10 Things I'd like to see this off-season
I want to look at some things that I'm hoping the Reds will do this off-season. Things that I think will move them towards being a more successful team next year. Some are specific, some are general, and most are more or less out of my ass.
1. Get someone to work with Jay Bruce and Joey Votto on their defense.
This goes for everyone, but specifically these two guys. Both players are the cornerstone for the Reds offense over the next 5 seasons or so. Work with them now to turn them into complete players so that we're not forced to do a lot of "yeah, but..." with them.
Chris Welsh mentioned earlier this year that when Albert Pujols was moved to first base, he was always out on the field before batting practice taking ground balls and throws to get better and he didn't understand why the Reds didn't do it with Votto. Take this opportunity to work both of these guys into gold glove players. They both have the talent, and they both appear to have the drive to succeed. Take advantage of that before the losing mentality that permeates this team starts to set in.
2. Move Edwin Encarnacion.
I'm a huge EdE fan, but he should not be playing 3B anymore. His defense all but removes any positive contributions he makes on offense. Either move him to LF and trade for a 3B or trade him as part of a deal to bring a more significant bat into the lineup (likely to play LF). I hope he's part of the future, because I think he's got the talent to put up a .280/.360/.490 batting line every year. But if he's doing it while he's hurting the team on defense, it doesn't matter much.
3. Sign Mark Ellis to play second base and move Brandon Phillips to shortstop.
You knew this was coming. Phillips is probably an average to slightly above average defender at shortstop, but that's better than anything the Reds have right now. He's probably also an average to slightly above offensive player at shortstop as well. Again, better than what the Reds have right now. Ellis is probably the best defensive 2B in the league, and while his batting line doesn't look that strong, he's been doing it in a ballpark that is significantly harder to hit in than GABP. He's not much more than a league average hitter, if that, but his defense makes him one of the most valuable second basemen in the league. Having both he and BP up the middle will do wonders for improving the Reds on defense. And offensively, they won't be great, but it will be pretty good for middle infielders.
Addendum: Another name that is being tossed about as being available is Brian Roberts. He's signed for 2009 at $8 million, so he's likely more expensive and would require trading some players to get him. However, he's decent defensively and has an excellent bat. I'd still go for Ellis first, but I wouldn't do a deal without inquiring on what it would take to get Roberts.
4. Get a significant bat for LF or 3B.
As comprised right now, the Reds aren't going to score a lot of runs next season. Adding another strong hitter to the lineup is a must if they want to be competitive. We've all heard the names Matt Holliday, Pat Burrell, and Adrian Beltre get tossed around, but Thundering Turtle also has me interested in David Dejesus, who could play CF occassionally as well. I'm sure there are plenty of other names out there (like Raul Ibanez or Milton Bradley), probably some that we don't even know are available. The point is that the Reds should have somebody with an .850+ OPS in each of those positions. EdE could be one of them - hopefully either playing better defense in LF or being covered at 3B by a very good defensive shortstop - and the Reds need to find someone to play the other spot. And they have to be good.

5. Dickerson/Stubbs '09
Drew Stubbs still looks like he'll be the long-term answer in CF. He hit much better last season in Double-A and Triple-A and he appears to have made some significant progress. Chris Dickerson is likely on the border between everyday player and 4th outfielder. His minor league numbers were unimpressive outside of 2008, but he gets on base enough and plays good enough defense that he could probably play every day for long stretches during the season.
Looking at his numbers in the minors, though, his ideal role might be in a platoon. As a minor leaguer, he put up an .828 OPS against right-handers, but just a .647 OPS against lefties. The best option for the team is probably to platoon Dickerson with someone like Ryan Freel for the first few months of the season. Dickerson will get about two-thirds of the ABs, and Freel won't be as dangerous to himself or his teammates. Then, depending on how the platoon is going and how Stubbs is playing in Louisville, the Reds could bring up Stubbs to take all of Freel's and some of Dickerson's at bats and get moving toward the future.
The key this off-season is to not waste money on a CF. The Reds have a viable stopgap on the team right now and a potential everyday starter who is nearly ready. Both are strong defensively at a key defensive position. Let them play!
6. Build a smart bench.
A bench with Jerry Hairston and Ryan Freel is redundant. Keeping Norris Hopper on top of that would be stupid. Walt Jocketty has a history of putting together solid, useful benches while in St. Louis. Hopefully he can bring that success to Cincinnati. Jeff Keppinger is an ideal bench player who can handle many positions and makes good contact. That's who you want in a pinch hitter. Alex Gonzalez isn't likely going anywhere, but by no means should be counted on to be the starter at shortstop. This team can't afford another season musical shortstops. Sea Bass would make an excellent bench option who can cover the position in an emergency.
They'll obviously add in a back-up catcher, but please, only one. Three catchers is stupid waste of resources. Because he is signed for $4million, Freel will likely have a spot to start the season. That's not terrible, but it leaves the bench with some serious need for a left-handed bat and a bat with some power. My first thought was somebody like Matt Stairs, but then I noticed that he'll be 41 next season, so maybe not him specifically, but someone in that mold. It'd be nice if he could play some defense, but honestly, that's probably not completely necessary at this point. It's more important that the Reds have a strong hitter on the bench that can come in and deliver some pop late in the game. That is to say, not LLM.
7. A catcher to split time with Ryan Hanigan.
Maybe it's Wilkin Castillo, whose minor league splits balance out Hanigan's - though Hanigan is a better hitter versus both lefties and righties. Or maybe it's someone like Josh Bard, who could add the necessary veteran presence that we all know you need at the catcher position. Or maybe Jocketty might be able to steal away one of the vaunted Ranger catchers in a deal (not Gerald Laird, please). Whoever it is, it's a good chance to be crafty and hopefully not overspend. Hanigan may not be the catcher of the future for the Reds, but he can probably hold down the position for a year or two until we find that guy. Unless that catcher of the future becomes available in a trade, just get somebody serviceable to split the time.
8. Bullpen on the cheap.
The Reds signed 3 free agents in the bullpen last off-season. For the first four months of the season, the two best of those three had been Jeremy Affeldt and Mike Lincoln (before he collapsed in August). Francisco Cordero wasn't terrible this season, but for the money that was spent on him, he wasn't all that impressive either. The 'pen already has Bill Bray and Jared Burton to back up Cordero. Josh Roenicke could be a stud and Daniel Ray Herrera might be a solid LOOGY. There are pieces already there. Don't waste money on overrated bullpen help. Find a couple of deals on the market to fill out the bullpen and I think the Reds could have a very good set. This is another area where I have confidence that Jocketty will come through.
9. Don't gut the system.
If the Reds are going to be competitive next year, deals will have to be made. They have a lot of depth, though very few stars, in the minors right now and some of that depth will need to be utilized to improve the big league squad. My concern is that the Reds might squander that depth to win now. A team like the Reds needs to utilize it's cheap talent efficiently. If they are going to sign players off the free agent market or lock players up long-term, they need to be able to offset that cost with young players. Don't clean that talent pool out just to sell a few more tickets this year. Work hard to maintain that balance for the future and the present. I don't want just one winning season. I want a dynasty!
10. Market the players.
The Reds have a ton of young talent - Bruce, Votto, Cueto, Volquez - and some guys moving into their prime - BP, EdE, Burton. I should see these guys plastered all over the city. Get this town excited about baseball again, so that when it all clicks together, there is already some momentum built up. Turn Cincinnati back into the baseball town it used to be. Not only will it help ticket sales, but it will turn the Reds back into a team that players want to play for. Winning has to be a part of that as well, but that's going to come soon. Be ready for it.
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Nice work, Slyde
Can someone send this to Walter J?
"Yes, and it's so important in this sport that the athletes be able to train in the same location." -Cynthia Potter, NBC Synchronized Diving Analyst
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on Oct 14, 2008 9:55 AM EDT 0 recs
what good would that do?
The Big Train is dead.
(Long live The Wagon!)
...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield
by Cy Schourek on
Oct 14, 2008 1:31 PM EDT
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Walter sounds more professional than Walt.
I’m, of course, referring to Walter Jockerrty
"Yes, and it's so important in this sport that the athletes be able to train in the same location." -Cynthia Potter, NBC Synchronized Diving Analyst
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on
Oct 14, 2008 1:44 PM EDT
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You're not wrong, Walter
You’re just an asshole.
by Brendanukkah on
Oct 14, 2008 1:48 PM EDT
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It's the ringer, dude.
"Yes, and it's so important in this sport that the athletes be able to train in the same location." -Cynthia Potter, NBC Synchronized Diving Analyst
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on
Oct 14, 2008 1:50 PM EDT
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Another Walter?

“And that’s why you always leave a note!”
"Yes, and it's so important in this sport that the athletes be able to train in the same location." -Cynthia Potter, NBC Synchronized Diving Analyst
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on
Oct 14, 2008 3:36 PM EDT
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I know I have been gone for awhile
but that does not mean people can just use AD references willy-nilly without my permission
"I never should have given up the animation rights."
by BobbyO on
Oct 14, 2008 10:06 PM EDT
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J. Walter Jockerty
is my new nickname suggestion for the Reds GM. He’s going to teach those other GMs a lesson!
"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands
by BK on
Oct 15, 2008 1:03 PM EDT
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I like it.
And that’s why you never try to teach your father a lesson!
"Yes, and it's so important in this sport that the athletes be able to train in the same location." -Cynthia Potter, NBC Synchronized Diving Analyst
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on
Oct 15, 2008 1:28 PM EDT
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Barney was only 59 when he cashed in...yow! My age
Sgt. McCAin and Sarah The Impaler don't scare me none.
by Madville on
Oct 14, 2008 3:45 PM EDT
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This is why I love this site
Here it is, Oct 14, and the Reds have been meaningless for a few months already. And yet, because I know I’m going to get posts like this that make me excited for my team in the off season, I return to RR everyday. I love it. Does anyone else find themselves more excited about the off season than most of the regular season? Ugh. I wish it were the other way around.
I’m in agreement with most of what Slyde’s got up there. And I have to say that because Walt is at the helm, I feel fairly confident that much of these needs will be addressed in a positive manner. For example, the mention of Pujols in the Bruce/Votto bullet leads me to believe that Walt won’t overlook their defensive development. The same with the bench, as Slyde mentioned. Basically, I feel way better having a GM who has shown he knows how to build a team. Now let’s get this World Series over with so we can do some dealin’!
Youth wins games; veteran presence wins championships!
by ben nevis on Oct 14, 2008 10:18 AM EDT 0 recs
So if we did this...
our opening-day lineup would be, what?
C Hanigan
1B Votto
2B Ellis
SS BP
3B ?
LF EdE
CF Dickerson
RF Bruce
So a lineup of, say:
Dickerson
EdE
Bruce
BP
Votto
?
Ellis (don’t forget that his OBP was .321 this year—.337 career)
Hanigan
Since of course we have to maintain the L/R alternation. Right?
I’m not sure how many runs this lineup is going to produce.
This place is like a sexy preschool.
by Gray on Oct 14, 2008 11:08 AM EDT 0 recs
Well, if Beltre is the question mark, I think that's a pretty solid lineup
"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands
by BK on
Oct 14, 2008 11:11 AM EDT
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If Beltre is the question mark
I think they can afford to have a slightly weaker lineup overall. This guy points out that the Reds were last in Park Adjusted Defensive Efficiency, but just 23rd in runs allowed. This could mean that much of the problem with runs allowed (outside of the HRs, which are a part of the park they play in), can be laid at the feet of the defense. The proposed lineup above (with Beltre) would see defensive improvements at 2B, SS, 3B, and RF, with hopefully some improvement in LF (EdE over Dunn) and improvement in Votto’s game at 1B. Heck, Ellis, BP, and Beltre alone would likely be about a 50 run improvement on defense over last season.
Offensively, you’ll probably still need some major growth from Bruce as well as strong seasons from EdE, Dickerson, Votto, and Beltre. These changes won’t guarantee any success. There’s a long way to go. But it will help get the Reds closer hopefully without breaking the bank doing it.
"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling
by Slyde on
Oct 14, 2008 11:31 AM EDT
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I agree
? will just lead to 96 Tears.
"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling
by Slyde on
Oct 14, 2008 11:12 AM EDT
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ohhh,
so THAT’s the name of that song.
...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield
by Cy Schourek on
Oct 14, 2008 1:33 PM EDT
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I've heard too much of that song
It used to be the first song on my iPod, so if I pressed play without selecting a playlist or specific song it would start up. After an update Apple changed it so the ‘numbers’ are at the bottom of the alphabet. Now the first song is A-Ha. You’re all fascinated, I’m sure.
by Red Menace on
Oct 14, 2008 4:23 PM EDT
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Turn on "Shuffle -> Songs" in Settings if you'd like to rectify that abhorrent sitchoo
"Yes, and it's so important in this sport that the athletes be able to train in the same location." -Cynthia Potter, NBC Synchronized Diving Analyst
by 3 Fast 3 Furious on
Oct 14, 2008 4:27 PM EDT
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Yeah
I usually use the shuffle songs option from the main menu, or a specific song or playlist.
by Red Menace on
Oct 14, 2008 6:03 PM EDT
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I also notice that you didn't mention the rotation at all...
which of these guys should we be shopping?
This place is like a sexy preschool.
by Gray on Oct 14, 2008 11:15 AM EDT 0 recs
I wouldn't shop any of the top 4
but I would listen to deals for Arroyo. Everybody else is available, as far as I’m concerned.
"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling
by Slyde on
Oct 14, 2008 11:16 AM EDT
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Do we worry about number 5 at all before spring training?
This place is like a sexy preschool.
by Gray on
Oct 14, 2008 11:17 AM EDT
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Personally, I like our depth at 5
Bailey, Owings, Ramirez, Thompson, Belisle. Someone’s gotta stick!
by Brendanukkah on
Oct 14, 2008 11:21 AM EDT
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Or make the all-star team, and lead the league in strikeouts for the first half of the season
Remember who won the 5th starter job last year out of ST…
"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands
by BK on
Oct 14, 2008 11:24 AM EDT
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I agree
I think the Reds are better off taking a chance on one of those guys than spending money to fill the last spot in the rotation.
"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling
by Slyde on
Oct 14, 2008 11:32 AM EDT
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Having lived in St. Louis for 5 years and watched Jocketty work
I have great confidence in his ability to put together a solid team for a reasonable price. That’s doesn’t sound sexy, but that really should be the Reds goal for 2009. You just don’t go from the outhouse to the penthouse in one year in baseball and the good GMs realize this.
While I’d like to see a major acquistion like Holliday or Ellis, it wouldn’t surprise me if the offseason consists of a bunch of what look like middle-of-the-road acquisitions. Every offseason the St. Louis fans screamed, “who the hell is/why did they sign John Mabry/Tony Womack/Mark Grudzilanek/David Eckstein/Steve Kline/Woody Williams/etc.!” and then the team went out and won 90 games.
The first thing the Reds have to do is plug the big holes where they kill themselves, (left-side infield, three catchers, no bench power) THEN work on getting to the next level. If they can contend in 2009 while doing it then great, but as mentioned, I’d hate to see them mortgage the future for an opportunity in 2009 that just isn’t there.
by bengalred on Oct 14, 2008 11:37 AM EDT 0 recs
Actually you do go from the outhouse to the penthouse in one year
The Rays just did it this year. 2007——— 66-96 2008-97-65
2005 Tigers…………..71-91 in 2006 they were 95-67 and went to the World Series
just recent history
by Reynard on
Oct 16, 2008 12:16 AM EDT
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Isn't Dusty completely opposed
to the idea of moving BP? I haven’t heard BP express his opinion on it, though.
This place is like a sexy preschool.
by Gray on Oct 14, 2008 11:59 AM EDT 0 recs
i remember BP saying
he likes 2B, but he’s willing to do whatever. that could just be good-teammate-lipservice crap, or he could be sincere. i would move him to SS whether he likes it or not.
i really like the idea of Beltre and Ellis coming aboard for next season. infield defense has been such a thorn for years, and those two guys could really make a difference even Marty can appreciate.
if we can sign Ellis, i would also see about trading BP to help fill our hole at SS or LF. his perceived value seems higher than his actual value right now, and it might be wise to take advantage of that.
by Charlie Scrabbles on
Oct 14, 2008 12:31 PM EDT
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I've heard that BP is cool with playing shortstop, but he wouldn't state it publicly
since the Reds already have a shortstop signed.
As for Baker, he may not want to move BP because he didn’t have anybody to play 2B at that top level. It’s a risk to take a very good defensive player and move him to another position if you aren’t replacing him with a similar skilled player. I mean, logically it’s not that big of a deal, but emotionally it’s a hard move to make. However, if the Reds signed a high quality defensive 2B, that attitude might change.
Then again, I just searched MLBTR and they linked to a Buster Olney article from last week that says the A’s are starting negotiations with Ellis. So, my heart may be broken before it even has a chance to flourish this off-season.
"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling
by Slyde on
Oct 14, 2008 1:08 PM EDT
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Does anyone actually think Jocketty
is smart enough not to see Gonzalez as the SS starter? I mean, we did sink a lot of money in his contract…
This place is like a sexy preschool.
by Gray on Oct 14, 2008 12:44 PM EDT 0 recs
Does anyone else think that Sea Bass might still actually be a viable starter?
I have no idea how his knee is coming, but assuming it’s healed by spring training, I’m certainly willing to give him first crack at being the starter.
by Brendanukkah on
Oct 14, 2008 12:53 PM EDT
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But if you plan on doing that...
then you probably don’t want to go for a big signing at 2B/SS before then.
This place is like a sexy preschool.
by Gray on
Oct 14, 2008 12:58 PM EDT
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I think that's a bigger risk than trying to fill the position and having too many options
If Gonzalez had been an All Star quality shortstop before the injury, then I’d say given him a shot. But he’s basically replacement level or a little above. I’d rather just make him a backup now.
"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling
by Slyde on
Oct 14, 2008 1:02 PM EDT
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his knee may crack first
"It will put a smile on your face to see a Chevy with a Soviet transmission"
by justin007000 on
Oct 15, 2008 11:20 AM EDT
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does anyone think
jocketty might resign dunn since the d’backs don’t seem to want him?
by Daedalus on Oct 14, 2008 3:02 PM EDT 0 recs
I don't think there's a chance in hell
Mainly because Dunn has to know there are less hostile work environments elsewhere.
"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."
by jch24 on
Oct 14, 2008 3:11 PM EDT
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Dunn would go back to playing football before signing with the Reds.
and I blame Marty.
by jacob brumfield on
Oct 14, 2008 3:14 PM EDT
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Some similar suggestions made by me some time ago, reiterated now in slyde's more coherent framework.
10 Things I’d like to see this off-season
by Mads on Oct 14, 2008 9:42 AM EDT in Off-season
I want to look at some things that the Reds had better do this off-season. Things that I think will move them towards being a more successful team next year, most are more or less out of my ass.
1. Get someone to work with Jay Bruce and Joey Votto on their defense. Both these guys will become very good defensively, but it will hapen more quickly if they get thecoaching that slyde proposes
2. Move Edwin Encarnacion.
I say trade for a 3B or trade him as part of a deal to bring a more significant bat into the lineup (likely to play LF). I don’t think he is part of the future, because ‘someone’ in the Red’s organization has had it out for him ever since he came up to the show.
3. I’d love to see Brandon Phillips at shortstop.
But Alex Gonzales will get all the time he needs to make it or fail at SS before any moves are made to bring in a 2bman.
4. Get a significant bat for LF or 3B.Left Fielder for 2009 – Matt Holliday – Walt wants to make a splash, this could be it. If Mark Ellis were signed, then maybe Sea Bass could move to 3b?
5. Dickerson/Stubbs ‘09
Platoon could happen…or maybe one of them gets traded in the ’blocjbuster’ that Walt will try to pull off.
The key this off-season is to not waste money on a CF. – Heer – Heer
6. Build a smart bench.
Jerry Hairston, Jeff Keppinger , Back up catcher, grizzled VP 1stbaseman and back-up outfielder
7. A catcher to split time with Ryan Hanigan.
Maybe it’s Wilkin Castillo, – doubtful. Toothache-esque player will be brought in off the dump heap.
8. Bullpen .
Jeremy Affeldt, Mike Lincoln,Francisco Cordero Bill Bray, Jared Burton and Josh Roenicke.
9. Don’t gut the system.
If the Reds are going to be competitive next year, deals will have to be made. They have a lot of depth, though very few stars, in the minors right now and some of that depth will need to be utilized to improve the big league squad. My concern is that the Reds might squander that depth to win now. A team like the Reds needs to utilize it’s cheap talent efficiently. If they are going to sign players off the free agent market or lock players up long-term, they need to be able to offset that cost with young players. Don’t clean that talent pool out just to sell a few more tickets this year. Work hard to maintain that balance for the future and the present. I don’t want just one winning season. I want a dynasty! – you’re already the Supremem Ruler!
10.0. Market the players.
The Reds have a ton of young talent – Bruce, Votto, Cueto, Volquez – and some guys moving into their prime – BP, EdE, Burton. I should see these guys plastered all over the city. Get this town excited about baseball again, so that when it all clicks together, there is already some momentum built up. Turn Cincinnati back into the baseball town it used to be. Not only will it help ticket sales, but it will turn the Reds back into a team that players want to play for. Winning has to be a part of that as well, but that’s going to come soon. Be ready for it. – Heer Heer!
DISCLAIMER: My responses are based on no statistical evidence or facts. Just on stuff that I’ve written at RR over the last 6 or so weeks.
Sgt. McCAin and Sarah The Impaler don't scare me none.
by Madville on Oct 14, 2008 3:43 PM EDT 0 recs
"I should see these guys plastered all over the city"

Yeah Slyde, this strategy has really worked out well for the Reds so far.
Tanzen!
by Verka Serduchka on Oct 14, 2008 5:18 PM EDT 2 recs
I've been plastered allover the city and its worked out pretty well for me...
That’s me on the left…I can’t remember the names of the other guys right now…Mousey Powell and Dinkus Rollins was on that team and Perry too..but Perry’s dead now…hell we’d get plastered every Monday and Thursaday night….Can’t recollect the other guy – Farney maybe
Sgt. McCAin and Sarah The Impaler don't scare me none.
by Madville on
Oct 14, 2008 5:29 PM EDT
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Ah, Mt. Adams.....
"Aio, quantitas magna frumentorum est."
by jch24 on
Oct 14, 2008 5:39 PM EDT
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Move Edwin to 2B
Move Edwin to 2B and Phillips to short, and trade for Beltre. I think that may be a brillent idea.
by Dave from Louisville on Oct 14, 2008 8:59 PM EDT 0 recs
Beltre is a career .834 OPS on the road.
Safeco has really killed him.
I’d love to get the guy.
by Nick Papageorgio on
Oct 14, 2008 9:53 PM EDT
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Wait, you think 2B is easier than 3B?
This place is like a sexy preschool.
by Gray on
Oct 15, 2008 11:59 AM EDT
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i think his logic is
that EdE’s major problem is throwing accuracy, so 2B, being closer to 1B, would be easier for him to handle. of course, that completely ignores all the other differences between the two positions.
by Charlie Scrabbles on
Oct 15, 2008 12:14 PM EDT
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Otherwise they're exactly the same...
right?
This place is like a sexy preschool.
by Gray on
Oct 15, 2008 1:38 PM EDT
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well, more or less
kinda like Sunnis and Shias.
by Charlie Scrabbles on
Oct 15, 2008 2:03 PM EDT
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I couldn't get a joke in here...
Justin, this calls for you
...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield
by Cy Schourek on
Oct 15, 2008 2:46 PM EDT
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Paging Mr. Sax.
Mr. Steve Sax.
We Are ... Marshall!
by Thundering Turtle on
Oct 15, 2008 5:25 PM EDT
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This is my point
It’s an idea. I think EE has the reflexes to play 2B and the shorter distance he has to throw the better.
Infielders move around the infield all the time, this is not a ridiculous idea. Look at Ian Stewart for the Rockies they put him at 2B because they had Atkins at 3B.
by Dave from Louisville on
Oct 15, 2008 11:18 PM EDT
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this is an interesting idea
because edwin’s problem is his throwing
by Daedalus on
Oct 18, 2008 7:16 PM EDT
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Watching the Rays,
I’m not so sure the Reds should splurge for an expensive bat just so they can finish, what, .500? I see a good staff 1 through 4, and a good bullpen, even if they lose Weathers and Affeldt. Votto and Bruce are cornerstones, BP will come into his own, and I think EdE will work out in LF better than 3B. I do agree that we need a 3B, but I"d prefer someone steady like Crede, assuming his bat holds up, to take the 6 or 7 slot in the lineup. I think Dickerson and Stubbs should split in CF, with Hairston as backup and ready to step in if one of them falters. And let the young guys come up together. Just look what it’s done for the Rays. I mean, the Reds have drafted very well and have the same potential, a yaer or two down the line, to jump into the playoffs. I don’t want to see any more big contracts shackling the Reds while they try to get there. As much as I liked Griffey, his big contract ate up a lot of money taht could have gone elsewhere.
by jamesp50014 on Oct 15, 2008 3:54 AM EDT 0 recs
What exactly does Joe Crede bring to the table?
He strikes me as mediocre and aging, like Joe Randa in ‘04 and The Bad Man Rich Aurilia in ’05 and ’06. I don’t think he brings anything to the table defensively, maybe with a more solid throwing arm but less range than Edwin, and offensively he hasn’t been as good as Edwin either. If the team is as solid as you say they are on the pitching end, why not go for a bat to take it over the top right now, especially considering all of the tradeable pitching depth in the minors? There’s more talent here right now than there has been this entire decade, why concede the ‘09 season before it even starts? I’m not advocating signing a huge deal for Manny or anything like that, but all of that money freed up by not picking up Griffey’s option or resigning Dunn needs to be used somewhere, and if the pitching holds up like you suggest it should (and I agree), why not use it on a bat?
"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands
by BK on
Oct 15, 2008 9:18 AM EDT
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my vote is Beltre
I think the Reds could get him relatively cheap while the Mariners just Freak the Hell Out. He could so some serious damage in GABP and infield defense would be fun.
...because there's already someone posing as Jacob Brumfield
by Cy Schourek on
Oct 15, 2008 2:47 PM EDT
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I also like that he's only on a one-year deal
Leaves room for a youngster to come play in 2010. My only concern is that he might cost said youngster to get him.
"You never want to give up a 7-0 lead, in your rival's ballpark, that would put them in first place. Never want to do that." - Ron Darling
by Slyde on
Oct 15, 2008 3:02 PM EDT
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you really think so?
im not sure it would take Frazier or Valaika to get Beltre. maybe Thompson, although i’d be reluctant to do that deal. or something like Maloney + another middling prospect? honestly, i think the M’s would be relieved just to drop payroll. the more and more i think about it, the more i want Beltre playing 3B for us next year and EdE in LF.
by Charlie Scrabbles on
Oct 15, 2008 3:20 PM EDT
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Juan Francisco and a B-/C+ pitcher maybe?
"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands
by BK on
Oct 15, 2008 3:41 PM EDT
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i think thats way too much
Francisco is a legit top prospect and Beltre is an above average 3B on a relatively expensive 1 year contract. it shouldnt take more than a pair of mid-tier prospects, IMO.
by Charlie Scrabbles on
Oct 15, 2008 4:08 PM EDT
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I think Maloney is an excellent piece to trade in a deal like this.
They could have some use for him at the back end of their rotation as well. Maybe throw in older prospect, like Janish or Szymanski. Drew Anderson? Cumberland?
"My wife ain't never ran and got me no pheasant." - Fistbands
by BK on
Oct 15, 2008 4:27 PM EDT
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this is what i was thinking
the Mariners will probably be content to clear the salary and will except (this one’s for you, MM) less than elite prospects to do it. at least, thats my hope. i would probably be willing to part with Thompson, but i’d rather send them Maloney + a Cumberland or Chris Heisey or Justin Turner or Brandon Waring or somebody of that ilk.
we dont have too many high-ceiling guys in the high minors but we have a ton of quality depth. i would rather use that depth to get the deal done.
by Charlie Scrabbles on
Oct 15, 2008 4:58 PM EDT
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I also like the Beltre idea
And while we’re pillaging the M’s, why not try to acquire Ibanez to play LF? That means moving EdE, but I wouldn’t be weeping exactly. Granted, Ibanez turns 37 next year, but he’s been remarkably consistent for 8 years now.
Youth wins games; veteran presence wins championships!




