What do you think the Reds....

by thegashousegang on Oct 22, 2008 7:14 PM EDT

need to do to get this team to reach .500? I've read some of the posts here of what people would like to do over the winter to the reds. However, I'd like to get your input as to what is the weakest spot on the Reds. What is the next weakest spot and so on.

I really was impressed by the Reds young pitching staff during the year and was equally impressed by Bruce. Lincoln seemed to show flashes of very good relief.

However, my knowledge about the Reds is limited so I'm really interested in what you all think the Reds need to fix first, how to get to .500, then to the mid-80's in wins and then how you would finally get the divisional title.

Please excuse my ignorance about the Reds, but I am here to learn and I think I have the amount of words needed to post this, I hope. :) Thank you for your time, your input and please know I am reading and learning and thankful that you have taken the time to share.

God Bless You All

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Comments

Here are a few good places to start

Conversation from October 17 started by an outside poster who put himself in the shoes of Walt Jockety.

Conversation from September 29 about one of our biggest holes, a right handed run producer.

There you will see conversations about our biggest questions:

CF, LF, 3B, SS, and Catcher.

Tanzen!

by Verka Serduchka on Oct 22, 2008 8:07 PM EDT reply actions

only half of the positions on the field

"It will put a smile on your face to see a Chevy with a Soviet transmission"

by justin007000 on Oct 22, 2008 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Thank you for sterring me to these

two excellent articles and comments. I learned a lot about the Reds. Lots of hope for the future and next year should prove to be a decent year. I’m going to study it more. Thank you again for these two articles are excellent! :)

"It ain't braggin' if you can back it up."
-Dizzy Dean

by thegashousegang on Oct 23, 2008 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions

er... steering not sterring..

"It ain't braggin' if you can back it up."
-Dizzy Dean

by thegashousegang on Oct 23, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions

its ok, been known to ster it up around here on occasion

Tanzen!

by Verka Serduchka on Oct 23, 2008 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Oh, this was a good one too:

Conversation from October 10 started by Slyde about the forty man and where our priorities should be in terms of keeping folks or putting them up for trades, or just flat out not ever allowing them to play for our team ever again.

Tanzen!

by Verka Serduchka on Oct 23, 2008 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Walt's simple to do list:

1. find a cathcer to back up Hannigan
2. find a right handed slugger to play OF or 3B

by jacob brumfield on Oct 23, 2008 8:42 AM EDT reply actions

Here's hoping the goal isn't .500.

I’m of the opinion that you’re either all in for a run at a championship or you’re seriously rebuilding toward that goal. Anything in between is futile. I suppose .500 could happen along the way, but I never like to think of that as a goal at the MLB level.

I can see that as a short-term goal in rebuilding a college football or basketball program, but not at the pro level.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Oct 23, 2008 8:56 AM EDT reply actions

definitely, one should always go for it all....

and if I had a team (well, that will never happen) and my GM only aimed for .500 he would be gone immediately. My question was badly worded I realize in retrospect. What I should’ve asked is what do you think it would take to get the Reds to .500, then what would you add to get them to the mid-80’s in wins and then what do you do next to get the division title and so on. :)

The major thing I seem to read is that Jocketty moves too slow in bringing up prospects… is that correct? If so, why does he move so slow? Is it because he thinks holding them back helps make them more ready for the majors or is it another reason?

"It ain't braggin' if you can back it up."
-Dizzy Dean

by thegashousegang on Oct 23, 2008 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions

That wasn't really evident this season

Votto started the season over Scott Hatteberg. Bruce and Bailey were both brought up right away (maybe they should have started the season in the bigs – Bruce especially – but Wayne Krivsky was still GM at the beginning of the year). Danny Ray Herrera and Chris Dickerson both made appearances. Ryan Hanigan might have won himself the starting catcher’s job.

In part, Jocketty’s hand was forced by injuries and trades. But when he traded Griffey and Dunn, he didn’t get back anyone over 25. In his limited moves, he never added any veteran retreads to the roster. And if there’s a complaint to be made about playing time for youngsters, I would put the majority of the blame on the shoulders of one Dusty Baker.

Apart from playing his guys – Patterson and Bako – too much, there’s also not that much of a complaint to be made about Dusty favoring veterans over youngsters. Our bench coming out of spring training was made up of older guys (Jolbert Cabrera, Jerry Hairston Jr., Andy Phillips, etc.). But we didn’t make any moves to get older. I think overall, our management has done a pretty good job of making the commitment to the younger players.

Someone who knows more about the minors than me can help you with this, but it sure seemed like our prospects were getting promoted to higher levels faster under Jocketty than they were under Krivsky.

by Brendanukkah on Oct 23, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions

Bruce

Was held back so he wouldn’t end up being a Super-2, I refuse to believe otherwise.

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Oct 23, 2008 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions

i dont care about Super-2

i want to see him locked up for the next 9 years. how about 80 mil?

"If you don't get the President of the United States on that phone, you know what's gonna happen to you? You're gonna have to answer to the Coca-Cola company."

by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 23, 2008 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions

Sold!

I’d do that deal.

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Oct 23, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions

too high

Considering Longoria’s contract would pay him 44M over 9 years if the Rays exercise all the options.

by Red Menace on Oct 23, 2008 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah but

Bruce (and more importantly his agent) would point to that deal as being grossly underpaying Longoria, which it will be if everything plays out the way it’s supposed to.

You’re right, $80 million may be a little excessive. But I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see 9 years/$65 million.

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Oct 24, 2008 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions

still too much

Longoria is getting paid so low because he’s getting paid for his pre-arb and arb years. No team would be foolish enough to lock up a player at market value when they have them on the very cheap anyway. The advantage for the player is that they are guaranteed money 5 or 6 years from now even if they get hurt. That’s why their contract seems undervalued. It’s a trade-off.

There is no reason to pay Bruce 20 million more than Longoria when Longoria has already performed better in the Majors.

"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling

by Slyde on Oct 24, 2008 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions

All I'm saying

Is if Bruce has a competent agent (who is his agent, anyway?), said agent will invariably point to Longoria’s contract/production and try to get a better deal for his guy.

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Oct 24, 2008 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Also

I’m not saying Bruce is worth $65 million at all, I just wouldn’t be surprised to see it. IMHO, even the Longoria deal is too big a risk from management’s side.

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Oct 24, 2008 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions

nah

it’s all insured. The Longoria deal is brilliant because the options don’t kick in until after he would become a free agent. The most they would have to spend for his first 6 years of service is 22 million with his last season only costing $6 million. If he’s good, he’s really cheap. If he’s hurt, he’s covered by insurance. If he sucks, well, it’s not the worst contract in the world.

"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling

by Slyde on Oct 24, 2008 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions

I wondered how it was loaded

That makes sense then. 3.7 mil/yr average for all six of his arb years? Not too shabby.

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Oct 24, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions

he wouldn't be much use in prison.

"It will put a smile on your face to see a Chevy with a Soviet transmission"

by justin007000 on Oct 23, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Walt's complicated to do list:

1. determine if Edwin is a defensive liability at 3B. Can he improve at the hot corner? Would he be better suited as a left fielder?
2. what the hell should I expect out of Alex Gonzalez? Do I risk swapping him positions with Brandon Phillips? Do I explore other SSs available by trade or free agency?
3. that Dickerson fella….is he legit? should I count on him as my starting CF or just a platoon OF?
4. Homer Bailey?? is he a complete wash out that needs traded before losing all value? should he convert to the pen? or should we just show patience and let him figure it out? the talent is there, but where is his head?
6. should I accept Slyde’s invitation to play dungeons and dragons in his basement? or take Mark Ellis’ warning that the guy is a stalker with bad doritos breath?

by jacob brumfield on Oct 23, 2008 9:07 AM EDT reply actions

hey...

why didn’t you invite ME to play D&D in your basement, Slyde?

I guess I know who your favorite Jacob Brumfield fan is now.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Oct 23, 2008 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions

perhaps he's just initimidated by your 8th level werewolf powers

Then 'twas the Roman, now 'tis I.

by Man Mountain on Oct 23, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions

or your 11 THACO.

But it was always better in the garage

Tanzen!

by Verka Serduchka on Oct 23, 2008 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Better Pitching and Change in Park's Dimensions

….our pitching was terrible yet again this season, and the park’s fences, especially down the lines, are too short (that and the non-existent foul territory). There’s nothing you can do about the foul territory, but I would back up the fences along the lines several feet, and while they’re at it find 3, 4, and 5 starters who are worth a heck. I suppose we’re stuck with Harang and Arroyo, but there has to be a second rate reclamation project somewhere that is more competent than Josh Fogg (the Juan Castro of the rotation).

by tonywf on Oct 25, 2008 4:05 AM EDT reply actions

i disagree

our rotation is probably one of the strongest in the NL. that didnt necessarily show up in the numbers this past season though, as Harang had a bad year (most likely due to injury, Cueto was 22, and Arroyo had one inexcusable game.

our front 4 all project to be above league average, and 3 of them are capable of much more than that. our 5th starter spot is also relatively promising, as Owings, Ramirez, Bailey, and Thompson are all capable of handling the job acceptably well. no Belisles or Foggs there.

"If you don't get the President of the United States on that phone, you know what's gonna happen to you? You're gonna have to answer to the Coca-Cola company."

by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 25, 2008 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions

Problem with Reds Pitching....

“our rotation is probably one of the strongest in the NL. that didnt necessarily show up in the numbers this past season though”

Anytime when reality contradicts what you think, it’s time to take a second look at what constitutes the ‘projections.’ Well, let us look at those projections. Of the starters, only two terribly underperformed (Arroyo and Fogg [I exclude Cueto because he’s a rookie]). Harang’s performance is on par with his career numbers and is only considered a bad year because of his record (which anyone knows is useless in judging a pitcher’s skill). One of those pitchers had a career year (Volquez). The bullpen basically performed as it was supposed to, if anything slightly above expectations, particularly for Affeldt, Weathers, and Bray. And what did we get for all of this? 13th in the NL in ERA, opponents with a near .800 OPS, and over 200 home runs surrendered (for the fifth time in the last six seasons). In essence, this is what the norm is for this pitching staff, with the pitchers that it has. You can say that it is underrated, but again reality is what it is.

Backing up the fences, on the corners, will help reduce the number of home runs that the team gives up (and it surrendering nearly 30% more home runs at home than on the road). It would give them a slight edge, and let’s face it needs one because we are not in the running to pick up any Johan Santanas anytime soon.

As for the offense, I’m much more hopeful, because of Votto and Bruce, and the upside of their talent (and the fact that even the dumbest manager in baseball will not be able to waste at bats next season on Corey Patterson). The pitching, however, is going to continue to be an issue. Cueto is going to have to become another Volquez, and Arroyo and Harang do better than their norm, for this team to have a chance of winning next season. That is a lot to hope for.

by tonywf on Oct 25, 2008 9:49 PM EDT reply actions

What the Reds need to do for '09:

We need ballgirls
We already got Cheerleaders
Now lets get some ballgirls, but not those cutesy, 000hhh I might break a nail girls that can’t handle a glove. We need some ballwomen…some flat bull dyke softballers. The kind of woman that can throw the ball harder than Jamie Moyer. The kind of ballwoman that will scale the fence in left field and make the kind of play that Hobart Burrito could never hope make. that is what this team needs..by God I’d go see a lot more games…I mean don’t get me wrong I like the DMX squad or whatever the cheerleaders call themselves..but goddamnit I go to GABP to see an occasional great play or two and ballwomen are just what will fill the bill…or maybe the Jill…

Or at least get a pitcher….

Sgt. McCAin and Sarah The Impaler don't scare me none.

by Madville on Oct 26, 2008 1:22 AM EDT reply actions

thanks to everyone who posted here. :)

I have a lot of reading and digesting to do but what a great way to pass the off season. Thank you for all the input, insights and articles to read. With what you all have told me and what I’ve read and with what I heard on MLB audio this last season it looks like the Reds are on the right track and heading in the right direction. Will be fun to see what happens in the next season. :) Again, thank you!!!!

"It ain't braggin' if you can back it up."
-Dizzy Dean

by thegashousegang on Oct 26, 2008 11:25 AM EDT reply actions