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EdE to Atkins: A lateral move, at best

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David Kohl/AP

The talk yesterday of trading for Garrett Atkins left me with just one question: why?  I'm not questioning why because I think Atkins is a bad player.  That's not the case at all.  He's a good - not great - Major League player.  And while his numbers are inflated by playing in Colorado, it's not as if he would likely come to Cincinnati and turn into a terrible hitter. 

No the reason why I ask why is because he's not really an improvement over Encarnacion at third base.  On paper, they are essentially the same player:

  • 20-25 home runs a year
  • an OPS+ of 100-110 every year
  • bad defense
  • better numbers at home than on the road

On that last point, the resemblance between their career road numbers really is quite striking:

Atkins: .260/.328/.424
EdE: .259/.326/.434

You really can't get much closer than that, can you?

The only real difference between the two player's history is that Atkins has 2006 to hang his hat on, a season where he posted a .329/.409/.556 batting line with an OPS+ of 136.  It was a year where Atkins finished 15th in the MVP ballotting.  Encarnacion doesn't have a season anywhere near that year.  But then, besides 2006, neither does Atkins.

Oh, and there is one more difference.  Atkins didn't finally settle into the big leagues until 2005 when he was 25 years old.  Edwin just finished his third full season in the big leagues - a year when he was just 25 years old.  Atkins is moving into that phase into his career where we pretty much know what type of player he is.  EdE is still developing a bit - though by no means do I think he'll become an All Star.  Given the age of the two players, it's more likely that Edwin will be the one to continue to improve over the next couple of seasons.

On top of that, Atkins is in his second year of arbitration after making $4.4 million last season.  With EdE just entering his first arb year this season, I think we can expect that he'll be much cheaper in 2009.  Plus there is the extra advantage of another year of control over him.

Like I said, this is not a case of me thinking that Atkins is a bad player - far from it.  And if he were a left fielder or if he played good defense at 3B (a la Adrian Beltre), I'd be in support of the move.  But if he is any sort of an upgrade over EdE, it's minimal.  If both players stay on the roster, then one of them is going to play a new position while the other continues to play bad defense at 3B.  How is that an upgrade?  If they decide to trade EdE - a move I'm not opposed to if the deal makes sense - doesn't it make more sense to try to replace him with someone who is not an older, more expensive version of himself?

Can anybody give me a good reason why Garrett Atkins would be a real improvement over Encarnacion?

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We could probably come up with some good nicknames for Atkins

Gattikins?
Gatkins?
Garratkins?

"Yes, and it's so important in this sport that the athletes be able to train in the same location." -Cynthia Potter, NBC Synchronized Diving Analyst

by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Nov 12, 2008 9:21 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

i posit

that nickname potential for EdE is still very high.

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Nov 12, 2008 9:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And if they trade for Yorvit Torrealba too

he could be Terriable! Woo!

"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling

by Slyde on Nov 12, 2008 9:44 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Question:

Would we be more in favor of this trade if we made him legally change his name to Yorvit Jessicaalba?

Hey, all the other Cincinnati athletes are doing it!

by Brendanukkah on Nov 12, 2008 9:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

It’s a shame Corey Dos Cero Cinco didn’t catch on.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Nov 12, 2008 10:07 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I'm glad I remembered my 0-9 of Spanish

I also like the name Gattica for a scrappy white guy. Because Ethan Hawke taught us that there is no gene for the human heart.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Nov 12, 2008 10:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

0-9

Pretty close to a Patterson line there.

by Brendanukkah on Nov 12, 2008 11:49 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rat-a-tat-tatkins

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Nov 12, 2008 10:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I've been rapping for about seventeen years.

"Yes, and it's so important in this sport that the athletes be able to train in the same location." -Cynthia Potter, NBC Synchronized Diving Analyst

by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Nov 12, 2008 10:10 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

His nickname with the Rockies is "Fankles"

For “Fat Ankles”. I’m sure he probably wouldn’t mind some of your alternatives.

by Rox Girl on Nov 12, 2008 11:44 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Also,

“Batkins,” but only when he does well.

"Never Surrender Dreams" - Inscription on J. Michael Straczynski's bench

Purple Row - Covering all your Rockies needs!

by Russ on Nov 12, 2008 8:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Babykins?

Sweetiekins?

Are there any more dinner rolls? -President Ted Kennedy

by The Crushinator on Nov 12, 2008 2:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

South Beach

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Sir Winston Churchill

by Madville on Nov 12, 2008 4:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

One less thing

for announcers and talk show hosts to bitch about?

Finishing up getting rid of that group of players (Dunn, Griff.) and seemingly move in a different direction?

We’re racists and we need more scrappy white guys?

And how about Gattaca?

"Patterson, Keppinger, Bako.... Cream of the Suck" -Slyde

by snohio on Nov 12, 2008 9:24 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I tried to incorporate that, poorly, into "Gattikins"

"Yes, and it's so important in this sport that the athletes be able to train in the same location." -Cynthia Potter, NBC Synchronized Diving Analyst

by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Nov 12, 2008 9:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Atkins to 1st?

EE stays at 3rd and Votto moves to LF…that’s the only way it makes any sense to me. Atkins could be a placeholder until Yonder is ready.

The Reds would have to give up nothing for me to be comfortable with trading for Atkins.

by Snake the Jake on Nov 12, 2008 11:15 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Alright this is friggin ridiculous

Surely our braintrust is reading these identical statlines. I swear, it’s like one guy always takes the heat for the team’s overall mediocrity and gets run out of town. It’s not that the fanbase is racist, it’s that the fanbase is unconscionably moronic. Encarnacion was our second best offensive player last year (behind Votto). WTF?

Politickin' in God's Country

by chesirecat on Nov 12, 2008 11:19 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

I don't think you've got anything to worry about

From Jocketty, via Fay, it’s all just talk right now and it happens with lots of clubs.

To echo some earlier sentiment, it’s nice to see Walt keeping the masses in the loop.

by bengalred on Nov 12, 2008 11:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Jocketty:
“But we’ve talked to a lot of different clubs,” he said. “They all didn’t allow it to get out.”

Oh, SNAP! Somebody run down to the Pepsi Center and tell Carmelo Anthony to swing by Dan O’Dowd’s offices for a refresher course on the policies re. snitching.

Jocketty said the Reds did talk to the Rockies about Matt Holliday, who is Oakland A’s-bound.

“Definitely,” he said.

Did it ever get very far?

“No,” Jocketty said. “Once we told them who are untouchables were . . . that was the end of the conversation.”

Ah, Fay.

by Brendanukkah on Nov 12, 2008 12:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

is it me or is the content of his reporting getting better?

he seems to be moving more towards stats. He has written a lot about OBP and OPS. Plus he claims he talks to Walt daily. He seems like he is working hard. I feel like Hal is semi retired. He will still show up to games and write about what he hears, and spout of in his articles about why the reds suck, but he doesn’t seem to be aggressive in finding news.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Nov 12, 2008 12:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I have a feeling that Jocketty is better at playing the media game that Krivsky ever was

I got the impression that Fay in particular dreaded talking to Krivsky because he already knew what the answers were going to be. It doesn’t seem that Jocketty has that level of predictability to him, at least not yet.

"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling

by Slyde on Nov 12, 2008 12:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, it's nice to have someone in the city who knows how to deal with the media

Between Krivsky and Marvin Lewis, it’s been at least two years of useless press conferences until now.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Nov 12, 2008 12:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

you can't forget Jerry Narron

when asked about the starting rotation he said something to the effect of “Somebody is going to start on the mound for the Reds on Sunday.”

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Nov 12, 2008 12:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Good point.

“uhhhh plays the right way… ehh baseball guy… ehhhhhh mmmhmhph”

Just couldn’t keep that guy away from peanut butter.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Nov 12, 2008 12:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Narron's "aw shucks" got old real fast.

www.crosleyfieldterrace.wordpress.com

by xjjeep90 on Nov 12, 2008 9:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I kind of got a kick out of Krivsky's sarcasm and overal taciturnicity

I get the feeling that I may be the strongest Wanye supporter out here. His job was to make the team better. He went pretty far towards doing that…I have a lot more trust in him then I do in the current cast of all-stars.

Towards the end of ‘07, he seemed to be loosening up a bit and being more sarcastic-funny. I don’t really care about the “not giving the fans” information bit. As long as there are Pena-for-Arroyo trades.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Nov 12, 2008 1:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i am a wayne supporter too

i was pretty pissed when he was fired. If you look at my record here at RR, you will see I supported Wayne when others had their doubts.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Nov 12, 2008 1:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I also just realized that I wrote "wanye"

which would’ve been an awesome nickname for him if he was still around. And since he was instrumental in bringing up Johnny C, we could’ve even done “Wanye Cuest” which I, and I alone, would’ve loved.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Nov 12, 2008 3:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You wouldn't have been the only one.

I’m not ruling out Jonye Cuest as a sweet ass nickname. We’ll see how it plays come game thread season.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Nov 12, 2008 4:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i would much rather get a defensive upgrade at SS

to help cover some of the deficiencies that EdE has at 3B. is it stupid of me to posit Adam Everett? the dude hits like Bako but his glove is worth 2 wins by itself. he could be had cheaply (he’s a free agent and probably wont cost but a few mil) and although he’s certainly not a long-term answer, with the likes of Kepp and Gonzo as our only alternatives i wouldnt mind signing him. or does anyone think Janish could do what he does at a fraction of the cost? thoughts?

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 12, 2008 11:45 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I'd certainly much rather have Everett than any of the Rockies mentioned

As far as Janish goes, I think I’d give him a little more time to cook. He got called up out of necessity last year when he clearly wasn’t ready. He’s good with the glove, but Everett has been one of the best in baseball. If the Reds are serious about improving defense as a path towards quickly becoming a better team, there are a lot worse options than Everett.

by Brendanukkah on Nov 12, 2008 11:49 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Everett and Beltre

with EdE in LF? that almost sounds like an 82-win team to me.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 12, 2008 11:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Fourth place in the division, here we come!

This place is like a sexy preschool.

by Gray on Nov 12, 2008 12:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not at all confident that Everett would be who he was defensively since the broken leg in 2007

add to that a nagging shoulder injury from last year and I’m doubtful that he’s worth what he once was. The big problem with Everett is that his bat is so bad that once his defense goes, he’s got nothing. With his defense being in doubt, I’d rather just go with Janish, actually.

"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling

by Slyde on Nov 12, 2008 12:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Come on, Slyde

An aging, slick-fielding shortstop from the Twins? What could possibly go wrong?

by Brendanukkah on Nov 12, 2008 12:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

broken leg? shoulder injury?

i knew not. good thing we have you around or all us pretend-GMs would be wearing much egg on our faces.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 12, 2008 12:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

An Atkins Apologist:

Let me preface this by saying that since I live in Cincinnati, the one team I’m able to follow nearly as much as the Rockies is the Reds. I go to several games a season and know the team pretty well, and while I’m probably naturally inclined to be biased toward Rockies players, I’m not nearly as biased as you may think. I’d gladly have Jay Bruce over any of our current outfielders (well, since Monday) and I’d be thrilled to have at least three of your starters in our rotation, so I typically know where you have players that are better than what we have, but let me tell you, Encarnacion is not one of them.

Right now you’re comparing a bad year for Garrett with a relatively good one with EdE, so of course it’s going to look like a wash on offense, that’s not the case.

1. Encarnacion is a dead pull hitter incapable of using the complete field, Garrett is not. Atkins got a little away from this last season, particularly late in the year when he was adjusting with a move to first base, but at least he’s shown in the past that he’s capable of spraying the ball to all fields. I have never seen Encarnacion really attempt it.
2. Atkins is a line drive hitter (24.2% for his career) Encarnacion is not (21.3% for his career) at least not nearly as much, over the course of the season, that really adds up the extra hits. At GABP, this is going to make Atkins look like a bigger monster than he does in his Coors. You will actually see a bump in Garrett’s HR numbers here because all those line drives are sort of ill-suited for Denver. Encarnacion is already taking as much advantage of his homepark as he can.
3. Atkins’ road stats will improve by moving out of Denver and the NL West. It’s not just Coors Field, it’s having to go so often from a mile high to places like PETCO. Add in the physiological effects, the thin oxygen at altitude effects recovery times and causes players to hold onto signs of fatigue longer. How are Enc’s going to improve by him staying here?
4. Encarnacion is moving the wrong direction on the defensive spectrum and will be a poor bat first baseman soon. Atkins has maintained his poor glovework at third, and even improved upon it a bit. The upshot is that despite the differences in their ages, he’s likely to be able to stay at the position longer.
I’m not saying Atkins is necessarily the best option out there, but he’s leaps and bounds ahead of Edwin.

by Rox Girl on Nov 12, 2008 12:36 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I actually didn't compare them based on any one year

I looked at career numbers. Since both players came up for good in 2005, I figured that was fair.

1. That’s a little dramatic. Their spreads aren’t a different as your language would imply:
Atkins: 28.7% pull; 55.3% up middle; 15.9% to right
EdE: 32.6% pull; 55.6% up middle; 11.7% to right
I won’t deny that Edwin is a pull hitter, but I think you overstate how well Atkins uses the whole field.

2. Again, I think you are overstating your case a bit. The difference between 24% line drive and 21% line drives is roughly 10 hits for every 500 balls in play. I don’t quite understand how line drives are ill-suited for a park the size of Coors. Sure maybe a couple more of them will turn into HRs at GABP, but he’ll likely also lose some singles and doubles since outfielders don’t have as much ground to cover. Of course, this is all pure speculation on both of our parts. Without any hard data, we’re both simply hypothesizing.

3. This may be true, but I doubt they would improve any more than we might expect EdE’s to improve from the simple fact that players tend to continue to get better through their age 27 or 28 season. I think this fact is a wash with EdE’s age advantage.

4. I agree. I don’t want EdE to play 3B anymore. I’ve stated it many, many times. Just because Atkins is consistently bad instead of increasingly bad doesn’t clear up the fact that the Reds would have a bad defensive 3B.

I’m not saying Atkins is a bad option, but there is no way he is leaps and bounds ahead of EdE.

"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling

by Slyde on Nov 12, 2008 12:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think sometimes it's too easy to assume

if a player is under 27 they’ll improve in coming seasons and if they’re over 27 they’ll regress, but on an individual level that’s not how it works. Some players peak early, some late, some are better able to hold onto their skills than others. So to point 3, I think you’ll wind up disappointed with Encarnacion not moving forward. I don’t see much projection left for him as he doesn’t seem to take to instruction very well, but in fairness, at the same time I really have a concern that Atkins’ down season last year may just be a sign of a steeper than normal decline. Even despite this, however, I still see Atkins as the safer play going forward if I had to choose between the two. Atkins in a good year could help a team contend if you have the right parts elsewhere, Encarnacion is too much of a liability.

The big problem is that I really wouldn’t want to have to make that choice if I’m building a team as neither are optimal choices for the position. I certainly wouldn’t trade for Atkins given the price the Rockies have been asking for him from teams, but if I’m the Reds, I’m at least keeping that option open if the price drops, because EdE’s not going the right direction losing too much on defense to make up for the only incremental offensive improvement. I think given these media reports it seems this is the place where Jocketty’s at right now, too. As a Rockies fan I hope he bites while the price is still high, but if I were a Reds fan I would be happy if you got him for a more equitable trade.

by Rox Girl on Nov 12, 2008 2:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

here's the thing

i think whatever price in prospects it would take for the Reds to get Atkins, they could just as easily get Adrian Beltre from Seattle. and Beltre is “leaps and bounds” better than both of them. he’s basically the same hitter, but instead of being one of the worst fielders he is the absolute best. so whatever argument could be made that Atkins is markedly better than EdE (i disagree), its really pointless. Beltre is way better than Atkins, and can probably be had for the same price.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 12, 2008 2:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't disagree with that point.

Beltre makes a lot more, but if you have the money to spend and didn’t want to put it elsewhere, he’d be a decent option, as you say, likely better than both. I think I’d have a hard time deciding that if I were a GM, because than you’re giving up prospects and more money, but maybe it’s worth it. Beltre’s also capable of putting up some really bad seasons, but he was sensational in his last walk year, it might be worth the risk.

Rather than any of those three, I’d like to keep the guy the Rockies have replacing Garrett. I’m just speaking to the point of this post, which was a comparison of Atkins and EdE.

by Rox Girl on Nov 12, 2008 2:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I would say two things

1. Even if you assume EdE won’t progress, you know what you’re getting offensively – his OPS+ the past 3 years is 108, 101, and 106 (I would also argue that he was pretty unlucky this year, as his bb/k ratio went up (showing better judgement), yet his BABIP was 30 points lower than his career average). Adkins’, however, has been 136, 112, and 97, which either means (a) you don’t know what you’ll get, or (b) you do and it won’t pretty.

2. EdE is already here for free. No loss of prospects. He also won’t make as much money as Adkins next year, and won’t in the next 2 years after, either.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Nov 12, 2008 2:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough.

Sacrifice a higher ceiling for a stable floor, I can understand that.

by Rox Girl on Nov 12, 2008 2:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Bullcrap

Atkins has a “higher ceiling” because of one better season at an age EdE hasn’t reached yet? He also has 2 full seasons which are worse than any full season EdE has had.

I wouldn’t be “sacrificing” anything. Adkins is, at best, an older, more expensive version of EdE; at worse,his best years are already behind him . Trading for him would be making a move just to make a move.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Nov 12, 2008 2:40 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I think you getting hung up on the price/value return for Atkins

The Reds want to improve significantly at that position and it’s not going to happen with either Atkins or EdE, no matter what the price is.

Even if the Reds could get Atkins for nothing more than an old pair of Bowden’s buttless chaps, it wouldn’t make the team significantly better.

by bengalred on Nov 12, 2008 2:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

good luck with that...

Any team improving significantly at third simply won’t happen this winter. There just isn’t anybody that talented out there. If the best you can find is Adrian Beltre, that’s not a good sign. Next winter if I was looking for a third baseman, I’d try and convince Miguel Tejada to move over, but this year the class doesn’t look too pretty.

by Rox Girl on Nov 12, 2008 2:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I played thirdbase in little league

i was a solid defensive third baseman. I had limited range, but i was able to make a play on everything I could get to. Plus I could throw the ball acuratly accrossed the infield (which was half the battle when trying to find a 9 year old third baseman). I had a light bat. The last year I played I only had one hit. With that being said, I think the Reds would be wise to pencil me in to play thirdbase next spring. Atleast give me a spring training invite. I would be late to spring training see as that I don’t graduate until the end of February, but I think I could get into playing shape pretty quickly.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Nov 12, 2008 4:32 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

and garrett atkins also gave your mom a Cincinnati Bow Tie

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Nov 12, 2008 4:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Call me if you need an agent...If I can sell art to rich white people in this economy, imagine how well we could do selling your 'up side' to the Reds.

You old coach sent me this pic of you

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

Sir Winston Churchill

by Madville on Nov 12, 2008 5:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

my dad was my coach

he made me ride the bench alot, so he wouldn’t be accused of favoritism.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Nov 12, 2008 5:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

There David Weathers goes, playing the star again.
“As far as I’m concerned, I’ve flipped the page,” Weathers told MLB.com on Wednesday.
“I don’t anticipate anything with Cincinnati,” Weathers said. “They haven’t called but once or twice. The way we are looking at it, we’re moving on. A lot teams have called looking to talk, but we haven’t been allowed to talk about numbers. I look forward to Friday.”

Looks like David Weathers won’t be a Red in 2009.

"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling

by Slyde on Nov 12, 2008 5:07 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

oh well

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Nov 12, 2008 5:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I just shat myself in joy

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Nov 12, 2008 5:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

awwwwwesome

that sandwich pick ‘ll be lookin’ real good come June.

mmmm sandwich pick ’ll…

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 12, 2008 5:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

very nice

rec ’em

"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling

by Slyde on Nov 12, 2008 5:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well played.

I’m doing my part to make this post go green.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Nov 12, 2008 5:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

“Sticking together is what good waffles admins do!”

by Brendanukkah on Nov 12, 2008 5:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

green'd

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Nov 12, 2008 5:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

wow, 6 recs

was this self-written, or should I recognize it from somewhere?

Not trying to be a jackass, just trying to acculturate myself.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Nov 12, 2008 6:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

are you asking if the whole thing is self written

or the song parody self written?

Think of me what you will...I gotta little space to fill

by chandrathan on Nov 12, 2008 6:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Bob Seger - Turn the Page

"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling

by Slyde on Nov 12, 2008 6:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I Dont Care Anymore....

who you play….(an ode to Dusty)

im waiting for that mockup anytime, bro.

by obc2 on Nov 12, 2008 7:52 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, this is crap

This is what I feared when Jocketty was brought in as an “advisor.” I’m telling you this team will be filled with stupid Cardinals replacement-level type characters like John Mabry, Scott Speizio, Adam Kennedy, and David Eckstein. And it will be at the expense of better, younger, and cheaper guys like Encarnacion.

Go ahead, remind me that Jocketty won a WS. I will punch you in the throat.

by Brian B on Nov 12, 2008 10:44 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

actually i am starting to feel a little more comfortable with Jockety

I don’t think he is a great GM, but I think he is steady. He doesn’t want the speady Taveras. Things like that are helping me gain confidence in him.

I don’t want to remind that he won a world series, but I will remind you that in 2004, the Cardinals were the class of the NL.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Nov 12, 2008 11:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

that's close enough.

Come over here. I’m going to punch you in the throat.

by Brian B on Nov 12, 2008 11:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

in 2004

they were by far the best team in the NL. I feel like he is a steadier version of Jim Bowden. He can find some diamonds in the rough, see Chris Carpenter. But he won’t pick up 88,000 5 tool, unpolished outfielders.

The 2006 world series was an accident, but 2004 was a top-flight team.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Nov 12, 2008 11:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

So

much like Dusty Baker all he needs to do is get the best player in the game again and the Reds will turn into a winner. Got it.

"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling

by Slyde on Nov 13, 2008 8:00 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Jermaine Dye, anyone?

From the Chicago Tribune:

"In his attempt to field a younger and quicker team for the future, White Sox general manager Ken Williams and high-level staff members currently are evaluating talent at the Arizona Fall League.

Williams’ standard method is acquiring at least two prospects for any front-line major-league player, such as John Danks and Nick Masset in the Brandon McCarthy trade, and Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzalez for Freddy Garcia two years ago.

That procedure apparently remains in effect, as Williams is scrutinizing prospects for deals that include right fielder Jermaine Dye, according to two National League scouts.

Williams elected to keep Dye in the midst of a 90-loss season in 2007 and re-signed him to a two-year, $22 million contract that includes a mutual option for 2010."

   Reds players in the AFL are Carlos Fisher, Robert Manuel, Pedro Viola, Sean Watson, Justin Turner, Chris Valaika and Drew Stubbs.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Nov 13, 2008 8:58 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

maybe if he was all they needed

but I’m not sure the Reds are in a position right now to be trading for 35-year olds who can’t play defense anymore. He’s definitely a good hitter, but the Reds need more if they are going to compete. He’d be the final piece that I pick up to finish off the team, and the Reds are a long way from that step. (NOTE: the real last piece would be signing a closer, but since the Reds have already jumped to that step…)

"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling

by Slyde on Nov 13, 2008 9:06 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No thanks

His OPS+ each of the past 5 years has been 105, 118, 151, 105, 126. As Slyde mentioned, he can no longer play defense and is 35 years old.

I think you’d be extremely lucky if he turned out as a better hitter than EdE this year, which would make it like the worst of acquiring both Adkins and Beltre – not an upgrade, but hideously expensive.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Nov 13, 2008 9:24 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yuck

i’ll take Swisher

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 13, 2008 9:39 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i've always had a soft spot for Dye

mostly because I remember him hitting a home run in his first major league at bat for the Braves after David Justice dislocated his shoulder. Things like that are cool to an 8 year old.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can’t think of at least two ways to spell any word."-Andy Jack

by justin007000 on Nov 13, 2008 11:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

perhaps God is on our side

Rockies GM Dan O’Dowd called the Atkins-to-Reds rumors “comical” (via traderumors, as always). i guess it makes some sense for them to keep Atkins now that Holliday is gone. i dont care really, whatever keeps the Reds from making stupid move.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 13, 2008 2:02 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

yay!

trade rumors are stupid. we shouldn’t pay them any attention. unless they’re from rosenthal, who has some credence…

by Daedalus on Nov 13, 2008 6:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought God was on the Rockies' side

Plus we got rid of Hamilton which can’t be favored in His eyes.

by Red Menace on Nov 13, 2008 9:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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