXT: Lansing at Dayton, 7 tonight.
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I see....
...the esteemed Louisville Courier-Journal has an article about Andy Phillips.
Louisville Bats infielder Andy Phillips bolted the New York Yankees’ organization in December, in part because they designated him for the minor leagues.Yet after being one of the Cincinnati Reds’ final roster cuts out of spring training, Phillips finds himself back in Triple-A. It’s perplexing, especially since the Reds are in sore need of right-handed hitters.
Not that perplexing. There’s no room for Andy Phillips, because they have three left-handed first baseman. Or is it three catchers? (Yeah, I know, LLM is a switch-hitter. But he might was well be a lefty.)
I would be okay with DFAing Valentin and calling up Bruce. Let Bruce play CF. He’s been playing it in Louisville, why not in Cincinnati?
And maybe consider trading Hatteberg and calling up Andy Phillips or Jolbert Cabrera.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on May 19, 2008 6:24 AM EDT 0 recs
Looking at the roster
C – Bako, Ross, Valentin
1B – Votto, Hatteberg, Valentin
2B – BP, Freel, Cherry
3B – EdE, Freel, Cherry(?)
SS – Cherry, Janish
OF – Dunn, Griffey, Patterson, Cherry, Freel
You gotta dump LLM. He’s third on the depth chart a 2 positions. He never players – yesterday was his first start in over a month. You might be able to trade him for a PTBNL.
The “problem” is they are not going to bring up Bruce unless he plays every day. That means CF or RF needs to open up. Dusty thinks the CF needs to be a speedster that leads off. And RF just isn’t going anywhere at $12.5 million unless he’s hurt or traded. It sucks that they aren’t putting the best team on the field that they could, but that’s just the way it is.
"Hard being everybody’s hero, I suppose." - Buck O'Neil on Willie Mays
by Slyde on May 19, 2008 8:19 AM EDT 0 recs
what it could be "tomorrow"
Bako/Ross
Votto
Phillips
Janish
Encarnacion
Dunn
Bruce
Griffey
with a bench of Hatteberg, Freel, Patterson, Cherry
Will Janish earn the start today after yesterday’s 3-for-3?
by rojosoto on
May 19, 2008 8:47 AM EDT
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That roster makes me happy in all the right places
Janish has been a very welcome surprise. It’s not just the fact that he’s batting .800. He’s had good at-bats just about every time up. He’s not being overwhelmed. He’s not being aggressive and swinging at the first thing he sees. He draws out at-bats and waits for his pitch. Holy crap!
As for the Bruce situation, I have to echo what everyone else said. Heck, I said it yesterday in the thread. There’s no need to have both Valentin and Hatteberg on the roster. My first inclination is to get whatever you can (anything!) for Valentin, and if you can’t, just dump him. I wouldn’t just dump Hatteberg, but I would be aggressively shopping him.
And good point, BubbaFan, about the right-handed help waiting in AAA. Funny what a week’s worth of winning does to your optimism. Suddenly the present looks bright, and if these roster moves are made, the future looks downright rosy.
by Brendanukkah on
May 19, 2008 9:12 AM EDT
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Janish's at bats yesterday must have been good
The two I saw in his first game were pretty “aggressive”; I believe he swung at the first 5 or 6 pitches he saw.
The one at bat I saw yesterday he swung at the first pitch out of the zone low and away, but he did draw a walk yesterday and he’s seen 31 pitches in 6 plate appearances.
I went to his plate discipline stats at fangraphs (the new widget Slyde linked to two weeks ago) and his numbers there can’t be right I don’t think (scroll to bottom). They have him swinging at every pitch he’s seen. I know this function was having trouble with the Angels and Dodgers; any chance it’s screwy with pitches at Great American, too? Any ideas?
Curse and drat, he's outmaneuvered us.
by Man Mountain on
May 19, 2008 11:30 AM EDT
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It's probably not up to date through yesterday's game
He swung at the first 5 pitches he saw in his first game. His second game was just yesterday.
"Hard being everybody’s hero, I suppose." - Buck O'Neil on Willie Mays
by Slyde on
May 19, 2008 11:38 AM EDT
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I thought this might be it
but the rest of his info was updated
Curse and drat, he's outmaneuvered us.
by Man Mountain on
May 19, 2008 11:52 AM EDT
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Roster
It would seem to me that the only way Phillips gets up here is if Hatteberg gets traded.
I agree LLM looks like the odd man out unless someone’s man crush on Patterson ends in the very near future. Valentin would probably bring a PTBNL if Wayne Walt would figure out the phone system and call someone.
Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds
by Caleb on
May 19, 2008 9:29 AM EDT
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Unless he's traded, losing Patterson won't happen
He’s making $3M. LLM is only making $1.35M. And believe it or not, I trust Patterson to get a hit more than I do Valentin.
by Brendanukkah on
May 19, 2008 9:46 AM EDT
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Walt's probably a little handcuffed right now...
The problem with fixing the roster via trade is likely that other GM’s see the Reds roster crunch just as well as we do and are probably lowballing us on any offers for Hat or anyone else. Heck, there has got to be a half dozen teams that could use Hattteberg at 1b though.
Lessee…
Hatteberg would likely be an upgrade at 1b for Baltimore, SF, the Mets (Delgado looks done), The Mariners (ditto Sexson), He’d make a good platoon partner for Garko in Cleveland, And Toronto is desperate for a DH.
But i’m willing to bet all of these teams are lowballing us if Walt is actually shopping Hat.
by blotzphoto on May 19, 2008 9:34 AM EDT 0 recs
Thoughts
1. Calling up Bruce and putting him in CF may only be a sideways step. However, if there was a way to get him into RF, that would certainly help (though he still sports an ugly 34/9 k/bb ratio).
2. LLM needs to go. This cannot be said often enough.
3. Hatteberg may be struggling because he needs to play every day, which means moving him might benefit everyone. However, he also may be struggling because he’s 38. The problem with moving him, and getting rid of Valentin, is that it leaves the bench with no LH hitters.
Question: What happens if they just bench Jr? Really. He’s killing the team right now both offensively and defensively. I know the PR would be bad in the short term, but if Bruce came up and started playing the way we all believe he will, I think people would forget quickly. If I’m Jockety, I’m burning up the phones to move Jr (accepting either some financial relief or an A-level prospect), and telling Jr to either accept the trade or be benched.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
by sidnancy on May 19, 2008 10:13 AM EDT 0 recs
correction
Bruce’s K/BB is now 38/11 – only slightly better, but still better. right?
"Hard being everybody’s hero, I suppose." - Buck O'Neil on Willie Mays
by Slyde on
May 19, 2008 10:19 AM EDT
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Huh.
BBRef and Baseball Cube need to update more often.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
by sidnancy on
May 19, 2008 11:15 AM EDT
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BBRef is often slow coming out of Sundays
Curse and drat, he's outmaneuvered us.
by Man Mountain on
May 19, 2008 11:30 AM EDT
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BRUCE
Here is a thought, why not bench Patterson/Freel and use Bruce?? I mean seriously, why isnt this happening?? Lets be reasonable, the guy is tearing up AAA and could immediately contribute to the Reds NOW!!!! With Phillips, Votto, Griffey, Bruce and Dunn back to back in that lineup you are always threatening..its STUPID to let him sit in AAA..
by SoxChamps on May 19, 2008 10:36 AM EDT 0 recs
Defense
Patterson/Freel can both make up for some of Jr’s defensive troubles, while Bruce cannot. “He can play CF” is not the same as “He can play CF well”.
Often wrong, never uncertain.
by sidnancy on
May 19, 2008 11:17 AM EDT
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Agreed...
Sort of like saying that I can play the violin…
Are you sure you're OK? Have you had an MRI?
by Paul Householder on
May 19, 2008 11:21 AM EDT
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I think we can only assume that he can't handle CF between Griffey and Dunn
Unless someone has watched him over an extended time, I think the assumption that he can’t play CF in the Majors is just conjecture. He is still only 21 and while CF may not be his long-term position, that doesn’t mean that he couldn’t handle it for 4 months this year.
"Hard being everybody’s hero, I suppose." - Buck O'Neil on Willie Mays
by Slyde on
May 19, 2008 11:40 AM EDT
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This has been my assumption
But FWIW, Hal reported that a “rival scout” rated Bruce as a very good defensive CF. I’m satisfied.
"I had been told he couldn’t play center field. He can, better than anybody they have now. He can play all three outfield positions. He has everything but speed and his instincts are so good he gets great jumps on balls."I never saw a ball go over his head and stay in the park and I never saw one fall in front of him and he caught everything in the gaps," he said. "He’d be playing center field for my team right now and we have a good center fielder."
by ken on
May 19, 2008 5:02 PM EDT
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speaking of junior dragging down two positions
why isn’t HE the one who gets taken out late in games for defensive replacements? he’s the one dropping flyballs and letting everything drop in front of him. and if we have to keep corey, isn’t he the guy who should be going into games late? seems like that’s what he’s good for. (and nothing more)
i’d rather have bruce’s bat and less range than patterson’s bat and more range.
regardless, we’re going to have to wait until the reds get back to town before there’s even a chance bruce will be called up (unless one of the reds outfielders gets hurt.) no way they call him up when the team’s on the road.
by Daedalus on May 19, 2008 11:47 AM EDT 0 recs
I agree
Why sub out a hot-hitting Dunn in a two-run game when Griffey is a poorer defender and hasn’t been hitting as well?
I think Dusty is a little overprotective of Griffey.
Curse and drat, he's outmaneuvered us.
by Man Mountain on
May 19, 2008 11:56 AM EDT
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Plus
I suspect Jr. benefits more from the rest, as susceptible as he is to injury.
by Gray on
May 19, 2008 12:00 PM EDT
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In yesterday's instance
Griffey was due up 2nd in the 9th – Dunn was 5th. So, logistically, it makes more sense for that game. But the general rule that Dunn gets replaced while Dunn sits is a little silly. Then again, most of Dusty’s general rules are as well.
"Hard being everybody’s hero, I suppose." - Buck O'Neil on Willie Mays
by Slyde on
May 19, 2008 12:01 PM EDT
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d'oh, that should be "Griffey plays while Dunn sits"
"Hard being everybody’s hero, I suppose." - Buck O'Neil on Willie Mays
by Slyde on
May 19, 2008 12:02 PM EDT
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Good question.
The jump in defense we get from putting Patterson/Freel/Hudson in RF for Jr. is much greater than the difference from replacing Dunn.
Does this date to Griffey’s negative comments after he was double-switched out?
by Gray on
May 19, 2008 11:57 AM EDT
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I was thinking the same thing
I remember Griffey saying something like “it wouldn’t happen again” after he was double-switched out sometime last year. Or maybe it was the year before, time flies. Either way, Griff has an ego/arrogance thing that will block common sense (and Dusty values veterans’ egos over common sense, as we all know.)
"Just remember, it's not a lie if you believe it." - George Costanza
by beasleymachine on
May 19, 2008 12:54 PM EDT
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It was August last year
Mackanin brought Hopper in along with Weathers. Here’s a write up: http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070815&content_id=2150697&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin
I give Griff props for the Bad News Bears: Breaking Training reference.
Curse and drat, he's outmaneuvered us.
by Man Mountain on
May 19, 2008 1:30 PM EDT
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oh, and i wanted to ask
would y’all rather get rid of LLM and get nothing in return or trade hatte and get a low level prospect?
by Daedalus on May 19, 2008 11:48 AM EDT 0 recs
Are we getting rid of salary too?
I’m pretty indifferent between the two. But is there really no demand for half-decent catchers?
by Gray on
May 19, 2008 11:55 AM EDT
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You always like to get something when you get rid of something
But in my mind, we can still get something beyond a low level prospect (surely a mid-level!) for Hatte. It’s entirely possible that I’m inflating his value though. Still, I would rather dump Valentin for nothing than sell Hatte for too little.
by Brendanukkah on
May 19, 2008 12:27 PM EDT
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So, um.
Is there a reason why Bruce couldn’t bat leadoff? He does have 8 SB/1 CS in AAA…
by Gray on May 19, 2008 12:45 PM EDT 0 recs
In general or instead of Patterson?
His AVG would likely be higher than Patterson’s OBP.
by rojosoto on
May 19, 2008 12:58 PM EDT
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I was thinking the same thing, again
If he were to play CF, we know he’d bad leadoff, anyway, because that’s what Dusty does. I wouldn’t mind him being at leadoff, if it would get him in the lineup. I wouldn’t mind him batting 8th if it got him in the lineup. Just get him in the lineup!
"Just remember, it's not a lie if you believe it." - George Costanza
by beasleymachine on
May 19, 2008 1:00 PM EDT
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Er
that’s “bat” leadoff. Patterson is “bad” leadoff. :)
"Just remember, it's not a lie if you believe it." - George Costanza
by beasleymachine on
May 19, 2008 1:01 PM EDT
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Love it
“Patterson will be badding lead off”
Curse and drat, he's outmaneuvered us.
by Man Mountain on
May 19, 2008 1:31 PM EDT
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Bring up Bruce and Phillips. Lose Hatte AND Javy.
Neither serves a purpose on this team. Votto is the present at first base and Hatteberg isn’t useful as a pinch hitter or even a once-every-two-weeks starter. Javy isn’t useful period.
Patterson gets on base about once every three games. Honestly, the only guy on the team who is a worse leadoff hitter than him is probably Valentin. His base-stealing prowess has made essentially no contribution to Reds victories this year. His defense is good, but Bruce is 21, athletic, strong-armed, and has a good defensive reputation. I find it difficult to believe he wouldn’t be just fine in CF. And he will hit. He will hit fantastically. I simply find it difficult to worry that much about Bruce’s K/BB rates when he’s hitting .360 with a 1.060 OPS in a league that he’s still young for, especially when he has never not completely raked a league, regardless of his K/BB rates. He’s a superstar level talent and he will adjust. He obviously is not a player who belongs in AAA, and should be in the majors.
Who bats leadoff when he comes up and starts in center? Who cares. Bruce can hit there, Phillips can hit there, Hairston can hit there, Janish can hit there, Griffey can further bruise his ego and Freel can hit there. It really doesn’t matter to me, because they aren’t going to be worse than Patterson. If this team is serious about winning this year, there are zero excuses for Jay Bruce to not be up already.
by Geki on May 19, 2008 1:18 PM EDT 0 recs
I remember a simliar conversation last year about homer
and it sort of came back to the arbitration clock thing again. Is that what is holding Bruce up right now? I’d say so because clearly as everyone has pointed out this situation makes little to no sense if you don’t look at that. But if the current trend continues of teams attempting to lock up their young players early see Hamily Rameriz or Longoria that would render the arb clock reason void. This bull shit better stop soon….............
by OURob on May 19, 2008 2:05 PM EDT 0 recs
FWIW
The Sic says it’s not arb-related:
—Starting the arbitration clock is not a factor with Jay Bruce. Jocketty said what he said the other day: It’s a playing time issue. “We’re going to have do it sometime and just figure it out.”
Not sure if I buy it, but if so, it’s back to Dunn or Griffey or Patterson/Freel blocking the Bruce. I’d like to hear the organization’s opinion on which of those is reasonable.
Curse and drat, he's outmaneuvered us.
by Man Mountain on
May 19, 2008 2:17 PM EDT
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i buy it
only because the arb-clock reason doesnt make a whole lot of sense. Castellini is willing to pay Fransisco Cordero $12 million a year to throw 70 innings, but he’s not willing to pay an extra $2 million to a Super-2 player who could immediately make the Reds’ lineup much better? I just think Walt is kinda handcuffed by the current centerfield logjam and can’t make the moves fast enough to get bruce up. I imagine some of those outfielders (Hopefully Griffey, Patterson and/or Freel) are dealt or released in the next couple weeks to get Bruce’s ass in the Cincinnati starting lineup.
What do you mean, "blank slate"?
by boobs on
May 19, 2008 2:43 PM EDT
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He's got a lot on his plate.
It looks like we really need to get rid of three or four of Griffey/Patterson/Freel/Valentin/Hatteberg, which seems like a lot to ask right now.
by Gray on
May 19, 2008 2:47 PM EDT
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i agree
but if things arent different by mid-june, ill be singing a different tune
What do you mean, "blank slate"?
by boobs on
May 19, 2008 2:48 PM EDT
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It's just really sad to think that
an organization could look at Freatterson and think thats a better option than Bruce, there are AB to be taken away from people and it’s pretty clear who those people are, which is why I don’t buy it completely being about the playing time.
by OURob on
May 19, 2008 4:49 PM EDT
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Yeah, but Bruce deserves it
Homer never did. Bruce is putting up the production. The only downside to him, when he slumps, he has a tendency to be a thorn. But when he is hot, he can carry a team. The Reds need something like that.
by Johnnypronto on
May 19, 2008 2:52 PM EDT
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hmm, sounds a lot like someone else I know...

"Hard being everybody’s hero, I suppose." - Buck O'Neil on Willie Mays
by Slyde on
May 19, 2008 4:19 PM EDT
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no
I know the guy that made that bat.
"Hard being everybody’s hero, I suppose." - Buck O'Neil on Willie Mays
by Slyde on
May 19, 2008 4:59 PM EDT
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Woulda been better if you knew
the horse that made the baseball. Eight Belles!
by Brendanukkah on
May 19, 2008 5:10 PM EDT
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Well, that's one of them anyway.
They made eight balls out of her.
by Brendanukkah on
May 19, 2008 5:11 PM EDT
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