Is Jocketty concerned about the defense?
When Walt Jocketty was hired on, I figured his number one priority was going to be to improve the team defense. His reputation from St. Louis was that he valued solid defense (evidence by the acquisitions of Scott Rolen, Jim Edmonds, Mike Matheny, and a variety of solid defensive 2B and SS). During his tenure with the Cardinals, his teams were consistently strong on defense, and occasionally among the top teams.
The Reds, on the other hand, have been in the bottom 5 in the Majors for team defense over the last 5 years (according to UZR). Last season they were 42 runs below average on defense, leading only the Colorado Rockies (think they missed having a healthy Tulowitzki?). And while they'll be helped by the departures of Adam Dunn (-12.8 UZR) and Ken Griffey Jr. (-12.8 UZR), it doesn't appear that Jocketty is too concerned with getting good defenders to replace them. Jay Bruce (-7.8 UZR in RF, -5.1 overall) should see some improvements, but with talk of acquiring Jermaine Dye (an average of -16.5 UZR over the last 3 seasons), Pat Burrell (-12.7 UZR 3-year avg), Juan Rivera (career -6.2 UZR/150game in limited OF playing time), and Rocco Baldelli (-2.0 UZR/150 in limited playing time for his career), the Reds don't appear focused on fixing a major problem with the 2008 team.
On top of that, it looks like the plan is to continue to use Edwin Encarnacion (-9.3 UZR) at 3B and some combination of a questionably healthy Alex Gonzalez (5.5 UZR in 2007, before a lengthy knee injury) and Jeff Keppinger (-12.7 UZR) at shortstop without any sort of a backup plan in place. If Gonzalez can regain his 2007 form, he'd be a definite upgrade over Keppinger from last year, but is there a bigger question mark player on this team right now than Gonzalez?
And let's not forget the recent acquisition of the defensively challenged Ramon Hernandez (somewhere around -9 runs on defense in 2008).
I realize the Reds need some serious help on offense. Without a major bat being added this team will have a hard time scoring 700 runs. But even if they somehow get to 750 runs on offense, if they don't improve the defense dramatically, I don't see them surrendering less than 800 runs next year. Outside of Brandon Phillips, Joey Votto, and possibly Chris Dickerson, the Reds have no plus defenders on the field at this point. Continuing to acquire crappy fielders is a step backward, even if they do boost the offense some.
Since 2009 is looking more and more like a longshot, I think any multi-year deals should be used on acquiring players who can provide a defensive upgrade. The Reds have plenty of offense brewing in the minors (Valaika, Frazier, Alonso being the big 3), but they have very little defensive help outside of Drew Stubbs. This will likely mean trading Edwin Encarnacion (I hate to say it, but I feel like that might be the right move at this point). I'd prefer to see EdE in LF in 2009, but even then, he'll have to make some big offensive strides to not be the odd-man out once Yonder Alonso is ready in 2010 or 2011.
Unfortunately I don't have any names of who to acquire. We've talked about Adrian Beltre (12.9 UZR in 2008), but we have no idea if he's available. J.J. Hardy (11.3 UZR) would be a helluva pickup, but I don't see the Brewers trading him right now. Perhaps there are some minor leaguers. Are there any minor leaguers that might fit the bill? I'm not all that familiar with other systems, especially when it comes to strong defensive players.
Comments
I mentioned this in the last thread
and got negative reaction. But Austin Kearns would be a solid Defensive addition if Walt could get him back. ’15.1 UZR in a full 07 Season, and 12.9 in a partial ’08. I could only find Alex Rios, Franklin Gutirrez, and Randy Winn with a better rating.
Find me on MySpace- http://www.myspace.com/mixfmkyle
by MixFMKyle on
Dec 11, 2008 11:59 AM EST
reply
actions
0 recs
I think it's been mentioned before
But what about acquiring Alex Rios? Didn’t someone say he was available at one point?
"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands
by BK on
Dec 11, 2008 12:08 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Not sure he's available
He just signed a 7-year deal in February of last year and has a full no trade for 2009-2010 (not sure when that officially kicks in)
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on
Dec 11, 2008 12:13 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Think we could trade them Gary Majewski and Royce Clayton for him?
What was his injury last year? I can’t recall.
Things I like about Kearns:
Still has a good walk-rate. His K-rate is below where it was when he was with Cincinnati. His line drive rate is very good. Since being with the Nats, his HR/FB rate has dropped dramatically. Maybe coming back to GABP would help that. Also, moving from the Nats park to GABP would take him from the 2nd worst 2B park for a right-hander to the best. As you said, he’s excellent defensively
Things I don’t like about Kearns:
Still guaranteed $9 million with an option for 2010 that is $10 million. Damaged goods? While he could get a boost from GABP, offensively, he’s not all that inspiring. I’m not sure I want to revisit all of the past arguments we’ve had about him.
He’s worth a look given the needs, but I think there are probably better options out there. If Jocketty could get him for a steal, I’d take him, but I wouldn’t give up anything major to get him.
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on
Dec 11, 2008 12:11 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
If the Nats land Teixeira
then I bet they’ll be looking to unload some of their bigger contracts. The Reds might be able to get Kearns without giving up anything in a trade. I recognize that it’s probably time to bury the Kearns/Dunn years, but he’s an interesting candidate.
All Mickey Mouse films are founded on the motif of leaving home in order to learn what fear is.
by Man Mountain on
Dec 11, 2008 12:24 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
i wouldnt mind bringing back Kearns
but only for peanuts. he had a BABIP/injury related awful year last year, so he could be a good bounce-back candidate (if he can stay healthy, poor guy). maybe if the Nats pay a bit of his $$ and we only send them a few fringies, i would be cool with it.
by Charlie Scrabbles on
Dec 11, 2008 12:14 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Apparently Gutierrez was available, dammit
All Mickey Mouse films are founded on the motif of leaving home in order to learn what fear is.
by Man Mountain on
Dec 11, 2008 12:18 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
yeah, but would you have given up Bill Bray and Justin Turner (assuming we still had him)
to get Franklin?
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on
Dec 11, 2008 12:21 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
probably not, but I'd think hard about it
All Mickey Mouse films are founded on the motif of leaving home in order to learn what fear is.
by Man Mountain on
Dec 11, 2008 12:26 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Cleveland also got back an interesting IF prospect
At least they did better than Seattle’s quantity > quality return
by ken on
Dec 11, 2008 4:37 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
That's why I included Turner - he was the closest prospect I could find on short notice
Seattle’s outfield is now defensively incredible. Whether that is an upgrade overall is another question though.
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on
Dec 11, 2008 4:45 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Austin Kearns is still an oaf.
by jacob brumfield on
Dec 11, 2008 12:50 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I would love for Jocketty to trade for Kearns and sign Dunn
and then resign, laughing diabolically as he leaves town.
...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield
by Cy Schourek on
Dec 11, 2008 1:35 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
And on his way out the door
Jocko says “It’s your show, now.” and tosses his keys to

"So how do like the Reds owner, Marge Schott?" - Dave Letterman
"What - she's my boss. You want me to say something bad about her?" - Chris Sabo
by PeteyHendrix on
Dec 11, 2008 2:29 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Interesting point
Building a team full of young or in its prime pitching (Harang and Arroyo aren’t exactly going to get better, although Harang should get much better results) in a bandbox stadium should require solid thought about how to limit, as well as create, runs.
Further, much of the turnaround the Rays experienced was directly related to their new-found ability to catch the ball. Still, a left or right fielder isn’t going to have a huge effect on the entire team defense. A healthy Gonzalez would be huge (or a newly signed Furcal), but the real problem is CF. Can Dickerson hit better than Patterson over a full season? I’m not sure.
I’m pretty sure this isn’t a problem Walt can solve in one season, but over the next couple of years, i would expect a greatly renewed focus on defense
by timb116 on
Dec 11, 2008 12:38 PM EST
reply
actions
0 recs
"Can Dickerson hit better than Patterson over a full season? I’m not sure"
yes. yes he can. i believe Aaron Neville wrote a song called “I dont know much, but i know Chris Dickerson will hit better than Corey Patterson over a full season”. it won a grammy or something.
by Charlie Scrabbles on
Dec 11, 2008 12:45 PM EST
up
reply
actions
2 recs
Aaron Neville's mole could hit better than Patterson over a full season.

"So how do like the Reds owner, Marge Schott?" - Dave Letterman
"What - she's my boss. You want me to say something bad about her?" - Chris Sabo
by PeteyHendrix on
Dec 11, 2008 2:32 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
yeah,
but his mole is a face-clogger.
Tanzen!
by Verka Serduchka on
Dec 11, 2008 9:50 PM EST
up
reply
actions
3 recs
I'm not convinced
The reason Corey came back from Louisville is because he was hitting and Dickerson wasn’t. Dickerson could’ve spared us four months of Two-Pitch At-Batterson…if he hadn’t been hitting .230.
I just heard today that one of my coworkers sang in a Grammy nominated song. Her choral group sang with Pete Seeger, and the song was got a Grammy nomination.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on
Dec 11, 2008 6:16 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
so one month of baseball makes you think that Dickerson can't put up an OPS+ better than 48 in 300 ABs?
There have been 24 hitter seasons that bad in the last decade. And you don’t think a guy with a career minor league line of .260/.360/.415 can top that?
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on
Dec 11, 2008 6:22 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Like the OP said
“I’m not sure.”
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?
by BubbaFan on
Dec 11, 2008 6:58 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Excellent point
Aaron Neville might hit better than CP
by timb116 on
Dec 11, 2008 12:59 PM EST
reply
actions
0 recs
Since you're new
Just wanted to point out the “Reply” button under each post. Thought I’d save you the headache of getting picked on. :)
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on
Dec 11, 2008 1:09 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
HAHA!
new guy is a loser!
you have come to the right place, welcome.
by jacob brumfield on
Dec 11, 2008 1:10 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I thought about saying that, but I didn't want to sound like a dick
Hi, hello, and welcome timb.
"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands
by BK on
Dec 11, 2008 1:15 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Welcome
I hope you like Dick jokes.
by Pops Daniels on
Dec 11, 2008 1:22 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
iI realized that after
I did it twice. Completely a loser….and to think Ioved Jake’s pesky style when he was with the Reds. Combine Bip Roberts and Jacob Brumfield into one body and you’d still have only half of Adam Dunn!
But, I will lose my loser-ish ways, I promise. Then, I’ll just be annoying for the stuff I say/write!
by timb116 on
Dec 11, 2008 1:26 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Welcome to our odd and evil world!
"So how do like the Reds owner, Marge Schott?" - Dave Letterman
"What - she's my boss. You want me to say something bad about her?" - Chris Sabo
by PeteyHendrix on
Dec 11, 2008 2:35 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I have to ask
are you Brent Beck?
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on
Dec 11, 2008 2:37 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Nope.
"So how do like the Reds owner, Marge Schott?" - Dave Letterman
"What - she's my boss. You want me to say something bad about her?" - Chris Sabo
by PeteyHendrix on
Dec 11, 2008 2:39 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I thought this WAS picking on him
Youth wins games; veteran presence wins championships!
by ben nevis on
Dec 11, 2008 1:46 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
maybe like Madville not using the reply button is his thing
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack
by justin007000 on
Dec 11, 2008 3:26 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I use the fucking reply button but it doesn't alway place my comments directly below that to which I am replying,
This is not my fucking fault…I blame Marshall McLuhan
IF IT WORKS, IT’S. OBSOLETE
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
Sir Winston Churchill
by Madville on
Dec 13, 2008 2:46 AM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
i love you madville
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack
by justin007000 on
Dec 13, 2008 3:35 AM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I'd like to hear a duet between Aaron Neville and Pete Seeger
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
Sir Winston Churchill
by Madville on
Dec 13, 2008 2:42 AM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
What's the consensus on Ibanez?
He’s not good defensively, but not nearly as much of a liability as Burrell or Dye and I think has a superior UZR to RIvera.
I got to go down to the stadium and whip batteries at the players on both teams. - Philly Boy Roy
by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on
Dec 11, 2008 1:43 PM EST
reply
actions
0 recs
Lookout Landing tends to disagree
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on
Dec 11, 2008 1:51 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Lookout Landing is a great site.
One of the few non Reds or A’s sites I’ll check out on occasion.
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey
by JJ on
Dec 11, 2008 3:11 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
pass
he’ll be 37 next year. he’s basically a left-handed Jermaine Dye.
by Charlie Scrabbles on
Dec 11, 2008 1:51 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
That just reminded me of this
From Fay:
I asked Baker free agents like Raul Ibanez or Mark Kotsay.
“No because we’re looking for a right-handed hitter,” he said.
So I think the Reds consensus is Ixnay on the Anezibay
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on
Dec 11, 2008 1:55 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
pronounced oozer
I just wanted to mention how tickled I am that MGL released UZR to fangraphs. People have asked off and on where to find defensive metrics and that’s where I’ll point them now.
by Red Menace on
Dec 11, 2008 2:55 PM EST
reply
actions
0 recs
Has anyone thought of Jack Wilson?
He has a fantastic glove, from everything that I have heard/seen, and he is definitely available.
by saboscork on
Dec 11, 2008 7:40 PM EST
reply
actions
0 recs
I see two problems with Wilson
His bat is suspect – seriously suspect. And he’s still owed about $8M (with an $8 million option for 2010). If he had Adam Everett’s glove, I’d say go for it, but the way it is, I’m less inclined to say yes.
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on
Dec 11, 2008 7:49 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Do we want Wilson's $7.85 million guaranteed contract in 2009
AND give up multiple prospects for this 31-year-old stopgap who hits below average for a starting SS?
Would it be decent insurance…if the prospects are marginal and the Pirates take half the contract?
"So how do like the Reds owner, Marge Schott?" - Dave Letterman
"What - she's my boss. You want me to say something bad about her?" - Chris Sabo
by PeteyHendrix on
Dec 11, 2008 7:48 PM EST
reply
actions
0 recs
If Cam Bonifay were still there, I'd say it's a possibility
whatever happened to that guy?
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on
Dec 11, 2008 7:50 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I think the Gians wish he was there to, so somebody would take Zito off their hands
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack
by justin007000 on
Dec 11, 2008 7:57 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I just wanted to put it out there
But if Walt did get serious about defense, Vizquel could probably be signed on a micro contract. My guess is that he is more concerned about offense given the Hernandez pickup and the fact that he didn’t go for Everett or Punto
by saboscork on
Dec 11, 2008 8:28 PM EST
reply
actions
0 recs
yeah
he’s also said that he won’t go after a shortstop as a stopgap. If they are going to acquire a shortstop it will be a young guy that they can control for cheap for a few years. I think those were his words, paraphrased obviously.
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on
Dec 11, 2008 8:31 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Et tu, Crede?
If the Reds are serious about improved defense, EdE should go to the outfield. His offense is good, but so much of it is mitigated by poor defense at 3B. I think Joe Crede could be this year’s Joe Randa, assuming his back is decent. Any word on his back?
by jamesp50014 on
Dec 12, 2008 5:50 AM EST
reply
actions
0 recs
you and your Crede love
get a room already! :)
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on
Dec 12, 2008 8:20 AM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
i can get you a permit in an hour
Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill
by chandrathan on
Dec 12, 2008 8:47 AM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Nah, Menace loves Creed
"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."
by jch24 on
Dec 12, 2008 9:27 AM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Hey, look up
there’s a joke that just went over your head.
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on
Dec 12, 2008 9:32 AM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
he doesn't watch the office
but he does like cool rock bands
Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill
by chandrathan on
Dec 12, 2008 9:34 AM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Hey, look down
there’s a joke that lives in your pants. :)
"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."
by jch24 on
Dec 12, 2008 9:40 AM EST
up
reply
actions
4 recs
After some Googling
I still don’t get the joke. But now I know there’s a character on a TV show with the same name as a really sucky band.
"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."
by jch24 on
Dec 12, 2008 9:49 AM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I think Slyde doesn't know what he's talking about
Seemed to me you got the joke. And your comeback got you a rec.
by Brendanukkah on
Dec 12, 2008 9:57 AM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I'll explain to you tomorrow
but I think you are overthinking it, which must really hurt.
We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches
by Slyde on
Dec 12, 2008 2:44 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
You know
I almost didn’t post because I’ve been all hot for Crede lately. So I’ll stop. But still, if back is solid…
by jamesp50014 on
Dec 12, 2008 6:20 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I don't think EdE's offense is "good" yet.
It might be good if he improves with age and experience. But he’s average for a starting 3Bman, and he hits BELOW average for a corner OF’er. Now tack on his sub-par defense. I say he’s a better trade chip than player…but until we land Beltre…
"So how do like the Reds owner, Marge Schott?" - Dave Letterman
"What - she's my boss. You want me to say something bad about her?" - Chris Sabo
by PeteyHendrix on
Dec 12, 2008 4:21 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Now Votto is whining that he doesn't want to play LF
Yonder can’t play LF.
This is an emerging dilemma, looks like we’re going to have to implement the DH in Cincinnati.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
Sir Winston Churchill
by Madville on
Dec 13, 2008 4:14 AM EST
reply
actions
0 recs
This ain't a democracy.
Sean Casey will be playing 1B this season, so Votto will need to shut up and change gloves. If I want Votto’s opinion on something, I’ll give it to him.
This, combined with Beltre at 3B, Furcal at SS, and a Hairston/Edmonds/Dickerson/Hopper quasi-hydra in CF will be an imperfect solution that will garner heated posts on RR between now and our first round playoff elimination…I can read the future in my big bowl of Bill Lee Cereal. Wow, we grow some tremendous stuff out here. I’m gonna go lay down.
"So are you healthy?" - PeteyHendrix, spring of 1993
"I am NOW." - Chris Sabo
by PeteyHendrix on
Dec 13, 2008 11:42 AM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
i don't really see this as a huge dilemma
both guys don’t have to be in Cincinnati. I am sure one of the two could fetch a kings ransom in a trade.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack
by justin007000 on
Dec 13, 2008 12:53 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Why don't we let the pitcher play left?
And then let Votto take the mound. I mean…he’s probably got a good arm. Why else would they have him play 1B?
Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.
by andromache on
Dec 13, 2008 1:06 PM EST
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Micah Owings can pitch from left field.
Joey can be 1st baseman and Yonder can play T-Ball Pitcher
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
Sir Winston Churchill
by Madville on
Dec 13, 2008 11:59 PM EST
up
reply
actions
1 recs




















