Community Prospect Rankings: #1

by BK on Dec 18, 2008 8:00 AM EST in Community Prospect Rankings Comment 145 comments

Here's a new idea for the site (shamelessly ripped off from Brew Crew Ball, the SBNation Brewers blog (who do a fantastic job, seriously)). There's plenty of top prospect lists for the Reds out there, but not one that reflects the diverse community here at RR. So we're making our own list!

The way this is going to work, is that every few days, a list of players will be voted on by you, the community, and one by one, we'll find the top 40 (or another number) best prospects in the Reds organization, which will hopefully go on a list on the side of the front page. The format should be pretty self explanatory as we move along.

Here are the first 5 prospects under consideration for the number 1 spot. If there's someone else you think deserves it, say so in the comments, otherwise, vote for who you think is number 1. Also, feel free to make a pitch for who you voted for, and maybe spark some discussion about the future of our beloved team in the offseason. Without further ado, the nominees for the Reds #1 prospect:

Yonder Alonso, 1B:

John Sickels rank: 1
Redsminorleagues rank: 1
Age: 21
Draft/Acquisition Details: 1st round (pick 7), Reds, 2008
Last Level Played: A+ (Sarasota)

2008 Statistics:
Miami (FL) (NCAA): 64 G, 211 AB, .370/.534/.777
Sarasota (A+): 6 G, 19 AB, .316/.440/.368
Waikiki (HWL): 29 G, 104 AB, .308/.419/.510

Neftali Soto, 3B/IF:

John Sickels rank: 4
Redsminorleagues rank: 2
Age: 19
Draft/Acquisition Details: 3rd round (pick 109), Reds, 2007
Last Level Played: A- (Dayton)

2008 Statistics:
Billings (Rookie): 15 G, 67 AB, .388/.423/.746
Dayton (A-): 52 G, 218 AB, .326/.343/.500
Santurce (Puerto Rico Winter League): 6 G, 11 AB, .091/.077/.091

Todd Frazier, SS/IF/OF:

John Sickels rank: 2
Redsminorleagues rank: 4
Age: 22
Draft/Acquisition Details: 1st round (pick 34), Reds, 2007
Last Level Played: A+ (Sarasota)

2008 Statistics:
Dayton (A-): 30 G, 112 AB, .321/.402/.598
Sarasota (A+): 100 G, 366 AB, .281/.357/.451
Waikiki (HWL): 27 G, 95 AB, .295/.375/.547

Chris Valaika, SS:

John Sickels rank: 3
Redsminorleagues rank: 5
Age: 23
Draft/Acquisition Details: 3rd round (pick 84), Reds, 2006
Last Level Played: AA (Chattanooga)

2008 Statistics:
Sarasota (A+): 32 G, 135 AB, .363/.393/.585
Chattanooga (AA): 97 G, 379 AB, .301/.352/.443
Peoria (AFL): 27 G, 95 AB, .311/.346/.437

Drew Stubbs, CF:

John Sickels rank: 5
Redsminorleagues rank: 3
Age: 23
Draft/Acquisition Details: 1st round (pick 8), Reds, 2006
Last Level Played: AAA (Louisville)

2008 Statistics:
Sarasota (A+): 86 G, 303 AB, .261/.366/.406
Chattanooga (AA): 26 G, 92 AB, .315/.400/.402
Louisville (AAA): 27 G, 95 AB, .311/.346/.437
Peoria (AFL): 22 G, 85 AB, .200/.306/.329

There they are. Vote in the poll. Poll will go for a couple of days until the next post is up. In the case of a tie, the 4 admins will confer amongst themselves to determine a winner. If they tie 2-2, we'll ask Madville.

Poll

Who is the Reds #1 prospect for 2009?

Yonder Alonso, 1B

194 votes

Neftali Soto, 3B/IF

35 votes

Todd Frazier, SS/IF/OF

33 votes

Chris Valaika, SS

29 votes

Drew Stubbs, CF

43 votes

334 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 145 comments

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Comments

I picked Alonso

because none of the other 3 offensive minded players have stellar defensive reputations and I think Alonso is going to be the best hitter of the group. If I thought Stubbs were ever going to develop some power, I’d consider him, but at this point I think he’ll be a defensive specialist who hopefully will be good at getting on base.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 18, 2008 8:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yonder

Frazier has defensive versatility and is just a year older than Alonso, but he doesn’t have a power ceiling like Yonder’s. If he could have stuck at SS, Soto would be my #1. It sounds like the Reds thought Soto was a little too big to play there.

by ken on Dec 18, 2008 8:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Frazier and Alonso

Todd Frazier projects to have as much power as Alonso. Both are 25-30 HR types. The difference is that Alonso has unworldly plate discipline.

www.redsminorleagues.com

by dougdirt on Dec 18, 2008 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Surprised at Frazier's power projection

given his SLG at Sarasota. Then again, I didn’t realize he was that big (6’3", 215).

by ken on Dec 18, 2008 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sarasota and the FSL

really sap a players power. The list of good prospects who see their power drop off dramatically in the FSL then blow up once they leave is pretty long.

www.redsminorleagues.com

by dougdirt on Dec 18, 2008 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Votto FTW

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Dec 18, 2008 7:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I voted for Alonso too

He’s as close as there is to a “sure thing” at the plate, and he’s solid defensively for his position. If only his position was up for grabs on our team…

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 18, 2008 8:36 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

how about Robert Manual

he is not a top prospect, but I was pleasantly surprised when I looked at his numbers. In 77 innings in AA last year he threw 92 Ks and 15 BBs. He could be helpful in the bullpen in 2010.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Dec 18, 2008 8:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Maybe we should trade him for Jorge Cantu.

/bitter.

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Dec 18, 2008 8:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They can't do that, can they?

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 18, 2008 8:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

With such a thing at stake?

They’ll find a way.

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Dec 18, 2008 8:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you missed the joke

+1 for tHan for remembering all the way back to 2007. Too much law school for andromache.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 18, 2008 9:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Cut me some slack.

It’s finals week.

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Dec 18, 2008 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

cantu!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 8:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you missed an exclamation point there

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 18, 2008 9:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

that's all it would let me add

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 9:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

that's obnoxious.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 18, 2008 9:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

a little

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 9:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't get it.

Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.

by Paul Householder on Dec 18, 2008 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i don't either

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 11:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Because as you said, he's not a top prospect.

He could be on this list eventually, but what we’re looking for is the answer to “who is the number 1 prospect in the organization?”. Do you really think Robert Manuel is a better prospect than these 5?

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 18, 2008 8:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

no i really don't

how about Robert Manual was more of like “How bout them bears?”. I do not think he belongs on this list, and he never would. I just wanted to discuss a prospect, who I didn’t think warranted his own thread.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Dec 18, 2008 10:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ok.

Well, as I said, he may make an appearance on one of the later lists. He may not though, because we’re thinking this is going to be a top 20 list, and by most accounts, he’s not a top 20 guy, which goes to show just how good our minor league system is.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 18, 2008 10:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey, the Reds gave up Dave Williams to get him.

He’d better be good.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Dec 18, 2008 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Who, of course, we traded Sean Casey to get

If Manuel doesn’t follow in The Mayor’s footsteps, he’s a huge bust.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 18, 2008 10:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hahahaha

I completely forgot that actually happened. But I remember Dave Williams’ quote in the paper, “I asked the GM ‘who else did they get in the trade?’ and he said ‘just you.’ I can’t believe that the Reds only wanted me for a player like Casey, they must think I’m gonna be special.”

or something like that. But it says something that even a supercocky guy like a pro athlete couldn’t believe that he was worth it.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Dec 18, 2008 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

For this coming season - 2009 ?

Yonder is still unknown, Stubbs is the closest to the show.

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Sir Winston Churchill

by Madville on Dec 18, 2008 9:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

i picked Soto

he’s only 19, and he’s already shown tremendous power, with even more room to grow. his ISO last year was .170 and he only struck out 36 times in 218 ABs.

i think its a toss-up between he and Alonso, and i picked Soto really only because we’ve seen a bit more of him. but i like everyone on this list.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 18, 2008 10:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I did the same

for many of the same reasons. Plus, the AB’s that I’ve seen on video lead me to believe that his presence at the plate bode well for the higher levels. His weight distribution and quiet hands lead me to believe that he’ll make adjustments to better pitchers changing speeds more frequently.

Slyde: "You're like the Ike Turner of RR commenters."

by Pops Daniels on Dec 18, 2008 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

my concern with him is the walks

he’s young so I think he’ll work it out, but I’d sure like to see twice as many as what he’s putting up right now, at least. Given that Alonso already has the plate discipline to go with the power, he gets the vote, even if he hasn’t had a lot of time in the minors.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 18, 2008 10:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

plate discipline

while i would love to see Soto walk more, i dont think its critical to his success at higher levels. his LD rates and K rates are phenomenal too, showing that he does have good discipline in the K zone. he just doesnt walk much because he is too busy hammering the hell out of the ball. i imagine when he faces better pitching he wont get so many easy pitches to crush, and it will force him to walk a bit more. with his K rate the way it is im confident he’ll maintain his discipline as he moves up and will draw a few more walks. his batting average should maintain enough to keep his OBP at an acceptable level.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 18, 2008 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Alonso.

He’s the best combination of power and average in the system and he’s more of a pure hitter than anyone else the Reds have. He features excellent plate discipline and he’s not just a pull hitter. Alonso has legitimate power to all fields. He can move quickly through the system, plays stellar defense and figures to adjust quickly to MLB pitching.

These are five strong candidates. If this is 2003, we’re debating Chris Gruler, Bobby Basham, WIly Mo, EdE and Dustin Moseley.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Dec 18, 2008 10:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

At least Chris Gruler hustles

That Ratso Rizzo guy has really brought out the best in him.

by Brendanukkah on Dec 18, 2008 10:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Alonso only has 19 professional reg season at-bats

And he’s #1?

by rojosoto on Dec 18, 2008 10:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

In all fairness to Alonso, I should have put up his last season at Miami too

Because that’s really where any conclusions about his game have been from, not his 19 ABs in Sarasota. I’ll look that up.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 18, 2008 11:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hmm... where can you find statistics for college players?

Anybody who can pull that up gets bonus points.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 18, 2008 11:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

...baseball cube has them

www.thebaseballcube.com

Wait, this is another joke that I’m not getting, isn’t it?

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Dec 18, 2008 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Of course.

Thanks, your bonus points are in the mail. And for once, there’s no joke for you to be left out of!

Also, you get more points for beating ’than by 1 minute. Twice.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 18, 2008 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yes, but my page went to the stats

with her link you still have to look around

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 11:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yes, but she sent him to a better site

honestly, I’m not sure you have the linking skills required to be a professional UK blogger.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 18, 2008 11:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

but hers was faster and you posted yours twice

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 18, 2008 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

that's because of your shitty site

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

honestly, your site kind of sucks more

I spent around 5 minutes on that site looking for statistics and came up empty. Which, considering you found them on there, doesn’t say a lot for me, does it?

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 18, 2008 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you are drunk

alonso’s stats are the first ones listed

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 12:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

no when I was looking for it initially

I started by looking on Miami’s athletic site, and no luck

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 18, 2008 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

there was a button hidden on the side for statistics

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 12:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't get it.

Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.

by Paul Householder on Dec 18, 2008 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

this should work

but the pages formatting is screwy

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

this should work

but the pages formatting is screwy

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

don't forget his performance in the HWL

So far, he appears to be just what he was in college – excellent BB/K ratio, decent power, good contact.

Also, word is that he’s going to be playing in Carolina next season if he can make the team, so he’ll jump everybody but Valaika and Stubbs in terms of expected arrival in Cincinnati.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 18, 2008 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

When I first saw this

I thought it might be like a RR futures market, where, based on votes/shares, we could watch the perceived value of our prospects rise and fall throughout the season. This is still a cool idea.

Youth wins games; veteran presence wins championships!

by ben nevis on Dec 18, 2008 10:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

sounds like a lot of work on our end

I don’t like work.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 18, 2008 10:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

that's why you don't like it when players hustle

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You mean like this?

“This is no fantasy”

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Dec 18, 2008 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Crap, we really need a "Delete comment" function

This is what I was actually thinking of.

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Dec 18, 2008 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd heard of Newsom's company before

And I think it’s an interesting idea. In some ways, it makes a lot of sense for young athletes who want to bring in some liquidity early in their careers. I think the simple volatility of athletes, especially baseball prospects, probably keeps most people away from this kind of “investing.”

Anyway, this isn’t quite what I had in mind. That is, I didn’t suppose that we’d actually purchase shares of Reds prospects with real cash. But I wonder if something similar could be created without the money involved on a site like this. A game of sorts – with pride the motivating factor instead of cash – in which you “buy” shares in a player. Those shares then increase/decrease in value based on demand, which is naturally based on performance and the likelihood that a player “succeeds” – though, of course, that would require a more precise definition. It’s kind of a fledgling idea that I think I’m having a hard time articulating. Plus, the holidays are nuts, so I don’t have time to flesh it out at the moment. Geez, I don’t even have time to post this.

Youth wins games; veteran presence wins championships!

by ben nevis on Dec 18, 2008 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think this ran into legal trouble

for not registering with the SEC. Haven’t heard anything about it since.

by ken on Dec 18, 2008 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

When I was in law school

I did a seminar presentation about the interplay of internet gaming law and online information markets (e.g., intrade). As part of the presentation, I created my own online information market and gave my classmates access. Creating the market through this free service I found was extremely easy, but in a quick search a could not find the site. That said, someone with a free hour or two could set this up and it would be really cool. I’ll keep trying to find the site.

"I never should have given up the animation rights."

by BobbyO on Dec 18, 2008 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Found it

Inkling Markets

"I never should have given up the animation rights."

by BobbyO on Dec 18, 2008 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

In a related story

boobs’ roommate scores some points thanks to Slingin’ Sammy Baugh’s death.

by Red Menace on Dec 18, 2008 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

because these types of things are so scientificky

i voted for frazier, knowing that since slyde voted for alonso, a lot of other people would see that and vote for him, too.

Yes We Did!

by Daedalus on Dec 18, 2008 11:48 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Oh.

I voted for Frazier because his kung-fu is best.

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Dec 18, 2008 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Winner for "You're Doin' It Wrong!: Tattoo Division"

by Brendanukkah on Dec 18, 2008 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

flattery will get you nowhere

and anybody who trusts my opinion on minor leaguers need only remember that I was adamant that Justin Germano should be in the rotation and that Carlos Guevara and Calvin Medlock were the future of the bullpen.

I’m often wrong about Major Leaguers and I’m rarely right about the minors.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 18, 2008 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

At least that balances things out

Alonso’s my pick because he gets more clutch hits!

The season doesn't start until the Cincinnati Reds take the field! Reclaim The Opener!!

by TheC on Dec 18, 2008 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

it wasn't flattery

it was mocking people who worship your every word as The Truth. ;)

Yes We Did!

by Daedalus on Dec 18, 2008 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I wouldn't say "The Truth"

Just…strongly truthy.

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Dec 18, 2008 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

rec'd again

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I for one, welcome our mother's-basement-dwelling overlords

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Dec 18, 2008 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i dwell in brendan's mother's basement

if ya know what i mean

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hoo boy, this is gonna be awkward

I’m heading home for the holidays on Friday, and I’ll be staying in – you guessed it! – the basement. I hope you don’t snore.

by Brendanukkah on Dec 18, 2008 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

wait a sec

there are people who do that? I’m must be Barack Obama or something.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 18, 2008 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

rec'd

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

says the guy who also voted for Alonso

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 18, 2008 12:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i voted before i opened the thread

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

riiiiiiight

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 18, 2008 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you are one of ths suckups daedalus was talking about

weren’t you?

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i voted Soto

my reputation is unassailable.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 18, 2008 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ass

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

no

you are

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 18, 2008 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

nuh uh

you are

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ummmm

you are

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 18, 2008 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"Oh dear, she's stuck in an infinite loop, and he's an idiot!"

by Brendanukkah on Dec 18, 2008 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

after careful consideration

you are

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i question

the validity of your sources.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 18, 2008 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you would

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Cut this horseshit out!

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Dec 18, 2008 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yes sir

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I voted for Stubbs

I feel that he is most likely to be called up to the bigs this season.

by Brendanukkah on Dec 18, 2008 3:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Me too goddamnit

He’s the only 2009 prospect

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Sir Winston Churchill

by Madville on Dec 19, 2008 12:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This isn't just about who will have the biggest impact on the Reds in 2009

This is also about who has the brightest future. Stubbs future is definitely more certain, but at this point I think Alonso looks like he will be the better player, if all things go as planned.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 19, 2008 8:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yonder Alonso

His combo of polish and upside just isn’t matched by anyone else in the system right now.

www.redsminorleagues.com

by dougdirt on Dec 18, 2008 3:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Norris Hopper is the #1 prospect.

He is a real major leaguer and knows how to play the game the right way.

And he just got re-signed by the Reds.

This was not even deserving of a fanshot.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081218&content_id=3720855&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.

by Paul Householder on Dec 18, 2008 3:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The comment on that article is priceless

I am a huge Hopper supporter! Infact, I would like to see the Reds hand him the starting center field position & lthe ead-off spot in the line-up. Give it him to lose. Hopefully he won’t though! He has a good over all Avg, he has Speed, great Defense, & plus he is the best bunter ever in the history of sports! Hopper has all the skiils of a Corey Patterson, except he has learned that he is not a power hitter, his job is to just get on base. Hey, that is wha he does, now lets let him do it!

Is Average Joe Reds Fan (AJRF) in the vernacular yet? Because if we’re adding that to a dictionary, this quote should be one of the definitions.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 18, 2008 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

put it in the wiki

if we werent an elitist clique yet, this will probably cement it.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 18, 2008 3:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Doesn't the fact that we have a wiki

make us an elitist clique already?

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 18, 2008 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

youre probably right BK

youre always BK.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 18, 2008 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If you're calling someone "average" as an insult

then you’re elitist.

Luckily, I’m elite. My mom told me so.

I have discovered in 20 years of moving around a ballpark, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. - Bill Veeck

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 18, 2008 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"best bunter ever in the history of sports"

1) A Mr. Brett Butler is on line one sir, and would like to speak with you. Juan Pierre is on line two.

2) AJRF is a wholly owned subsidiary of JCH Enterprises, LLC. Credit me or you’ll get a strongly worded C&D, written on a bar napkin. :)

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Dec 18, 2008 3:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

1) Are you the secretary for all of RR or just Menace?

2) I wasn’t going to not give you credit, especially if it’s going in the wiki. I’ve been trying to think term for those people for a long time, and AJRF is extremely concise and gets the point across. So thanks. I’m going to need 5 copies of the patent forms your sending in for AJRF by the end of the day. Thaaaanks.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 18, 2008 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm probably in the minority,

but I’m not crazy about the recent spate of average fan bashing around here. Baseball is better off the more fans it has, and people like the game for different reasons.

by ken on Dec 18, 2008 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I love fan bashing.

It’s almost as good as clubbing baby seals. POWER!

People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.

by crolfer on Dec 18, 2008 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I wasn't bashing

I love the average fan……hell, I’d like to think I’m the average fan.

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Dec 18, 2008 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

60% of all drivers...

Think they are above-average drivers.

Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.

by Paul Householder on Dec 18, 2008 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And 47.64% of all staistics are made up on the spot

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Dec 18, 2008 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.

by Paul Householder on Dec 18, 2008 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that number may be lower

or higher.

And I think we should go with the Pete Rose pronunciation: SUH-TISTICS.

I have discovered in 20 years of moving around a ballpark, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. - Bill Veeck

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 18, 2008 7:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

According to your corporate structure

you own the average Reds fan. ; )

by ken on Dec 18, 2008 9:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think average fan bashing is what is going on here.

It is rather bashing the average fan who says things that bear no relation to observable reality and passes off those statements as facts.

I have no problem with the guy who is a casual fan and doesn’t really want to get into OPS+, Win Shares, VORP, Runs Created, UZR or whatnot. Nevertheless, if that guy wants to argue that player X is better than player Y without at least considering observable (and measurable) reality, I have a problem with that.

Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.

by Paul Householder on Dec 18, 2008 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I just wanted to say that you just described me in the 2nd paragraph

I’m a deaf mute in the “What will happen to EE in 10 years?” discussion. I became a Reds fan because the really really BAD Reds teams were still a lot of fun in a “Where will Wily Mo’s throw end up?” kind of way.

This site has made me have to become a somewhat serious fan. But I still try to just have fun with this whole “following a team” concept. I trust y’all when it comes to statistics, I just want to make sarcastic comments and enjoy the ride. And I haven’t seemed to upset the extremists quite yet.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Dec 18, 2008 7:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm a 2nd paragraph guy, too.

But let’s not forget that sabermetrics (considered the MOST useful assessment tool by almost everyone on this site, including myself) ain’t an end-all be-all. Sometimes the “baseball guys” know some stuff, too…but I discount any of them who themselves completely discount sabermetrics.

But I wonder if Billy Martin circa 1977 could out-manage Tony LaRussa…someone run a simulation – quick!

I have discovered in 20 years of moving around a ballpark, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. - Bill Veeck

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 18, 2008 8:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And probably the reason the extremists haven't come for you...

With their pitchforks and torches is because the second sentence of the second paragraph doesn’t apply to you. You’re willing to at least consider stats and sabermetrics and are persuadeable with reasonable arguments.

The typical commenter on Teh Fay is not like that.

Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.

by Paul Householder on Dec 18, 2008 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't know a ton about baseball? Just want to make sarcastic comments and enjoy the ride?

Well kid, if you do it long enough, they’ll make you a moderator around here for that. Believe in your dreams!

by Brendanukkah on Dec 18, 2008 11:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's how I feel about it too

I’m not saying by any means that I don’t want those fans as fans of my team, but Paul hit the nail on the head. The ones that irritate me are the ones that make outrageous claims and won’t consider any type of evidence that disputes their claim. Mostly, the people who comment on Fay’s blog and the lovely message board on the Facebook application that crolfer and I head up.

And what’s worse, is that they get most of these opinions from the local media. Marty and Doc are classic examples of those who won’t be bothered with anything statistical, and won’t even consider evidence to the contrary. That attitude gets passed down to the fans, and that’s kind of a sad thing, I think. The beauty of a place like this is that everybody has their own opinions, and most people here are open-minded enough to participate in a debate without completely dismissing other people who try to argue against their opinion. I like to think that the people here are a little more open-minded and less argumentative than the “average” Reds fan, and if that makes me elitist, I guess I’m elitist.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 18, 2008 8:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I get the feeling that if I lived in Cincinnati or read the comments on Fay or Facebook I would understand your perspective better. Like I said below, anything mean-spirited or patently stupid is fair game for derision. I just don’t see the comment quoted above as an example of that.

The beauty of a place like this is that everybody has their own opinions, and most people here are open-minded enough to participate in a debate without completely dismissing other people who try to argue against their opinion.

Couldn’t agree more.

by ken on Dec 18, 2008 9:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"Bashing" may have been a bit strong

But there’s really nothing outrageous about the Hopper fanboy comment above. It certainly bears at least some relation to observable reality. Hopper wouldn’t be a bad leadoff hitter – he hits for contact, gets on base a decent clip, and runs well. Personally, I think he could be over-exposed if he started every day and I don’t expect him to hit 316/367 if he gets 600 PAs. But he’s a defensible choice for our leadoff guy given our roster.

I’m just not a fan of mocking comments like these. There’s nothing wildly inaccurate in there (I take the best bunter in the world line as hyperbole) and certainly nothing mean-spirited. If he was telling the VORPies to shove wOBA up their UZR, it’d be a different story.

by ken on Dec 18, 2008 9:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with ken

I’m not a fan of bringing in comments from other forums to beat them down. At least when FJM was doing it they were attacking empowered insiders.

by Red Menace on Dec 18, 2008 9:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nah, reading it over again, I think you're right about that

I’m sure at any point in time, I could go to Fay’s blog or the Facebook app and find a worse comment. Hey, let’s do that now!

Someone made a point earlier today about Adam Dunn being very good at avoiding outs (this was stemming from the Marty comment that he’s not paid to get on base), and this was the response he got:

No, he’s not good at it. It’s the pitcher’s problem. I’ve said it over and over, if it was Adam Dunn’s fault for all his walks then that would mean that he has a good eye. And if he had a good eye he wouldn’t strike out 200 times a season. What Marty said was that Dunn wasn’t paid to walk. He was paid to drive in runs. And for as many homers as he hits, his RBI count should be much higher.

To me, that’s a lot worse than the Hopper comment, and those are the “average Reds fans” that I’m referring to.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 18, 2008 9:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And RM, I'm bringing this comment over as an example, not necessarily to beat them down

although I did reply over there.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 18, 2008 9:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I understand the urge

I’ve accidentally caught 700 and immediately wanted to vent here. I’m just not sure what it accomplishes.

Writers get the commenters they deserve. The comments at Joe Posnanski’s site are great (even when they’re not like-minded). Roger Ebert’s blog won some sort of award for best comments. There’s really no bigger indictment on Fay than to have those comments immediately follow all his articles.

Meanwhile there’s a different sort of community here. Since ken brought it up I’ll mention that I’d prefer we leave that trash at the door.

by Red Menace on Dec 18, 2008 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"Writers get the commenters they deserve."

That’s really an absolutely fascinating comment to me.

I do a lot of work (all of it in the “writing papers for undergrad level classes for no money” dept.) in Identity. Basically, you want to hang out with people who are like you.

JoePo’s love really pours out in his writing. I’ve become a somewhat Royals fan just because reading his blog makes me excited about them. I identify with his self-acknowledged ridiculousness. He’s a dork who has no problem spending thousands of words on what he loves. If he wrote like that about “desire” and “grittiness” than I would follow that, I think.

But Teh and Doc just seem to be resting on the laurels of Grantland Rice. They don’t get excited about what they write, they just say what they think sportswriters should sound like. I mean, thats why folks like Buzz Bissinger are still respected, because he really CARES, even if he’s moderately insane.

But fans identify with the guys they like to read. That’s why when you find someone who likes your favorite book/band, you get excited; you identify with each other. So JoePo and RR (not that we’re on that level) get commenters who are thoughful, clever, and self-effacing. Those are the folks we’re writing for! Ourselves!

Umm, I’ve rambled on a bit now, but I have strong feelings about it. Identifying with a group is one of the most important parts of life, and commenting is just a part of that.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Dec 18, 2008 9:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I could tell who wrote that before I even looked at the app...

People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.

by crolfer on Dec 18, 2008 11:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

this is the second time this week she’s brought up a Dunn-bashing discussion out of nowhere. I’ve been trying to stay out of it for once, but come on, read that comment. Saying that Dunn’s 100 walks last year are because the pitchers he faced sucked, and then saying that his strikeouts are because he sucks. There’s no logic behind that.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 19, 2008 8:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

who is "she"?

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 19, 2008 8:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This girl who posts on the FB app

If she isn’t Michael’s daughter, I’d be shocked.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 19, 2008 8:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps her name is Amber Jean....

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 19, 2008 9:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Would Belligerently Argumentative Reds Fan be better? :)

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Dec 18, 2008 5:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The acronym for that is amazingly accurate

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 18, 2008 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

rec'd

or perhaps an alternative, for the elitist crowd:
Moronic Argumentative Repetitious Taxing Yokel?

I have discovered in 20 years of moving around a ballpark, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. - Bill Veeck

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 18, 2008 11:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

average joe reds fan is redundant

it should just be joe reds fan

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Joe the Reds fan?

"Yes, and it's so important in this sport that the athletes be able to train in the same location." -Cynthia Potter, NBC Synchronized Diving Analyst

by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Dec 18, 2008 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The sad part is

I hate to admit it alot of Reds fans are also Kentucky fans. That’s were your AJRF sect comes from.

by Dave from Louisville on Dec 18, 2008 9:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i'm glad you let us know "were" they come from

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 18, 2008 11:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bastard

by Dave from Louisville on Dec 19, 2008 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Teh Fay's got a new post up that outlines the Reds looking for a young SS

The commenters on there seem to think that Beardinger is the answer at SS “Above Average Defense and .300 BA”

"Yes, and it's so important in this sport that the athletes be able to train in the same location." -Cynthia Potter, NBC Synchronized Diving Analyst

by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Dec 18, 2008 4:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

first on the list

Chin Lung Hu of the Dodgers. i was hoping the Braves would sign Furcal so we could go after Escobar, but Hu isnt a horrible consolation prize. with Furcal at SS, Blake at 3B, and DeWitt at 2B, Hu should be expendable and affordable. his defense is supposed to be solid if not spectacular, and his minor league OPS is .766. he smoked the ball in AA in ‘07, OPSing .888 in 325 ABs, but lost more than 100 points of SLGing from ’07 to ’08. i dont know if that has anything to do with injuries or park factors or what. he’s not going to solve our OBP woes, but he wont kill us either and the upgrade in infield defense would be substantial. and he’s under team control for 6 years and he’s ready for the big leagues today (hopefully).

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 18, 2008 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He's had some blurred vision problems in the past

that’s apparently what hurt him last year:

Shortstop Chin-lung Hu, who was optioned to Las Vegas on June 9, was put on the minor league disabled list after complaining of blurry vision in his right eye. Hu traveled from Salt Lake City to Las Vegas on Sunday to be examined.

Hu said he suffered from poor vision in that eye in 2006, when he batted .254 at Jacksonville. The problem went away the next season and Hu hit .329 between two minor league stops.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 18, 2008 5:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's easily correctable

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 18, 2008 6:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hey. Got a new avatar for you.

It’s from an article on a supposed “meat musk” fragrance from Burger King.

Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.

by Paul Householder on Dec 18, 2008 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Official Site for "Flame"

Rather disturbing…

http://www.firemeetsdesire.com/

Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.

by Paul Householder on Dec 18, 2008 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I actually voted for Frazier

I just haven’t seen enough of Alonso to pick him, and don’t know all that much about Soto. Honestly, I think that by the time ST starts and everything, Alonso will probably be my top pick though. Plus I have a signed program from Todd Frazier. :D

People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.

by crolfer on Dec 18, 2008 4:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I may have to change my vote

I didn’t know about Frazier’s poker playing and wiffle ball abilities.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 18, 2008 4:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The real question is...

What is his batting average, and does he run out to his position?

Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.

by Paul Householder on Dec 18, 2008 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

rec'd

for delicious irony

I have discovered in 20 years of moving around a ballpark, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. - Bill Veeck

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 18, 2008 8:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs