Pitching Mechanics: Homer Bailey

Kyle Boddy at Driveline Mechanics has taken a look at Homer Bailey's mechanics to see if he can tell what's wrong. Definitely worth a read, even if you aren't johnnypronto.

"With all that out of the way, let's take a look at his pitching mechanics and see if we can find some red flags that would explain why his fastball went from 96-98 MPH (!) to an average fastball of 92-93 MPH (!!):

I have one word for you: Pain."

6 months ago Slyde Comment 66 comments 0 recs |

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that was encouraging

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Dec 12, 2008 8:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

really?

my first thought was, “Maybe they should trade him.”

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 12, 2008 8:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

oh

I failed to convey my sarcasm.

Does this mean Jonnypronto was right?

That site is really good. I spent a lot of time reading through their archives.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Dec 12, 2008 8:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That and "in English, please" were my thoughts

by ken on Dec 12, 2008 8:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

Some layman’s speak would have helped, but I think I got the gist of it, which was, “Homer’s a time bomb.”

Youth wins games; veteran presence wins championships!

by ben nevis on Dec 12, 2008 8:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, I just smile and nod and pretend I know what he's saying

and then I just read the bold parts.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 12, 2008 8:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's scaptacular

by ken on Dec 12, 2008 9:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Given how horrible he said Homer's mechanics are...

is anything fixable?

We want to build long period of time. I didn’t come here for the shot run.

by Gray on Dec 12, 2008 10:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Interesting that Homer is listed as an example of how NOT to pitch a baseball

And one of the other pitchers on that list is B.J. Ryan, another Reds draftee. 2 out of the 4 poster children for bad mechanics were drafted by the Reds. Does our scouting department need to get more pitching savvy?

by Brendanukkah on Dec 12, 2008 10:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

no way

they’ve been doing a bang up job of developing pitchers

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 12, 2008 10:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

How about sending Homer to see

Mike Marshall? I would pay to see that.

by Joe Nolan's Glasses on Dec 12, 2008 10:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

How about sending the Reds to see

Tom Emanski? They were Baseball World’s back to back to back AAU National Champions.

Fred McGriff says that “this is the instructional video that gets results”

"Yes, and it's so important in this sport that the athletes be able to train in the same location." -Cynthia Potter, NBC Synchronized Diving Analyst

by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Dec 12, 2008 10:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Supination?

Arnsbargles. Nefftillas. Ooompa Loompas.

by obc2 on Dec 12, 2008 11:54 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

That’s when you start sucking as bad as Jeff Suppan.

by ol Pete on Dec 12, 2008 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

So who wants Dye now?

by jacob brumfield on Dec 12, 2008 11:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

not me

even with this dire prediction of Bailey’s future, he still is a valuable commodity. this has me more inclined to deal him than i was before i read it, but Dye is not fair value regardless.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 12, 2008 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If Bailey's a 'time bomb' then only a desperate bozo of a GM would want him. Too bad he can;t play outfield.

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Sir Winston Churchill

by Madville on Dec 12, 2008 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

most GM's don't pay attention to that stuff

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Dec 12, 2008 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It would be most appropriate to trade him to the Rockies or something.

You know…black coat, white shoes, black hat…

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Dec 12, 2008 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You kids and your... 13 year old music

by Brendanukkah on Dec 12, 2008 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

jch24

We have a new challenge for you. It involves this:

Check out the article: If I die a bacon related death, I want it to be because of this

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 12, 2008 5:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

and as a dipping sauce

http://www.baconnaise.com/

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 12, 2008 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And don't forget seasoning!

http://www.baconsalt.com/

Slogan: Everything should taste like bacon!

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Dec 12, 2008 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess I wasn't aware that the makers of bacon salt and baconnaise were the same.

I love all the 12-pack/variety pack deals in their shop.

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Dec 12, 2008 5:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I have a shaker of that over my stove :)

I’m not kidding.

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Dec 13, 2008 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

wow

It’s even on topic, kinda.

Look at this. You can eat it, you can hold it in your hand, it’s elegant, it can be an entree, it can be an appetizer. This is really a 5 tool bacon. It’s the 2005 Carlos Beltrans of bacon.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 12, 2008 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yikes

Maybe the Reds had a good reason for trying to mess with his mechanics.

And what is it with the “widely reported attitude problem”? That’s the first thing you see when people write about Bailey these days. Is he really that bad?

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 12, 2008 5:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I doubt it

but Hal and Fay don’t miss a chance to point it out when they report on him. They’ve decided that it’s part of his narrative.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 12, 2008 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Everything's ornerier in Texas

by Brendanukkah on Dec 12, 2008 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

what?

Not Bubba!

Well…maybe a little.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 12, 2008 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I've heard it's true

Just a young kid with a huge ego from al the hype.

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Dec 13, 2008 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

it is easy to understand

i mean he is 22, 2 years ago he was anointed to be the saver of the franchise, and until 2007 pitching came very easy to him. I remember reading he threw 90 as a freshman in high school, so he basically dominated until he reached Cincinnati.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Dec 13, 2008 4:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Al the Hype?

Is he a wrestler or something?

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 13, 2008 7:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I hate you

You non-Redsfesting summummabitch.

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Dec 13, 2008 8:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

if it makes you feel any better, I ate a massive amount of christmas cookies

Oh, it doesn’t make you feel better? Well, it did me!

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 13, 2008 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

it being Brendan's mom?

People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.

by crolfer on Dec 15, 2008 7:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Fuck Texas and George Jr. too

and good riddance to the good ol’ boy oil tycoons toos

Texas (with some notable exceptions) should be ploughed under and regrown.

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Sir Winston Churchill

by Madville on Dec 12, 2008 9:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

but for goodness's sake

keep it there, or else the US will have to deal with MEXICANS

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Dec 13, 2008 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I've been reading a lot of these mechanical sites over the past year

I’m suspicious that there’s a good deal of pseudoscience involved.

by Red Menace on Dec 13, 2008 1:00 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

me too

I don’t trust people that use a lot of big words. It’s problematic for me to conjecture any sort of hypothesis from their manifestations and identify any significance in their inquiries.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 13, 2008 8:46 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

however,

Perhaps if we could reverse the bias directive with a turboencabulator, we could negativize the Wilson’s metric, reparameterize the bulk flow, and generate forward depleneration.

It could work.

by bbjones on Dec 13, 2008 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Are we...going back in time then?

I’s so lost.

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Dec 13, 2008 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

1975 should be about right.

Then we just have to sign Foster, Geronimo, and Griff Sr., and our outfield problems are solved.

by bbjones on Dec 13, 2008 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

John Titor to the rescue!

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Dec 13, 2008 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't call it a pseudoscience.

But it rather fails to qualify as a science – there’s no sort of scientific method to it.

Diagnostic medicine is somewhat similar – you look at raw data – and use it to come to a conclusion. ( A lot of E.O.Wilson’s work in Sociobiology has been criticized on similar grounds).

And while diagnostic medicine generally relies on better background and comparative data, it’s still useful, and maybe this is also useful.

/bullshit

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Dec 13, 2008 8:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

LOUD NOISES!

I love lamp! Me likey Mikey!!!!

by obc2 on Dec 13, 2008 9:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure what to make of them

Biomechanics is not a pseudoscience. But the way it’s applied may well be.

Would be interesting if someone with a lot of time and money on their hands actually tried plugging some data into one of those biomechanics analysis programs to see if any correlation to injury emerged.

Also interesting is that even though Mr. Boddy thinks Homer may be a guy who is just not good enough to play with the big boys, and whose shoulder and elbow are likely to explode soon…he doesn’t think the Reds should trade him for Dye.

(And I agree. I’m really hoping the Reds’ supposed plan for the outfield doesn’t mean this trade is back on.)

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 13, 2008 10:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This guy doesn't know crap

The reason Bailey lost a few MPH is because they took away his 4 seamer and he was only allowed to throw a 2 seamer.

I think its hilarious that after some hack with a website puts an article out alot fo you guys are saying “TRADE HIM, GET WHAT WE CAN!!” when last week everyone was saying “He’s the future, we need him!!”

Now I am going get back to watching Bob Ross painting his fucking barn.

by Dave from Louisville on Dec 13, 2008 10:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

My Uncle Owns a Bob Ross Original

Has the tape of the episode he painted it on and everything.

Yeah I don’t know why but I am really, really, really pulling for Homer. I mean I pull for every Red but theres something in me that needs to see this guys succeed in our uniform. I guess it has to do with him being the best Reds pitching prospect in my grandfather’s lifetime. But I guess thats like being the smartest retard or tallest midget. (Sorry for not being PC and to all the retards and midgets that post on here…)

by BigRedMechanic on Dec 13, 2008 10:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hey tHan and jch!

I think y’all just got dissed….

by obc2 on Dec 13, 2008 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You're the shortest of the three of us, Holmes

Just sayin’. :)

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Dec 13, 2008 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

shortest

and smartest. none of us are getting taller or getting smarter. beer kills brain cells dead…

by obc2 on Dec 13, 2008 9:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

smartest?

i remember winning the game of trivial pursuit…

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 13, 2008 10:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

wow, sounds like a real wild night

I’m sorry I missed it.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Dec 14, 2008 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Drunken Trivial Pursuit is fun

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Dec 14, 2008 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you should be

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 14, 2008 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's ok, justin won't get the joke anyways

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 13, 2008 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hey midget's are people too you know

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Dec 13, 2008 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm a bigger Cueto fan

have been for a couple of years now. You couldn’t pry Cueto out of my cold, dead hands. Bailey could be had fairly easily.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 13, 2008 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Did anyone know that Cueto's

middle name is Brent? How the hell did that happen?

by Joe Nolan's Glasses on Dec 13, 2008 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Johnny Brent Beck Pronto Cueto?

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Dec 13, 2008 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

also possible: jcb47

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Dec 13, 2008 7:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well

I never said he’s the future. I just don’t want to trade him for Dye. I’ve never been opposed to trading him, but this article has made more interested in the possibility. I never think from the perspective of “shopping players around.” I wouldn’t shop Homer around, but I would listen to offers on him, most definitely.

Thanks for the rant though.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 13, 2008 11:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You're mischaracterizing a few off-the-cuff responses

Sure, what this guy says is troubling but most of us admit that we’re not knowledgeable enough to evaluate his comments. I doubt anyone has completely jumped ship on Bailey just because of this post.

When we were discussing the Dye proposal, a lot of us were more concerned with the return in that Dye is an old, expensive player who isn’t a good defender. Plus, we’re not likely to compete in ‘09 so a marginal improvement like Dye wouldn’t matter. I’m not against trading Homer, but I’d rather acquire younger talent and see if he can recoup some of early luster.

by ken on Dec 13, 2008 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs

Have you ever read Gary Brecher?

that post sounds exactly like him, so you may appreciate the humor. Check it out.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Dec 13, 2008 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Homer's 2004-06 mechanics were perfect

This just began in 2007 and got worse going into the 2008 season which caused the Reds to ‘Adjust’ his mechanics somewhat. Really, if you want to examine Homer’s mechanics, you got to go back to the beginning and look what has changed.

I thought he was having mental problems.

But remember this: Homer was diagnoised with a mcl sprain, put on a knee brace and threw a outright gem in the AAA playoffs in early september. Where there is smoke, there is fire.

Why did his AAA playoff performance look exactly like his 2004-06 velocity and breaking ball version rather than the 07-08 “sick” Homer version? I mean his previous start before the mcl revelation was very poor.

A guy called “Simonknows” on Redsscout says Homer has had leg problems, most likely knee problems for 2 years starting in the fall of 2006. I don’t knnow what to believe.

I guess we will know in spring training.

by Johnnypronto on Dec 15, 2008 7:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs