Best/Worst MLB Fielders, according to UPenn

by Dubman on Feb 16, 2008 6:33 PM EST Comment 21 comments

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/10647918

(i'd embed the link, but i'm too dumb to remember how to search through all the archives for at least one of the many instances where someone told someone else here how to do it. sorry.)

anyway, interesting read. i found all the comments at the end of the article even more interesting.

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Ok, I'm convinced

Let's get Carl Crawford.

by Brendanukkah on Feb 16, 2008 8:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

...right...

cuz Jeter is defintely the worst shortstop in the game... I'll admit he's way overrated... but definitely NOT the worst...

Reds: WS Champs 2008... and every year after...

by crolfer on Feb 17, 2008 1:04 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Believe the hype

Jeter really is the worst defensive shortstop. There's simply been too much evidence for too long to conclude otherwise.

David Pinto's Probabilistic Model of Range had Jeter as the worst full time shortstop in 2007 (Christian Guzman was worse in part time).

John Dewan of the Fielding Bible Awards had Jeter tied with Hanley Ramirez as the worst shortstop in 07 (-35).

Tangotiger's Ultimate Zone Rating had Jeter as the worst shortstop in 07 (-27).

Chris Dial at BaseballThinkFactory does work with Linear Weights Zone Rating and defensive runs saved. He picks Jeter as the worst shortstop in 07.

Our good friend Justin had Jeter as the worst shortstop in his 2007 fielding translations (-27.9 runs).

Sorry I don't have time to link these, but it's out there if you look for it. This was for 2007 but this has been a long pattern. I found Dewan's +/- rankings for the past few years.

In 06 Jeter was -22, 2nd worst in baseball.

In 05 he was -34, 2nd worst in baseball.

In 04 he was -16, 4th worst in baseball.

It's quite possible that his career-defensive value marks him as the worst defensive shortstop in history. Basically nobody who is that bad is allowed to remain at short for very long. It takes the unique combination of Derek Jeterness to allow something like this to happen.

by Red Menace on Feb 17, 2008 2:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I really hope

that this is talked about when he goes into the Hall of Fame. Its going to be really annoying if he's talked about as historically one of the best fielding shortstops when he's actually one of the worst.

by Blue on Feb 17, 2008 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And he listens to sorority girl rock.

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 17, 2008 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

probably not

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02162008/sports/yankees/study_claims_jeter_is_worst_fielding_sho_97934.h tm

But New Yorkers scoffed at the notion.

"I don't know what they're smoking down at Penn," said Yankees fan Mike Birch, 32. "That's preposterous. I completely disagree. Jeter's a clutch player."

"It's ridiculous," said fan Jay Ricker, 22. "Jeter is all-around awesome. He's better than A-Rod any day. Character has a lot to do with it. He's out there for his teammates, not just himself. He does it for the good of the team. That's the kind of guy you want on the field."

That's pretty much Jeter's legacy right there.

by Red Menace on Feb 17, 2008 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

"Worst ever" may be a bit much to expect fans to admit to. But serious Yankee fans concede that Jeter's range is not that great. Especially to his left. He's referred to as "Pastadiving" Jeter on some blogs.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 17, 2008 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I like...

"He goes to his left worse than George W. Bush."

by Red Menace on Feb 17, 2008 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I dunno

George W. Bush is looking more liberal all the time, now that he's a lame duck.

There's a contingent of Yankees fans who want Jeter to move to the outfield. He's likely too old for it now, but with his strong arm, fast wheels, and ability to catch balls over his shoulder, he'd probably have made a good outfielder.

A-Rod, OTOH, would make a lousy outfielder, because he can't catch popups. You hold your breath every time a fly ball goes anywhere near him.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 17, 2008 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re

"I don't know what they're smoking down at Penn," said Yankees fan Mike Birch, 32.

This is a bit dated, but iirc it was nothing spectacular.

by ken on Feb 17, 2008 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i think its funny that you think

anyone will "talk" about jeter's defense when "talking" about his hall of fame candidacy. there will be no discussion, unfortunately. remember when JPII died, and some catholic folks tried to forego the rules of sainthood (something about waiting 5 years after their death) and make him a saint on the spot? that's what will happen with jeter. the minute he walks off the field for the last time at yankee stadium there will be 300 screaming baseball writers waiting for him in the locker room. they will regail him with a robe made of the finest wool sheered from the youngest of lambs, and hand him a scepter bejeweled with the finest stones of Zanzibar. he will then be carried on their shoulders the 200 miles to cooperstown, where the ghost of babe ruth will pass to him the crown he wore in that cool picture.

new yankee stadium will forever be called "the house that jeter built". and baseball fans across the country will collectively roll their eyes everytime tim kurkjian or jeremy schapp mentions it.

so, in short, no. they will not discuss his suspect defense when discussing his candidacy for the hall of fame.

is it April yet?

by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 17, 2008 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Are you unfamiliar with HOPE?

Its the proverbial jelly of the month.

by Blue on Feb 17, 2008 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No chance

When such things are brought up they will only be used as a club to beat "statgeeks" over the head with.

The meme will be that anyone "who actually watched the games" knows that Jeter is a great defender and that Mark Twain once wrote that there are lies, damn lies and...blahbiddy blah.

I'm not saying I wouldn't go fishing with the man; all I'm saying is, if he comes near me, I'll put him in the wall.

by Man Mountain on Feb 18, 2008 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mark Twain? Oh no no no...

Man Mountain, you ignorant slut. Those words were penned by the finest writer of our time, Jayson Stark. I don't know who this Twain guy is, but you couldn't be more wrong.

by Brendanukkah on Feb 18, 2008 11:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I find it hard to believe

that the University of Pennsylvania actually evaluated MLB fielders. This guy, on the other hand, apparently did:

by Gray on Feb 17, 2008 11:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Penn is big on baseball

They're also the ones who claimed to have proved statistically that clutch hitters do exist.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Feb 17, 2008 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But

I'm just trying to point out that this is not an institutional feature of UPenn itself. This guy is a stats professor who mainly studies bioinformatics, but gets a lot more press whenever he looks at baseball. The one you mentioned was an undergrad who chose to look at baseball (and ugh, the fact that that writeup says that clutchness was "statistically proven" annoys me). They happen to be at UPenn. That's pretty much the extent of the association between UPenn and this research.

by Gray on Feb 17, 2008 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jensen

I'm suspicious every time I see something like this come from academia for exactly this reason. The way the media picked up that grad student's paper was ridiculous.

But this Jensen guy is good. He's well aware of the work that's gone on in the field. Here he is discussing things with MGL and tango on the Book blog (he repeatedly mentions that his system is similar to Dewan's). Here's where he outlines his SAFE method. It's incredibly lucid and well presented, with some fantastic charts and graphs. He has a seldom updated blog where he gives a hat tip to jinaz's work.

He really is one of the tops in the field, despite the 12-sided dice glasses.

by Red Menace on Feb 17, 2008 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs