C.C.?

by Dubman on Feb 14, 2008 11:53 AM EST Comment 65 comments

"Jay" over at Let's Go Tribe says, in the wake of C.C. Sabathia shutting down contract negotiations with the team for now, that Sabathia is as good as gone next year and that "the Indians are now obliged to consider seriously any trade offers involving Sabathia over the next month." Let's assume that's true--is there a deal here for the Reds?

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I'd trade 2 of the top 6 (but not Bruce)

plus two more lesser (10-20 range) prospects for Sabathia. That's the same deal I would have done for Santana, but given that Santana really didn't get that much in return, I'd be cautious about who I'd give up (i.e. I wouldn't oversell up front).

And the deal would be contingent on Sabathia signing an extension, but that should go without saying.

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Feb 14, 2008 1:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

What would you give up..

..for C.C. "as is" (without an extension)?

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 14, 2008 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Depends on when the trade would happen

If it's before the season starts, I'd give up 2 top 10, or 1 top 5 and 2 10-20. If it's mid-season, it would depend on how close the Reds are. If they are in first, but clearly need another starter, I'd be willing to drop a little more, but probably no more than what I'd give up before the season. If they are a few games out and looking like fools gold (a la 2006), then I probably wouldn't give up too much.

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Feb 14, 2008 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

By the way

these are all off the top of my head. If we got into talking about names and such, I may change my tune a bit.

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Feb 14, 2008 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

totally hypothetically

(just trying to kill a boring winter day)

as far as I know, CC doesn't have a no-trade clause, so I think the Reds would have to give up more than the Mets did, in order to pull it off. Whether that's a good idea or not...

also, getting an extension done would be great, but would it be worth it to go for it even if there was some uncertainty about it?

I wonder if Dunn would be the kind of guy to build a package around. I know he has a no-trade of some kind (i'm forgetting the contract details now). He'd help Cleveland's lineup from LF (probably as much as he'll help the Reds), and it'd be a double whammy for "Reds fans" and Marty, getting rid of the K's and getting at least one of Freel/Hopper in the lineup every day. At least until everybody gets hurt and Gapper and boobs are running around out there.

by Dubman on Feb 14, 2008 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If they traded Dunn

then I would absolutely need CC to sign an extension. The way I see it, 2009's roster would need to either have Dunn (or a reasonably facsimile) or Sabathia (or a reasonable facsimile). This does not include Jay Bruce either, who I am assuming will take over for Griffey. Obviously the Reds could try to acquire replacements through other means, but I would much rather have a big offensive threat or a big pitching threat locked up ASAP.

Plus, I personally don't think that replacing Dunn with Sabathia turns the Reds into favorites in the Central, even if it means that Bruce gets to start. It's probably an upgrade, but not to the point that you would hope when acquiring someone like Sabathia.

Also, Dunn has a no trade clause until June 15th, at which point he has to pick 10 teams he would accept a deal to. This doesn't make him untradeable, but it makes it much harder to deal him.

I think the Reds have enough Major League ready prospects that they could make a sweet enough deal with the Indians to get Sabathia. The question is whether or not it makes sense for the Reds to sacrifice cheap youth with big upside for a pitcher who will make close to $20 million a year? Personally, I think Sabathia is the type of pitcher that is worth that sort of deal for the Reds, though the money will likely mean that they need to stay cheap on offense for as long as possible (i.e. I wouldn't trade Votto if I can avoid it).

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Feb 14, 2008 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

If they trade Dunn, the Reds create a hole they cannot plausibly fill this year. Trading for Sabathia without an extension means that you're trying to win now, and trading Dunn all but makes that impossible.

Setting the no-trade clause aside for the moment, unless people think Jay Bruce is going to walk on the field and hit 40 home runs in his rookie season, it is unclear where the offense is going to come from if you trade Dunn. A Dunn deal when we still had Josh Hamilton might have been more feasible, but still very risky. If we wanted Sabathia, I would probably have packaged Hamilton plus a top 10 guy for him.

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on Feb 14, 2008 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The first thought that popped in my head

when I saw this diary was C.C. Deville. Does that make me a bad baseball fan, and an even badder music fan?

"Just remember, it's not a lie if you believe it." - George Costanza

by beasleymachine on Feb 14, 2008 1:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yes

and yes.

Your penance is to say 40 "Talk Dirty to Mes" and 10 "Unskinny Bops".

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Feb 14, 2008 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

C.C.!

Pick up that rosin bag and talk to me!

by Brendanukkah on Feb 14, 2008 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Speaking of "bad" music

Was anyone else's appreciation of Bad Company enhanced when they realized it pulled of the iPod trifecta?

Bad Company (song)
Bad Company (artist)
Bad Company (album)

The only other song I can think of that might match that feat is "Josie and the Pussycats" off the movie soundtrack. Anyone know any others?

(Man, I'm bored. Is it Saturday yet?)

by Brendanukkah on Feb 14, 2008 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Didn't Bad Religion have the same trifecta?

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Feb 14, 2008 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Big Audio Dynamite?

Maybe?

I'll have to check on that.

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 14, 2008 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They did it....

..but they're gonna need an asterisk or three:

The Band: Big Audio Dynamite
The Album: This is Big Audio Dynamite
The Song: "Bad" (which any Big Audio Dynamite fan worth cotton in their white jeans knows is an informal acronym/nickname for the band: B.A.D.)

BTW, B.A.D. > B.A.D. II

Now I've got to get busy writing a sonnet or some such shit for my wife.

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 14, 2008 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

nah

Superbike World Championship is the worldwide superbike championship.

by Man Mountain on Feb 14, 2008 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep.

All the way back in '81.

Bad Religion
Bad Religion
Bad Religion (Theme Song)

"I'm just like everybody else. I have two arms, two legs, and four-thousand hits." - Pete Rose

by BK on Feb 14, 2008 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Did I drunkenly

try to convince you of Big Country/Big Country/Big Country a couple weeks ago?

I vaguely remember this and remember you slapping me.

I didn't thank you for that.

Superbike World Championship is the worldwide superbike championship.

by Man Mountain on Feb 14, 2008 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I do not recall senator

But if you did, you would be wrong in so many ways.

In A Big Country
Big Country
The Crossing

So, there. Slapped. And for a little while, it was up for some debate over who the bigger band was, Big Country or U2. You got lucky, Bono!

by Brendanukkah on Feb 14, 2008 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Did "In a Big County" have bagpipes?

I think BC should get a nod for pulling that off in the Top 40.

The Church's "Under the Milky Way" is the only other "hit" I can remember with bagpipes.

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 14, 2008 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No, but that was the gimmick

The guitars sounded like bagpipes.

by Brendanukkah on Feb 14, 2008 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The eagle flies at midnight.

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 14, 2008 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Black Sabbath

http://www.google.com/musicl?lid=epaTA92wrVP&aid=iqO208vBzGP

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Feb 14, 2008 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Digging Deep

2gether by 2gether on 2gether

Mtv's fake boy band. I think this counts, because it was no more fake than a real boy band.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2Gether_%28album%29

Bruce Bonser? Boone Bonser? Boot Bonser?BOOSE BONZER?

by Lakeman on Feb 14, 2008 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Borderline due to parentheses

(Theme from) The Monkees
The Monkees
The Monkees

http://www.google.com/musicl?lid=ujezQ7zlfDG&aid=oeswxli3DUE

Bruce Bonser? Boone Bonser? Boot Bonser?BOOSE BONZER?

by Lakeman on Feb 14, 2008 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm on fire

Damn Yankees
Damn Yankees
Damn Yankees

Gotta love the nuge.

http://www.google.com/musicl?lid=4oSGjMLSsAO&aid=nLIisd9UozP

Bruce Bonser? Boone Bonser? Boot Bonser?BOOSE BONZER?

by Lakeman on Feb 14, 2008 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What about

The Smurfs - "We're the Smurfs" from The Smurfs Go Pop

Does that count?

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Feb 14, 2008 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No

But excellent call on Sabbath.

by Brendanukkah on Feb 14, 2008 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's kinda like..

N.W.A. with "One Less Bitch" from Niggaz4Life.

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 14, 2008 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Another one

Iron Maiden
Iron Maiden
Iron Maiden

"I'm just like everybody else. I have two arms, two legs, and four-thousand hits." - Pete Rose

by BK on Feb 14, 2008 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nobody's mentioned

Color Me Badd
C.M.B.
Color Me Badd

New jack swing is the thing.

by ken on Feb 14, 2008 5:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm going there

New Kids on the Block
New Kids on the Block
New Kids on the Block

by Red Menace on Feb 14, 2008 5:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

sure

I was wondering how everybody was researching this topic, but now I get it. You're all just looking at what's on your iPods.

by Brian B on Feb 14, 2008 8:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The idea of Sabathia and Harang

at the front of our rotation is making me a wee bit tingly.

by Brendanukkah on Feb 14, 2008 2:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

If you're a triple cheeseburger

that's called fear

Superbike World Championship is the worldwide superbike championship.

by Man Mountain on Feb 14, 2008 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i'd give my left nut for cc

/c trent

by ken on Feb 14, 2008 2:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

We'll take the C.C. Se...ia

Give C. Trent the bath.

by Brendanukkah on Feb 14, 2008 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't see Cleveland trading C.C.

he is the ace of their staff, and they are a team that could win the World Series in 2008. Trading C.C. would hurt their chances. Sometimes you gotta play for now, and I think that is where the Indians are at presently.

If they have a rash of injuries or under performers this season I am guessing they will try to trade him at the deadline.

The Dusty path to the World Series!

by justin0070000 on Feb 14, 2008 3:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

C.C. is not going anywhere

this is the year for the indians. they have all the pieces in place to make a strong run at the world series, and that doesnt happen without C.C. they arent going to blow that by trading him before april.

is it April yet?

by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 14, 2008 7:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Wow

wow

I Misremember lots of things

by Zach K on Feb 15, 2008 11:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Anybody seen any good movies lately?

From Slate:

..."Isn't the whole point of movies like this to establish a consistent, if completely absurd, cosmology and then have fun playing with its logic and lingo? "Jumper" not only makes the rules up as it goes along; it neglects to tell us what those rules are, which is both unfair and unfun.

At moments, the movie seems to be aspiring to camp, as when Samuel L. Jackson's character, preparing for an extraserious jump, spritzes a room with some mysterious substance in an aerosol can (E-Z Jump? Rules-of-Time-and-Space-B-Gone?). Only Sam Jackson could spray in a way that makes you think, man, that's some badassed spraying."

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 16, 2008 12:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

In Bruges

"Maybe if I'd grown up on a farm - and was retarded - Bruges might impress me. But I didn't, so it doesn't."

Great movie.

Also, substituting "ctownboy" for "Bruges" in that sentence works very nicely.

by Brendanukkah on Feb 16, 2008 9:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I've got to see this film

It's been awhile since I've gotten such widely varying reports on a film by people's whose opinions I value.

Care to elaborate?

I know a lot of what I say has been lifted off of men's room walls

by Man Mountain on Feb 16, 2008 11:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

*people

I got a little overpossessive.

I know a lot of what I say has been lifted off of men's room walls

by Man Mountain on Feb 16, 2008 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

In the most succinct way possible

It's like if Guy Ritchie still made good movies.

Colin Farrell, Brendan Gleeson, Ralph Fiennes -- they're all wonderful in this. For Farrell and Fiennes, it's some of the best work they've done in years. Beautifully shot, great dialogue, and fantastic acting performances. If you stop and think about it, sometimes the plot doesn't necessarily hang together, but you'll probably be having too much fun to care. Go see it. Even if you're not wild about it, I can't imagine you coming away feeling like you wasted your time.

by Brendanukkah on Feb 16, 2008 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

will do

doesn't seem to be playing out here in the sticks yet.

I know a lot of what I say has been lifted off of men's room walls

by Man Mountain on Feb 16, 2008 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Lock Stock was on the other night

and I was thinking, "what happened to that guy?" Apparently he's directing something that will be released in the Fall.

by ken on Feb 16, 2008 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Madonna sucked out his soul

Kind of like she did to Britney Spears when they kissed at the VMA's. She is the destroyer.

by Brendanukkah on Feb 16, 2008 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Britney never had a soul.

She had a thin sweet candy shell that Madonna licked and sucked away. And then the messy country girl center started melting and making a mess all over everyone who came near her.

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 16, 2008 6:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Who's seen "Stranger Than Fiction?"

It's going back to Netflix on Tuesday whether or not I've found the time to check it out.

Should I?

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 16, 2008 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You should

by Brendanukkah on Feb 16, 2008 9:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks.

Nobody asked, but I've seen each of the films nominated for the Best Picture Oscar (with the exception of that one that looks like a remake of The English Patient) and I would recommend any of them.

I thought that Juno was a little bit over-written but most of its eye-rolling dialogue was quieted by the half-way point. Cool movie. Cute, but pretty cool. (If you see it, check out the way that the final scene of the movie was framed and shot. So happy and simple and pleasant. Like a puppy. Nice little movie. Good movie. Now lay down.)

Michael Clayton was pretty fantastic. I haven't seen a lot of movies in the past few years but I'd have a hard time believing that it wasn't one of the best four or five of 2007. That said, it might be considered a little bit staid and conservative when compared to the what the Cohens and Paul Thomas Anderson offered up.

No Country for Old Men was hyper-violent at times but still somehow subtly mind-blowing. Good good stuff. Wow-uh. It reminded me of Jackie Brown in that it snuck up on me and kicked me in the back of both knees and left me laying on the ground staring up at the clouds talking to myself with a new voice inside my head. Easily one of my ten or twelve favorite Cohen Brothers' films.

I liked Magnolia and I really liked Hard Eight and I really really liked Punch Drunk Love. Paul Thomas Anderson is pretty darn good in my book. There Will Be Blood was interesting and it had a few "Aha!" moments that may or may not have been true "Aha!" moments. Amazing sets and some pure cinematography. Lots going on if you're watching closely and thinking throughout. It was good and great and all that but I don't know if it lived up to some of the hyperbole you might have heard/read. It was a lot like a novel and is the ever a novel that can justifiably be declared a "contemporary classic" or whatever? (And is it just me or does anyone else have trouble forgetting that Daniel Day Lewis is Daniel Day Lewis when they're watching a Daniel Day Lewis movie? I thought he was hamming it up like Woody Harrelson might have in Gangs of New York.)

Anybody seen Charlie Wilson's War? I read it and loved it but I can't talk myself into not waiting for it on DVD.

And if I haven't already completely missed my chance I've been meaning to take my three year-old to see The Water Horse as his first in-the-movie-theater movie? Anyone?

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 16, 2008 10:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I saw CWW

really nice. Phillip seymour hoffman was magnif, and the interplay between him and tom hanks was also. it also told the story of our involvement in the soviet-afghan war in a nuanced, non-preachy way: we did some cool stuff, but we ultimately left it even fucked-up-er. I definitely recommend it, if for no other reason than to see PSH's performance.

Also, I agree re: there will be blood. liked it, but was it hands down the best of the year? no. I thought Daniel Day Lewis was terrific, but I was not blown away by Paul Dano. And they coulda clarified the Eli/Paul situation, thrown us a little bone.

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Feb 16, 2008 10:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Eli and Paul explained:

Y'know, it's like raining frogs.

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 16, 2008 10:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And yes...

..during some of Dano's scenes I felt this strange urge to change the channel. Because I felt like I was watching a made for TV movie.

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 16, 2008 10:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

i dont think he proved a lot in little miss sunshine, and all twbb proved to me was they should have stuck with the first eli.

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Feb 16, 2008 11:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Here's my completely unfounded..

..and probably implausable theory:

As originally shot, there was no "Paul" in TWBB. Just Eli. Eli at the beginning telling Plainview about the oil and then Eli again at the Sunday Ranch and in New Boston and then finally in the bowling alley scene. Just one Eli.

PTA has to fire the kid who's playing Eli because he's just absolutely fucking up his movie. PTA has to get a new Eli and reshoot all of the fucked up scenes. Paul Dano is hired and he quickly learns the part (the part of just Eli, so goes my theory) and the fucked up Eli scenes are re-shot and then the new Eli scenes are shot (still.. just Eli).

PTA (and DDL) check out the Dano-as-Eli scenes and they discover what Boobs and Alan will later discover... Dano is a lightweight. The Eli scenes are still fucked up. What are they to do? Hire another actor to come in and play Eli and shoot all the Eli scenes for a third time?

No... PTA just creates Eli's twin brother Paul and has Dano reshoot only the first Eli scene with the only change being his name. (And yes, two(?) other scenes would be changed in order to accomodate dialogue acknowledging the existence of Paul.) The additon of Paul gives a somewhat mysterious aura to Eli's character and gives some perceived "weight" to Dano's otherwise shitty performance.

Dano is shit. PTA is genius.

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 16, 2008 11:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the truth

as i understand it, is that dano was only supposed to be paul, with his one scene, and when the first eli actor wasn't working out PTA decided even dano couldn't be worse than this guy.

but come on, it would have taken like like one sentence of dialogue to clear up the confusion. "This is my son Eli. His twin brother Paul is away." just something.

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Feb 16, 2008 11:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

PTA wanted to leave you guessing and wondering.

Just like Plainview had to guess and wonder about his relationship with his half-brother. And just like H.W. might have guessed and wondered about his realtionship with his father. And (perhaps) how Eli might have guessed and wondered about his dealings with Plainview. (Not so much with that last one but you get my point.)

Raining frogs, my man.

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 17, 2008 12:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ha

is all i have to say to that

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Feb 17, 2008 12:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

CWW was great

Not much to add after boobs and menace. There's no way to walk out of it without thinking about how we've messed up our foreign affairs, but it was able to deliver a highly political message without being too preachy. PSH knocks it out of the park.

I liked No Country for Old Men, and I want to see it again. There's terrific suspense with the chase narrative and understated poignancy with Tommy Lee Jones and Josh Brolin. The scenery is stunning. And it's good to see the girl from Trainspotting working.

I saw that the Coens are going to adapt Michael Chabon's The Yiddish Policeman's Union. There's also a chance they'll do Kavalier & Klay in the future. Anyone read these? I'm excited for both, particularly the latter.

by ken on Feb 17, 2008 10:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i just read "kavalier and clay"

this past autumn and i kinda liked it. chabon certainly has a catchy style, and the first few hundred pages are really really impressive. but somewhere in the middle he takes story away from what drew me in in the first place. a few too many times i found myself reading it just to finish it. in the end, i still liked it. there are parts that are really inspired and wonderful, and they do enough to outweigh the clunky or boring parts.

is it April yet?

by Charlie Scrabbles on Feb 17, 2008 6:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

it's pretty good

I saw The King of Kong the other day and really enjoyed it.

by Red Menace on Feb 16, 2008 9:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the tip.

It's on DVD now?

Paging my Netflix queue...

Take a look around this dump. You're just a tourist with a typewriter. I live here.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Feb 16, 2008 10:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah it's out

Dana Stevens had an interesting article in Slate about the inevitable Juno backlash. What's funny is how everyone is annoyed by it in the first 15-20 minutes then it gradually worms into your heart.

I've seen most the prestige pictures, as is my habit. It was really easy when I lived in LA, but takes some work here in flyover land. I still haven't seen Eastern Promises, Lust, Caution or Perseopolis but I've got most of the award contenders covered.

Charlie Wilson's War wasn't nearly as annoying as I feared a Tom Hanks/Julia Robert joint would be. As usual PSH steals the show.

Atonement, the English Patienty one, is enjoyable if you have a taste for Merchant/Ivory films. The highlight is a 5 1/2 minute steadicam shot that absolutely rocks the house.

Right now I'm trying to catch up on the last season of The Wire before the upcoming finale.

by Red Menace on Feb 17, 2008 12:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs