Sunday Game Thread: Reds at Rays
I'm on a road trip today, but I wanted to throw up this all important game thread first. It's the Reds vs. the Rays:

vs

Here's your Reds lineup (from CTR):
Freel cf
Hopper lf
Bruce rf
Votto 1b
Cabrera 3b
Keppinger ss
Kroski c
Castro 2b
Hanigan dh
Belisle p
Other pitchers on the travel roster
Adkins
Fogg
McBeth
Pelland
Ramirez
Roenicke
Salmon
Sauerbeck
Thompson
Today's game thread also includes a pop quiz. Please state at least ten ways in which Paul Daugherty is wrong. You have 30 minutes. I have extra blue books at my desk if you run out of room.
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96 comments
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First..
by snohio on
Mar 9, 2008 11:11 AM EDT
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Be honest
by Brendanukkah on
Mar 9, 2008 11:54 AM EDT
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Here's one..
How Baker runs a game strategically is far less important than what he is able to pull from his employees, 162 times a summer.
Summer starts June 20th and ends September 22nd which is 93 days. Hard to play 162 games in 93 days.
And with any luck maybe we could shoot for playing more than 162 games this year? How about 165 at least. (Yes that means being swept in the playoffs, but come on even that would take some luck..)
by snohio on
Mar 9, 2008 12:12 PM EDT
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RE: 93 days of summer
by Fat Vegas Alan on
Mar 9, 2008 12:15 PM EDT
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Your right..
What does the sound of a baseball hitting turf sound like in front of an outfielder?
by snohio on
Mar 9, 2008 12:17 PM EDT
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gameday?
by boobs on
Mar 9, 2008 12:34 PM EDT
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here
by gejoe on
Mar 9, 2008 1:10 PM EDT
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Daugherty
Re: Blanton and W-L record
Daugherty would trade both Bailey and Votto for Blanton, and cares only about the W-L record of the pitcher in question.
Blanton was 14-10 in 34 starts.
Bailey was 4-2 in 9 Starts. If he got 34 starts, Daugherty logic dicatates his record would be 15-8, which is way better than 14-10. Bailey, again, by Daugherty logic, pitched way better than Blanton last year. Why would he trade Bailey PLUS another guy for Blanton, when Bailey had a better record last year?
So, although he states the opposite conclusion, he really just proved that W-L record is a stupid way to evaluate pitchers. And, um, I really hate to break this to him, but sabermetrics has been screaming this for a long, long time.
by BLee2525 on
Mar 9, 2008 1:00 PM EDT
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I'm really really really hung-over.
by justin0070000 on
Mar 9, 2008 1:03 PM EDT
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My email to Daugherty
"Hey Paul, here's another stat for you (don't worry, it's a simple one):
World Series Rings: Bill James 2; Dusty Baker 1
JD Arney"
by JD Arney on
Mar 9, 2008 1:13 PM EDT
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Can't pick up WLW
by gejoe on
Mar 9, 2008 1:17 PM EDT
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Has Doc ever read a Bill James abstract?
James writes about his subject in an incredibly approachable manner. It was his best gift as a writer. He was a populizer, along the lines of Carl Sagan (here's a recent taste of James). Nothing is farther from the truth than claiming his writing made baseball sound like biomechanical engineering, rocket science, brain surgery or any other frighteningly-complicated-thingy.
by Red Menace on
Mar 9, 2008 1:44 PM EDT
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that cant be true
by boobs on
Mar 9, 2008 1:54 PM EDT
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I get the feeling...
I mean, he's belittling "anyone with a library card" and yet admits that he's astounded by a baby boomer's ability to remember Van Morrison lyrics.
When you get right down to it, Doc's column is the equivalent of a bully shoving a kid down on the sidewalk because he's carrying home an arm load of... books.
by Fat Vegas Alan on
Mar 9, 2008 2:01 PM EDT
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what's with the hate for
I mean, maybe Bill James makes them sound alike in that they are both beautiful and can save thousands of lives.
Also, perhaps they are both things that are too complicated for Daugherty to hope to understand
by andromache on
Mar 9, 2008 6:37 PM EDT
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we r kucking their ass
by boobs on
Mar 9, 2008 2:02 PM EDT
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Well, shite.
by Fat Vegas Alan on
Mar 9, 2008 2:07 PM EDT
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Paul Daugherty, the apostle of Cincy baseball
"The best thing about Baker is that from all accounts, it's important to him to know his players individually: what jazzes them, what scares them, the situations that best suit their talents and temperaments. Contrary to the notions of the seamheads and stat freaks, players are not numbers.
"Managing" means exactly what it says: the ability to manage people. How Baker runs a game strategically is far less important than what he is able to pull from his employees.."
True, and yet not so true.
True: a manager has to know how to motivate players and get the best out of them. I hope Dusty can do a better long term job than Dave Miley, Jerry Narron, or Bob Boone. I actually think Pete Mackanin did an ok job of handling the team in his brief tenure.
Not so true: Their statistics are what makes them what they are. Dusty like Corey Patterson; why not let him bat clean-up? Or Ryan Freel; he hustles and is scrappy. Why not? Really.
Damn, those statistics again! It would seem a "better choice", using those statistics, that Ken Griffey, Adam Dunn or Brandon Phillips would make a better clean-up hitter. Why?
So by selectively using the numbers that he likes, Dusty doesn't quite manage by "the seat of his pants", as the Apostle Paul would indicate.
The fact is (fact!) that baseball IS a game of numbers and statistics. More than just about any other sport. The numbers tell the story. They will write the story; which kind of eliminates the need for the silly make-believe fervor that the Apostle Paul of Cincy would like us all to read and believe.
Yes, Dusty has "won" 1162 games, all without his players.
Fact: you need players, good players, to win consistently in baseball
Fact: you judge the players by their statistics
Fact: If you are too stupid to understand the statistics, Paul, perhaps you could get a job writing about TV or movies or other artistic endeavors, something so subjective that no one will notice your lack on intelligence when it comes to understanding numbers.
I filled my blue book, and now I'm done.
Thank you for not smoking; except for Cool God, who can do whatever He wants.
by Lonesome George on
Mar 9, 2008 2:15 PM EDT
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Annnnd...
by Fat Vegas Alan on
Mar 9, 2008 2:30 PM EDT
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I'll give it a go.
It's also one called "See Spot Run". Shut it, Doc.
The other day, the Reds manager decided he wanted Joey Votto and Adam Dunn to swing their bats more. "I don't like called third strikes," Baker said.
Adam Dunn wasn't even mentioned by Dusty, actually, and Dusty kinda skirted around the question when specifically asked by Fay about Dunn. We get it, Paul. You hate Adam Dunn. Probably because Adam Dunn is far more intelligent, makes far more money, is significantly better looking, and could beat your moronic ass any time he pleased. But he won't, because he's not an assclown like you.
Can we get an Amen?
Nope!
It always amuses when fans defend heart-of-the-order hitters by pointing to their on-base percentage. Wow, look at all those walks.
Not as much as it amuses when idiot sportswriters think they actually know something about baseball. Another thinly veiled shot at Dunn, though. Good to see you've got your journalistic integrity and don't hold stupid vendettas, Paul.
Unless they're intentional walks, or the big boppers are being pitched around, walks aren't what you want from players hitting third through sixth. You want them up there smart-hacking.
Smart-hacking is an oxymoron. You're just a regular moron.
As Baker said: "(Votto) needs to swing more. I'd like to see him more aggressive."
By-the-book managing is for men who aren't confident in their ability to read players and situations. It's for managers who don't know their players' personalities. It's what you do so you can say later, after it backfires: "Don't blame me. I went by the book."
And by the head-book managing results in Juan Castro pinch-hitting for Josh Hamilton. I'll take excuses over outright failures.
The best thing about Baker is that from all accounts, it's important to him to know his players individually: what jazzes them, what scares them, the situations that best suit their talents and temperaments. Contrary to the notions of the seamheads and stat freaks, players are not numbers.
Rather a seamhead than a Dustafarian, hot stuff.
"Managing" means exactly what it says: the ability to manage people. How Baker runs a game strategically is far less important than what he is able to pull from his employees, 162 times a summer.
The first possibly accurate thing you've said in this article. Of course, if you're pulling from Norris Hopper and Corey Patterson and Jeremy Affeldt and Scott Hatteberg over Jay Bruce and Homer Bailey and Joey Votto, you're doing more damage than good. Even if you pull the absolute best that Juan Castro can give you out of Juan Castro, Juan Castro is going to be a crappy baseball player. Statistics and common sense dictate this. If you pull the best you can out of Jay Bruce, then you're actually doing something.
Anyone with a laptop can locate the Web site baseball- reference.com and sound like an expert. Anyone with a library card can pick up one of James' mind-numbing baseball "abstracts," in which the author makes the game sound like a first cousin to biomechanical engineering.
Maybe you should try that "sounding like an expert" thing, because right now you "sound like a fucktard".
It ain't that scientific.
The NFL does the same thing, in a different fashion. To convince you that pro football is actually a 17-week MENSA convention, The League whips out its 800-page playbooks and offers up oh-so-serious coaches who work 20 hours a day and act as if their jobs involve brain surgery and a red telephone.
Possibly, it's less complex. Block. Tackle. Win.
Brilliant! "Alright, offensive linemen go ahead and block. Linebackers, you go ahead and try to tackle the guy with the ball. Victory is assured. Assured!
Baseball's cerebral side involves numbers. While I believe in baseball-card wisdom - you are who the back of your card says you are - it's just a little piece of the whole. When some of us (OK, me mostly) advocated dealing, say, Votto and Homer Bailey for Oakland pitcher Joe Blanton, the Statboys came out flame-throwing numbers:
Blanton's a creation of his spacious home ballpark! Look at his ERA, home and away! Blanton's a flyball pitcher! Check out his ratio of groundballs to flies!
If you shot back that Blanton has won 42 times in the last three years - and that he went 7-5 at home last year and 7-5 on the road - if you suggested that no number matters but Games Won, you were dismissed as an illiterate.
No number matters but games won? I...what...what?
(Actually, maybe Blanton won as many on the road as at home, even with a much higher road ERA, because Oakland's hitters worked under the same conditions as their pitcher. Allow more runs, score more runs. And factually, flyball man Blanton gave up only 16 home runs in 230 innings last year. But never mind.)
Take out the exceptional condescension and you're starting to formulate a real argument as to why the Reds should trade for Joe Blanton. That's not a "never mind".
Numbers are fun to look at but dangerous to dwell on. Baker understands this. If Dunn walks 30 fewer times this year, he'll drive in 15 more runs. His on-base percentage will dip. Oh, no.
And if the batters in front of Dunn walk 30 more times, he'll probably drive in quite a few more runs as well. Ba-pow!
If Votto takes fewer first-pitch strikes, his run production will improve.
Joey Votto has never had a problem with run production! He struck out once -- once -- looking in a spring training game, Dusty commented on it, and you based an entire ridiculous article on it (and probably four hours on your unlistenable radio show).
And so on. Here's a stat: Wins as manager: Dusty Baker, 1,162; Bill James, 0.
Oh yeah? Here's another one. Losses as manager: Dusty Baker, 1041; Bill James, 0. And I got those numbers from baseball-reference.com. I'm not gonna lie, I feel like a fucking expert right now. Shit yeah.
by Geki on
Mar 9, 2008 2:48 PM EDT
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Fogg stays in for his third inning.
(Fogg gets it done 1-2-3.)
by Fat Vegas Alan on
Mar 9, 2008 2:59 PM EDT
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Oh the Fay.
Either Dusty is creepy or the Fay doesn't deserve his job.
by Geki on
Mar 9, 2008 3:02 PM EDT
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Fay
by Brian B on
Mar 9, 2008 8:05 PM EDT
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my shot at the Doc:
pencils down.
by Charlie Scrabbles on
Mar 9, 2008 3:08 PM EDT
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Heres mine
by The Crushinator on
Mar 9, 2008 3:15 PM EDT
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thompson
by Charlie Scrabbles on
Mar 9, 2008 3:24 PM EDT
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John Erardi
Run Differential
Step 1: The Formula
Step 2: The Sliding Scale
Step 3: How to Get There
Step 3a: The Bullpen
Step 4: The Offense
Step 4a: The Encarnacion Factor
Step 5: The Bottom Line
This is great stuff. Definitely worth a read. It's basic enough that you don't need a 300-level sabermetrics education to understand it, and in-depth enough that the Slydes of the world won't be bored. Can somebody please email this to Daugherty? I get the feeling he has me on "ignore."
by BLee2525 on
Mar 9, 2008 3:25 PM EDT
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Wow
by Brendanukkah on
Mar 9, 2008 4:17 PM EDT
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How can
Like stupid (St Paul) and anti-stupid (John Erardi)?
Really, in a few short essays, Erardi nails it completely. And he didn't have to show off with any really fancy statistics.
- How do the Reds get to the point of giving up fewer runs? (Question: Does the addition of Joe Blanton really help the situation, looking at those crazy sabremetric statistics? Maybe not, huh?)
- How do we get more run production? Which is why some of us questioned trading Josh Hamilton for Edinson Volquez. Volquez may indeed SOME DAY be a fine pitcher, but losing Hamilton puts a big donut hole in the offense. Especially if Dusty insists on playing the menage au trois of Freel/Hopper/Patterson in CF.
by Lonesome George on
Mar 9, 2008 4:47 PM EDT
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Just popping in to say "hi"
Just wanted to point out that I helped Erardi on the article again, but the majority of the thought and math work was done by Greg Gajus (Greg in Atl here on RR). It's not as obvious in the online version as it is in the print version.
I'm not bringing this up to toot my own horn (if I could do that I'd never leave the house - oh wait, I don't ever leave the house). I'm bringing it up to praise Erardi for his willingness to look outside of the traditional train of thought and try to do something more than the crap that Doc spews. The fact that he's willing to admit that he isn't an expert, but still wants to explore the concept is a breath of fresh air. I wish that Erardi got more pub at the Enquirer, but I get the impression that his bosses aren't as into the stat side of things as he is. Hopefully that will continue to evolve.
by Slyde on
Mar 9, 2008 4:41 PM EDT
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also
by Slyde on
Mar 9, 2008 4:44 PM EDT
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Hmmmm...
by BubbaFan on
Mar 9, 2008 4:52 PM EDT
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What are your thoughts on Bubba
by Geki on
Mar 9, 2008 5:04 PM EDT
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I'm really bummed, of course
by BubbaFan on
Mar 9, 2008 5:49 PM EDT
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do you think...
by andromache on
Mar 9, 2008 7:00 PM EDT
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absolutely
by Slyde on
Mar 9, 2008 9:37 PM EDT
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at my newspaper
Here are the numbers at the Enquirer:
Assistant Managing Editor/Sports, Josh Pichler: (513) 768-8437
Assistant Sports Editor/Online, Tim Curtis: (513) 768-8055.
If you call the sports editor, I would suggest telling him how much you enjoyed Erardi's work and how thoughtful/thought provoking it is, and not just screaming that Doc is an asshat. Editors are usually very protective of the writers, and you'll get nowhere fast if you try to convince them that the writers are idiots. Maybe politely draw a contrast, but no more than that.
You can also hit up John Erardi to thank him here: (513) 768-8446.
by boobs on
Mar 9, 2008 10:25 PM EDT
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This is good
by Slyde on
Mar 10, 2008 9:11 AM EDT
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I emailed and called
Just the tip, though.
by Man Mountain on
Mar 10, 2008 9:29 AM EDT
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Figures!
by Lonesome George on
Mar 9, 2008 4:49 PM EDT
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Heh, no
by Slyde on
Mar 9, 2008 9:44 PM EDT
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I really enjoyed Erardi's pieces
The movement in a lot of ways is an upheaval of the appeals to top-down authority such as Daughery's column. It's important to advance the method of thinking rather than a new authority.
by Red Menace on
Mar 9, 2008 5:12 PM EDT
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Agreed
by Slyde on
Mar 9, 2008 9:42 PM EDT
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And there you go.
Having been a sports writer who covered everything from Frisbee golf to MLB, I wasn't an expert on all of it. No writer can be the well of all knowledge on every subject he covers. That's why as a writer/reporter you seek people who are experts.
When I covered college football, I knew the team very well. I didn't know as much as the coordinators, though. It wasn't hard for me to recognize that if you have Chad Pennington and Randy Moss on the roster, then quite often you have No. 10 throw the ball deep to No. 88. Understanding exactly what made that work, though, meant digging deeper into the minds of those who knew more about football than did I. It was quite fun, actually.
Doc has some points about managing. Motivating people is a great part of it. Knowing how to get players to respond -- who needs the pat on the head and who needs the kick in the rear -- is a real part of sports. Can it be measured statistically? Who cares? To portray the sabermetrics crowd as a bunch of geeky goobers, though, I can't fathom that. There isn't a statistic to measure everything, but the numbers are darned important in the decision making process in so many ways, from in-game management to whom to acquire in the off season.
Heck, I'm preaching to the choir, here.
by Thundering Turtle on
Mar 9, 2008 6:21 PM EDT
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The big problem I have with Doc
by Slyde on
Mar 9, 2008 9:38 PM EDT
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Darryl Thompson
by TheC on
Mar 9, 2008 3:28 PM EDT
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Now if some offense could be managed.
by Fat Vegas Alan on
Mar 9, 2008 3:43 PM EDT
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I hope to see Roenicke pitching the ninth
by The Crushinator on
Mar 9, 2008 3:48 PM EDT
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It's over.
Reds win!
by Fat Vegas Alan on
Mar 9, 2008 3:56 PM EDT
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Wow. 5 Tampa errors.
by Fat Vegas Alan on
Mar 9, 2008 3:59 PM EDT
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Geki says it all:
by Madville on
Mar 9, 2008 4:23 PM EDT
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PAUL EMAILED ME BACK!!!!!
by The Crushinator on
Mar 9, 2008 4:24 PM EDT
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what did he say?
by BubbaFan on
Mar 9, 2008 4:34 PM EDT
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He said if I know so much I guess i should be
by The Crushinator on
Mar 9, 2008 5:29 PM EDT
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Wow
by BubbaFan on
Mar 9, 2008 5:43 PM EDT
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Rather the opposite of think, I think
by Brendanukkah on
Mar 9, 2008 5:49 PM EDT
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I just sent back a "hell yeah
by The Crushinator on
Mar 9, 2008 5:58 PM EDT
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wow
Why does he hate statistics so much? Yeah statistics aren't everything, but there isn't a better way to objectively judge a players worth. If we went by what I saw, I guess Harang is a bad pitcher, I have seen him pitch in person on 5 occasions (I go to atleast 6 games but I always miss him) , he was roughed up 4 times. But Brandon Claussen is great, I saw him pitch twice, and he won both times, pitching a combined 13 innings and giving up 3 runs.
by justin0070000 on
Mar 9, 2008 6:05 PM EDT
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What did Claussen sound like?
He was just so....GOOD?
Anecdotal reporting should always trump the seasonal or career stats of any player or pitcher. That's the basic reporter's way of analyzing anything.
"Numbers? Numbers? We don't need no stinkin' numbers!" - Paul "Gringo" Daugherty
by Lonesome George on
Mar 9, 2008 6:27 PM EDT
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RE: hating stats
i would liken "old-school" baseball to fundementalist religions. the argument is that validity stems not from logic and reason, but from "faith" or "gut-feeling" or, as has been recently posited, "Dusty's ears". so when science attempts to explain such phenomena as prayer or God or what-have-you, the excerise is fundementally flawed. you cant explain God with science. its the same way with "old-school" baseball. in old times, players were evaluated with ethereal metrics like "speed" or "heart" or "hustle" or "power". but then stat-heads came along and attempted to explain it in a new way, using logic and reason and hard science. to the old-school baseball dude, this is akin to heresy.
now, i realize this might be construed as inflamatory to someone of faith, but please rest assured i mean no malice. in equating the argument between new-school baseball (which is right) and old-school baseball (which is wrong) to the argument between science and faith, im drawing now normative conclusions, merely metaphysical ones. its the nature of the argument im equating, not the validity.

by Charlie Scrabbles on
Mar 9, 2008 6:37 PM EDT
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that should read
by Charlie Scrabbles on
Mar 9, 2008 6:38 PM EDT
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I've been thinking about this a lot lately
The classic line of attack on sabermetrics--that we don't watch games or don't enjoy the crackofthebat aesthetics--is essentially the unweaving the rainbow argument, that when science explains a phenomenon it robs it of it's beauty and wonder; that scientists are cold, passionless people.
by Red Menace on
Mar 9, 2008 6:58 PM EDT
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related
*I want to point out that I got these statistics from the Bill James Website. I would also like to take a moment to say something about my friend Bill, something that he probably would not want me to say. But every couple of weeks, it seems I will see yet another person throw Bill out there as the essence of statistical evils and pajama-wearing baseball geekdom. It makes makes me pretty ill. True, part if it is because we are friends, but a much larger part is that if you read Bill's work at all, if you look at his theories with anything resembling an open mind, if you consider at all what he's getting at ... you realize that the man LOVES baseball. I mean loves baseball, loves the game, loves the stories, loves the characters, loves the ins and outs of strategy, loves the moments, loves trying to figure out why things happen, and why so many people buy into stuff that is probably nonsense. I don't mind people saying that Bill is full of crap -- hell, we ALL have to deal with that (and Bill is never shy about saying that someone else is full of crap, including me). But the people who try to make it sound like Bill's love and understanding of baseball are wrapped up in obscure mathematics and unworkable thoughts and cold data just don't get it at all.
The post also has some great stuff about Aaron Harang.
http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/03/09/statheads-and-true-wins/
by Red Menace on
Mar 9, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
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Joe Posnanski is amazing.
by Geki on
Mar 9, 2008 8:02 PM EDT
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2008 Team Preview
http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2008/03/09/the-2008-cincinnati-reds-high-risk-high-reward/
by ET90210 on
Mar 9, 2008 4:34 PM EDT
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Did anybody e-mail Paul's article to FJM?
by Geki on
Mar 9, 2008 4:48 PM EDT
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Daugherty
by BLee2525 on
Mar 9, 2008 6:17 PM EDT
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And it is glorious.
Kudos to whoever sent it to them, considering there's a good chance it's an RR. And Geki's version was pretty good too.
by BK on
Mar 9, 2008 6:37 PM EDT
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I wish I could erase my memory
by The Crushinator on
Mar 9, 2008 7:36 PM EDT
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Don't get too upset, I guess
In the Enquirer's case, they're mostly very conservative, totally averse to risk or change, and hate nerds.
So, I can imagine he probably looks at a set of issues, says "what can I write about today that's gonna get the bubbas saying "you tell em paul"" then puts pen to paper.
Check his blog. He's saying that the cold snap is proof that there is no such thing as global warming. Yep.
by bobestes on
Mar 9, 2008 8:21 PM EDT
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Appearing on WLW
Great thread. I've been invited to appear on WLW tomorrow around 7P to discuss Erardi's article. Please post or send me any (preferably Reds related) examples that might help illustrate some of the basics. I definitely want to try to work in park effects, the absurdity of pitcher wins as a measure of quality, and of course, the value of walks and OBA. I'd also really love a good analogy to make the point of how silly it is to ignore stats ("like running a radio station without looking at the ratings" is the best I have now, but would love ideas you all have).
Thanks,
by Greg in Atl on
Mar 9, 2008 9:45 PM EDT
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Congrats, this should be fun.
You should bring up BLee's latest Fun With Numbers and specifically Dunn's RBI percentage, though. Yeah.
by Geki on
Mar 9, 2008 9:54 PM EDT
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The problem is
"It's the middle of the order's job to drive in runs, not walk."
Answer: "It's everybody's job to score runs. And the best way to do that is for everyone to try to not make outs."
etc
by Red Menace on
Mar 9, 2008 11:52 PM EDT
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Good luck, Greg!
by Slyde on
Mar 9, 2008 9:56 PM EDT
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Talk to Slyde
daugherty: you live in your mom's basement. I win.
by bobestes on
Mar 9, 2008 10:30 PM EDT
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I think you might....
Unless you can't resist (or avoid) your WLW appearnce becoming a crossfire of points and counterpoints, you might try to convey that there are universally acknowledged simple "counting stats" that do an okay job of putting a value on a player's past body of work but do not necessarily do the best job at predicting future performance. I really like the aforementioned column by Joe Posnaski. He's being honest and earnest about how every fan has their own way to appreciate the game but he's perhaps not 100% free of left-handed compliments:
"I think to a large degree it's great and romantic to watch baseball your whole life the way you watch it when you are 12 years old. You don't have to study baseball to enjoy it; you don't have to strive for a deeper understanding to appreciate the game.
I think this might be Joe's thanking dear old Dad for teaching his ten middle school son the undeniable humor of a well-timed fart, while acknowledging that in later years when the boy starts meeting and hanging with some cool ninth-graders he might discover Life of Brian and unfortunately, Dad just might not get it.
by Fat Vegas Alan on
Mar 9, 2008 11:59 PM EDT
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I was looking at Bakers record
by justin0070000 on
Mar 9, 2008 10:12 PM EDT
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All that said ...
by Billingsfan on
Mar 9, 2008 10:20 PM EDT
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his ability to seduce his starting pitcher?
by justin0070000 on
Mar 9, 2008 10:31 PM EDT
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Of course
I'm all for Dusty being a rah-rah, motivate your players kind of manager. And I don't discount that he has good qualities as a manager. He has lots of success on his record, though I don't give him overriding credit for that as Daugherty seems to (I mean, Dusty did just happen to manage one of the greatest offensive players the game has ever seen). But I do believe that much of what I've heard talk about strategy-wise is flat wrong.
Does that mean that he can't be successful? No, but it doesn't help a team that will need everything to go right in order to be competitive this year.
by Slyde on
Mar 9, 2008 10:53 PM EDT
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actually
Tomorrow I'll try going to a Starbucks. Those people are usually pretty friendly and I might get a little back and forth conversation in.
by Red Menace on
Mar 9, 2008 11:56 PM EDT
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You might try this:
by Man Mountain on
Mar 10, 2008 9:31 AM EDT
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I have read Bill James ...
But I took comfort in the fact the Dusty has a psychic presence on the team that gives them reason to try harder, as Belisle did today. Sort of reminded me of Jack Nicholson in the Departed, except that he didn't whack his pitching arm with a work boot.
by Billingsfan on
Mar 10, 2008 11:29 AM EDT
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