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Feather-Beard Cut From Cards

Just saw the story on SportsCenter... Looks like Scott Spiezio and his creepy goatee are no longer a part of the St. Louis Cardinals organization. Apparently he was cut after California police issued a 6 count warrant for his arrest stemming from a car crash. Apparently the max prison term he faces is 2 years.

I don't know about you guys, but I'm really starting to get sick of baseball and crime being so interrelated. I think that the MLB needs to devise some sort of system. Just take the Cardinals for instance: In the past year alone, the Cards have had three instances of players or their manager driving under the influence... Tony Larussa, Josh Hancock, who was sadly killed, and now Spiezio. If something like this happened in the NCAA, the team would almost certainly be sanctioned...

I think that in events like this, especially with repeat offenses, teams need to start getting penalized. I don't care if it's monetary or something along the lines of draft picks, but something needs to be done. These people need to realize that even though they are celebrities, they also are icons and role models.

Sorry if this came across as a rant, but I'm really getting sick of this...

Poll
Should the MLB impose punishments on teams/players due to crimes?
  • Yes
  • No
  • Boobs

  26 votes | Results

0 recs | Comment 25 comments

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Sad...
...but also kinda funny.

Spiezio Wanted By Police

...Spiezio was seen consuming several vodka drinks at a bar in nearby Newport Beach, Calif., and then driving away in his 2004 BMW. Witnesses saw his car speeding, cutting across lanes and crossing into oncoming traffic before driving over a curb and crashing into a fence at Campus and Carlson avenues, a short distance from his condominium.

Other witnesses saw a man they identified as Spiezio get out of the car and run. Police officers who arrived at the scene found the car, with both of its front tires blown, and verified it was Spiezio's.

Spiezio allegedly went from the crash site to his condo complex, where a friend noticed that he was disheveled and apparently injured. The friend brought Spiezio into the friend's apartment and tried to clean him up, then Spiezio vomited inside the condo, police said.

When the friend said something about the vomit, Spiezio allegedly became angry and attacked the man, "punching him repeatedly and then throwing him against a wall," according to a statement by the Orange County district attorney's office.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 27, 2008 10:00 PM EST   0 recs

id like to see the witness report
police officer: mam can you tell me what he looked like?
woman:uhhhhh im not sure what he was wearing but he had a bright read beard

"Herein is love, not that we loved God but that He loved us" -1 John 4:10

by shortstopv2 on Feb 28, 2008 2:04 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

*red
yes we all know i cant spell
"Herein is love, not that we loved God but that He loved us" -1 John 4:10

by shortstopv2 on Feb 28, 2008 2:05 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Definite no.
At least from a team standpoint. You don't fine a company when an employee goes out and gets a DUI after he got wasted on a Saturday night, and baseball teams are ultimately companies. It's not their responsibility to babysit their players, especially in December. I'd be more supportive of the league suspending or fining players for off the field issues, but I'd still be opposed to that (suspensions, at least, I'd be okay with fines) because I think a clear line needs to be drawn between what happens on the field and what happens off the field. At the same time, a player getting arrested does reflect poorly on a team and MLB as a whole, so I wouldn't have any problem with hefty fines being handed out. When you get into the season-long suspensions ala Pacman Jones and the NFL, I think you're going too far, though.

Simply put, crime and baseball are interrelated because baseball teams are full of human beings and not robots. People get arrested, it happens, and MLB doesn't have nearly the amount of off the field problems (steroids excluded) you see in the other major sports or even college sports.

As for Spiezio, he was out for a while last year with a substance abuse issue and was arrested on counts of both driving under the influence and driving with a BAC of greater than .08, which leads me to believe the first one is related to his drug of choice (whichever one led to him missing time last year). I heard rumblings that it was heroin, but that may have just been conjecture. Either way, he seems to have a bit more of a problem than just drinking and driving. But I'm glad I won't have to see his god-awful facial hair anymore.

by Geki on Feb 27, 2008 10:24 PM EST   0 recs

Thinking aloud...
Definite no - I agree on that part, but I don't agree with fines.  What people do on their own personal time is none of a company's business unless it starts to affect their performance at work.  When their problems do start to affect their performance, you tell them to get help or get out, not make the problem worse for them by fining them or firing them.  People have already handed over enough control of their lives to the corporations who employ them.  It's like we have two sets of laws to follow - those of the government and those of our employers.  Why should we get punished twice?

Now, obviously work performance is affected by having to miss work to sit in jail or to be in court.  But we all need personal days at work, even those of us who get whole winters or summers off.  Spiezio was hitting .269/.354/.386 last year, in the ballpark of his career average .255/.329/.419 when he went to rehab.  Was his work performance affected by his drug use?  It certainly was when he left the team, but the Cardinals didn't pay him for those days he missed and had adequate replacement for him.  We're human beings - our problems are a vast universe in variety, but we are united in the fact that we all have problems.  Spiezio was drinking and crashing on his personal time.  Let him have his day in court.  If he goes to jail, you can cut him then because you need to fill that roster spot.  

Inevitably, when stories come out like this, there are some people (I'm not referring to anyone specific, just a general type) who like to condemn men like Spiezio and Josh Hamilton for choosing to take drugs and whatnot while they pat themselves on the back for being "good" people who always make the right and moral decisions.  Yet so many of these "moral" people will buy clothing made in a sweatshop or support their leaders in war and torture or cheat "a little" on their taxes or steal one of the fish salt shakers from Red Lobster or talk on their cell phones while driving though it is against the law (and studies have shown it is akin to driving under the influence).  Morals my ass.  Just because one can't see the effects his decisions have on other human beings doesn't make him a better person than one who has chosen to take drugs.  

No one "chooses" to become an addict.  The Nancy Reagans of the world have done wonders to make sure the populace thinks "drugs are evil" and that everyone who uses becomes an addict, and when people like Spiezio and Hancock wreck their lives, it just reinforces their beliefs.  They don't realize they come into contact with people who use drugs on a daily basis.  And how many times have we here watched baseball games while drinking too much beer?  

I guess what I'm trying to say in my long-winded kind of way is 1) that the use of the word criminal in the same sentence as addict makes me sad and 2) let the justice system run its course.

by Daedalus on Feb 28, 2008 12:06 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

WUmm Sis...
When an employee's behavior is so heinous that it affects the reputation of the company then it does  become the company's business.And as far as choosing to become an addict, most people don't but some do. After many years on the road in the music biz, I can tell you that there are people out there who do make a conscious choice to use drugs and they know that they are or will soon be addicted. They just don't care.

E.G. - I choose to be addicted to RR.

"I'm trying to be a wine dude," Dustball Baker

by Madville on Feb 28, 2008 12:41 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

more wondering aloud...
company reputation - something to consider.  

while you wouldn't want your accounting firm to be known for its coke abusing, womanizing jerks, the entertainment industry isn't really affected by such jerks.  people have come to expect entertainers (rock stars, writers, movie stars, athletes, etc) to have such behavior.  (i'm not saying that's right or wrong.)  what's more, people aren't going to turn away from MLB, NFL, etc because of the off field antics of its people.  if that were true, the nfl would be going bankrupt right now instead of being the most popular sport in the u.s. of a.

yeah, rock stars are you know, sex, drugs, rock n roll, but the guy in your cubicle next door is using coke to keep himself alert or the woman at the reception desk of your cable company is addicted to painkillers after that accident she had five years ago or that law student is pumped up on whatever pills he can get his hands on to stay awake three nights in a row to study so he can get get into that glorious boston firm.    

we live in a society that tells us to do anything to get ahead, that we're lazy if we aren't as successful as the next person.  is it any wonder that people resort to chemical means when their bodies can't naturally produce enough to push them to the top?  our society is also one that believes taking a pill can make all problems disappear, whether it be for weightloss, depression, stress, etc.  those two things are a disastrous combo even when you're not in the spotlight of the media vampires.  Alcohol and drug abuse (including steroids) in baseball is not a baseball problem, it's a societal problem.  It's just as common in the corporate world, but guys in ties aren't as glamorous as our Romanesque sports heroes, so we tend to ignore it, not know about it, or not care.

another thing is that spiezio was cut for his alcohol/drug problems because he is not a star.  if pujols had done the exact same thing, he'd still be on the team.

but how is a company's reputation really affected if one of its employees gets a DUI?  Are you (the general you) going to boycott H&R Block because one of their employees got arrested for possession?  Or will you stop watching 24 because Kiefer Sutherland spent 48 days in jail this winter for his fourth DUI?  I'm wondering - when people have to ask whether or not a company should do something about an employee's personal problems, have we lost so much control over our lives that we're willing to look at our employers as our masters, or does it have to do with the moralists wanting to punish the sinners, or can we not see our humanity through the plastic, Made in China trees, or is our justice system so hopelessly broken that we don't trust it to right the wrongs, or what is it?  Why do we have to ask these questions?  (Not pointing at you, crolfer, or anyone else.  I'm asking these questions myself.) Why do we let "company reputation" dictate what we can and cannot do?  Why do we care if our accounting firm is full of coke abusing, womanizing jerks if they do a great job at accounting?  Why is it any of our business?  Aren't we supposed to be a nation of individuals who worship our privacy?  

People get fired for DUI, and it isn't right.  Shouldn't a company's reputation be elevated for helping its employees through their problems instead of firing them for being human and making mistakes?

Sincerely,

Still naive at 31

by Daedalus on Feb 28, 2008 1:58 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

i agree
with everything.  naive?  no.  this is something alcholics call a "moment of clarity".  

and might i add that "fines" are the absolute worst way to punish a rich person.  i tell you, it aint even punishment at all.  its just a sick inside joke among all these rich assholes where they say, "hey did you do something wrong? ok, well just hand over some of that disposable income.  that'll make the Vulgar (that's what they call us) think we actually give a shit that you messed up."  and then they all go out and share a gold-plated beer.  only they dont share.  because they all own their own gold-plated breweries.

is it April yet?

by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 29, 2008 9:20 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Agree
To bring it back to sports, the Trail Blazers' attendance dropped substantially once the DUIs and possession charges started to add up.  Employers have a right to maintain their public reputation.  If they think they can do it by fining employees for various transgressions, they should.  If the employees don't like it, they can go elsewhere.  

by ken on Feb 28, 2008 2:00 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

what is "substantially?"
and why didn't bengals' attendance drop after they had nine arrests in one year.  (if it did drop this year, it's because they sucked.)

by Daedalus on Feb 28, 2008 2:15 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Incredibly popular sport,
only 8 opportunities to see them a season, 35+ regular players.
Two Dunns enter, but only one Dunn leaves...unless neither do because they decide to hunt, play cards, drink and fish. -Slyde

by Man Mountain on Feb 28, 2008 2:28 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

About 20%
earlier this decade.  Admittedly, the team's overall record probably contributes to some degree. But Portland was well known for supporting its team through lean years, including an unprecedented 809 game sellout streak.  The community's disatisfaction with the "Jail Blazers" of the early aughts was widely publicized.  I'm sure that the team's moral reputation impacted its bottom line.  

Has the Bengals' attendance dropped?  I don't know.  I think football is held to a different standard for a variety of reasons - we expect them to be violent, the players aren't visible because of helmuts and pads, etc.  Baseball and basketball are different, in part because its stars are highly visible and marketed heavily.  Plus, as MM says, there's many fewer opportunities to watch football players (I can't remember from that Wire episode if that makes their product more or less elastic).  

but how is a company's reputation really affected if one of its employees gets a DUI?

Personally, I don't care.  But I think the company is in the best position to decide.  If a publicly visible company employee is arrested, I can see why the company would want to punish him if its reputation takes a hit.  Sure, if the guy in the mail room is arrested I don't see the need for a punishment.  Maybe some employers feel the need to do so.  But if they do, and I'm their competitor, I let that be known to the talent I'm trying to attract.  If you can sell yourself as the better work environment, you've gained a competitive advantage over your moralistic peer.

by ken on Feb 28, 2008 2:40 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

nice thoughts
One difference for sports stars...they are role models.  If some office manager or a construction worker gets a DUI obviously he should not be fined or penalized by his employer.  But if kids watch their heros wreckless behavior go uncontrolled by their team they will no doubt grow up to be a hell-raising bully(noted sceintific research).  Public figures who have public problems, should be publicly disciplined or helped(rehab, support).  

Now I am not saying we look at fines and suspensions as a way of punishment, but rather the opposite.  Player X gets suspended for a DUI and hopefully realizes that driving under the influence could cost him a lot more if he keeps it up.  

Montana. It's everything Colorado thinks it is.

by jacob brumfield on Feb 28, 2008 12:42 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

i agree about role models
i do think they should be role models.  but you can't have a double standard.  you can't tell joe shmoe it's ok to be an asshole and expect joe superstar to be an angel.  

i know there are no answers here.  at least no easy ones.  i feel bad for spiezio.  like i said above, if pujols had done the same thing, he'd still be the opening day starter.  talk about double standards!

by Daedalus on Feb 28, 2008 2:13 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

you can have a double standard...
...joe shmoe is not making millions.  

With Pujols vs. Spiezio there is a balance between talent and character.  When bad character outweighs talent, you get the boot.  Is it fair?  I dunno.  But remember an owner has two tasks, filling seats and winning games.

Montana. It's everything Colorado thinks it is.

by jacob brumfield on Feb 28, 2008 2:55 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

"filling seats and winning games"?!
how about "being a responsible member of society"??  i think it was Jesus who said "you can learn alot about a society by how they treat the least among them".  or something like that.  but the inverse is also true.  just because pujols is lucrative shouldnt mean he is exempt from rules and expectations.  that is a terrible way of doing things.  

which leads me to this whole mess with bonds.  he doesnt have a job yet because GMs are more afraid of losing fans (and their money) than losing games.  shouldnt he be unemployed because he is a cheater and a liar and a doper and an all-around sack of shit (if you follow that line of reasoning, which i suppose most baseball folks do).  i know the two are causally linked, but i dont think baseball folks care to see it that way.

is it April yet?

by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 29, 2008 9:36 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Double standards?
It's pretty simple business. Albert Pujols and Scott Spiezio bring different amounts of worth to a company. If Albert Pujols goes and gets a DUI or whatever, it's in the Cardinals interest to support him and make sure he's their opening day starter because he's worth that much on the field. It's not Albert Pujols the person that would make that happen, it's Albert Pujols, the once-in-a-generation baseball talent. Scott Spiezio, on the other hand, is a mediocre bench player with a history of getting in trouble. His production is very replaceable on the field, and thus is not worth the Cardinals trouble to take a hit to their reputation. And just because a team like the Bengals may not take a hit to their ticket sales because of all the arrests doesn't mean they don't take a hit to their reputation and business. The team is just now losing their role as punchline and symbol of everything wrong with the NFL, and that's only because guys like Pacman Jones and Mike Vick were more high-profile players getting in more trouble.

A business has no obligation to its employees if its employees don't respect their obligation to that business. Hell, this diary is a perfect example of how that can happen: crolfer is already making the association between the Cardinals and getting DUIs, which can only reflect poorly on the organization. They were not only within their rights to cut Spiezio, but they made the right move. The guy has shown that he is more trouble than he's worth and it isn't the team's responsibility to clean up his life -- especially when they're paying him a couple mil to no longer be a member of their team.

by Geki on Feb 28, 2008 3:01 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

it's pretty interesting to think about
and it isn't surprising that a guy named pacman has troubles in his life!

by Daedalus on Feb 28, 2008 5:50 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

BTW I did say HEINOUS offence.
DUI. yes if a life is lost in a drunken car accident. (NO Alan the driver is drunk, not the car).

"a business has no obligation to its employees if its employees don't respect their obligation to that business." The preceding line says a lot about the real relationships between worker and company afforded employees in the corporate world. Although some companies DO try to help their employees through addictions etc. most are not equipped to do so - and most don't think that it is their job.

I own a business, i try to help my employees - but somtimes I just can't. I'm not equipped to do so and in the final analysis it is their choice that has made the situation unfixable. Sad but real.

"I'm trying to be a wine dude," Dustball Baker

by Madville on Feb 28, 2008 6:56 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

The Reds DUI policy...
...requires joining the Reds Caravan, and signing autographs for an extra seven minutes prior to games.  Ask Ryan Freel, he'll tell you all about it.
Montana. It's everything Colorado thinks it is.

by jacob brumfield on Feb 28, 2008 10:24 AM EST   0 recs

I think
there should be a senate sub-committee to look into this and waste more of our tax dollars.. Besides, they are the ones that really run baseball, right?
"Sometimes, you get so caught up in on-base percentage that you're clogging up the bases." - our very own D. Baker - Oh my..

by snohio on Feb 28, 2008 4:44 PM EST   0 recs

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