Red Reporter: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:

.410 Good Buddy

African15b_tiny by Madville on

Heading into the middle of May, the Reds as we all know, are in last place in the weakest MLB division with a an impressive .410 winning percentage and only 7.5 games behind in the standings. The ML Owner's meeting is coming up on (I believe the 14th & 15th of May).this juncture seems like an opportune time for The Reds to seriously begin negotiations with the Mariners to move Ken Griffey Jr.. Griffey, while apparently a good teammate, a certain Hall of Famer and a possible short term fan draw (if he ever gets around to hitting #600), has had only 10 extra base hits this season , with a .338 OBP and a .379 SLg. His general play is quasi-acceptable,  his speed is greatly diminished and his value is dropping as rapidly as his on base percentage., From Fay's blog today;

The Reds apparently are more than willing to trade outfielder Ken Griffey Jr., and Griffey's original team, the Mariners, is in the process of checking out the 38-year-old slugger to see if he might be the answer to an underperforming offense.

The big stumbling block is that Seattle only wants Jr. as a DH. Jr. believes that he needs to be in the line up everyday. The sabrematicians from RR can give us more statistical details relevant to Jr.'s impact on the the Reds. I don't think i'd be too far off in saying, from an old schooler's pt. of view,  Jay Bruce needs to be in the line daily, learning to hit Major League pitching and helping to set the stage for either a  mid-to-late season surge or a much more successful 2009.

This is not new news - But with Dunn slumping, Dusty continuing to play Pqatterson in CF, this team needs J. before we're 12 - 13 games back with no real hope of getting back into the race.

If the reds move NOW we might, (might that is) get a prospect or two. But if Bob and Co. waits well... Fay says better that I

:Griffey is a 10-and-5 player (10 or more years in the big leagues, the past five with the same team) with the right to veto any trade. If no trade happens in the coming weeks, the Mariners are expected to be a serious suitor for his services should he become a free agent this offseason.

 

0 recs | Comment 100 comments

Story-email Email | Print |

Comments

Display:

If they do pull the trigger on a trade

I could see Jr blocking it. I would really like to see him at least get # 600 before he leaves us.

Who does Seattle have that would be a good fit for the Reds? Even though Griffey is at the end of a great career he should still bring something more than spare parts in return.

Also, should Ken Griffey Jr be inducted in the REDS Hall of Fame after his retirement?

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on May 13, 2008 3:10 PM EDT   0 recs

I vote yes on the Reds HOF

Please Note: I may be totally full of shit.

by jch24 on May 13, 2008 3:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

as for the haul

I like Jeremy Reed as a guy who is post-prospect age, but could still be a nice player. He’d be more valuable to this team from a baseball standpoint than Griffey. I hate saying that.

by Blue on May 13, 2008 3:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't know the minors like a lot of people on this site

But after the Bedard trade, I would guess that there’s not a lot in the pantry. Although I also can’t see how a team would give up a valuable prospect for Griffey—but it is Bavasi. The main draw for me would really be to have someone else picking up (at least some of) the tab for Junior, and if we get anything out of it, great. It opens the door to call up Bruce and let him play his more natural position of right field. It should improve our outfield defense a little bit, and maybe even our offense. There’d be zero pressure on the front office to pick up Grif’s $16M option next year, and we’d be off the hook for the $4M buyout. That money can go towards signing Dunn, or getting a catcher, or nabbing a starter…

I like Griffey. I really do. I appreciate the years of service he gave to the club. It’s time for them to part ways, as the relationship has soured a little bit for both parties. Whatever happened in Seattle was 9+ years ago, and is likely water under the bridge. I remember how touched Junior was by the fans’ reaction last year. If they want him back, and he’s willing to go, I’d almost see that as a fair trade. If they kick in a useful player as well, that’s just gravy.

As for the Reds HOF… I think it’s a yes. He hit his 400th, 500th, and (hopefully) 600th home run as a Red. He’s hit 199 HRs so far as a Red, which is good for 8th all-time in team history. With five more, he passes Eric Davis for 7th. He made 3 All-Star games as a Red and helped us get Great American built. And the day the Reds traded for him was one of the greatest days of my life as a fan.

by Brendanukkah on May 13, 2008 3:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

FWIW

Adam Dunn is tied with George Foster for 5th, and just seven away from catching Klu. Pretty heady company, to be among those Reds legends. And he’s there in significanly fewer at-bats.

by Brendanukkah on May 13, 2008 3:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

61 Ks for Dunn to catch Concepcion for third all-time, in about 5200+ less PAs

Of course, the all-time Reds strikeout leader is Mr. Clutch himself, Tony Perez.

I hope this doesn’t come across as bashing Dunn. What this is doing for me is really opening my eyes as to how Adam is ALREADY one of the best Reds players EVER. I’m kind of excited to see where he ranks on all these lists in the future.

by Brendanukkah on May 13, 2008 3:39 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

don't tell Slyde

he’ll count you as another convert to his evil religion

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on May 13, 2008 5:22 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

And the day the Reds traded for him was one of the greatest days of my life as a fan.

It’s the only time an off-season move has made me buy tickets that day – though with the way they wait until March to sell tickets now, it’s pretty much impossible to buy them the day of a move.

"Hard being everybody’s hero, I suppose." - Buck O'Neil on Willie Mays

by Slyde on May 13, 2008 3:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

wasn't the acquistion of griffey kind of a train wreck too?

i seem to recall months of will they or won’t they talk.

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on May 14, 2008 6:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Buy tickets that day

I did the same thing. I lived in Indianapolis at the time, and when I heard about the trade I immediately called to get Opening Day tickets from a local broker. It was great to be there, but the day itself was cold and rainy. Junior went 0-for-3 in that weird, rained-out “game doesn’t count but stats count” opener. I remember Junior got robust applause each time up from an increasingly cold and wet crowd.

by ctnyc on May 15, 2008 12:35 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

God do hate to sat this but I don't see Jr. as being that important to or

Putting the numbers to automatically give him Reds Hall of fame status. His great glory years were with the Mariners.
Back in the day when he was healthy and could run and Slyde into home.

Eeyore has more fun than a Reds fan.

by Madville on May 13, 2008 4:42 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It is true that his best years were in Seattle

But Griffey has been one of the most talented players to ever put on a Reds uniform. He also has done many things for the city through his philanthropic efforts. He has had many struggles here and no one is happy with his performance except for possibly 01 05 and maybe 07. As was already stated he has hit more Hrs than all but a few Red greats. I understand where you are coming from, but for me things are a little different. I have an inordinate amount of man love for Griff as do a lot of people my age. I don’t know why but ever since I was a good kid, I loved him (mainly because he was awesome). He debuted when I was 5 and I have been a fan since. Its not that I do not love the Barry larkins, the Chris Sabos, the Eric Davises etc. but for the majority of my life Griffey was the baseball player.

When I was 13 I had to move from Ashland, KY to Dodge City, KS and got to see maybe 3 reds games, but usually one was in person. I kinda fell out of fanhood as these were the days of dial-up internet and we did not even have that for a long time. But when we got that Sports Illustrated with Griffey’s picture on it, my hope was revived as I’m sure many others’ was as well. I will root for Griff wherever he will play and I hope it remains in Cincinnati for the rest of his career. If he were traded the Reds will still of course be my team but I will root for Jr wherever he will go for as long as he plays. Sometimes he does not give me good reason for my blind support, but not everything has to make sense.
After that whole long-winded thing I am going to go get ready for the hour long drive to the Nati as I will be at the game tonight with a few $7 beers and hope to see Griff hit 598

by johnny cueto thinks we're sellouts on May 13, 2008 5:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Admit it

The reason that SI issue was so cool is because you knew one day you’d trade internet posts with someone who was in one of the photos in that issue.

(I love promoting my Griff connection. Its my 15 minutes of indirect fame.)

The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!

by TheC on May 13, 2008 6:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I have that issue at home somewhere

Which pic are you in?

Please Note: I may be totally full of shit.

by jch24 on May 14, 2008 9:51 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I hope

hitting #600 in Seattle is a selling point for the Reds. It is a magnificent accomplishment and should justly be celebrated, but if it helps Seattle take him, by all means. His trade value is not good and I’m just guessing at this, but who else would want him? His contract makes him a trade liability, so if Seattle is willing to take that salary for the chase to 600, hurrah.

Sometimes 8 Just Isn't Enough

by Pops Daniels on May 13, 2008 3:23 PM EDT   0 recs

I agree

I don’t fault people for wanting to see him hit #600 as a Red, but from a purely baseball standpoint, I think his value will be higher now as he moves toward 600 than it will afterward. And it’s not like Reds fans are stuffing the stadium to see him get to 600.

"Hard being everybody’s hero, I suppose." - Buck O'Neil on Willie Mays

by Slyde on May 13, 2008 3:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Fer shur dude

Eeyore has more fun than a Reds fan.

by Madville on May 13, 2008 10:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

jeff clement

maybe it’s overshooting at this point, but they’re locked into kenji johjima, and clement is much more valuable as a catcher than as a 1B/DH. straight-up swap.

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 13, 2008 3:36 PM EDT   0 recs

I'd take it

And eat a pretty significant chunk of Grif’s salary to do it.

by Brendanukkah on May 13, 2008 3:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hey, Hey it's the lineup from the Fay

Ryan Freel cf
Jeff Keppinger ss
Brandon Phillips 2b
Edwin Encarnacion 3b
Joey Votto 1b
Jerry Hairston Jr. rf
Adam Dunn lf
David Ross c
Edinson Volquez p

v. LH Mark Hendrickson

Sometimes 8 Just Isn't Enough

by Pops Daniels on May 13, 2008 3:44 PM EDT   0 recs

dunn in the 7-slot again

wow

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 13, 2008 3:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No shit

I really do not like Dusty Baker. The trial period is over. He is officially the wrong hire.

Sometimes 8 Just Isn't Enough

by Pops Daniels on May 13, 2008 3:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

And pops don't forget "Good enough is not Good enough'

Dustbag isn’t even good enough…well he’s good enough to take the money and relive his Dodger glory daze.

Eeyore has more fun than a Reds fan.

by Madville on May 13, 2008 4:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I hate to be a broken record

but the batting out of order thing was really the topper for me. Drunk-assed fallin’ down softball players know better. This is goddamn unnerving, all of it. Patterson, the whatthefuckishethinking line-ups, his stubborn refusals to LOOK AT FACTS, all of it. I’m sick of him already. I feel like the loser because he consistently ruins my nights. I should know better.

Sometimes 8 Just Isn't Enough

by Pops Daniels on May 13, 2008 4:48 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

replaced by R-R-R-R

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 13, 2008 3:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It's common knowledge

that you can’t have 2 good hitting lefties back-to-back, but you can have as many righties back-to-back as you see fit. Right-haded pitchers can’t get right-handed hitters out. Everyone knows that. It’s as well known as the fact that the CF must lead off.

"Hard being everybody’s hero, I suppose." - Buck O'Neil on Willie Mays

by Slyde on May 13, 2008 4:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Lets see if I understand...

If the Cf leads off then the SS is supposed to bat 2nd?
The no. 3 batter is then the over the hill star who gets to play where he wants and bats where he wants as well/?
But what happens next Mr. Slyde ? I’m getting confused.

Eeyore has more fun than a Reds fan.

by Madville on May 13, 2008 4:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What if Dusty mangaged the Dodgers?

would Jones be leading off then?

Norris Hopper's #1 fan!!!

by Zach K on May 14, 2008 7:48 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What happened to maybe giving a hot hand another few ABS ?

I don’t like CoPat – but Christ on a hubcap, a guy comes out and gets 4 hits maybe you go with him and see if he’s gonna get hot.

Eeyore has more fun than a Reds fan.

by Madville on May 13, 2008 3:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I get small sample size, really

But Corey, Dusty’s dude, gets four hits, then sits the next game? I, clearly, am not a baseball guy.

by Brendanukkah on May 13, 2008 3:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Considering the theme of this post.....

Do we read anything into the one name missing from that lineup? Well… I”m going to read something into it anyway.

The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!

by TheC on May 13, 2008 4:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i think not

i dont think he’s had a day of in two weeks

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 13, 2008 5:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

*day off

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 13, 2008 5:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

except for Thursday and Friday of last week

"Hard being everybody’s hero, I suppose." - Buck O'Neil on Willie Mays

by Slyde on May 13, 2008 5:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

but then he played 2 on saturday

so…

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 13, 2008 5:06 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

anyway dick,

i was referring to his not getting off on a day the reds played a game. dick

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 13, 2008 5:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

stop making excuses for him.

you are an enabler.

"Hard being everybody’s hero, I suppose." - Buck O'Neil on Willie Mays

by Slyde on May 13, 2008 5:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Give in to your anger

Or whatever the Emperor says to Luke when he’s got him good and riled up.

The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!

by TheC on May 13, 2008 6:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The .410 is a nice little shot gun,

but it’s a lousy winning percentage.

I’d deal Junior to Seattle in a heartbeat, but doubt a top-notch prospect will come in return. I’d love to have Clement, but would settle for RHP Juan Ramirez or LHP Ryan Rowland-Smith. I’d take much less just to get out from under the contract.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on May 13, 2008 3:52 PM EDT   0 recs

10 - 4 T. Turtle - Roger that.

Eeyore has more fun than a Reds fan.

by Madville on May 14, 2008 12:03 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

More B-R fun

The Reds used to have a pitcher named Orval Overall. That is fantastic!

by Brendanukkah on May 13, 2008 3:56 PM EDT   0 recs

that was a good trade, overall

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 13, 2008 4:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

At the time it seemed ok

Sort of like a Smoltz for Alexander type deal. Overall was about a .500 pitcher with us with a declining ERA+. Wicker was a veteran, near the end of his career. In fact, he retired after that season, with the Reds finishing sixth in the NL. Not so good. Then Overall turned his career around in Chicago, ending up with a record of 108-71 and a career ERA+ of 122 (in 1909 it was 178). The biggest moment for Overall came when he helped the Cubs win the World Series, pitching in 3 games, including two starts and two wins.

So we kind of did get housed on the Trade.

Of course, now I finally realize that you were just punning on his name. But B-R is just so much fun!

by Brendanukkah on May 13, 2008 4:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

At that time it was certainly NOT ok

Overall was already a certified clutch performer. In ‘01 he blocked a punt for a safety against Stanford in The Big Game, leading his Bears in a 2-0 victory.

Of course, we weren’t to know at the time that Wicker would lose his hand in an offseason manufacturing accident.

by ken on May 13, 2008 4:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

If Mordecai Brown lost two fingers...

Imagine what I could do without a whole hand!

by Brendanukkah on May 13, 2008 5:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

First I thought this diary was a reference to

Chipper Jone’s batting Average.

But he is batting but a mere .406 and he is no friend of mine.

Tanzen!

by Verka Serduchka on May 13, 2008 4:22 PM EDT   0 recs

if you worked at hooters he would be a friend of yours.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 13, 2008 4:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I would count 1 low level minor league prospect as better than 0


Even my 13 month old granddaughter gets it.

Eeyore has more fun than a Reds fan.

by Madville on May 13, 2008 4:28 PM EDT   0 recs

but

we would get two sandwich picks if we let him walk. 2 high draft picks is better than one low-level prospect

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on May 13, 2008 4:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

If we offer him arbitration

Which is a bit risky. Plus, he may not be a Type A by the end of this year at the rate he’s going.

by ken on May 13, 2008 4:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i don't think the Reds could offer him arbitration

because there is either a mutal or club option for 2009. I think if they fail to exercise that option they get nothing.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 13, 2008 4:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

well

Rich Aurilia had his option declined and they still offered him arbitration and got a supplemental pick out of it. However, they’d be crazy to offer him arbitration, and he’d be stupid to not accept it.

by Blue on May 13, 2008 5:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

well i am wrong, i was mostly making an assumption

I think Griffey could get a handsome contract from another team, although I do believe the rules of arbitration do not allow for more than a 35% reduction in pay, so he probably would make more in arbitration than free agency. But he may relize that his time in Cincinnati has been a bit of a disastor and just want to leave.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 13, 2008 5:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

That rule wouldn't apply to Jr.

Just saw this at bbtf, quoting the CBA:

If the Player accepts the offer to arbitrate, he shall be a signed
player for the next season and the parties will conduct a salary arbitration
proceeding under Article VI; provided, however, that the
rules concerning maximum salary reduction set forth in Article VI
shall be inapplicable and the parties shall be required to exchange
figures on the last day established for the exchange of salary arbitration
figures under Article VI.

The 35% salary reduction rule doesn’t apply to free agents (6+ years of service).

by ken on May 14, 2008 2:42 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't think that's right

but I don’t have the authority to back me up or the desire to check the CBA, so I could be wrong. But declining a player option should have nothing to do with a player’s FA status.

by ken on May 13, 2008 5:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I was the only Reds fan at my school in Chicago growing up...

I remember instantly becoming the coolest kid in school the moment the Reds got Griffey.

Needless to say, this was not how I predicted the next 9 years would go.

Needless to say, I would’ve got beaten like a red-headed stepchild from ‘01-’05 if the Reds didn’t fade into irrelevance.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on May 13, 2008 4:43 PM EDT   0 recs

Pre-thread poutpourri
  • The word from reds.com on tonight’s FL starter, Mark Hendrickson:
    FLA: LHP Mark Hendrickson (5-1, 3.56 ERA)
    Hendrickson usually conserves his pitches pretty well. But during his last start on Thursday against the Brewers, he hrew over 60 pitches through three innings and exited with 109 after 4 1/3 innings—being unable to log the required five innings to be eligible to get a win. Still, Hendrickson goes into his start against the Reds having given up three runs or fewer in seven straight starts.
  • BA will start Wednesday, on three day’s rest. “That’s old school,” Reds manager Dusty Baker said. “It’s real old school … ancient school. He’s been pretty good on three days’ rest since he’s been here. He’s a pitcher that doesn’t exert a whole bunch of effort. That’s why he can throw more pitches than the average guy. He looks almost effortless when he’s pitching.”

In his career, Arroyo’s started on 3 days rest 6 times, going 35 innings with a 4.11 ERA and allowing 25 K, 10 BB and 5 HR. He’s also coming off a 115-pitch start, and I’m not sure that putting him on short rest is the right move for a guy who may have finally shook off an early season slump.

  • An article about the draft doesn’t give us much of an idea as to how the Reds are thinking. They’re prioritizing talent over need, which is good.

by ken on May 13, 2008 4:47 PM EDT   0 recs

i personally think what the Reds should do about the rotation is

demote Belisle to AAA, have Bailey start tomorow and Arroyo on Thursday I don’t know when the last time Bailey pitched, but they should have planned this out after Belisle was whalloped again in his last start. I am happy that Volquez is pitching on Sunday because I have tickets for that day.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 13, 2008 5:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

hmm...

Thursday is Bailey’s regular turn, and they for some reason have Arroyo going on three days rest to put Arroyo on the mound Wednesday and Belisle on Thursday…

START THE RAMPANT SPECULATION!!!

by Blue on May 13, 2008 5:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The AntiClog has spoken regarding 3 days rest for Bronson:

Something about “He’s done it before and Arroyo would have been a great pitcher back in the days of the 4 man rotation.

The 4th guy in the row is Kent Murker.

Eeyore has more fun than a Reds fan.

by Madville on May 13, 2008 10:45 PM EDT to parent up   1 recs

I was hoping last season would have put the lie

to the notion that Bronson has a rubber arm and can pitch well no matter how many he’s thrown, or how few days of rest. This terrifies me. If we lose the game, that’s one thing, but stunts like these tend to throw Bronson out of whack for the next four-five starts. Bah!

If only Dusty hadn’t been out pheasant-hunting last year, and had used his offseason to learn about the players he was getting.

by Brendanukkah on May 13, 2008 5:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

he did

Bronson Arroyo isn’t a fastball pitcher, most of his pitches are in the high 60’s or 70’s. We know how much easier it is to throw a curveball rather than a fastball, so Dusty knows Bronson.

The Dusty Path to the World Series!*

*Note this is not an endorsment of Dusty Baker.

by justin007000 on May 13, 2008 5:11 PM EDT to parent up