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Is Jocketty concerned about the defense?

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When Walt Jocketty was hired on, I figured his number one priority was going to be to improve the team defense.  His reputation from St. Louis was that he valued solid defense (evidence by the acquisitions of Scott Rolen, Jim Edmonds, Mike Matheny, and a variety of solid defensive 2B and SS).  During his tenure with the Cardinals, his teams were consistently strong on defense, and occasionally among the top teams. 

The Reds, on the other hand, have been in the bottom 5 in the Majors for team defense over the last 5 years (according to UZR).  Last season they were 42 runs below average on defense, leading only the Colorado Rockies (think they missed having a healthy Tulowitzki?).  And while they'll be helped by the departures of Adam Dunn (-12.8 UZR) and Ken Griffey Jr. (-12.8 UZR), it doesn't appear that Jocketty is too concerned with getting good defenders to replace them. Jay Bruce (-7.8 UZR in RF, -5.1 overall) should see some improvements, but with talk of acquiring Jermaine Dye (an average of -16.5 UZR over the last 3 seasons), Pat Burrell (-12.7 UZR 3-year avg), Juan Rivera (career -6.2 UZR/150game in limited OF playing time), and Rocco Baldelli (-2.0 UZR/150 in limited playing time for his career), the Reds don't appear focused on fixing a major problem with the 2008 team.

On top of that, it looks like the plan is to continue to use Edwin Encarnacion (-9.3 UZR) at 3B and some combination of a questionably healthy Alex Gonzalez (5.5 UZR in 2007, before a lengthy knee injury) and Jeff Keppinger (-12.7 UZR) at shortstop without any sort of a backup plan in place.  If Gonzalez can regain his 2007 form, he'd be a definite upgrade over Keppinger from last year, but is there a bigger question mark player on this team right now than Gonzalez?

And let's not forget the recent acquisition of the defensively challenged Ramon Hernandez (somewhere around -9 runs on defense in 2008).

I realize the Reds need some serious help on offense.  Without a major bat being added this team will have a hard time scoring 700 runs.  But even if they somehow get to 750 runs on offense, if they don't improve the defense dramatically, I don't see them surrendering less than 800 runs next year.  Outside of Brandon Phillips, Joey Votto, and possibly Chris Dickerson, the Reds have no plus defenders on the field at this point.  Continuing to acquire crappy fielders is a step backward, even if they do boost the offense some. 

Since 2009 is looking more and more like a longshot, I think any multi-year deals should be used on acquiring players who can provide a defensive upgrade.  The Reds have plenty of offense brewing in the minors (Valaika, Frazier, Alonso being the big 3), but they have very little defensive help outside of Drew Stubbs.  This will likely mean trading Edwin Encarnacion (I hate to say it, but I feel like that might be the right move at this point).  I'd prefer to see EdE in LF in 2009, but even then, he'll have to make some big offensive strides to not be the odd-man out once Yonder Alonso is ready in 2010 or 2011.

Unfortunately I don't have any names of who to acquire.  We've talked about Adrian Beltre (12.9 UZR in 2008), but we have no idea if he's available.  J.J. Hardy (11.3 UZR) would be a helluva pickup, but I don't see the Brewers trading him right now.  Perhaps there are some minor leaguers.  Are there any minor leaguers that might fit the bill?  I'm not all that familiar with other systems, especially when it comes to strong defensive players.

Poll
What should be the bigger priority for the Reds?
Offense
88 votes
Defense
78 votes
Pitching
23 votes

189 votes | Poll has closed

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Comments

Display:

I mentioned this in the last thread

and got negative reaction. But Austin Kearns would be a solid Defensive addition if Walt could get him back. ’15.1 UZR in a full 07 Season, and 12.9 in a partial ’08. I could only find Alex Rios, Franklin Gutirrez, and Randy Winn with a better rating.

Find me on MySpace- http://www.myspace.com/mixfmkyle

by MixFMKyle on Dec 11, 2008 11:59 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think it's been mentioned before

But what about acquiring Alex Rios? Didn’t someone say he was available at one point?

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 11, 2008 12:08 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not sure he's available

He just signed a 7-year deal in February of last year and has a full no trade for 2009-2010 (not sure when that officially kicks in)

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 11, 2008 12:13 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Think we could trade them Gary Majewski and Royce Clayton for him?

What was his injury last year? I can’t recall.

Things I like about Kearns:
Still has a good walk-rate. His K-rate is below where it was when he was with Cincinnati. His line drive rate is very good. Since being with the Nats, his HR/FB rate has dropped dramatically. Maybe coming back to GABP would help that. Also, moving from the Nats park to GABP would take him from the 2nd worst 2B park for a right-hander to the best. As you said, he’s excellent defensively

Things I don’t like about Kearns:
Still guaranteed $9 million with an option for 2010 that is $10 million. Damaged goods? While he could get a boost from GABP, offensively, he’s not all that inspiring. I’m not sure I want to revisit all of the past arguments we’ve had about him.

He’s worth a look given the needs, but I think there are probably better options out there. If Jocketty could get him for a steal, I’d take him, but I wouldn’t give up anything major to get him.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 11, 2008 12:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If the Nats land Teixeira

then I bet they’ll be looking to unload some of their bigger contracts. The Reds might be able to get Kearns without giving up anything in a trade. I recognize that it’s probably time to bury the Kearns/Dunn years, but he’s an interesting candidate.

All Mickey Mouse films are founded on the motif of leaving home in order to learn what fear is.

by Man Mountain on Dec 11, 2008 12:24 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i wouldnt mind bringing back Kearns

but only for peanuts. he had a BABIP/injury related awful year last year, so he could be a good bounce-back candidate (if he can stay healthy, poor guy). maybe if the Nats pay a bit of his $$ and we only send them a few fringies, i would be cool with it.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 11, 2008 12:14 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Apparently Gutierrez was available, dammit

All Mickey Mouse films are founded on the motif of leaving home in order to learn what fear is.

by Man Mountain on Dec 11, 2008 12:18 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah, but would you have given up Bill Bray and Justin Turner (assuming we still had him)

to get Franklin?

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 11, 2008 12:21 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

probably not, but I'd think hard about it

All Mickey Mouse films are founded on the motif of leaving home in order to learn what fear is.

by Man Mountain on Dec 11, 2008 12:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cleveland also got back an interesting IF prospect

At least they did better than Seattle’s quantity > quality return

by ken on Dec 11, 2008 4:37 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's why I included Turner - he was the closest prospect I could find on short notice

Seattle’s outfield is now defensively incredible. Whether that is an upgrade overall is another question though.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 11, 2008 4:45 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would love for Jocketty to trade for Kearns and sign Dunn

and then resign, laughing diabolically as he leaves town.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Dec 11, 2008 1:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And on his way out the door

Jocko says “It’s your show, now.” and tosses his keys to

"So how do like the Reds owner, Marge Schott?" - Dave Letterman
"What - she's my boss. You want me to say something bad about her?" - Chris Sabo

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 11, 2008 2:29 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Interesting point

Building a team full of young or in its prime pitching (Harang and Arroyo aren’t exactly going to get better, although Harang should get much better results) in a bandbox stadium should require solid thought about how to limit, as well as create, runs.

Further, much of the turnaround the Rays experienced was directly related to their new-found ability to catch the ball. Still, a left or right fielder isn’t going to have a huge effect on the entire team defense. A healthy Gonzalez would be huge (or a newly signed Furcal), but the real problem is CF. Can Dickerson hit better than Patterson over a full season? I’m not sure.

I’m pretty sure this isn’t a problem Walt can solve in one season, but over the next couple of years, i would expect a greatly renewed focus on defense

by timb116 on Dec 11, 2008 12:38 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"Can Dickerson hit better than Patterson over a full season? I’m not sure"

yes. yes he can. i believe Aaron Neville wrote a song called “I dont know much, but i know Chris Dickerson will hit better than Corey Patterson over a full season”. it won a grammy or something.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 11, 2008 12:45 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   2 recs

Aaron Neville's mole could hit better than Patterson over a full season.

"So how do like the Reds owner, Marge Schott?" - Dave Letterman
"What - she's my boss. You want me to say something bad about her?" - Chris Sabo

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 11, 2008 2:32 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

rec'd

and gross

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 11, 2008 11:15 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm not convinced

The reason Corey came back from Louisville is because he was hitting and Dickerson wasn’t. Dickerson could’ve spared us four months of Two-Pitch At-Batterson…if he hadn’t been hitting .230.

I just heard today that one of my coworkers sang in a Grammy nominated song. Her choral group sang with Pete Seeger, and the song was got a Grammy nomination.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 11, 2008 6:16 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so one month of baseball makes you think that Dickerson can't put up an OPS+ better than 48 in 300 ABs?

There have been 24 hitter seasons that bad in the last decade. And you don’t think a guy with a career minor league line of .260/.360/.415 can top that?

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 11, 2008 6:22 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Like the OP said

“I’m not sure.”

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 11, 2008 6:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Excellent point

Aaron Neville might hit better than CP

by timb116 on Dec 11, 2008 12:59 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Since you're new

Just wanted to point out the “Reply” button under each post. Thought I’d save you the headache of getting picked on. :)

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 11, 2008 1:09 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

HAHA!

new guy is a loser!

you have come to the right place, welcome.

by jacob brumfield on Dec 11, 2008 1:10 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I thought about saying that, but I didn't want to sound like a dick

Hi, hello, and welcome timb.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 11, 2008 1:15 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Welcome

I hope you like Dick jokes.

by Pops Daniels on Dec 11, 2008 1:22 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

iI realized that after

I did it twice. Completely a loser….and to think Ioved Jake’s pesky style when he was with the Reds. Combine Bip Roberts and Jacob Brumfield into one body and you’d still have only half of Adam Dunn!

But, I will lose my loser-ish ways, I promise. Then, I’ll just be annoying for the stuff I say/write!

by timb116 on Dec 11, 2008 1:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Welcome to our odd and evil world!

"So how do like the Reds owner, Marge Schott?" - Dave Letterman
"What - she's my boss. You want me to say something bad about her?" - Chris Sabo

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 11, 2008 2:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I have to ask

are you Brent Beck?

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 11, 2008 2:37 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nope.

"So how do like the Reds owner, Marge Schott?" - Dave Letterman
"What - she's my boss. You want me to say something bad about her?" - Chris Sabo

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 11, 2008 2:39 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I thought this WAS picking on him

Youth wins games; veteran presence wins championships!

by ben nevis on Dec 11, 2008 1:46 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

maybe like Madville not using the reply button is his thing

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Dec 11, 2008 3:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I use the fucking reply button but it doesn't alway place my comments directly below that to which I am replying,

This is not my fucking fault…I blame Marshall McLuhan
IF IT WORKS, IT’S. OBSOLETE

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Sir Winston Churchill

by Madville on Dec 13, 2008 2:46 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i love you madville

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Dec 13, 2008 3:35 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

rec'd

and this time i really mean it.

BTW does anybody have a copy of Vanilla Fudge’s version of Elanore Rigby ?

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Sir Winston Churchill

by Madville on Dec 13, 2008 4:11 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd like to hear a duet between Aaron Neville and Pete Seeger

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Sir Winston Churchill

by Madville on Dec 13, 2008 2:42 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What's the consensus on Ibanez?

He’s not good defensively, but not nearly as much of a liability as Burrell or Dye and I think has a superior UZR to RIvera.

I got to go down to the stadium and whip batteries at the players on both teams. - Philly Boy Roy

by RijoSaboCaseyWKRP on Dec 11, 2008 1:43 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lookout Landing tends to disagree

here, here, here, and here

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 11, 2008 1:51 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lookout Landing is a great site.

One of the few non Reds or A’s sites I’ll check out on occasion.

"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey

by JJ on Dec 11, 2008 3:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

pass

he’ll be 37 next year. he’s basically a left-handed Jermaine Dye.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 11, 2008 1:51 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That just reminded me of this

From Fay:

I asked Baker free agents like Raul Ibanez or Mark Kotsay.

“No because we’re looking for a right-handed hitter,” he said.

So I think the Reds consensus is Ixnay on the Anezibay

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 11, 2008 1:55 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

pronounced oozer

I just wanted to mention how tickled I am that MGL released UZR to fangraphs. People have asked off and on where to find defensive metrics and that’s where I’ll point them now.

by Red Menace on Dec 11, 2008 2:55 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Seconded

UZR along with Beyond the Boxscore’s conversion of PMR to +/- makes for two good, publicly available sources.

by ken on Dec 11, 2008 4:43 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Has anyone thought of Jack Wilson?

He has a fantastic glove, from everything that I have heard/seen, and he is definitely available.

by saboscork on Dec 11, 2008 7:40 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I see two problems with Wilson

His bat is suspect – seriously suspect. And he’s still owed about $8M (with an $8 million option for 2010). If he had Adam Everett’s glove, I’d say go for it, but the way it is, I’m less inclined to say yes.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 11, 2008 7:49 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Do we want Wilson's $7.85 million guaranteed contract in 2009

AND give up multiple prospects for this 31-year-old stopgap who hits below average for a starting SS?

Would it be decent insurance…if the prospects are marginal and the Pirates take half the contract?

"So how do like the Reds owner, Marge Schott?" - Dave Letterman
"What - she's my boss. You want me to say something bad about her?" - Chris Sabo

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 11, 2008 7:48 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If Cam Bonifay were still there, I'd say it's a possibility

whatever happened to that guy?

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 11, 2008 7:50 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think the Gians wish he was there to, so somebody would take Zito off their hands

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Dec 11, 2008 7:57 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I just wanted to put it out there

But if Walt did get serious about defense, Vizquel could probably be signed on a micro contract. My guess is that he is more concerned about offense given the Hernandez pickup and the fact that he didn’t go for Everett or Punto

by saboscork on Dec 11, 2008 8:28 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah

he’s also said that he won’t go after a shortstop as a stopgap. If they are going to acquire a shortstop it will be a young guy that they can control for cheap for a few years. I think those were his words, paraphrased obviously.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 11, 2008 8:31 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Et tu, Crede?

If the Reds are serious about improved defense, EdE should go to the outfield. His offense is good, but so much of it is mitigated by poor defense at 3B. I think Joe Crede could be this year’s Joe Randa, assuming his back is decent. Any word on his back?

by jamesp50014 on Dec 12, 2008 5:50 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you and your Crede love

get a room already! :)

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 12, 2008 8:20 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i can get you a permit in an hour

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 12, 2008 8:47 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nah, Menace loves Creed

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Dec 12, 2008 9:27 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey, look up

there’s a joke that just went over your head.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 12, 2008 9:32 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he doesn't watch the office

but he does like cool rock bands

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 12, 2008 9:34 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

After some Googling

I still don’t get the joke. But now I know there’s a character on a TV show with the same name as a really sucky band.

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Dec 12, 2008 9:49 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think Slyde doesn't know what he's talking about

Seemed to me you got the joke. And your comeback got you a rec.

by Brendanukkah on Dec 12, 2008 9:57 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll explain to you tomorrow

but I think you are overthinking it, which must really hurt.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 12, 2008 2:44 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You know

I almost didn’t post because I’ve been all hot for Crede lately. So I’ll stop. But still, if back is solid…

by jamesp50014 on Dec 12, 2008 6:20 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think EdE's offense is "good" yet.

It might be good if he improves with age and experience. But he’s average for a starting 3Bman, and he hits BELOW average for a corner OF’er. Now tack on his sub-par defense. I say he’s a better trade chip than player…but until we land Beltre…

"So how do like the Reds owner, Marge Schott?" - Dave Letterman
"What - she's my boss. You want me to say something bad about her?" - Chris Sabo

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 12, 2008 4:21 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Now Votto is whining that he doesn't want to play LF

Yonder can’t play LF.
This is an emerging dilemma, looks like we’re going to have to implement the DH in Cincinnati.

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Sir Winston Churchill

by Madville on Dec 13, 2008 4:14 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This ain't a democracy.

Sean Casey will be playing 1B this season, so Votto will need to shut up and change gloves. If I want Votto’s opinion on something, I’ll give it to him.

This, combined with Beltre at 3B, Furcal at SS, and a Hairston/Edmonds/Dickerson/Hopper quasi-hydra in CF will be an imperfect solution that will garner heated posts on RR between now and our first round playoff elimination…I can read the future in my big bowl of Bill Lee Cereal. Wow, we grow some tremendous stuff out here. I’m gonna go lay down.

"So are you healthy?" - PeteyHendrix, spring of 1993
"I am NOW." - Chris Sabo

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 13, 2008 11:42 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i don't really see this as a huge dilemma

both guys don’t have to be in Cincinnati. I am sure one of the two could fetch a kings ransom in a trade.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Dec 13, 2008 12:53 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why don't we let the pitcher play left?

And then let Votto take the mound. I mean…he’s probably got a good arm. Why else would they have him play 1B?

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Dec 13, 2008 1:06 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Micah Owings can pitch from left field.

Joey can be 1st baseman and Yonder can play T-Ball Pitcher

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Sir Winston Churchill

by Madville on Dec 13, 2008 11:59 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

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