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McCoy: Can the Reds be the Phillies?

As writer's are prone to do this time of season, Hal McCoy wonders whether the 2009 Reds could be the 2008 Phillies next season.  He poses several questions to that end:

Can Edison Volquez be Cole Hamels? Why not?

Can Brandon Phillips be Chase Utley? Why not?

Can Joey Votto be Ryan Howard. Why not?

Can Jay Bruce be Shane Victorino. Why not?

Can Francisco Cordero be Brad Lidge? Why not?

Can Alex Gonzalez be Jimmy Rollins? Why not?

Can Hal be serious?  Let's break it down...

The Wagon vs. Hamels is a decent comp.  Volquez was close to Hamels this season, so it's not without merit.  In fact, I would say the Reds have a better starting rotation overall than the Phillies, especially if you assume that Harang is finally recovered from his San Diego relief appearance (we need a name for that game).

BP vs. Utley is not even close.  Both players had a typical season compared to their career numbers and Utley topped BP by 31 points in batting average, 68 points in OBP, and 93 points in slugging, all while playing arguably better defense than BP.  Phillips has a long way to go to be Chase Utley.  A long way.

Votto vs. Howard is closer than I expected.  Howard (in 2008) definitely has the power advantage, but Votto makes up the difference in batting average and OBP.  I think there is very little chance of Votto getting close to Howard's best seasons or matching his power output, but I think it's plausible for him to match Ryan Howard in 2008 in overall production.

Bruce vs. Victorino is an odd comp because they are very different players.  I don't believe that Bruce will match Victorino's production in 2009, but I think eventually he'll be the better player. 

CoCo vs Lidge isn't close this year.  Lidge had an incredible, nearly flawless year.  Not that CoCo can't do it, or that he has to do it, but what Lidge did this year rare.  Sure, relief pitchers - especially closers - pitch so few innings that it could be duplicated, but it's very doubtful.  What's more important though is that the Reds will need to match the entire Phillies bullpen.  They were close this year, but there is still work to do.  It will be tough.

Sea Bass vs. JRoll is ludicrous.  Gonzalez had a career year in 2007 and didn't play at all in the 2008.  Rollins's career numbers are still better than Gonzalez's best season and 2008 was a fairly average season for Rollins.  I think Rollins is overrated, but I also think that Gonzalez isn't even close.

So, what do you think?  Can the Reds go to the series next year?

Comment 45 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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Before we talk about the Series

We’ve got to talk about making the playoffs. After the Sox won last year, I read a quote from Theo Epstein that basically said he builds a team that can get to the playoffs. Once you’re in the playoffs, however, it’s basically a crap shoot.

So yeah, I have to think we’re not too far from being capable of that. I think we’re about there with our starting five. And I think we may have the necessary depth to cover the inevitable injuries in the rotation.

Unfortunately, we’re a couple of bats away and a couple of gloves away. But if those both show up this off season, then we’re right there fighting for the Central or at least the wild card. Then roll the dice!

Youth wins games; veteran presence wins championships!

by ben nevis on Oct 16, 2008 4:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Bull

I know it’s accepted among the numbers guys (famously by Billy Beane), but I call bullshit on the notion that all you can do is build a team to get to the playoffs; that the post-season is a “crap shoot”.

What gets you through a season? Sure, talent is #1 (and smart trades #1A), but depth and luck also have alot to do with it. Key players don’t go down, or don’t go down for extended periods. Lots and lots of interchangable roll players. The season is a long, long march.

The playoffs are completely different, though. Two dominant starters can complete dominate in a way they cannot during the season. Or, if none of your regulars wilt under the lights, that can be huge. In other words, the playoffs is a sprint.

I guess what I’m saying is it takes your whole 25 man roster (and parts of the 40 man) to win 100 games; but to win in the playoffs, you just need your studs to act like studs, and not little girls.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Oct 16, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree, sorta

I think it is largely a crapshoot. But that doesn’t mean you can’t load the dice a little.

Power pitching, a lights-out closer, and good defense help in the post-season. Why? Basically, because they are less vulnerable to the flukes of luck that become so important in a sprint. Hitters can go into slumps; defense rarely does. A power pitcher is less likely to have a bad night than a finesse pitcher.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 16, 2008 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

is there any statistical anyalsis to back up

a good power pitcher is less likely to have a bad night than a good finesse pitcher. I never really understood that. I mean overall there are more good pitchers who throw 95, rather than 87 (I am guessing) but that is because a pitcher who throws 95 is more talented. I don’t think Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine had very many bad nights in their prime.

"It will put a smile on your face to see a Chevy with a Soviet transmission"

by justin007000 on Oct 16, 2008 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

explain the 2006 Cardinals?

Carpenter and? I will argue that Harang and Arroyo were a better one two punch, than the Cards had that year, and the Reds had more starting pitching depth than the Cards.

"It will put a smile on your face to see a Chevy with a Soviet transmission"

by justin007000 on Oct 16, 2008 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wasn't clear

I was talking about their regular hitters. Six played in all 5 games; all had an OBP over .350, and only Preston Wilson didn’t have an OPS over .700.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Oct 17, 2008 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

Even though you misspelled Cuns.

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Oct 17, 2008 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Again, let me clarify

I don’t think there’s a “formula” either.

But more often than not, teams that are built to make the playoffs do just that – make the playoffs. They don’t win championships (like the early ‘00 A’s) because the roster and bench is often shortened to just their best players, who aren’t as good as other teams’.

Teams built to win championships (like the current Sox and Yankees) may not always make the playoffs, but they have the top-end talent to get it done when they’re there.

Often wrong, never uncertain.

by sidnancy on Oct 17, 2008 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, it says here

That ’ol Hal is really reaching for shit.

Vote Pops in '08. I promise nothing and I'll do it!

by Pops Daniels on Oct 16, 2008 4:23 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I think it says

“insert crass blind joke here”

Vote Pops in '08. I promise nothing and I'll do it!

by Pops Daniels on Oct 17, 2008 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

hahaha its funny

cause hes blindish

Brent Jonathan Beck

by Brent Beck on Oct 18, 2008 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great, great post.

You worked hard for this rec, don’t spend it all in one place.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Oct 16, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

i rec'd it for

“cueto is a cuestion”. Finally somebody gets me.

"It will put a smile on your face to see a Chevy with a Soviet transmission"

by justin007000 on Oct 16, 2008 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

/splat'd

I was gonna rec it anyways because I am in awe of numbers of murky provenance. But “cueto is a cuestion” seals the deal. We all have our cuirks

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Oct 16, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

cuit it

"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."

by jch24 on Oct 16, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

awww

you guys are so qute playin’ around like you are!

great post jonesy (can i call you jonesy?) . it is not impossible for this team to make the playoffs next year, but it will take a nearly unprecedented improvement (Rays?). it can happen, but im not holding my breath.

by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 16, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

gee thanks

I’ve never been green’d before. :)

Scrabbles, you can call me anything you want. Y’all will anyway. :)

by bbjones on Oct 16, 2008 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know anything about Akins Law.

but I know Murphy’s generally is the law that applies to the Reds.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Oct 17, 2008 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

If wishes were horses....

    Can Edison Volquez be Cole Hamels? Why not?

    Can Brandon Phillips be Chase Utley? Why not?

    Can Charlie Scrabbles be Mark Berry ? Why not?

    Can Slyde be SidNanacy ? Why not?

    Can Francisco Cordero be Ricardo Montalbán? Why not?

    Can Dusty Baker be Jim Fregosi ? Why not?

   Can Anna Torv be Mrs. M ? Just for a day or two…..

Sgt. McCAin and Sarah The Impaler don't scare me none.

by Madville on Oct 16, 2008 6:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Mark Berry??

why cant i be Ricardo Montalban?

by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 16, 2008 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well we really need a real 3B coach, you know...

Someone who is aggressive but tempered by logic and up to date information on the other team’s defensive players…. or yeah if you want you could be Ricardo

Sgt. McCAin and Sarah The Impaler don't scare me none.

by Madville on Oct 17, 2008 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Nope

The Reds have as good of chance getting to the World Series next year as I do getting a date with Megan Fox.

Norris Hopper's #1 fan!!!

by Zach K on Oct 16, 2008 6:23 PM EDT reply actions  

really?

I mean this team isn’t too far away from being a good team. Lets just imagine that Bruce and Votto takea step forward, Dickerson is average, and lets say Stubbs, Dorn, or a free agent makes an impact next year. You add that to what appears strong starting staff, and find a replacement for Affeldt and Weathers, this team is ready to fucking rock and role. I wouldn’t bet the rent on it, but I wouldn’t bet against it either.

Plus Zombrano is in decline, the Cards were a fluke this year, the Astro’s will have to implode at some point, and the Brewers willl be without Ben Sheets and CC, and will i think there is still a team in PIttsburgh but they don’t really do anything accept pay Matt Morris money to not pitch for them.

"It will put a smile on your face to see a Chevy with a Soviet transmission"

by justin007000 on Oct 16, 2008 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

my formula for a Reds WS

Bruce and Votto need to keep on keeping on, you need a quality position player FA and maybe a good bench FA, add a waiver wire pick up or two ala Edmonds and that short CF to the Cuns this year, and somebody to step up in the bullpen from the minors or DL. Maybe the most important thing is Jocketty has to heavily influence the Dust-o-matic. No insane pitch counts or worshipping of veteran-ness.

If you did, imagine the torment that watching Dusty through the playoffs would cause other teams. Might even scuttle another team as some idiot GM thought, hey we need a guy like Dusty.

by ol Pete on Oct 18, 2008 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Zach, buddy

You seem a little confused….The Reds have a minimal but possible chance of getting to the series
However, No RR, has any chance of gettiing a date with Megan

Sgt. McCAin and Sarah The Impaler don't scare me none.

by Madville on Oct 17, 2008 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

How do you know?

Nikita the Stripper could be a member of this site!

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 17, 2008 6:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think your severley underestimating

the dapperness of some of these posters

Are there any more dinner rolls? -President Ted Kennedy

by The Crushinator on Oct 17, 2008 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

heh, for whatever reason

I assume that someone who goes by “The Crushinator” has a lot in common with “the Todd”, which makes posts like these a lot more entertaining.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Oct 17, 2008 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or The Shermanator

"Patterson, Keppinger, Bako.... Cream of the Suck" -Slyde

by snohio on Oct 20, 2008 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

This just in:

Hopeful-CF-of-the-future Drew Stubbs loves exclamation marks!

OK, I really don’t mean that as making fun of him. It should be pretty awesome to keep up with him in the AFL, and I’m really, really, rooting for him. But I really like the idea of him talking with as much excitement as he writes! He could be the verbal Ryan Freel!

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Oct 16, 2008 7:04 PM EDT reply actions  

I refuse to take this serious…

*Turns up WhiteSnake’s “is this love”

by Thebukkakebandit on Oct 16, 2008 7:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Unchecked optimism

Gonzo isnt even close to anything with Gonzo, thats why not, the guy didnt play this year and we dont know if he can play now, let alone at the highest level, and when he did play he wasnt as good as Rollins……….he isnt MVP caliber thats why not.

Volquez and Cole, ok yeah there is a comparison, shut down pitchers.

Bphil doesnt bring the offense that Utley does but overall I would call this a wash, they are both top level 2nd basemen.

comparing Joey Votto to Ryan Howard is like comparing Adam Dunn to Evan Longoria…..they are all good but it just doesnt make any sense, they arent the same type of player and they dont bring the same kind of numbers, but production yes.

Can CoCo be Lidge……no, that doenst even deserve a why. He wasnt Lidge before his meltdown, he isnt lidge now, he wont be Lidge. We paid Coco to be better than he is, he is good, but he isnt Lidge, Lidge doesnt blow saves…..and he gets a team that actually puts the game into save situations.

Why would Jay Bruce be Victorino? That would mean he didnt meet the hype and owuld be a dissapointment. Victorino is good, but Bruce is supposed to be a goddamn prodigy. Once again they arent the same player I dont really understand this.

Good post above, glad this article got brought to attention but all in all….what just happened? A reds logo at the top of the paper saying “Next year is the year” would have made more sense.

After thinking about this more in depth…..can I do Hal McCoy`s job?

why not?

by Reynard on Oct 16, 2008 7:46 PM EDT reply actions  

No love for Satan's Rays of Sunshine tonight?

They’re already up two. In the first half-inning.

Is everyone watching Hole in the Wall instead?

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 16, 2008 8:17 PM EDT reply actions  

I’m hanging around. Put up a fanpost and others will drift in.

by ol Pete on Oct 16, 2008 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

you got me hooked on TheOilDrum, for what its worth

I’m currently listening to Cansei de Ser Sexy and reading it. You should be proud of one of those.

...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield

by Cy Schourek on Oct 16, 2008 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ask and ye shall receive.

Threadz.

"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands

by BK on Oct 16, 2008 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reds/Phillies

I think any one of the things McCoy mentions could possibly happen—although some are better chances than others. The big question is whether all of those things would happen, all at once, in the same year. I think it’s more likely that we’ll see real improvement from Votto and Bruce, and that BP’s numbers go up. I think Cordero will save 30+ games if the Reds stink and 40+ if they are good. It’s hopeful that Gonzalez will give us one good year. I think on the whole taht Volquez will still be good, Harang will rebound, Arroyo will win fewer games than he did this year, Cueto will improve, and Bailey will get every shot at 5th starter. And the Reds will be better, even if they don’t add any impact players.

by jamesp50014 on Oct 18, 2008 6:12 PM EDT reply actions  

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