(Sic): Hatte would welcome a trade

by ken on Apr 28, 2008 11:12 AM EDT Comment 19 comments

So Fay writes in today's Enquirer, though Hatteberg's quote doesn't really say that: "First and foremost, I'd like to be here and help the team win. I play baseball to play."

Fay also claims that Hattteberg is ill-suited for a bench role, citing the fact that he's 0 for 7 as a PH this year (for his career, Hatteberg has hit 164/315/293 in 143 PAs as a PH). More interesting to me is Dusty's philosophy on PH: Manager Dusty Baker stressed to him that the only pitch a pinch-hitter gets to hit is oft times the first one. Hatteberg rarely swings at first pitches. "That flies in the face of the way I hit," he said. "This is my 13th year in the major leagues. I have a theory behind how I like to hit. I like to see a lot of pitches. Pinch-hitting isn't really conducive to that. I change my approach a little bit."

There may be marginal gains in swinging early as a PH, but I can't imagine they'd be enough to change someone's hitting approach.

HT to BBTF.

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Hey Dusty...

chill, bro.

I don't know how to paint a banana gourd to look like a Power Ranger.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Apr 28, 2008 11:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Damn Dusty and his first pitch swinging ways!

Then again, Dusty was a decent pinch hitter in his day: .258/.343/.363. No power, but that’s probably because the majority of his PH at bats came in the last 3 years of his career when he didn’t have much power left anyway.

You're drowning in the past, Mike, and I've got your life jacket right here. It's called the 80s and it's gonna be around forever.

by Slyde on Apr 28, 2008 11:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Here are the lines of some recent "successful" pinch hitters

Lenny Harris:
Career: .269/.318/.349
As a PH: 212 hits, .264/.317/.337

Mark Sweeney:
Career: .258/.350/.396
As a PH: 164 hits, .266/.359/.395

Orlando Palmeiro
Career line: .274/.351/.350
As a PH: 120 hits, .263/.337/.344

Not sure this is at all useful, but these are the first three names that popped into my head as players who are usually spoken of glowingly as pinch hitters. As you might expect, none of them are particularly good hitters, particularly as it concerns power. Harris is slightly below his career line as a starter, Palmeiro is considerably below, and Sweeney is actually a bit better.

Hatte’s career line as a PH .164/.315/.293 is terrible, but he’s about as good at not getting out in that situation as Lenny Harris – “one of the best” – was.

If I had the time and inclination, I’d look at P/PA vs. outcome for each of these dudes, but I doubt it’s worth it just to shed light on an old baseball saw that probably isn’t necessarily true or untrue.

I did find this article from 2 years ago in which Mariners hitting coach Habakkuk “Cast Iron” Pentland said

“When you come off the bench, the pitcher thinks your cold,” Pentland said. “That’s why they’ll see a lot of fastballs. Your best pinch-hitters are very aggressive fastball hitters. Generally speaking, the best pinch-hitters don’t let the first one go. They’re able to make good contact early. That’s a big key, so you don’t get into breaking ball counts.”

Brendon, there's nothing wrong with lying to women. Or the government. Or parents. Or God.

by Man Mountain on Apr 28, 2008 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess my point is

I bet the CW concerning pitch hitters is more a product of the kind of player you usually keep on an MLB bench as a pinch hitter, rather than the “art” of pinch hitting calling for a certain kind of approach.

Hitters like Harris and Palmeiro have the ability to hit major league fastballs and tend not to work counts or hit breaking balls well. Although Hatteberg is not a player like that, I imagine if he were allowed to bring his normal approach to a PH situation he’d be as successful as Sweeney.

Brendon, there's nothing wrong with lying to women. Or the government. Or parents. Or God.

by Man Mountain on Apr 28, 2008 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hatte, buddy you have gotten to the point in your carreer where:

You’re not great trade bait and apparantly no one out there sees you as a starter. So, go ahead and change your approach, learn to to PH – a a good PH is really sought after, always has been.

"I'm not a gearhead at all" Danica

by Madville on Apr 28, 2008 11:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Which is why

He should have been traded sometime before the season began – preferably at the deadline last year, when he was hitting the snot out of the ball.

Just as the best moves sometimes are the ones you don’t make, the same holds true for the worst moves.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Apr 28, 2008 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure why you would need to change your approach

as a pinch hitter. I suppose it has something to do with pinch hitters often coming in to face relief pitchers with men of base. These pitchers want to get ahead in the count, and maybe you are so concerned with running up their pitch count? But I still don’t get why what makes you a successful hitter in the first inning, doesn’t make you one in the eighth?

It sounds an awful lot like more of Baker’s 70s-80s received wisdom that doesn’t really bear scrutiny.

FWIW, MLBTradeRumors suggests that Seattle might be interested in a Hatte platoon with the sex machine, but that seems to be based on Richie’s poor RH splits more than actual interest.

Brendon, there's nothing wrong with lying to women. Or the government. Or parents. Or God.

by Man Mountain on Apr 28, 2008 11:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

*maybe you AREN'T so concerned

Brendon, there's nothing wrong with lying to women. Or the government. Or parents. Or God.

by Man Mountain on Apr 28, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would bet that conventional wisdom says...

..that as a pinch-hitter you’re coming in without having seen a pitch since pregame batting practice and the best thing for an opposing pitcher to do is try to “sneak” a fastball right by you.

I don’t know this to be true and I don’t know it even know it to be the coventional wisdom but it’s the kind of thing I can imagine Dusty nodding along with as Joe Morgan spongebathes his back.

I don't know how to paint a banana gourd to look like a Power Ranger.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Apr 28, 2008 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

see response to Slyde above

Brendon, there's nothing wrong with lying to women. Or the government. Or parents. Or God.

by Man Mountain on Apr 28, 2008 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trade him

If you don’t want to be here bye!

Norris Hopper's #1 fan!!!

by Zach K on Apr 28, 2008 3:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Did you RTFA?

heck, did you even read the first line of ken’s FanPost™?

You're drowning in the past, Mike, and I've got your life jacket right here. It's called the 80s and it's gonna be around forever.

by Slyde on Apr 28, 2008 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Laugh if you will

I can never remember how to get a™ to show up. What’s the code for it? And yes I know I’m lazy. :)

Please Note: I may be totally full of shit.

by jch24 on Apr 28, 2008 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay

That was funny. Never mind.

Please Note: I may be totally full of shit.

by jch24 on Apr 28, 2008 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

heh

I didn’t realize it did that. I’m shocked and awed.

You're drowning in the past, Mike, and I've got your life jacket right here. It's called the 80s and it's gonna be around forever.

by Slyde on Apr 28, 2008 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

something in your post...

it reminds me of brendan’s mom

and clerks 2

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on Apr 28, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ATM

we’re together again….

In the end, life and business are about human connections. And computers are about trying to murder you in a lake. And to me the choice is easy.

by chandrathan on Apr 28, 2008 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chill man

Norris Hopper's #1 fan!!!

by Zach K on Apr 28, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Deal Hatte for Laird

Rangers need help until Hank Blalock comes back. Gerard Laird has to be better than Bako/Valentin and Ross combined. Let’s package Ross and Hatteberg for Laird.

True happiness is best shared.

by LastRites on Apr 29, 2008 5:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs