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What your NL MVP says about you

At 2 PM today the BBWAA will announce the NL MVP. In years past I've compared the candidates and invited debate on the matter. Increasingly I've come to realize that these exercises inevitably deteriorate into people talking past each other. Everyone has their idea of what the MVP is. So let's look at how this year's candidates match up to the justifications.

For the record here are the voting guidelines:

1. Actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense.
2. Number of games played.
3. General character, disposition, loyalty and effort.
4. Former winners are eligible.
5. Members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.

UPDATE: It's Pujols.

Star-divide

If Albert Pujols is your MVP:

Your MVP doesn't have to come from a playoff team. You see the MVP as the "Most Outstanding Player" award and Pujols was easily the best player in the league. You may look at both offense and defense and use advanced stats to determine value, or you may simply base your determination on traditional triple crown stats. Pujols dominated by any measure.

Bernie Miklasz of the St Louis Post Dispatch carries the flag: Being a man of limited intellect, I've tried to simplify the MVP process. It comes down to this for me: the best player with the best overall statistics has the most value to his team. What I refuse to do in MVP voting is penalize a great player because the team around him is deficient.

or:

You adjust for "value" based on team standings, but don't draw the cutoff point at the Playoffs. Pujols' Cardinals led the Wild Card into August and they finished with a respectable 86 wins.

As Ken Rosenthal writes: But while I prefer my MVP to at least experience pennant-race pressure if he does not play for a postseason qualifier, the Cardinals contended practically all season, greatly exceeding every expert's (ahem) expectations. Remove Pujols from the equation, and the team would not have been nearly as competitive.

If Ryan Howard is your MVP:

You like your MVP to be from a playoff team. Furthermore you want him to guide his team into the playoffs by hitting well down the stretch. You believe the games in September are more important than the games in April. On Sept 15 Randy Miller from phillyburbs.com wrote: Howard is doing his part and more with a .356 average, 10 homers and 25 RBIs over his last 19 games. In September, he's batting .354 with seven homers in 13 games, which is typical. Like Hank Aaron you might be impressed by Howard's superior HR and RBI totals (and not be bothered by his low batting average). You're not one of these posters from The Good Phight: Ryan Howard is not a legitimate MVP candidate, and it's not even close.

If Brad Lidge is your MVP:

You don't buy into the recent theory that closers are inherently fungible. You're impressed with perfection--41-41 in save chances (plus the playoffs, though that shouldn't count). You probably favor Francisco Rodriguez in the AL. Like Tracy Ringolsby of the Rocky Mountain News you like talking about mental toughness and where a team would be without a player. Like Brian Joseph of USA Today's Baseball Digest Daily you may be trying to be contrarian (actually that's true of many of the non-Albert picks): Where Lidge ranks among the candidates for this year's NL MVP is somewhere near the bottom of the barrel -- probably even below teammates Ryan Howard and Chase Utley -- but make no mistake about it, Brad Lidge is the right choice for this year's MVP.

If Manny Ramirez is your MVP:

You love a good storyline. You want your MVP to drag his team into the playoffs. Manny has the stretch kick of Howard with the added excitement of the big acquisition. You may, like Gerry Fraley of The Sporting News, believe Manny made his teammates better: Juan Pierre hit a home run. For that reason alone, Dodgers left fielder Manny Ramirez merits strong consideration in the National League MVP race. You don't view value as a counting stat (or pay little attention to voter guideline #2). ESPN's Scoop Jackson: True, it's only been 48 games of impact, but he's done more for one team in 48 games than any of the others have done (with possible the exception of Pujols) over the season. Tim Montemayor of TSN and Jon Heyman of SI agree, and agree to ignore the part of the season where Manny--so the story goes--played beneath his abilities to force a trade. It was in the other league after all. You probably think Manny's biggest competition is CC Sabathia.

If CC Sabathia is your MVP:

You like the good story. You like the stretch kick. You have no problems going with a pitcher who didn't throw many innings. You like it when your candidate's good play correlates with the team's winning streak. Basically you're Mike Greenberg (perhaps to save face the site mike-greenberg.com which hosted his argument no longer exists. Here's the BTTF discussion of it).

You certainly aren't LaVelle Neal of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune or George King of the New York Post, who left Pedro Martinez completely off their 10-deep ballots in 1999 because he was a pitcher who only appeared in 31 games.

If Carlos Delgado is your MVP:

You've been in a coma since mid-September. Ok, no one thinks Delgado is the MVP anymore. But before the Phillies pulled away from the Mets many were advocating his candidacy. If you were one of them you probably like Ryan Howard or Manny Ramirez now. You liked the redemption story. You discounted the beginning of the year when Delgado hit horribly. You liked that he OPSed 1.049 in September (or slightly worse than Pujols during that period).

If Brandon Phillips is your MVP:

You're a hopeless homer. Also, why no love for Joey Votto?

0 recs | Comment 47 comments

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Pujols

Far and away the absolute best player in the game right now. The MVP is the Most Valuable Player. Nowhere in the name ‘Most Valuable Player’ does it say anything about playoffs, contention or clutch.

by dougdirt on Nov 17, 2008 3:49 AM EST reply reply actions actions   1 recs

but...

I think the argument could be raised that the Cardinals didn’t need him on the team to miss going to the playoffs.

People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.

by crolfer on Nov 17, 2008 4:17 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Does that mean

the Rangers didn’t need A-Rod to be in last place?

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Nov 17, 2008 5:17 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

exactly

People Don't Kill People. Burning Couches Kill People.

by crolfer on Nov 17, 2008 6:02 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That argument

to me says that 1999 was no more valuable to Reds fans than 2003.

by Red Menace on Nov 17, 2008 8:24 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

so kruk should have won a lot of MVP's in your book?

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Nov 17, 2008 1:00 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No.

Todd Coffey.

Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.

by Paul Householder on Nov 17, 2008 6:17 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

pujols often gets jobbed out of the mvp award....

he may be the most underappreciated superstar in sports

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Nov 17, 2008 8:44 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't care what it says about me

Pujols is the only choice this year.

And Cavemen was a terribly executed concept.

Why have I been blogging for so long? It's certainly not because of the paycheck. Because I could be making a lot more money as a doctor or a professional athlete.

by Slyde on Nov 17, 2008 8:48 AM EST reply reply actions actions   1 recs

rec'd

i thought that show had Emmy potential. sigh.

and sorry Menace, but MVP discussions are lame. we all know the people that vote for these things are idiots. Pujols was worth almost 5 Ryans Howard this year. its that far away from being close. Pujols wins so far and away that it wraps around the earth and comes back again, making it appear close but in reality he is 25,000 miles better. some say he is more than a man, but less than a God.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 17, 2008 9:47 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

25,000 sky miles

because if he is, somebody gets a free domestic coach trip on delta, northwest, or continental.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Nov 17, 2008 1:01 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Berkman- top Win shares

via Hardball Times. Just edged Pujolos on the Fielding and Batting stat. I am not sure how because Albert had higher Runs Created with less PA- maybe park adjustment?.
Also Hanley Ramirez had a monster year at SS.
And Chase Utley- arguable gold glove 2nd base.
Berkman and Ramirez were definitely very close to Pujolos in value this year- but Howard – thats just crazy.

by davidmac84 on Nov 17, 2008 2:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah

There are plenty of decent down-ballot candidates I left out. I only put up people I who had seen weird justifications for. Anyone who would vote for Berkman would vote for Pujols instead, if you catch my drift.

by Red Menace on Nov 17, 2008 3:59 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pujols takes it home

ESPN.com

"Yes, and it's so important in this sport that the athletes be able to train in the same location." -Cynthia Potter, NBC Synchronized Diving Analyst

by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Nov 17, 2008 2:20 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For those that look beyond mere performance,

Stephen A. examined the sociological merits of Howard’s candidacy a couple of years back. Quite frankly, you’d be an idiot not to!

by ken on Nov 17, 2008 2:37 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Albert is indeed the MVP

and to think I has chosen Red Menace.

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Sir Winston Churchill

by Madville on Nov 18, 2008 12:41 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dustin Pedroia wins the AL MVP

Proving once and for all that he’s no Jeter.

Why have I been blogging for so long? It's certainly not because of the paycheck. Because I could be making a lot more money as a doctor or a professional athlete.

by Slyde on Nov 18, 2008 2:15 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Seriously? FTH?

The guy’s good, but how did he win the MVP?

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Nov 18, 2008 2:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well

He was 3rd in the AL in Total Value (Justin’s numbers) behind Grady Sizemore and Alex Rodriguez. Best player on a contender, I’d say.

Why have I been blogging for so long? It's certainly not because of the paycheck. Because I could be making a lot more money as a doctor or a professional athlete.

by Slyde on Nov 18, 2008 2:41 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

im alright with Pedroia

but Jason Bartlett got votes. my brain just died.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 18, 2008 2:43 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

more confusing to me is Morneau finishing 2nd instead of Mauer

Ultimately it doesn’t matter, but why does Mauer continue to be in Morneau’s shadow? Clearly Mauer is the better player at a tougher position. Morneau was 39th in the AL in total value. Mauer was 6th. The difference is mainly because Morneau is lousy defensively at the “easiest” position on the field. Mauer is average defensively at the toughest position.

Why have I been blogging for so long? It's certainly not because of the paycheck. Because I could be making a lot more money as a doctor or a professional athlete.

by Slyde on Nov 18, 2008 2:49 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

its the RBIs dude

i dont get it either, but eventually that kind of Mr. Magoo baseball analysis will die off. and then Jay Bruce will win 6 straight Albert Pujols Awards.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 18, 2008 2:55 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mauer

It’s surprising how little press he gets. A hometown guy, went #1 overall, and led a young pitching staff post-Santana (and mostly w/o Liriano) to the bring of contention. He’d get my vote, but w/o double digit HRs or SBs it’s pretty much impossible (or the RBIzzz, as Charlie said).

by ken on Nov 18, 2008 2:57 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

doesn't it seem like he got more press before he reached the majors?

There was a stretch where Peter Gammons seemed to be living in his garage

What a picture of domestic tranquility... Hemlock on the hearth and my wife feeding the piranha.

by Man Mountain on Nov 19, 2008 12:41 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, around the draft there was a lot of talk about him

One because he was a catcher. Also, there was speculation that the Twins took him over Mark Prior because he was cheaper, not because of the hometown factor.

by ken on Nov 19, 2008 1:53 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

After looking at his stats

I take it back. A pretty good year, especially for an ALS.

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Nov 18, 2008 2:47 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i hate albert pujols

more than winter itself. more than dust on a shelf. more than dead puppies on the road. more than sarah palin’s wardrobe. more than pie in the sky. more than mold growing on rye. more than pencils with no lead. more than attacks by the undead. more than snowflakes on the nose. more than frostbitten toes. more than stupid rhyme. more than wasting some time.

what exactly is the most valuable player valuable to? baseball itself? how is pujols valuable to baseball? does he bring more revenue to it? does he elicit more cheers? and if it is valuable to a team, then playing for a winning team WOULD matter. how can you be a valuable player to your team if your team isn’t achieving the sole objective for existence: winning? in voting for pujols, are the voters saying the deadbirds would have lost every game without him?

now, chase utley. there’s a guy whose team could not have done what it did without him.

quite honestly, i think he didn’t win because the baseball writers use such criteria as “he’d be the third philly to win in a row.” that’s about how lame the process is.

by Daedalus on Nov 18, 2008 4:17 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm no Albert fan

But he definitely deserved it. He did play for a winning team – St. Louis won 86 games and was in the wildcard hunt, even though most thought they wouldn’t contend. In terms of producing with the bat and glove for a contending team, it’s Albert first, daylight second.

by ken on Nov 18, 2008 4:59 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hmm...

Well, don’t just sit there typing!

Time to break out the voodoo doll, D!

Hey Dusty...Are you sure you're OK? You might need an MRI.

by Paul Householder on Nov 19, 2008 3:11 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

mold growing on rye

isn’t there one that produces a hallucinogen?

by ol Pete on Nov 19, 2008 12:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ergot

is a fungus that can grow on grasses and wheat plants. It contains ergoline with is a lysurgic acid and can be a hallucinogen.

It is thought by some scholars that it was ergot infected wheat (with its beautiful blue spores) that warlike tribes of Northern Europe such as the Vikings ingested as a ceremonial rite before battle and vision quests. These vision quests included killing a bear without aid of weapon and skinning him in order to make a “ber skirt” or “bear shirt.” A man who had past this particular test was called a “berserker.”

What a picture of domestic tranquility... Hemlock on the hearth and my wife feeding the piranha.

by Man Mountain on Nov 19, 2008 12:53 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks, MM!

Why have I been blogging for so long? It's certainly not because of the paycheck. Because I could be making a lot more money as a doctor or a professional athlete.

by Slyde on Nov 19, 2008 1:02 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

my love for you is like a truck

What a picture of domestic tranquility... Hemlock on the hearth and my wife feeding the piranha.

by Man Mountain on Nov 19, 2008 2:52 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You sound awfully well informed.

by ol Pete on Nov 19, 2008 3:25 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Congratulations to Pujols and Pedroia!!!

Both had great years. Now, if I see Pujols coming into spring training with all kinds of pin marks all over him I’ll know what happened! LOL….

The problem with these awards is its all opinions of sportswriters. In the end that is all the award season is… opinions. Remember, these awards are given by the ppl who last spring were handing the World Championship to the Cubs…. (evil grin) While I am glad Albert won, what does it mean? Its just the opinion of sportswriters.

So, congratulations again to the winners of all the awards given in the off season. But, in the end, the true winners, who won the only award that counts, were the Philadelphia Philles.

People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring.-Rogers Hornsby

by thegashousegang on Nov 19, 2008 9:21 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah that's what Walt will be saying come next September

if’n we don’t get at least a decent SS and RH power bat.

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Sir Winston Churchill

by Madville on Nov 19, 2008 4:16 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And

to whom might we be replying Mads? Just a bit of schizophrenia?

"There's a party in my tummy, so yummy, so yummy!" ----Yo Gabba Gabba

by Pops Daniels on Nov 20, 2008 10:34 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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