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Around SBN: Cal RB Jahvid Best Seriously Injured, Carted Off Field

So, what's next?

Now that the Reds have filled the catcher position, Walt Jocketty must set his sights on filling some remaining holes in the roster.  The trade of Freel has made the hole in the outfield even more obvious - though did anyone really think of Freel as helping the outfield situation?  According to Fay, that looks like the place Jocketty might be focusing on next:

"We've got to find some outfielders," he said. "We'll work on that. We're still looking for that right-handed hitter. We're looking at some things to strengthen our bench. Dusty (Baker) would like have someone to come off the bench get a base hit or a home run, so we're looking for more power and experience."

With the free agent market pretty stagnant is it possible the Reds could add mid-level free agent to fill an outfield spot?

"We'll look at that," Jocketty said. "We'll look at trades, too. But if we can find free agents you don't have to give up any more players."

However, let's not forget that the Reds still need to upgrade their defense at SS and 3B, if at all possible.  And the bullpen is coming together with Cordero, Burton, Bray, Weathers, Lincoln, Roenicke, and Herrera, but the Reds are probably likely to add one more veteran to that mix.

What's your priority at this point?  Do you think the Reds should find the biggest bat they can get or do you think that upgrading the defense should be a priority? 

Should they still be looking for a CF or would you go after a masher on the corner? Can this team win with Norris Hopper as the 4th outfielder?

Will you be okay if Encarnacion is playing 3B next year? 

What if Gonzalez or Keppinger is still playing shortstop? 

Do you look at Hernandez as an upgrade to the team over last season, or filler for a hole in the roster?

Now that Freel is gone, do you want to see Cherry Hudson back on the roster?

Is the bullpen good enough for you?

Who are the top 5 players (available or rumored to be available) that you'd like to see the Reds pursue at this point?

0 recs  |  Comment 127 comments

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1st thing

- Ask the team scouts if Valaika can really handle shortstop in the majors? If so, will he be ready this year? If the answer to either of the questions is no then we have to look for an upgrade at SS. If Valaika cant play SS at the MLB level then I go after Furcal, if he can but wont be ready this year then I may look at Cabrera or someone of that Caliber on a 1 year deal.

- Resign Cherry to a 1 year deal with team option.

- We have to get another outfielder at this point but I wouldnt want to sign or trade for anyone with a long term contract. I would target Rivera of the market or go after Hermida or Thames in a trade. This gives us some time until Alonso, Dorn and Stubbs are ready at the end of the year or the beginning of next year.

by CamIam on Dec 10, 2008 9:34 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Hey BubbaFan!

The Yankees upped their offer for CC Sabathia, and looks like he’s going to New York. 7 years, ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY MILLION DOLLARS. Holllyyyy Moses.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 10, 2008 9:41 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I saw that

Kinda hard to avoid around here, actually.

My boss, a fellow Yankees fan, is afraid Sabathia is going to turn into Kevin Brown II.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 10, 2008 6:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

After what the brewers did to him last season

i’d be very hesitant to give him that kind of money

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 10, 2008 6:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, well

You didn’t have the starting rotation collapse like the Yankees’ did, with fans calling for your head for not signing Santana.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 10, 2008 6:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

we had a team that won 74 games.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 10, 2008 6:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Cashman had to do this

His plan for the Yankees was, “Grow your own pitching, buy free agent hitters.” But that exploded in his face last year. I don’t know if he’s changed his mind on his plan, or if the Steinbrenners twisted his arm, but he had to do this.

The Yankees are also pursuing Lowe, Burnett, and Sheets, and hope to sign two of those three. This is completely nuts in comparison to last year.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 10, 2008 7:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

we're looking at trading for Jermaine Dye

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 10, 2008 7:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

New York is a different world

With a larger budget…and correspondingly larger expectations.

Though FWIW, the Yankees are also in search of a right-handed CFer, and can’t find one.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 10, 2008 8:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

well

when they lose for 8 straight seasons, I’ll feel sorry for their troubles.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 10, 2008 8:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not expecting you (or anyone else) to feel sorry for them

I’m just saying…yes, the Sabathia deal is nuts, but Cashman had no choice.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 10, 2008 8:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

he had a choice

but he also had the option

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 10, 2008 8:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i dont buy that

every team needs the best pitcher in the game. but the Reds didnt have a choice. the Twins didnt have a choice. the Orioles didnt have a choice. the Yankees, they had a choice. they chose to spend their money, the money other teams dont have.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 10, 2008 8:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Yanks had a choice

Cashman didn’t. I think it was come home with Sabathia, or don’t come home at all.

Which isn’t to say he was against the signing. I honestly don’t know.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 10, 2008 8:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

if the Reds signed Sabathia to that contract

i would be ecstatic. Cashman seems like a smart guy. i bet he is too.

and i think if i were the GM of a team where the crazy rich owner kept writing me blank checks i would be mostly ok with that.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 10, 2008 8:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Cashman likes it as much as you would think

I get the impression that he feels he gets no respect as a GM because of the Yankees’ big budget. Everyone just thinks, “If I had that money, I’d win the WS every year.”

Some have speculated that that’s why he made that effort to nurture the farm system and build from within. To prove he could do it.

And of course, he doesn’t really get blank checks. The flip side of having an owner who cares enough to spend that much is that he cares enough to tell you how to spend it.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 10, 2008 9:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i can understand that

but i still think his job is infinitely easier than Larry Beinfest’s or Andrew Freidman’s.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 10, 2008 9:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But what if he could win more by just using money to buy talent in a tradtitional way?

Wouldn’t he be doing a bad job as a GM? Just to be get respect?

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Dec 10, 2008 9:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

More than one fan...

…has made that observation.

(Though the rumors that Cashman cares that much about getting respect are just that – rumors.)

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 10, 2008 9:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't

I think Sabathia is going to break down, the Brewers road him pretty hard. I am guessing in 3 or 4 years when Sabathia either has an injury or just pulls a Barry Zito the Yankee’s will have buyers remores

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Dec 10, 2008 10:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Injury would be better

The Yankees doubtless have insurance for that. I don’t think you can buy insurance for suckitude.

I think if the Yankees get three or four years out of him, they’ll be okay with that. He’s got an opt-out clause after three years.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 10, 2008 10:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Let's not act like that insurance is free.

Tack that on to the whopper of a contract…

What’s the premium on that insurance…40% of the full value of the contract? I have no idea…

"So how do like the Reds owner, Marge Schott?" - Dave Letterman
"What - she's my boss. You want me to say something bad about her?" - Chris Sabo

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 11, 2008 2:00 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It may not be free

But they’re paying it, whether they need it or not.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 11, 2008 6:31 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

do you think if he tanks he will opt out in 3 to 4 years

when he can continue to earn Barry Zito like money and put up Barry Zito like numbers?

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Dec 11, 2008 2:28 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No

But he’s only 28 and has been very durable. No arm troubles. I could see him opting out and trying to get even more money in three years. If he breaks down in year four or five or six or seven…it might not be the Yankees’ problem.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 11, 2008 6:33 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You sure ask a bunch of stupid questions
  1. The priority is recognizing where in the continuum of playing for laughs-rebuilding-contending the Reds are. Most people outside of the organization recognize they’re rebuilding; hopefully, the team agrees or else they’re either stealing or wasting our money.
  2. If you assume they cannot contend this year, they should start looking for long-term solutions. I think Stubbs is the long-term solution in CF, but I’m not comfortable with assuming Votto or EdE is the solution in LF (EdE doesn’t hit enough, and until Alonso hits against pro pitching I’m not assuming anything about him). So I guess I’d go after an under-30 year old COF.
  3. No, this team cannot win if NoHo is the 4th OF. However, they won’t win next year anyway, so it’s a moot point.
  4. Because of where the team is, and EdE’s age, I’m fine with him at 3B next year. However, even I’m starting to run out of patience.
  5. Neither AGon nor Kepp is the long-term solution at SS; how close is Valaika (and can he stick at SS)? I’d still go after Furcal.
  6. Pure filler. A swap of bad contracts. I’ve never been a Freel fan, and his extra-curricular activities were detrimental to the team; however, it doesn’t sound like Hernandez is the greatest clubhouse guy either. Maybe a change of scenery will do both some good.
  7. Hudson’s back, whether I “want to” or not. He can fake playing alot of positions, but the Reds (and Reds fans) are fooling themselves if they think he’ll be any sort of difference maker.
  8. The bullpen will be fine. They’ll sign Rhodes and then the Reds will agree with me.
  9. * Furcal
       * With all of the talk about platooning Freel with Dickerson in CF, why not do the same with Baldelli? Is his condition bad enough that he couldn’t handle it? (why won’t this format correctly?)
       * IF they could sign him long-term, Beltre
       * Hermida, but I wouldn’t give up a whole lot (big risk/reward)
       * Barry Bonds is still available.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Dec 10, 2008 9:44 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I don't get paid enough to ask smart questions

I almost think that if EdE is not the 3B or LF of the future, then trade him now. Unless he busts out the whooping stick next year, waiting another year may not be worth the risk to his trade value. I’m probably overreacting though. I need to start taking my happy pills again.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 10, 2008 9:49 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're dead on about EdE.

If we are not going to sign a LF’er who hits significantly better than EdE (Milton Bradley, Pat Burrell), then we should move EdE to LF for 2009 and trade for Beltre.

It seems to me that a lot of the names that keep coming up for LF (Thames, Baldelli, i.e.) have strikingly similar hitting stats to EdE. That’s a pointless lateral move. That’s not to say that a $2.3M flyer on Juan Rivera in late January isn’t an excellent idea…

Move him or trade him. Doing neither WILL hurt his trade value…which may be his highest value, rather than his worth between the lines.

"So how do like the Reds owner, Marge Schott?" - Dave Letterman
"What - she's my boss. You want me to say something bad about her?" - Chris Sabo

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 10, 2008 3:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Barry Bonds

I think if he has kept himself in shape he would be a good fit. You know you can bring him in on a 1 year deal and also put opt out clauses in the contract if he is a distraction. I would imagine he would like to play another year and the young guys can learn from his legendary workouts and preparation. He would also be a guaranteed draw next year at the gate.

by CamIam on Dec 10, 2008 9:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i think Bonds goes on trial during spring training

i would have signed him last year no doubt, but the distractions are too great this year.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 10, 2008 10:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't hate this idea as much as I thought I would...

but it’s still a lousy notion.

AND he IS a lefty…the lefty thing IS real, gang. If an ace lefty is facing your team and your starting lineup is stacked with lefties, you can get your ass handed to you. Not for ALL lefties – some batters have shown over time that they hit equally well off lefties and righties, and some lefties are effective pitchers against righties and lefties. But I think that there are certain lefties that can OWN even these “bi-lateral” hitters, which is the danger of throwing out a lineup such as:

L Dickerson
R Phillips
L Bruce
L Bonds
R EdE
L Votto
R Hanigan/Hernandez
R AGON/Kep/Cherry

That’s a lineup where your best hitters are being pitched around constantly. It may not be as an important factor as a dozen others, but it means something.

"So how do like the Reds owner, Marge Schott?" - Dave Letterman
"What - she's my boss. You want me to say something bad about her?" - Chris Sabo

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 10, 2008 3:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait...Bonds?

We want to build long period of time. I didn’t come here for the shot run.

by Gray on Dec 10, 2008 4:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Delmon Young! Delmon Young!

Kidding, sorta. While it’d be nice to have a big stick in LF this year I think it’s more important to keep it open in the medium-term for either EdE, Votto or Alonso. Which rules out signing anyone like Burrell, if that was ever an option.

Re-signing Hairston for one year to fill Freel’s old utility role would be fine. Apparently other teams are after him but no word on who.

by ken on Dec 10, 2008 9:50 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Maybe the Mariners

If they can’t afford Dunn.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 10, 2008 6:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Are they required to sign a former Reds outfielder?

I thought that was just the Nats.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 10, 2008 6:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

answers

i would go after a COF rather than a CF. the way the market is shaping up for these big guys, i think we could low ball a few and see if they bite. could Burrell be had on a 2 year deal? i would be comfortable giving him 2 years, 25 mil. the short term deal is a huge bonus. maybe Juan Rivera could be had on a one year deal? there are more players than teams right now, and once guys like Manny, Tex, Abreu, and Ibanez come off the board we could get mighty lucky. DONT TRADE FOR DYE!!

i think EdE should be the 3B next year. we’ve all been over the arguments for and against so many times i wont do it again.

i dont think we are contending next year, so Gonzo at SS isnt a big deal. as insurance, i would pick up Nick Punto. he cant really hit, like, at all, but his glove at SS is one of the best. also, why not let Rosales take a crack at it? (Answer: Dusty hates him.)

Hernandez is an upgrade over last year, but really only because Bako was so goddamn awful. im alright with he and Hanigan catching.

Hairston? i guess, as long as its a one year deal. im afraid though that he will show up as the real Jerry Hairston and Dusty will still start him in CF because Dickerson is better. duh. i dont know if Baldelli could cut being anything more than a spot starter/pinch hitter, so i wouldnt rely on him for anything. thats the thing with mitochondrial disorders; you just never know. but i think he is worth a try as long as the $$ is right.

i think Walt is going to sign Art Rhodes and round out the ‘pen. i think i’d rather spend that money elsewhere, but its not a huge waste. im ok with it.

top 5 targets if CS were GM:

1. cheap LF once the market thins (Manny, Ibanez, Abreu, Dunn, Burrell, Rivera…one of them is not getting asked to the prom. we have to be right there to swoop in and score the pity sex.

2. competent SS just in case Gonzo’s knee is gone-zo. i would like to trade for Hu from the Dodgers, but i cant speculate as to what kind of deal it would take to get him. or sign Punto. the fans would love him.

3. LOOGY. Art Rhodes or Dennys Reyes seem like reasonable targets.

4. Adrian Beltre. we know why.

5. Delmon Young!

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 10, 2008 10:31 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

rec'd for #1

"Patterson, Keppinger, Bako.... Cream of the Suck" -Slyde

by snohio on Dec 10, 2008 11:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If the Reds believe they can win in 2009:

1. Sign Juan Rivera to play LF. He’s a productive, 30-year-old RH bat with 20-plus HR power and solid speed and glove. If that doesn’t work, seek a deal for Delmon Young.

2. Sign Mark Kotsay to play CF is he’s not terribly expensive. If he is, re-sign Hairston and give him regular playing time. Since his age 25 season, when he’s received 215-plus ABs he’s put up acceptable numbers. If he has offers to start elsewhere, let him go. I still have a feeling we’re going to see Willy Taveras in CF if the Rockies non-tender him. Hopper’s going to be around.

3. I’m OK with EdE at 3B, but not thrilled with it. If dealing him landed the Reds a legitimate SS or CF, then OK. If not, keep him and see if he can break out this season.

4. I’d love to see Furcal at SS, but don’t see it happening. He’ll cost $13 million or so for 3-4 years. WIth Gonzalez and Keppinger on the books, the Reds aren’t likely to pony up more money at the position. Valaika’s stock at SS has improved dramatically, but he’s probably not ready for the everyday MLB job, yet. So, essentially, it looks like the Reds will hope Gonzo is healthy or will go with Keppinger.

5. I think the Reds will sign Arthur Rhodes, but won’t announce it until after the Rule 5 Draft on Thursday. I also think they’ll select a player, probably a reliever, in the draft and give him a shot in spring training.

6. Yeah, Hernandez is an upgrade. He pairs well with Hanigan. I’m fine with that.

7. Top five realistic players to pursue: LF Juan Rivera, CF Mark Kotsay, SS Rafael Furcal, LHP Arthur Rhodes, LF Delmon Young. Also, 2B Corey Wimberly (Rule 5 draft),.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Dec 10, 2008 10:49 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I don't understand

Juan Rivera? I don’t see the love.

He’ll be 30 years old, and he’s never had a season with enough PA to qualify; he’s had one season where he’s hit enough to be a starting LF. I’m sorry, but I’d pass.

On the other hand, I forgot about Delmon Young. He’s likely to hit about as well as Rivera, won’t cost $10M/yr, and it sounds like the Twins are trying to just give him away. I’d certainly sniff around.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Dec 10, 2008 11:10 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe I'm just looking for an "I told you this guy could play"

because I’ve always liked Rivera. At risk of sounding Bowdenesque, I like his tools. He’s never been given more than 448 ABs in any season but has produced when he has played (23-85-.310 .362 .525 as recently as 2006). Anaheim always had a higher-priced player ahead of him. I’d love to see what he can do if given 600 ABs.

Rivera has a terrific arm, something we haven’t had in LF for a while, and although not a base stealer he has solid speed. He doesn’t K much and has homered every 21 ABs since 2005. Coming off two injury sapped seasons, he probably won’t cost a fortune. In fact, he could be a bargain.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Dec 10, 2008 12:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If the Reds believe they can win in 2009

then it looks like your betting they try to win with poor defense up the middle. If Hernandez is the starter over Hanigan, then you’re probably correct.

I don’t see how this team can compete with Hairston getting regular starts in CF and/or Keppinger getting regular starts at SS. And with Dusty’s recent comments about Dickerson’s injury history, I think he’s priming the pump for a Taveras or Pierre.

As a poster at Redszone put it, Dusty seems to make plan B his plan A just because plan A might eventually not work.

All Mickey Mouse films are founded on the motif of leaving home in order to learn what fear is.

by Man Mountain on Dec 10, 2008 11:21 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

that's spot on

better to fail with what’s proven than to take a “risk” with the unknown and fail.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 10, 2008 11:24 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's observant and accurate.

"So how do like the Reds owner, Marge Schott?" - Dave Letterman
"What - she's my boss. You want me to say something bad about her?" - Chris Sabo

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 10, 2008 3:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Reading what Jocketty says Dusty wants...

Doesn’t that sound like we’re getting Matt Stairs?

by Brendanukkah on Dec 10, 2008 11:09 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

yep

and I wouldn’t mind Stairs as the lefty off of the bench. Be a definite upgrade over LLM.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 10, 2008 11:11 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Why are the Red Sox in the running for Teixeira?

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/mark-teixeira-1.html

Where will they play Youkilis, Teixeira, and Ortiz?

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 10, 2008 11:09 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

they will probably trade Prince Fielder to make room at first base.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Dec 10, 2008 11:12 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Easy

3B, 1B, DH.

Lowell is being held together with baling wire at this point.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Dec 10, 2008 11:13 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

they’ll probably trade Lowell to the Reds for one their very promising young prospects, like Stubbs or Frazier or Francisco. Mike Lowell is a amasing Wolrd Series MVP!!1

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 10, 2008 11:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

really?

Lowell is still owed $12M for each of the next two seasons and last season was the first in 5 years that he didn’t play 150 games. You think they’re willing to spend $160 million to fix that “problem”?

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 10, 2008 11:20 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

My sense of the situation

If you assume I have any sense at all…

Lowell’s got back problems, which can be quite problematic. I think they’ll at least attempt to move him.

You also cannot discount the fact that if Boston signs Tiex, that means New York didn’t. That has significant value also.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Dec 10, 2008 11:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

but that logic doesn't make sense to me

You don’t sign a player to one of the 5 biggest contracts in the sport before you try to trade the expensive damaged goods.

I need to stop thinking about this because the more I do the more flabbergasted I get. There was a time when $20 million was a fuckload of money.

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 10, 2008 11:46 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's probably backwards

They’ll trade Lowell if they can get Tiex; otherwise, they’ll hope for the best.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Dec 10, 2008 11:50 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

so you are saying they'd spend an enormous amount of money

before they’d dump any salary to make room for him?

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 10, 2008 11:56 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

See, there you go

They don’t need to “dump salary to make room for him”; they bleed money. They need to (and not neccessarily in this order):

  1. Get him because he’s the best hitter out there, and they feel they have a need
  2. Keep him away from the Yankees

These two teams play an entirely different game than every other team in the majors, because they’re trying to not just make their own team better, but also keep the other team from doing the same. And they’re not afraid to pay huge sums of money to do it.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Dec 10, 2008 12:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

that's exactly why this deal bothers me

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 10, 2008 12:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think the Yankees are signing Teixeira

They’ve got Swisher. They aren’t signing Teixeira too, fannish fantasies to the contrary.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 10, 2008 6:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Right

And in two years Lowell and maybe Ortiz will be gone. Youk will still be at 3B, Tex at 1B, and someone like Lars Anderson will DH. For a team with the money it makes sense.

by ken on Dec 10, 2008 11:20 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

seems ridiculous to me

even if you’ve got the money

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 10, 2008 11:21 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not really

In the near-term they should have a contingency for Lowell. This is a very effective albeit expensive one (and it’s not my money). Longer-term, the Sox may be recognizing that talents like Teixeira aren’t going to make it to free agency with their signing teams locking them up, at least not in their late 20s/early 30s. So you may as well grab one now, especially while the market’s cheap.

by ken on Dec 10, 2008 11:24 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

cheap?

Just because he’s not getting a raise over what Manny got 7 years ago doesn’t make it cheap. We’re talking about spending $20 million a year to fill a position that they already have filled over the next two seasons. I’m not a woe is me small market guy, but something like this would turn me into one real quickly. What you are suggesting that the Red Sox spend at least $50 million each of the next two years to have 4 guys play 3 positions, with at least one of them always on the bench. And this doesn’t seem outrageous?

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 10, 2008 11:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

that and he is a real American.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Dec 10, 2008 11:57 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

As a Liverpool fan, his assessment is hitting way, way too close to home

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 10, 2008 12:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

In Liverpool, if you don't get hit close to home

you get knifed

All Mickey Mouse films are founded on the motif of leaving home in order to learn what fear is.

by Man Mountain on Dec 10, 2008 12:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The other part

You have to remember, the Red Sox are now the Yankees v.2: The season is seen as a failure if they don’t win the WS. With Lowell and Ortiz both fighting injury last year (and ’07 is now looking like an outlier for Lowell), they need the insurance.

Despite what Epstein & Co. want you to believe, they’ve shown they’ll do whatever it takes.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Dec 10, 2008 11:48 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If Valaika can handle SS, he can handle 3B too...right?

If so, maybe the Reds could trade Edwin to the Twins for Delmon Young. Not that I don’t like Edwin, it’s just that it seems invevitable that the Reds will get rid of him. Then sign Furcal to a 2-3 year deal. I don’t think he will cost THAT much considering his injury history and the current economics. Keppinger and Gonzalez would play 3B until Valaika is ready.

Delmon Young and Jay Bruce would be awesome…both are cheap potential superstars.

Dickerson would play CF until Stubbs is ready. Then, Dickerson would be the Reds 4th outfielder, the spot where he is best suited.

Those are just some ideas. Since the Reds suck so much, there about a million ways to improve the team.

by Snake the Jake on Dec 10, 2008 12:01 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Valaika wont be ready until Sept at the earliest

i wouldnt count on him to do anything for the big league club this year. and moving him to 3B isnt a good idea, IMO. i think his bat and defense are better suited to 2B, but it seems more and more that scouts are saying he could stick at SS. keep him at SS if at all possible. as for the Furcal offer, he just turned down 4 years at 10-11 mil from the A’s, so i dont think 2 or 3 years will do it.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 10, 2008 12:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

maybe...

Supposedly, it was a 4 year $48 million deal. That came from a newspaper based out of the Dominican Republic, and that rumor was later referred to as “bogus.” Who knows?

I’m not so sure about Delmon Young anymore. I still like him but he can’t take a walk to save his life. I think he has to put it together some time though.

I think Valaika will be in the majors some time around the all star break, for some reason or another. He is better suited for 2B, but the Reds can’t play 2 there.

by Snake the Jake on Dec 10, 2008 12:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Keep Valaika at SS until he proves he can't play there.

I don’t see him as having anough power for 3B. He can play 2B and with Turner out of the system he might be the Reds future there. I agree, though, that I don’t see him up before some time late in the season.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Dec 10, 2008 12:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not getting all the Furcal love

Four years for a 31 year-old SS with a bad back? That’s not a risk this team can take.

by ken on Dec 10, 2008 2:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

he can take Freel's place as the teams drunken driver.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Dec 10, 2008 2:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ideally, it would only be a 2 year deal

I doubt that will happen but it’s possible

by Snake the Jake on Dec 10, 2008 3:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If he turned down more money and more years elsewhere,

then it seems like you’d have to be a bit of a homer to believe he’d come to a rebuilding team for less. I’m with ken:

Four years for a 31 year-old SS with a bad back? That’s not a risk this team can take.

"So how do like the Reds owner, Marge Schott?" - Dave Letterman
"What - she's my boss. You want me to say something bad about her?" - Chris Sabo

by PeteyHendrix on Dec 10, 2008 5:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He turned down more money according to a newpaper in the Dominican Republic

Does Dye play for the Reds? Someone said the Reds traded for him. It must be true.

I wouldn’t do 4 years either.

by Snake the Jake on Dec 10, 2008 5:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

His last contract: 3 years / $39 million

Salaries have gone up since then, but so has his age and his visits to the disabled list.

by Snake the Jake on Dec 10, 2008 5:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He turned down 4 years/$36 million from the A's

I’m guessing he’s looking for $48 million and will probably end up settling for something more like $40 million. And it won’t be from the Reds, though I’d be okay with that move. Furcal would fill the voids at leadoff and shortstop and really improve the defense, hopefully boosting Edwin into a sufficient fielder at 3B. He’s a switch hitter, he’s got speed, power, and pretty solid plate discipline, and he’s both from the Dodgers and Hispanic, meaning Dusty will really love him. It’s actually a move that makes some sense for the Reds if they’re going to make any noise in free agency. I’d take that over a similar amount of money for someone like Burrell or Abreu or Bradley.

by Geki on Dec 10, 2008 6:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

i’ve wanted the reds to sign furcal for a while.

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Dec 10, 2008 6:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I have a feeling that free agents aren't going to do too hot this year

CC Sabathia did well but K Rod didn’t get what he wanted. We’ll see.

by Snake the Jake on Dec 10, 2008 6:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We all know the primary target.

The number one priority for this team is a speedy right-handed centerfielder who never gets on base, preferably with lots of veteran presence.

We want to build long period of time. I didn’t come here for the shot run.

by Gray on Dec 10, 2008 12:52 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Doug Glanville?

Oh yeah, Willy Taveras is available.

"Yes, and it's so important in this sport that the athletes be able to train in the same location." -Cynthia Potter, NBC Synchronized Diving Analyst

by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Dec 10, 2008 1:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Uh oh

Juan Pierre isn’t right handed, is he?

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 10, 2008 1:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rumor has the Metsl ooking into

acquiring Pierre. Oh, I hope so.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Dec 10, 2008 1:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Owings for Hermida?

the idea was spitballed by Mike Berardino earlier today. i would love to see Owings at least throw a pitch for the Reds, but i would at least have to think about this one.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 10, 2008 1:18 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Does anyone have a scouting report on Hermida?

I don’t see how he would be worth an arm? he has some pretty low OBPs? I am going to post more statements as questions?

No bees? Then who will sting me and walk on my sandwiches?

by The Crushinator on Dec 10, 2008 1:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Part of me says Hermida is exactly the kind of guy

the Reds should go after — young, talented, inexpensive first-round draft pick with some MLB experience and a decent, albeit short, track record. Another part of me says don’t give up a player such as Owings for another LHH, below-average fielder when you can sign Juan Rivera without losing anything. There. Glad I cleared that up.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Dec 10, 2008 1:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I imagine it'd take something along with Owings.

Hermida’s only a few years removed from being the #2 prospect in baseball and he’s shown a degree of major league success. He has issues (namely, making contact) but I still imagine his value is higher than that of Owings. He’s also a lefty, which runs against what we’ve been led to believe the Reds are seeking.

All that said, I’d be just fine with picking up Hermida. I doubt he ever becomes a star but he’s a solid defender who can take a walk and hit a homer, and the move from Dolphins Stadium to GABP would help him out quite a bit I imagine (his career OPS on the road is over 100 points higher). Owings and another arm (Thompson, Ramirez, Roenicke are names that come to mind) could probably get it done.

Oh yeah, what’s up guys?

by Geki on Dec 10, 2008 1:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Whoa, Geki sighting

Long time no see.

"Yes, and it's so important in this sport that the athletes be able to train in the same location." -Cynthia Potter, NBC Synchronized Diving Analyst

by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Dec 10, 2008 1:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks.

I’ve had a ridiculously busy few months but I just couldn’t go without you guys any longer. I wish I could quit you, RR.

by Geki on Dec 10, 2008 1:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think that brokeback reference was fresh back when you last posted here

zing!

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 10, 2008 1:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not necessarily

Brokeback references are always fresh when jch and ’tHan are around.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 10, 2008 1:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

'tHan is my holemate

….until I finally meet you of course.

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Dec 11, 2008 6:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

good to see you Geki

i was starting to worry about you.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Dec 10, 2008 2:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Welcome back dude

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Dec 11, 2008 6:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And now Berardino's saying the Reds haven't talked to the Marlins about Hermida

Meanwhile, Ken Rosenthal leaves us with the comforting thought that Dye talks are not dead. He does mention the Reds possibly taking a shot at Abreu or Burrell, which I’m all for, but that seems to be speculation.

by Geki on Dec 10, 2008 1:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Just threaded this one

http://www.redreporter.com/2008/12/10/688601/rumor-mill-jeremy-hermida

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 10, 2008 1:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rosenthal's latest on the Reds and Dye, Burrell and Abreu:

1:11 p.m. — ChiSox, Reds still talking Dye
The Jermaine Dye-to-the-Reds discussions continue at a “moderate” level, but for the moment the White Sox continue to plan on Dye being their Opening Day right fielder, according to a major-league source.

A deal for Dye was indeed close before Thanksgiving, the source said, with the White Sox expected to receive right-hander Homer Bailey and perhaps another prospect in return.

The trade, however, stalled in part due to questions about how much the White Sox would pay of Dye’s $11.5 million salary next season. The amount they paid would have affected the quality of the second prospect in the deal.

Now, the Reds simply might wait to determine whether they can sign a free-agent outfielder such as Bobby Abreu or Pat Burrell at a comparable salary without giving up any players in a trade.

Neither Abreu nor Burrell was offered salary arbitration by their former clubs, so neither would cost the Reds a draft pick.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Dec 10, 2008 1:28 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

This is our plan!

We land Dye that is our plan. Walt is flirting and convincing KW he will not get a better offer which is true.

Whether you agree with this move or not, I enjoy watching Walt work. I really really like having him as our GM.

Personally I like the move, because it
1. Dusty proofs the roster
2. I think he will be very good in the NL, and maybe preform close to his career #’a

by Dave from Louisville on Dec 10, 2008 10:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Without reading any of the replies......

1) Sign Furcal. Spend the big money, honey. Solves leadoff hitter and SS positions. Sea Bass is a sunk cost and it will return Kepp to a utility role, which is best for him.

2) Put Homer’s ass in the pen, with Roenecke and Burton and Koko. Then start playing the J. Giles Band on the PR, baby. ("Flame…..yame….yame….yame…thrower, red hot thrower tonight!)

4)Put Stubbs in CF, Dickerson in LF.

5)Hire Slyde as a Sabermetrician guru in the front office. I think Slyde Bobblehead Night after the Reds win the ‘11 WS would be warranted. And I’d get drunk off my ass…

by obc2 on Dec 10, 2008 1:47 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

but Walt would freeze Slyde out

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Dec 10, 2008 2:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, but the last stats-oriented guy Walt didn't like

wound up with Walt’s job in St. Louis. Slyde for GM?

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Dec 10, 2008 3:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No thanks

Not unless my mom can cook for me at the ballpark. Her mac ’n cheese is amazing!

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 10, 2008 3:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

amasing!

All Mickey Mouse films are founded on the motif of leaving home in order to learn what fear is.

by Man Mountain on Dec 10, 2008 3:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Fay suggests Mark DeRosa

since the Cubs are possibly looking to deal him to make payroll room for Jake Peavy.

1. Any interest in DeRosa?
2. Would you make a trade if you knew it would allow a major adversary to improve their team drastically with another deal?

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 10, 2008 1:50 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Nope.

I know he kills the Reds, so if Cincinnati trades for him and Bill Hall … nah, never mind.

I don’t want to help the Cubs and DeRosa’s 33. I don’t see him being as productive in the future. I’d prefer Hermida or Juan Rivera. Have I mentioned Juan Rivera, by the way?

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Dec 10, 2008 2:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

DeRosa is a BALLPLAYER

he could play on my team any day.

by obc2 on Dec 11, 2008 1:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

are you calling him gay?

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Dec 11, 2008 2:28 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Lydmullia can play on my team any day.

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Sir Winston Churchill

by Madville on Dec 12, 2008 1:03 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

By the way,

putting together multiple sources, it appears Arthur Rhodes is expeced to make a decision in 24-48 hours. The contenders are Cincinnati, St. Louis and Arizona. One source, I don’t remember which, indicated Rhodes prefers the Cardinals but is leaning toward the Reds because Walt is offering more money.

If the money gets too high, I’d much rather have Dennys Reyes.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Dec 10, 2008 2:05 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

yep

We’’re in process of trying to a guy with a trade record of working with pitches

by Slyde on Dec 10, 2008 2:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I vote for improve the defense

It was the biggest weakness last year (last in the league in defensive efficiency).

I don’t think there’s anything to be done at catcher or SS. (At least on the trade or free agent markets.) So I say get a good CFer. One with a good OBP, because you know Dusty will bat him leadoff.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 10, 2008 6:31 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

My thoughts

Jeremy Hermida- As Slyde has said, this guy has a good deal of upside and would be a relatively low risk investment.

I still feel like we need to make a play on a decent reliever. Maybe a Juan Cruz or a lefty specialist like Dennys Reyes. (Not a high priority for me right now)

We need to keep Hairston… unless we can get a hold of a legit shortstop… a healthy Furcal or someone.

People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.

by crolfer on Dec 10, 2008 10:09 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Can't you play SS...I bet you hit as well as Janni

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Sir Winston Churchill

by Madville on Dec 10, 2008 10:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

why is the ad on this page for a Russian Women dating service?

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Dec 10, 2008 10:12 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Uhh... it looked at your browser history?

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Dec 10, 2008 10:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

But it's the ad for me too...

…and there’s clearly nothing in my browser history —-

Oh. Right. Nevermind.

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Dec 10, 2008 10:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

mmmm. Lydmullia

Love those Ukrainian babes

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Sir Winston Churchill

by Madville on Dec 10, 2008 10:28 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

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