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Minors and Draft

With this youth we have playing in the majors it could make our system look relatively bear. I feel like we had decent depth coming into the season and signing the 2mill dollar latin kid should help that a little but there does not seem to be a ton of high ceiling players in the minors.

I like plenty of our guys but Frazier is what he is, Stubbs is a question mark with his plate disc. and we won't know about Mesoraco for at least a few years. I feel like for all of O'Brien's downfalls he did draft a couple of decent players. Wayner I'm not so sure about. 

Also how about Brandon Waring, Todd Frazier and BJ Szymanski? I know it is early but they are already hitting very well. Does Waring really have that many holes in his swing because his Brandon Wood impression sure looks good. If he turns out to be a McPherson clone but healthy and right handed I think that would be a solid major leaguer. With Frazier is there any way he can stick at SS? I love the bat but if he moves to the OF it becomes just above average and probably right at average for a corner. I also know Szymanski is 25 but everyone knew he was a project when he was drafted and maybe he has just put it together and can give us depth or at least trade bait if we are contending. 

With that said, what do we do in this years draft? I would personally love to see Beckman slip to us as I don't see a real ss of the future, but I'm sure that will be slim to none of a chance. If we draft one of the polished first basemen can Votto more to the OF because I'm sure it'll only be a year and a half before we see 1 or more of them in the major leagues. Pitching is always a nice option but there is no body that has sold themselves as a top youngster that will slip down to us. It seems like the top few kids then a drop off.

So what do we do and what do you all think about our Minor League system. I know we were ranked Number 1 but once those top dogs are seeing time in Cincy I don;t want to drop to the bottom of the league again.


 

 

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A few thoughts

1) Frazier - What do you mean by "he is what he is?" Dude raked at Billings last year, and looks to be tearing up Dayton early on. He's a little old for his level, but they should move him along pretty quickly. He's a guy I could see in Chattanooga by the end of the year, and if he's still hitting there, he could take a big step forward. He won't stick at SS, though. He's a 3B long-term.

2) Stubbs - Plate discipline is absolutely not the problem with Stubbs. He sees a ton of pitches and takes lots of walks. Contact rate is the problem. If he gets that sorted out, his tools and plate discipline could make him a Top-20 prospect by the end of the year. Sometimes, things just seem to "click" all of a sudden for tools guys like Stubbs. Hopefully, that happens this year.

3) Szymanski - It will take more than 1 week of performance to convince me that he's improving after 3 years of crap. Maybe he got it together. Pardon my skepticism

4) Draft - No way Tim Beckham gets to us. The consensus top 4 are Beckham, Pedro Alvarez (1/3B), Aaron Crow (RHP) and Brian Matusz (RHP). Smoak or Alonso would probably be the best bats available at #7, but both are limited defensively, and we already have plenty of those. Most likely, we're looking at one of the pitchers Tanner Scheppers (RHP) from Fresno St., Christian Friederich (LHP) from Western Kentucky, or Tim Melville (LHP) from HS in Georgia.

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on Apr 9, 2008 9:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Frazier is polished and we know what we are getting it was not a knock.

Hopefully it clicks for Stubbs as you said but a good comp by some has been Ryan Sweeney and thats not good for us, at least not right now.

As I said I knew it was slim to none with Beckham. Personally I'd like Melville out of that bunch but I don't know if he'll be there.

by kennythered on Apr 9, 2008 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No way we'll get Tim Beckham, but Gordon is possible.

The Reds are usually pretty tough to get a read on in terms of the draft, but I'd say Tim Beckham's the favorite to go first overall, and even if he doesn't, he won't drop to number seven. I wouldn't mind Gordon Beckham, another shortstop out of Georgia (no relation), but I think the Reds grabbing an arm is the most likely option. I'd like to see the Reds take a college player who can advance quickly if they can, but they've drafted well over the past several years (Stubbs over Lincecum notwithstanding), so I guess I'll have a little faith.

As for current Reds prospects, I love Frazier. He's not gonna stick at SS, but he'll end up at 3B or a corner outfield spot and he'll rake. I think he's gonna have the bat to play anywhere, though I have no idea where that'll be.

Waring I'm less sold on, simply because of the strikeouts. He's obviously got some great power, but for a relatively polished collegiate player, you don't like to see strikeouts in a third of his plate appearances. We'll know more about him as he moves up, but I'm still not sure he's gonna be able to make contact at higher levels.

Stubbs' issue, as it has been, is making contact, but I've got faith that he'll make enough contact to at least be a major leaguer, if not a terribly good one. He's still got loads of potential, though the power hasn't quite been as advertised when he was coming out in my opinion.

As for Szymanski, I've pretty much given up all hope of him ever becoming a useful major leaguer, and one week comes nowhere near changing that.

by Geki on Apr 9, 2008 10:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Curious

I'm curious with Waring what his holes are or his problems are. Is he terrible vs. anything that spins?

With Szymanski I have not lost all hope yet but I know it is bleak.

by kennythered on Apr 9, 2008 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Waring tends to chase breaking pitches in the dirt.

He struck out 83 times in 267 at bats last year at Billings. Of course, he also hit 20 home runs. He has great bat speed and can kill fastballs. He'll need to improve against good breaking stuff at the higher levels. He's a poor fielder, too, so a permanent move to the OF could well be in store. I'm not down on him at all. He could be a big power guy. He just needs to keep working to get better.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Apr 10, 2008 3:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I see plenty of potential, although I see where you're coming from.

Louisville: Paul Janish can be a very good reserve SS. Homer Bailey will be a very good SP. If Bill Bray can ever stay healthy, he can be an outstanding LHRP. Ty Pelland and Marcus McBeth can be serviceable, maybe more with Pelland. Matt Maloney, I'm convinced, will be a reliever but could be a solid loogy at worst.

Chattanooga: Craig Tatum is MLB ready defensively right now. At worst, he'll be a defensive-minded backup. Danny Dorn has fourth-OF potential at worst. Luis Boliver already is 27 or I'd be higher on him. I hope I'm wrong, but I have no confidence in B.J. Szymanski.

I love Chattanooga's pitching. Daryl Thompson has terrific potential. Josh Roenicke will be in the pen by the end of this season at the latest. I like Ben Jukich and Pedro Viola a lot. Sam Lecure has potential.

Sarasota: Stubbs will be a MLB OF if nothing else because he's stellar on defense. I think he'll hit enough to be much more than a defensive specialist. Chris Valaika has MLB utility man written all over him, but has the ability to play a solid SS, making him even more valuable. Juan Francisco has power potential. Chris Heisey and Justin Turner are interesting.

Pitchers Jordan Smith, Travis Wood and Sean Watson all have talent worth noting.

Dayton: Todd Frazier's bat is too good to ignore. He won't stay at SS, but will be a fine 3B or corner OF. Brandon Waring has power but a lot of holes in his swing.

Pitchers Phil Valiquette and Terrell Young have plenty of talent but a lot of baggage, too. We'll see.

Others: Devin Mesoraco is very talented. Let's give him a couple of seasons and see what he can do. Kyle Lotzkar has a promising arm, Nefatli Soto could be a force at 3B with the bat, SS Zach Cozart reminds me a lot of Janish.

2008 Draft: Gordan Beckham would look good on the Reds at No. 7, but scouts are split as to whether he can stay at SS. He might move to 3B. Shooter Hunt of Tulane is a possibility, but he has some control issues and Krivsky doesn't take well to those types. I'm betting on either RHP Tanner Scheppers of Fresno State or RHP Tim Melville of Wentzville, Mo.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Apr 9, 2008 11:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Why don't you like Maloney as a SP?

I'm not too greatly familiar with him and never seen him pitch but he seems to be a bulldog from what I hear. I figured he must have his problems if he was expendable enough to deal him for a month of Lohse.

by kennythered on Apr 9, 2008 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sold on his off-speed stuff

being consistent enough to consistently get MLB hitters out. He tends to leave some pitches up and his curve can flatten out over the course of a game. Since he's not blessed with great velocity, either, I can see him being very effective in shorter stints. I think the Reds will use him as a starter until he proves he can't.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Apr 10, 2008 2:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

is he another phil dumatrait?

please say yes so i can forget about ever checking up on him again.

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Apr 10, 2008 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tonight from the Fay . . .

Todd Frazier hit another home run for Dayton tonight, his fourth. He and Brandon Waring have been tearing it up for the Dragons. Frazier had three hits tonight, Waring two. Frazier is hitting .476 with a 1.811 OPS. Waring is hitting .458 with a 1.411 OPS.

by Brian B on Apr 9, 2008 11:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

My big issue

I just do not want a bare system once these guys move up. I just have not been impressed with our guys drafted in the later rounds over the past two years and though there is some potential it still gives me flashbacks to having an awful injury riddled season near Bowden's end. I know its doom and gloom but look at the A's. One day its a top system the next its empty.

I also like the signing of Cordero but losing that 2nd rounder will not help us. Hopefully Cordero keeps up what he has done over the last few years and fulfills his contract with out any bumps but you never know.

by kennythered on Apr 9, 2008 11:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This year's draft--pipe dream

I'd like us to go way over slot and sign the 2008 version of Porcello.

by Red Menace on Apr 10, 2008 12:01 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure who that would be.

It seems like this year the top four, standout talents are pretty likely to go that high. Of course, that could change, but Alvarez is the only one I've heard about having huge bonus demands, and given his talent and proximity to the majors, I reckon somebody will give it to him.

by Geki on Apr 10, 2008 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that's already happened

with the $2M signing of Juan Duran. I have to think that money was spent in great part because the Reds don't have a second-round pick to pay this year.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Apr 10, 2008 2:47 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I absolutely agree

that's the way I read that move, and kudos to the Reds for making it.

I've got a plan and it's as hot as my pants...

by Man Mountain on Apr 10, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pitcher

I am thinking that would be our selection if the draft were today with Schepper being the most probable. But like last year when Meseraco came out of no where to be ranked as a 1st rounder, some one (or ones) will play their way into the top 10 as always happens. Still have two months to go before the draft.

As for the our minor leagues. This time last year, Cueto wasn't an elite prospect yet. He was still viewed as a couple of years away from competing for a spot in the majors. What a difference a year makes and we have plenty of guys at all levels who could have the same type of rise. We are very deep and is the main reason guys like Frazier & Waring started out 1 level lower than their talent suggested. They are blocked by other prospects (Franscisco, Valaika, Janish, ...etc). Third base looks to be our strongest position depth wise in the minors. I really could see Frazier moving to 3rd full time, Waring to first or a corner outfield spot, and Valaika to 2nd as they rise through the system. Janish is a SS and if he can get his bat even close to major league average, his defense will more than make up for his short comings at the plate. I'd love for his bat to develope to a Keppenger-esque level, but I think that may be a lot to much to expect. Time will tell. In the mean time, we get to watch another year of WK being too conservative with promoting prospects.

by Ron42 on Apr 10, 2008 10:46 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You underrated Kep's bat..

He's a career .320 hitter in the minors, no way Janish ever is close to that.

by homerun21 on Apr 10, 2008 4:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You want

I dont underestimate his bat, never have, never will, but the difference between his defensive range & abilities and Janish's is night and day. I'd rather have a superb defensive SS with a slightly below average bat over a guy with no range and a mediocre arm & great bat any day of the week. But thats just me. I love Kepp as much as the next guy, but his role more than likely will be as a super sub once everyone is healthy due to his inability to get to a lot of ground balls at SS.

by Ron42 on Apr 10, 2008 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

on a related note

im watching the pirates/cubs game and the cubs broadcasters started talking about the pirates upcoming schedule. its Volquez and Cueto this weekend, and they were marvelling at the success of our two young bucks. one went on to say that he spoke to a dude who was privvy to our shit and was told that not only do we have these two impressive young kids and Bailey in AAA, but a few studs in AA who could see time in Cincy this summer. just thought it would be nice to share that even troglodite Cubs announcers are taking notice.

Abraham Lincoln said that if you're a racist, I will invade you with the north.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Apr 10, 2008 8:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

AA

That reference to studs there must be the Lecure & Thompson as starters .. if they were referencing the pen, then I would have to guess Roenicki & Viola. You can also throw out the names of Watson (Who needs to be at AA IMO) & Fisher for future relievers. Its nice to see a lot of talent ... and thats just at the upper levels. We have another group behind those I just mentioned at High A & Low A showing a lot of promise.

by Ron42 on Apr 10, 2008 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting poll over at minorleagueball.com.

They've been polling their folks as to which player each team will pick in the draft. It was fairly cut and dried for the first six teams, but when it came to the Reds, there was a tie -- Gordan Beckham and Tim Melville each garnering 30 percent of the vote or 53 votes apiece.

In the runoff poll, the last I checked, Melville had a 53-47 percent edge from the voters.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Apr 12, 2008 12:50 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Beckham was the pick

in a very close vote.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Apr 13, 2008 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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