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Really?

Khalil Greene?

OK, he's younger than AGon.  Plus, thoughout his career, he's been a better hitter.  Finally, he should be a defensive upgrade.

But:

1.  His OPS+ last year (63) was about the same as Bako's (62) and worse than Keppinger's (70); I thought the idea was to improve the offense.
2.  That was before the dumbass broke his hand being a dumbass.
3.  He's going to make alot more than AGon next year (both have 1 year remaining on their contracts).  Hell, he's going to make more than AGon and Kepp combined, even including AGon's buyout at the end of the year.

Unless the Pads were taking AGon back (why would they?), the Reds would end up with $12M+ worth of SS giving them only slightly better production than the $5.5M SS is likely to give them anyway, plus they'd obviously have to give something up in talent to make the trade.

I need some convincing that this is a good idea.

 

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Well

He doesn’t walk much and he was 9th in the league in outs on ‘07, so maybe it’s just trying to fill the Patterson void.

Vote Pops in '08. I promise nothing and I'll do it!

by Pops Daniels on Nov 4, 2008 11:06 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Greene

He isn’t the best hitter in Petco, but outside of last year he has hit very well on the road. If they are willing to take on some of the salary, I wouldn’t be completely opposed to the idea.

by dougdirt on Nov 4, 2008 11:16 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In my attempt to over-use Justin's work

Here are his numbers for the last 5 years:

Year   RAR  Field  TtlVal
2005 10.5 0.2 15.0
2006 10.2 3.1 17.4
2007 19.2 10.7 35.6
2008 -9.6 4.5 -1.2

"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling

by Slyde on Nov 4, 2008 11:24 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

K. Greene had 27 HRS in 07

I would have never guessed. Is OPS Away excluding last year .840(07) .863(06) 772(05) .895(04) 986(03). Those are way better numbers than I would have ever expected.
But the obvious question is why was he so bad last year and can Dusty fixem.
But if you take the 06-07 Greene in Great American and you are talking about a real stud. The 08 Greene is like Kep with a busted knee cap.
The price is right if he is anywhere close to his 04-07 performance level at 6.5 million one year. Have Kep/Gonzo platton 3rd base/ EE to LF and you are off and running.

by davidmac84 on Nov 4, 2008 1:54 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

um,

no mention of his incredibly sexy hair?

What do you mean, "blank slate"?

by boobs on Nov 4, 2008 11:29 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

already got bronson

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Nov 4, 2008 11:33 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's a jihadist Muslim, I mean check out his name.

Plus he’s white – should fit in nicely in cincinnati

We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security.

~Dwight D. Eisenhower

by Madville on Nov 4, 2008 11:54 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was going to say the same thing.

They can market him in Cincinnati because he has long hair and is white. It’s sad, but true.

by Brian B on Nov 4, 2008 11:49 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

another nugget from TradeRumors

the Indians want a young closer for Shoppach. would a Burton/Shoppach swap be something the Reds should look at? is that even a fair deal?

"If you don't get the President of the United States on that phone, you know what's gonna happen to you? You're gonna have to answer to the Coca-Cola company."

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 4, 2008 12:31 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The article MLBTR links to is from boston.com

And the “young closer type” in question is the Sox Justin Masterson.

I like Burton, but if he’s all it takes to get Shoppach then the Reds should do that deal ASAP.

Then 'twas the Roman, now 'tis I.

by Man Mountain on Nov 4, 2008 12:59 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I like that

maybe throw in one of the 5th pitchers, too. Or even better, Dorn.

As much as the Reds Need Relivers and all, a solid catcher is a hwole lot more important.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Nov 4, 2008 1:01 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Shoppach was on my silent wishlist

I just didn’t think the Indians would give him up, although I guess a healthy Victor Martinez makes him somewhat expendable.

by Brendanukkah on Nov 4, 2008 2:59 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not bad for his first almost full year

Year Tm G AB R H HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG *OPS+
2008 CLE 112 352 67 92 21 55 36 133 .261 .348 .517 123

Shoppach will be 29 next year. I see him as a back up or platoon guy. Maybe a starter for the Reds as we always try to find guys who are late bloomers or are resurrecting their careers. BUT Burton was the answer to an 8th inning problem last year and may well be our closer if any problems occur with Coco. I don’t see why we would want to give up Burton – who’d replace him and his role?

We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security.

~Dwight D. Eisenhower

by Madville on Nov 4, 2008 1:31 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How about "Ramon Rameriz"?

Every catcher is going to be a “platoon guy,” and Shoppach is a bit of a question mark with regard to his on base skills, but his power is for real.

If Shoppach and Hanigan are the Reds catching unit next season, then the Reds will have something enviable at that position.

As good as Burton has been the last two seasons, he’s still a relief pitcher and you have to give up something to get something.

Then 'twas the Roman, now 'tis I.

by Man Mountain on Nov 4, 2008 2:42 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

To your thought on trading Ramon ...MM

I really like Rameriz’s composure and general emotional make up. He’s really competitive and doesn’t have any problem throwing strikes. I think he’s just going to get better and better as he learns the art of pitching. So maybe Maloney or Bailey would be possibilities.

We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security.

~Dwight D. Eisenhower

by Madville on Nov 4, 2008 3:20 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't think we should count on Kepp

to be a productive everyday starter on a winning team. He’s a nice utility, type guy who can play slightly below average defense at all 4 infield positions. However last year he was the 4th worst shortstop according to the FIP system. Hairston was 12th by the way…

Find me on MySpace- http://www.myspace.com/mixfmkyle

by MixFMKyle on Nov 4, 2008 2:01 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Where have you been?

I have been missing your sweet action.

by jacob brumfield on Nov 4, 2008 3:20 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ha.

Ive been working. A lot. I still check a lot, but don’t get around to posting as much.

Find me on MySpace- http://www.myspace.com/mixfmkyle

by MixFMKyle on Nov 4, 2008 3:29 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kepp would have been much better utilized at 2B. With BP at 3rd.

But everyone already knows that except Dusty.

We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security.

~Dwight D. Eisenhower

by Madville on Nov 4, 2008 3:22 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If the price is right...

I like the move because Greene is a very good hitter and is a pretty solid defender as well. This could be a huge upgrade, but it all depends on the price

by NeifiChicken on Nov 4, 2008 3:20 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

File Under: Front Offices Continue to Fuck with Peter Gammons

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3681876&name=gammons_peter

Scroll down for this:

2. Russell Martin. Some Dodger officials have spread the word that Martin will either be traded or moved to third base, with a Jason Varitek signing a possibility. Whether or not it actually happens will be interesting to see, but teams looking for catching, like the Red Sox, will do a headfirst dive to get in on Martin, who turns 26 in February.

As insane as this sounds, it seems to have gotten some traction elsewhere on the calm and level oceans of the internet. Apparently, the Dodgers might not be happy with Martin’s “make up.” Same thing with Matt Kemp. Whatever.

The Dodgers do some silly, silly things, but IF they’re being smart here they’re probably looking to start a prospect/young starter bidding war between teams with bad catching situations. The wrinkle would be unloading one (both) of their bad outfield contracts in the Martin trade.

Regardless, Jocketty ought to be all over this.

Then 'twas the Roman, now 'tis I.

by Man Mountain on Nov 4, 2008 4:30 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If the Reds somehow got Martin

I’d do something outrageously spontaneous and wacky to express my gratitude.

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Nov 4, 2008 4:38 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Question

would you take Andruw Jones in a deal for Russell Martin? (don’t worry about who the Reds give up, assume it is palatable)

"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling

by Slyde on Nov 4, 2008 4:45 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

At the risk of recording my stupidity here for posterity...

yes.

I know Jones looks as cooked as any former All-Star can, but, but, but what if he weren’t…

Then 'twas the Roman, now 'tis I.

by Man Mountain on Nov 4, 2008 4:54 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well, if it makes you feel any better (it shouldn't)

I would too. It’s only a one year contract and the Reds would have Martin for at least 4 more years.

"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling

by Slyde on Nov 4, 2008 4:59 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no doubt about it

Martin for 4 years is worth way more than the 18 mil plus whatever salary he would make over that time. and you never know, Andruw may clean it up. and Kepp may turn into Cap Anson.

"If you don't get the President of the United States on that phone, you know what's gonna happen to you? You're gonna have to answer to the Coca-Cola company."

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 4, 2008 5:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You mean Kepp would become a flat out racist?

"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling

by Slyde on Nov 4, 2008 5:13 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

100 year old ghosts are notoriously reluctant to break bad habits

"If you don't get the President of the United States on that phone, you know what's gonna happen to you? You're gonna have to answer to the Coca-Cola company."

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 4, 2008 5:20 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What's sad is....

I think I would too. He could rot in CF or LF this year until Stubbs is ready.

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Nov 4, 2008 5:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't know if the Dodgers would be interested in EdE

but I’d tolerate Jones in CF, Dickerson in LF and somebody covering 3B if it got us Martin. Obviously it would take more than just EdE, but I’d give up one of Thompson/Bailey and two more from the group of anybody but Soto/Frazier/Valaika (Alonso can’t be traded).

"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling

by Slyde on Nov 4, 2008 5:31 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

BP?

Then 'twas the Roman, now 'tis I.

by Man Mountain on Nov 4, 2008 5:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

BP for Martin

im all over that

"If you don't get the President of the United States on that phone, you know what's gonna happen to you? You're gonna have to answer to the Coca-Cola company."

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 4, 2008 5:37 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

perhaps

my thinking is that with Martin coming in the offensive loss of EdE would be absorbed – and Martin may actually be good enough to improve the offense even with EdE’s loss. I’d be concerned about the defense with BP gone. They’d have to sign O-Dawg then, and I think BP is much better than him.

BTW, Martin’s full name is Russell Nathan Coltrane Jeanson Martin. How much fun could we have with that?

"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling

by Slyde on Nov 4, 2008 5:37 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Coltrane!

40% of the time it works every time!

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Nov 4, 2008 5:40 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Then 'twas the Roman, now 'tis I.

by Man Mountain on Nov 4, 2008 5:42 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Which is funny, because I was about to post:

“Everybody knows that Andruw Jones was the worst player in the majors last year with regard to production relative to salary. What my post supposes is… maybe he wasn’t?”

by Brendanukkah on Nov 4, 2008 5:55 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

40% of 'Trane > all ofther Tenor players at 100% (exceptin' Rhassan Roland Kirk)

1957 – Kind of Blue w/Mile Davis, Cannonball,Gil Evans and the boys – Coltrane explodes

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Sir Winston Churchill

by Madville on Nov 8, 2008 1:26 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think his dad played the saxomophone

That explains one of the three middle names.

I feel like I heard complaints about Martin’s pitch-calling during the postseason, which may be why they’re shopping him. He clearly did a terrible job this year managing Billingsley, Lowe, etc.

by ken on Nov 4, 2008 5:40 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tubamama? Drumumums?

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Nov 4, 2008 5:41 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oboe-maboe

"If you don't get the President of the United States on that phone, you know what's gonna happen to you? You're gonna have to answer to the Coca-Cola company."

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 4, 2008 6:23 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ge gg ga ggg

that ain’t no saxophone! That’s Flash!

by bbjones on Nov 6, 2008 7:00 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Martin as back-up ?

We’d be better of with Shop-vac. Doesn’t anyone think Hannigan will develop?
Other than me…yeah he’s 28 and doesn’t have the experience…but the guy is so intense and competitive and seems to call a decent game. Plus he’s cheap. Looks like could hit .250 and be a strong defensive catcher.

We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security.

~Dwight D. Eisenhower

by Madville on Nov 4, 2008 6:20 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Martin as a backup?

The wig powder has finally taken it’s toll.

"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling

by Slyde on Nov 4, 2008 6:54 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't get it

esplane pleez slyde

We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security.

~Dwight D. Eisenhower

by Madville on Nov 4, 2008 9:46 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

there is no way Martin should be used as a backup

He’s a 25-year old All Star catcher. If acquired, he starts.

"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling

by Slyde on Nov 4, 2008 10:30 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rec'd

I don’t know who I was thinking of, but after checking Martin’s stats I can only say whoops! He does look pretty good.

We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security.

~Dwight D. Eisenhower

by Madville on Nov 5, 2008 8:17 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

AJ Burnett is opting out of his contract

And the Yankees are cutting Jason Giambi and Carl Pavano loose.

Oh, and Selig has warned GMs about the financial crisis.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Nov 4, 2008 8:00 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

don't you kinda hate Scott Boras

i mean i realize he is doing his job and is very good at it, but people like himself and owners kinda make me sick.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Nov 5, 2008 1:20 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you know making $20M isn't enough

when a player can make $25M. Like fucking seriously. What the hell difference does it make.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Nov 5, 2008 3:12 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He can go into any restaurant

and order anything on the menu.

Vote Pops in '08. I promise nothing and I'll do it!

by Pops Daniels on Nov 5, 2008 3:31 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Two, count'em Two McRibs for lunch!

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Nov 5, 2008 4:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't do it

I’m STILL paying the price for that. And I don’t even eat them with pickles or onion.

Also, I don’t know what they make those things out of but I’m fairly certain it’s never oinked.

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Nov 5, 2008 5:10 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

*didn't, not don't

Yesterday was the first (then second) McRib I had ever eaten.

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Nov 5, 2008 5:10 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You've gotta get as many as you can while they last

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Nov 5, 2008 5:14 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Now Justin,

you know that under this new fangled spread the wealth program Juan Castro and A-Rod will be making the same amoount of money.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Nov 6, 2008 4:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

interesting

the White Sox may be shopping Nick Swisher. he had a really bad year this past year, but most of that was due to a low BABIP. he’s a pretty solid rebound candidate. the Sox are said to be looking for a CF. Dickerson perhaps?

"If you don't get the President of the United States on that phone, you know what's gonna happen to you? You're gonna have to answer to the Coca-Cola company."

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 5, 2008 12:03 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In a heartbeat

He’s got 3 years left on a favorable contract with a reasonable option for a fourth year. The Sox would be silly to sell low.

by ken on Nov 5, 2008 1:01 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It also says the Sox are interested in Willy Taveras

Hopefully they pick him up before Dusty finds out he’s available

by bengalred on Nov 5, 2008 1:12 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LOL

seriously!

Reds fan for 40 years!

by gejoe on Nov 7, 2008 9:44 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What about...

Jeff Francoeur?? Classic buy low and another rebound canidate. Former gold glove winner, only 4 errors last season (.987). Oh and this Bonus.

by jacob brumfield on Nov 5, 2008 1:13 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I remember when he hit the holy Hell out of a ball from Milton

Like, so hard even he couldn’t believe it.
Unfortunately, he can’t take a walk and kinda sucks.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Nov 5, 2008 2:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he would go great with Brandon Phillips

the all defense, power, and no plate discpline team. I bet Marty would fucking love him though.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Nov 5, 2008 3:16 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why fuck around with rebound candidates....

Either trade some prospects for a quality player or suck it up and develop from within.

We’ve been bringing retreads for way too long. Sure some of them like Rich Aurilia weren’t bad but guys like Chad Moeller, Bake, Reese Clayton, Corey etc have done very little to help this team solidify and be able to compete consistently
Although this guy was special .

We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security.

~Dwight D. Eisenhower

by Madville on Nov 5, 2008 3:41 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I wish I could make out your pictures

How do you consistently shrink them and screw up the text/picture formatting?

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Nov 5, 2008 5:12 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

mixing beer and liquor

I think.

"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling

by Slyde on Nov 5, 2008 5:29 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Never sicker, dude

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Nov 5, 2008 5:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sorry jch - I'll work on making them smaller but clearer

The above picture is of Barack Obama is a Josh Hamilton costume.

Below is a picture of the famous Detroit girl group ‘The Supremes’

Hope that clears things up

We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security.

~Dwight D. Eisenhower

by Madville on Nov 6, 2008 7:25 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

See? That was perfect!

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Nov 6, 2008 9:30 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sorry to disappoint you Sid

but Khalil Greene is not coming to Cincy. Walt says he is looking for a SS in case Gonzo cant do it, but one that is not as expensive dollar-wise as Greene would be.

"If you don't get the President of the United States on that phone, you know what's gonna happen to you? You're gonna have to answer to the Coca-Cola company."

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 6, 2008 6:17 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I can live with that reasoning

What a picture of domestic tranquility... Hemlock on the hearth and my wife feeding the piranha.

by Man Mountain on Nov 6, 2008 7:10 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No need to be sorry

Like I said, I needed convincing it was a good idea.

However, considering it was reported by two different writers, there may be more to what was going on than what Jockety let on.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Nov 6, 2008 7:48 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sorry Sid

i guess my sarcasm wasnt clear enough.

and im with you on the “more than what Jocko let on” business. i wouldnt be surprised at all if Walt had inquired and was met with a steeper price tag than he first assumed. but in the end Greene is not coming here, and thats the important thing.

"If you don't get the President of the United States on that phone, you know what's gonna happen to you? You're gonna have to answer to the Coca-Cola company."

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 6, 2008 8:07 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't want no Jihadist anyhoo...

Khalil Hussein Greene

We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security.

~Dwight D. Eisenhower

by Madville on Nov 6, 2008 7:52 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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