What to do with the Reds Bullpen
After years of agony, the Reds bullpen was actually respectable last year. The starters underperformed and, as expected, the offense regressed, but the bullpen held their own and was one of the best in the league. The days of 8th inning BOHICAs became distant memories, replaced by much flag-waving and mirth.

Of course, Coco was not the only reason the bullpen solidified last year, but there is no doubting his contribution. Many will complain about the price tag, and legitimately so, but Wayner finally did it. His tenure was basically forgettable and short, but if there is an epitath to be written for it, it would go like this: "My kingdom for a bullpen!" After millions of dollars and an infamous trade (and numerous onerous contract blunders) he finally did it. And then he was fired.
So what I want to do here is take a look at what went right for the bullpen last year and what needs to be done to ensure a repeat performance. Out of the 6 main arms in the pen last year, 3 of them are free agents.
Francisco Cordero - 70.3 INN, 3.33 ERA, 1.40 WHIP
David Weathers - 69.3 INN, 3.25 ERA, 1.53 WHIP
Jeremy Affeldt - 78.3 INN, 3.33 ERA, 1.31 WHIP
Mike Lincoln - 70.3 INN, 4.48 ERA, 1.28 WHIP
Billy Bray - 47.0 INN, 2.87 ERA, 1.57 WHIP
Jared Burton - 58.7 INN, 3.22 ERA, 1.38 WHIP
As you can see, Dusty really hung his hat on Affeldt, Weathers, and Lincoln. They really made up the spine of the bullpen last year and it's going to be tough to replace all that productivity. The strength of the pen was really in its depth, as these 6 guys, each one of them, could be relied upon to get the big out when needed. These 6 combined to throw almost 400 innings, and at a combined ERA of 3.45. That's no joke right there.
As we learned last week, Weathers isn't coming back. He should be the easiest of the group to replace, as his ERA is deceptively low. His WHIP was really high considering such a low ERA, so one can reasonably assume his success was due in large part to Lady Luck. But still, he ate up a ton of innings and didn't let many runners cross the plate. We need another arm who can do that.
Lincoln was really a refreshing surprise last year, as he came out of nowhere and really abused opposing hitters with his bona-fide curveball. He's kind of the opposite of Weathers, as his ERA is pretty high considering his WHIP. I'll talk a little more about him later.
Affeldt will be the most difficult to replace of the 3. He was the closest thing the Reds had to a relief ace, as he was equally effective against lefties and righties. I was going to write a whole big deal about how the Reds should make every attempt to resign him, but the Giants stepped in and signed him just as I was writing this. So awesome.
So what can the Reds do to replace these guys? Unlike in previous years, there are internal options in the minors waiting to step up. Josh Roenicke, Carlos Fisher, Danny Ray Herrera, and Nick Masset all show signs of being decent to good. Roenicke could be a future closer, Fisher had a hell of a year last year, Herrera could be a legitimate LOOGY, and Masset is famous for being traded for a legend. There is also the prospect of one or more of the losers in the 5th starter derby ending up in the pen, so we could see Owings, Bailey, Thompson, Ramirez, or Maloney as a long reliever or something like that. But doing nothing and relying on these guys to repeat the performances of the departed would be folly. It could happen, but I wouldn't bank on it. I'll assume that out of this collective the Reds could fill one of the three vacancies, as this doesn't seem all that crazy.
So the Reds should be sorting among the free agents to find a good LOOGY and a strong innings-eating righty (trading for such things is retarded so FA is really the only non-retarded route). So who's out there?
via mlb.mlb.com
1) Mike Lincoln. He really is the sensible choice, and as The Great Emancipator once said "one shouldn't swap horses in the middle of the stream". We rode him pretty hard last year and he and his bionic arm held up all right, so why not try it again? He made a cool 550k last year and certainly earned a raise.
2) Luis Ayala. He has a career WHIP of 1.25 and doesn't give up many home runs. He may cost a bit more than Lincoln though, as I can see him seeking a 3 year deal. He made 1.7 mil last year between Washington and the Mets and could be looking at something like 3-4 mil a year. With all the cash tied up at the back end of the pen though, it may be tough to throw more money at another guy who won't pitch more than 70 innings.
3) Bob Howry. Slyde mentioned his name earlier in the Monday Linkage thread and he makes some sense. He's been about as awesome as a middle reliever can be over the past 5 seasons, accept for last year when he started giving up more hits and more home runs. He's a good bounce back candidate though, as his K/BB ratio was pretty much in line with his career marks. He is a Type A free agent, but it doesn't look like the Cubs want to risk offering him arbitration. They might, in which case I would pass on him. But if they don't then go for it. Perhaps the Reds could buy low on him and make him the next David Weathers (when he was good)? He'll be 35 next year.
4) Juan Cruz. He would be the safe, uncreative, big money signing. The past two years he has struck out about 14 batters per 9 innings, which is like good and stuff. He may be in line for a 4 year deal. He's been talked about as a closer candidate for some teams as well, so the price could really get lofty. Oh, and he's a Type A and the D-Backs are definitely going to offer arbitration, so he would cost a 2nd round pick next June. I only really included him on this list because he is a good example of what not to do with free agency and bullpens.
via www.latimes.com
5) Joe Beimel. You wanna LOOGY? This guy's a LOOGY. Lefties OPS .722 against him and slug under .400. He's given up 1 (one) home run (Carlos Beltran) the past two seasons, spanning 116.3 innings. He'll be 32 next year and I can see him getting the same kind of deal that Affeldt just got from the Giants (reportedly a 2-year, 8 mil deal).
6) Will Ohman. Another LOOGY, he's only given up 6 dingers the past 2 seasons. He's more LOOGY than Beimel, as lefties only OPS .603 against him. That's worse than Paul Bako. He and Beimel are really the best looking LOOGYs out there, and we could really use a true one. Bray filled the role admirably last year, but he is better served getting everyone out, not just the lefties.
7) R.J. Swindle. I don't know who he is either. But check this out, and hopefully it will convince you like it did me.
8) Derrick Turbow. Yeah I know he sucked for over a year in Milwaukee and got his walking papers last May, but listen. The dude had a bad year. I mean, an awful year. Like, worse than Mike Stanton and Todd "BT" Coffey put together. But he could be had on a minor league deal and a spring training invite. For his career, he strikes out more than 9 every 9 innings and doesn't give up homers very easily. Except for last season. Yeesh. But honestly, his past performance should not be completely overshadowed by last year. He could be a steal.
Of course, there could be a trade or two that goes down this winter and perhaps a good bullpen arm could be had as part of a deal, but that kind of speculation is really a non-starter. So there you have it. Should the Reds go with (4) more years of Lincoln? Should we really embrace the youth movement and rely on the youngsters? Do your best Wayner impression, put on a colorfully patterened crew neck and let's build a bullpen!
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trade w/ A's
lhp reliever – jerry blevins
rhp reliever- santiago cassilla or andrew brown
for
SS chris valaika
by Asfan4ever723 on
Nov 17, 2008 5:53 PM EST
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I'm not opposed to trading Valaika
but I don’t think I’d do it for bullpen help. I don’t think he’ll be a star, but I’d like any deal including him to bring more than a reliever. I realize that means trading more players too, but that’s just my twisted logic.
I like the look of Blevins though, especially since he’s a lefty.
Why have I been blogging for so long? It's certainly not because of the paycheck. Because I could be making a lot more money as a doctor or a professional athlete.
by Slyde on
Nov 17, 2008 6:00 PM EST
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tigrmetrics
Why have I been blogging for so long? It's certainly not because of the paycheck. Because I could be making a lot more money as a doctor or a professional athlete.
by Slyde on
Nov 18, 2008 9:22 AM EST
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Joe Biemel looks like a homeless guy.
After the Ben Weber experience, I’ll take a pass.
Ayala, Howry, etc. look interesting RJ Swindle has an awesome name, so I’m rooting for him.
But by the way, how was Weathers’ ERA deceptively low while Bray is a solid reliever? Both have 1.5+ WHIP, yeah?
...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield
by Cy Schourek on
Nov 17, 2008 6:09 PM EST
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Because Bray has better K and BB rates.
His BABIP was .350, but his line drive rate was high, too, so…
The difference in K rate is solid though
Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.
by andromache on
Nov 17, 2008 6:19 PM EST
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you read the wrong line
His BABIP was .369 last season. I don’t think eBABIP applies to pitchers as much, but I’d guess that .369 is closer to what you’d expect for someone giving up line drives like Bray was.
His FIP was 3.29 compared to Weathers at 4.09 (FIP is fielding independent pitching, for those not in the know). His xFIP was 3.77 compared to Weathers at 4.56 (xFIP is like FIP but adjusts for home run rate and batted ball data – it’s theoretically a better predictor of future ERA).
Basically, as andromache said, the difference in K-rate is what makes Bray a better pitcher than Weathers.
Somewhat unrelated, but I just noticed looking at the stats that, especially with relievers, WHIP ties very closely to a pitcher’s walk-rate in combination with his line drive rate. This is probably true within a single team since they have the same defense behind them. Anybody ever seen a study on something like that?
Why have I been blogging for so long? It's certainly not because of the paycheck. Because I could be making a lot more money as a doctor or a professional athlete.
by Slyde on
Nov 17, 2008 7:11 PM EST
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wow Bray had a WHIP of 1.57
did not realize that.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack
by justin007000 on
Nov 17, 2008 6:18 PM EST
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I agree on Turnbow
The guy has talent… But he still somehow sucks…
People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.
by crolfer on
Nov 17, 2008 7:06 PM EST
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Let me fix that for you...
I agree on Turnbow Coffey….
Why have I been blogging for so long? It's certainly not because of the paycheck. Because I could be making a lot more money as a doctor or a professional athlete.
by Slyde on
Nov 17, 2008 7:11 PM EST
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Because they both pitched for the Brewers?
by Brendanukkah on
Nov 17, 2008 7:38 PM EST
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because Coffey has talent but somehow still sucks
Why have I been blogging for so long? It's certainly not because of the paycheck. Because I could be making a lot more money as a doctor or a professional athlete.
by Slyde on
Nov 17, 2008 8:03 PM EST
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Maybe ask battlekow about Turnbow.
I bet he feels about the same way we feel regarding Todd BT Coffey.
Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.
by Paul Householder on
Nov 17, 2008 10:08 PM EST
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Trade Rumors says that Ohman's looking for 2 or 3 years at about 4million per.
…I think I’d do that. Maybe the Cordero signing has driven me out of my right mind, though.
Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.
by andromache on
Nov 17, 2008 7:45 PM EST
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No. that would be ludicrous.
No. I don’t know what to think anymore. I think I need a break from the hot-stove.
Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.
by andromache on
Nov 17, 2008 7:47 PM EST
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I don't think he's as valuable as Affeldt
but then, I thought Affeldt was worth more than he ended up signing for. So, I don’t know what I’d be happy with for Ohman, but I wouldn’t pay more than $4 million, fer sure.
Why have I been blogging for so long? It's certainly not because of the paycheck. Because I could be making a lot more money as a doctor or a professional athlete.
by Slyde on
Nov 17, 2008 8:05 PM EST
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If I were Cincinnati I would have resigned Affeldt for $4M
it is only a million dollar pay raise over what he got in 2008. He would have helped stabilize the bullpen. Plus it is only a 2 year contract.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack
by justin007000 on
Nov 17, 2008 8:55 PM EST
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agree wholeheartedly
i was thinking
Cordero
Burton
Affeldt
Bray
Roenicke
Homer
by obc2 on
Nov 17, 2008 10:25 PM EST
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Yup, that's what he's looking for
But if we want him, we should move fast. The Braves have submitted an offer.
Honestly though, it’s tough to see us matching that. I mean, for that type of deal we could have just held on to Affeldt.
by Brendanukkah on
Nov 18, 2008 12:24 PM EST
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too bad to see affeldt go
seems like it would be worth $8m for 2 years of that.
but i do think bray is ready for that role next year, herrera can be the lefty specialist (bray wasn’t particularly good in that role anyway, it seemed. it seems like he didn’t want to throw stikes to the left-handed hitters.).
i’m upset about weathers not coming back. the guy isn’t a closer, he’s not maybe even the most dependable 8th inning guy, but he rarely embarrassed the team. and maybe i have too many memories of todd coffey, but weathers seemed like a useful piece to me. oh well, at least he’s a “b” and so we’ll get a pick if he doesn’t retire.
i still am wishful-thinking that some team would take that cordero contract off our hands. it’s too much money for too long for a closer. i’d rather take my chances with burton (or roenicke in 2010) than have that much money tied up in a closer on a team with such a shaky offense and lack of defenisive ablility.
not sure if an ohman/beimel type really helps here. i’d rather go with hererra in that role, all things being equal. from what i remember of him last year, he seemed pretty good against lefties.
of course, the overriding opinion i’ve always had of relief pitching is that, year-to-year, it’s a total crapshoot. guys come out of nowhere and have incredible years, guys with a dependable track record watch their ERAs and BAAs skyrocket, etc.
by rpa on
Nov 17, 2008 10:32 PM EST
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Reds have a huge problem with this.......developing a RP from a nobody
How many guys have sucked it up and then you see them have a solid year for another team?
by Dave from Louisville on
Nov 17, 2008 10:36 PM EST
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Ditching SoSo Cordero
He has a no trade clause in his contract through 2009. So we’ll be keeping him.
by Brendanukkah on
Nov 18, 2008 9:55 AM EST
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Great plan - DO NOTHING
I would have prefered to have Affedt back, but with Cordero our bullpen already costs too much.
Cordero
Burton
Bray
Masset
Thompson/Bailey/Owings
Roenicke
I wouldn’t mind signing Lincoln. He was way better until he fell off a cliff when his arm got tired. A lefty would be great, but a good one is expensive. What’s the point with signing a medicore/poor lefty? Mike Stanton anyone…..exactly my point.
Krivsky’s biggest problem was his fear of losing the game with the bullpen, then he would spend way to much money on arms.
by Dave from Louisville on
Nov 17, 2008 10:32 PM EST
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i dont trust Masset at all
and relying upon Thompson/Bailey/Owings/Roenicke is a risky business. if we want our bullpen to be competitive, we should really get some talent.
Lincoln’s splits were reversed last year, as he was actually incredibly effective against lefties, with a line of .225/.269/.405 against. he was good against righties too. i think he could be had at a decent price, like 2 years and 4-5 mil. and if you want to look at the bullpen as having a payroll, remember that 900k is off the books for Coffey, 3.5 mil for Stanton, 3.3 for Weathers, 3 mil for Affeldt, and 600k for Mercker. Cordero gets a raise of about 4 mil this year, so conceivably we have about 6-7 mil to spend on a few relievers. how about 2.5 for Lincoln and 3.5 for Ohman? i would be pleased with that.
by Charlie Scrabbles on
Nov 18, 2008 12:05 AM EST
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I looked at Lincoln's game log
Lincoln really just had a few games that completely ruined his line. I am not sure if it is so much that he had a tired arm, or just there were days he was pitching when he was off his game. In August he posted a 10.97 ERA. His WHIP was 1.97, he allowed runs in 6 of the 13 games he appeared in, including August, 2 when he gave up 3 runs 3 hits and a walk in a 1/3 of an inning, on August, 19 he gave up 4 runs, on 3 hits in 0 innings, on August, 23 he gave up 3 runs and 3 hits in 1/3 of an inning, and on August, 30 he gave up 1 run and 3 hits in an inning. I think it may have been a case of Lincoln being more exposed due to Burton’s absence. Lets face it Lincoln is at best an average relief pitcher (which all teams need).
He had a similar thing in May. His ERA for May was 8.53, in 12 appearances. But he only gave up runs in 4 of those appearances, but every game he allowed runs he allowed multiple runs, including back to back appearance in which he gave up 4 earned runs.
Lets move on into September, his September ERA was 3.52, but his WHIP was 1.96. He pitched 7 2/3 innings in September and logged 5 strikeouts (which shows that his stuff was probably still there) but 6 walks (one of the walks was intentional). He only allowed runs in one out of the ten games he pitched in September, on the 6th he allowed 3 runs on four hits and 1 walk over an inning of work against the Cubs. He allowed base runners in 5 of his 10 appearances. He allowed a hit against Pit over a 1/3 of an inning on the 2nd, the Cubs game mentioned above, on the 9th he allowed 1 hit over 1 1/3 innings against Milwaukee, on the 14th he allowed a hit and 2 walks over an inning against Arizona, on the 19th he allowed 2 walks against Milwaukee in a single inning of work, on the 24th he allowed 2 hits over 2/3 of an inning of work, and on the 26th he allowed a walk against the Cardinals in 1/3 of an inning of work.
What does this all mean (besides it is finals week and I am avoiding studying)? I don’t know. I will not begin to pretend I am Slyde and can do all these cool statistic things. What I do think we see here is that when Lincoln doesn’t have it, he really doesn’t have it. Much of that could have been because of his curve ball. If I remember correctly he threw in the low 90s with a lethal curve ball when he was on. Maybe a little fatigue set in and he lost command of his breaking ball. Maybe he is just an inconsistent pitcher who has very hot hot streaks and very frigid cold streaks, which make him an average pitcher.
If he did lose his stuff do to a tired arm, could that be because his arm is just brittle? I actually did not expect him to make it through last season without some sort of arm injury, I figured by July at the latest he would be on the D.L. with arm trouble. He may not be strong enough to make it through a whole season. It is also possible that he just isn’t use to pitching for 6 months. He did set a career high in games at 64 last season (his previous high was 55 in 2002) and he threw the second highest amount of innings last year at 70 and 1/3 (his career high was 72 and 1/3 also in 2002).
On a related note Rotoworld kinda pisses me off. The last blurb they wrote about Lincoln was on May, 23
“We’re not sure what’s more incredible: that Lincoln made the Reds after more than 2 1/2 years off by amassing a 5.25 ERA this spring or that he’s still around now despite lugging around a 6.86 ERA. The Reds should be able to do better.”
Not one mention of his scoreless month of July. Rotoworld will crow when they are right about somebody, but they will forget when they are wrong. It bothers me.
"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack
by justin007000 on
Nov 18, 2008 3:25 AM EST
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My first choice was to re-sign Affeldt.
I’m overprotective of draft choices, but I think I’d give up a second rounder for Juan Cruz, but not for Howry.
As for the rest of the free agents, maybe a healthy Chad Cordero on an incentive-laden deal that would allow him to stick it to Leatherbritches. Trever Miller is 35 but still has something in the tank. I like WIll Ohman. Our old friend Dennys Reyes would make a nice addition.
I believe Walt is fond of Russ Springer, but I don’t think the spaniel wants to pitch anywhere but St. Louis.
Unless he sucks snot in spring training, put Roenicke out there and Homer, too.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on
Nov 17, 2008 11:32 PM EST
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Uhhmmmmm Turtle you are usually a font of base-a-ball wisdom
But Dennis Reyes? I’d rather see Homer or Josh R. than Reyes. I believe that Dennis is on the Prince fielder diet.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
Sir Winston Churchill
by Madville on
Nov 18, 2008 12:39 AM EST
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I think Reyes is a good choice
He kills lefties. He only made $1M last year. And he’s not any heavier looking than Weathers:

Why have I been blogging for so long? It's certainly not because of the paycheck. Because I could be making a lot more money as a doctor or a professional athlete.
by Slyde on
Nov 18, 2008 9:04 AM EST
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He's no Rich Garces

"Yes, and it's so important in this sport that the athletes be able to train in the same location." -Cynthia Potter, NBC Synchronized Diving Analyst
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on
Nov 18, 2008 9:12 AM EST
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Los Whoppers
What a picture of domestic tranquility... Hemlock on the hearth and my wife feeding the piranha.
by Man Mountain on
Nov 18, 2008 10:00 AM EST
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Looks like Denny has lost some poudage.
Well if BOTH you and TT like him, then lets get him.
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
Sir Winston Churchill
by Madville on
Nov 18, 2008 10:07 AM EST
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put me on the Dennys Reyes bandwagon
before he eats it thinking its a chuckwagon.
...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield
by Cy Schourek on
Nov 18, 2008 12:57 PM EST
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Yeah, I'd prefer Homer or Roenicke, as well.
But any pitcher with an urgency to get to the post-game buffet is likely to either 1) efficiently blow through the opposition and get three outs, or, 2) give up a walk-off homer.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on
Nov 18, 2008 11:57 AM EST
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In that case
it might actually be a “waddle-off homer.”
by Brendanukkah on
Nov 18, 2008 12:03 PM EST
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Scratch Trever Miller.
On Wednesday, he signed with the Cardinals.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on
Nov 20, 2008 10:35 AM EST
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Hows about Brian Shouse?
A pretty solid loogy the past couple of years, getting a lot of groundballs with that funky delivery.
He’s 40 and may not be looking to move, but a two-year deal could do it.
by ken on
Nov 18, 2008 1:11 PM EST
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a 40-year-old lefty
and you wanna give him a 2 year deal? i used to respect you, ken.
by Charlie Scrabbles on
Nov 18, 2008 1:42 PM EST
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I want a sidearmer
And I’m not willing to part with Eri Yoshida’s posting fee.
by ken on
Nov 18, 2008 2:58 PM EST
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Once you go looking for a babysitter
You’ll wish you’d just forked over the fee for a 16 year old Japanese girl. Plus she could teach your daughter a knuckler.
(Anyone else shocked that Slyde hasn’t already weighed in with a George Costanza joke?)
by Brendanukkah on
Nov 18, 2008 3:06 PM EST
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I guess if anyone's going to teach my daughter a knuckler
I’d rather it be a 16 year old Japanese girl than some punk 20 year old college guy. But isn’t this the reason we introduced sex ed into the public schools?
Youth wins games; veteran presence wins championships!
by ben nevis on
Nov 18, 2008 3:11 PM EST
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I’d rather it be a 16 year old Japanese girl
Coutlangus joke!
by Charlie Scrabbles on
Nov 18, 2008 3:16 PM EST
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Man, I already had to discuss with my boyfriend
that lusting over 16 year old girls is kinda icky. Even if they are submarine knuckleballers.
Then again,he is pretty old, so it may be different for red reporters.
Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.
by andromache on
Nov 18, 2008 3:19 PM EST
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Exhibit A: Madville --> crolfer

Ain’t nothin’ wrong with that.
by Brendanukkah on
Nov 18, 2008 3:22 PM EST
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Seventeen year olds nowadays are crazy. They're up for anything.
"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."
by jch24 on
Nov 18, 2008 3:44 PM EST
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Good point Brendan - you never know when you're gonna score

also there’s getting some head…

and as you say stretching the hamstring

Then some girl love

How can you not love soccer?
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
Sir Winston Churchill
by Madville on
Nov 18, 2008 11:27 PM EST
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also getting a little head
![]()
Stretching the hammy
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
Sir Winston Churchill
by Madville on
Nov 19, 2008 12:30 AM EST
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Oh and girl love
![]()
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
Sir Winston Churchill
by Madville on
Nov 19, 2008 12:33 AM EST
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