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Community Projection: Edwin Encarnacion

Edwin Encarnacion has been something of a sore point for me the past three years. The Reds have jerked him around quite a bit, never seeming satisfied with his production, and never fully committing to him at third base. I think this year will finally put an end to all of that.

Everyone will remember that the Reds sent him down to AAA in 2007 following a slow start. In hindsight it's possible that the Reds did the right thing (he came back and played well the rest of the season), or maybe Encarnacion would have bounced back anyway, but regardless of whether the Reds should have sent him down he still gave us all a lot to look forward to in 2008. If the Reds have a shot at the playoffs this year, they'll need some of their younger players to play better than they ever have to date, and I think EdE is one of the guys we can most reasonably expect to improve.

Encarnacion hit .309/.360/.488 in the second half of 2007, and I don't think that kind of line is outside the realm of possibility for him in 2008. He's still only 25 years old, and while it's just a gut feeling, I think he's finally getting used to playing at the major league level.

I am going to project him at .315/.365/.485, with 21 home runs, 90 RBI, 12 stolen bases, and 152 games played. I'm fully willing to admit that it's an optimistic projection, but I've been a big Encarnacion fan since he first came up, and I've always thought he was underrated. Remember, this is a guy who was ALWAYS ranked behind Andy Marte, despite similar or better numbers. I won't complain too much about it, because Marte is a couple of years younger, it just always confused me that Encarnacion never seemed to generate any hype at all. It has certainly worked out though, and the Reds oughta be set at third base for the next few years.

I am also going to project that Encarnacion stays at third base for 2008. It simply doesn't make sense to move him to first base when the Reds already have Joey Votto and Adam Dunn (should Votto be traded) to play first. I realize that Dunn supposedly will never play first, but I'd definitely rather see him over there and out of left field than Encarnacion moving to first.

What do you guys think of Encarnacion for 2008?

Leave your projection for AVG/OBP/SLG / HR / RBI / SB / Games, and add commentary saying why you feel that way, and also toss in if you think Encarnacion will finish out the year at third.

0 recs | Comment 43 comments

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EdE needs to know that he can have a bad streak
now and then and NOT lose the confidence of the manager/club. This could be difficult with Dusty's rep of not being patient with younger or not fully developed talent. If Dusty gets behind EdE and lets him play AND challenges him as well I could see him projected like this:
BA .285 with 30 home runs, 95 RBI, 5 stolen bases, and 150 games played. After last season he's shown the ability to have this kind of year.I do not think that he'll hit for much higher of an average than 285 because he needs to be in a slot in the line up to break up the lefty brigade - he could be back at the 4 hole and be required to drive the ball and hit for more power.Besides we don't want him clogging up the bases with walks and singles. Plus I see continued strong and even more improved defense from Encarnacion as well. I look for a great year from EdE.  
"Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by Madville on Jan 16, 2008 11:41 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if i make less since then usual
it is the beers and klonapin

I am guessing he hits about .310 or so.  He steals about 10 bases, you know not a threat but enought to think about.  I think he puts up about 25 HR's, and gets about 95 RBI's.  I am also guessing he makes about 15 errors.  

I think he becomes a decent force in the lineup.  25 homeruns is great, because we know Adam Dunn will hit 40, and Griffey may hit about 30 if healthy, and Phillips will hit about 20 HR's.  I kinda of think he and PHillips will put up similar offensive numbers.

The Dusty path to the World Series!

by justin0070000 on Jan 17, 2008 12:09 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Here we go
.295/.360/.505 is where I am going.
www.redsminorleagues.com

by dougdirt on Jan 17, 2008 12:51 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

.267 9 hr 55 rbi
I'll play the pessimist for once.

by buckeye22fox on Jan 17, 2008 1:20 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

.268, 7HRs 60RBI 12 Errors
I think he will become a solid defender next year
"Touchdowns are the most over rated stat in football, first downs are what win games!"-ESPNs Skip Bayless on why Tony Romo is not a good QB

by Zach K on Jan 17, 2008 6:18 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Always the optomist Zach
If EdE plays 150 or more games he will hit more than  7 hrs. But we agree on his solid defense.

If Encarnacion develops into a strong and consistent force does this mean that he gets on the 'Zach' list of crummy players?

"Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by Madville on Jan 17, 2008 10:01 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fine 9 HRs
"Touchdowns are the most over rated stat in football, first downs are what win games!"-ESPNs Skip Bayless on why Tony Romo is not a good QB

by Zach K on Jan 18, 2008 8:05 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I hear 9 - anyone give me 11 ?
come on now 11 - hey buddy buddy who'll give me 11?
"Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by Madville on Jan 18, 2008 9:07 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

.290/.360/.485 21 HR 82 RBI 6 SB 140 G
i really like Eddy.  i always have.  but i dont think he is going to become the middle-of-the-order force we want him to be.  he will hit well and produce, but i dont see him becoming a premiere all-star right-handed bat.  but that's not a problem.  he's gonna do enough and i think this is the year management finally realizes that.
is it April yet?

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 17, 2008 8:09 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Reasons for optimism and concern
After being called up from Triple-A last year on May 22nd, he put up a .307/.370/.476 line.  He really turned it on starting on August 23rd in Atlanta.  He hit .358/.412/.634 over his last 34 games of the season.  The thing that is most promising about that last stretch is that his power stroke started to develop.  Prior to that, he had slugged just .375.  They may have had to move him to middle infielder or catcher with those types of slugging numbers.  The fact that he picked it up at the end of the season gives me reason to believe he can slug closer to .500, which is crucial for a corner infield spot.

My two concerns have to do with some dropping rates.  His walk rate dropped from 9.2% in 2006 to 7.2% in 2007.  If he can regain some patience at the plate, that will go a long way towards boosting his other numbers as well.  He doesn't need to be a walk machine like Dunn, but I start to get concerned if a player's walk rate drops into the 6s or lower, especially if they tend to strikeout on occasion.

My other concern is that his line drive rate also dropped last year to 18% (from 21%).  The small drop with EdE concerns me a bit more than with a typical player because I think he is more of a doubles hitter than a HR hitter.  I think his goal should be 40 doubles rather than 30 HR.  If he can hit 40 doubles in a season, then I think he is making the most of his talent (I think the same thing about Brandon Phillips).  In a park like GABP, swinging for doubles could still net you 20+ HR, and if EdE can manage 60 extra base hits while batting 4th or 5th, the Reds will be in good shape.

I've made this comparison multiple times, but I see EdE as very comparable to Tony Perez.  He may not have as much power as Perez (and I don't think EdE is a future hall of famer), but if you put some runners on base in front of him, he will knock in 100 runs every year.  I also hope this comparison is true because Tony Perez busted out in 1967 at the age of 25.  Hopefully, EdE can do the same.

I think Dusty Baker will be good for EdE.  Players generally like playing for Dusty, and I think EdE has enough experience to be past the supposed threat of Dusty not playing youngsters.  I look for him to put up good numbers:
.287/.351/.483 with 24 HR, 102 RBI, and 6 SB in 155 games.

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Jan 17, 2008 9:04 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Slyder speaks
I agree that EdE has the potential to become another Perez. And prior to 1970, when Perez was 28, no one really pegged him as a future HOFer either.

Anyway, that being said, I look for EdE to continue hitting like he did in the second half of 07. The key to me is that he at least looks like he has a clue playing 3rd base now. In April last year he didn't and it effected his whole game. I agree at this point it makes no sense to move him across the diamond, which I have advocated in the past, with Votto there.

I predict a break out year:

.305/.390/.490 with 22 HR, 115 RBI, and 3 SB in 150 games.

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on Jan 17, 2008 9:35 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

285/360/480 23 HR/ 88 RBI/11 SB/ 155 G
Agree with Madville - it'll be easier to forgive Dusty when he shreds an arm or two if he doesn't mess with Encarnacion.  

Also, if Encaracion has a good year they should think about a l/t deal buying out his arb and a couple of his FA years.  

by ken on Jan 17, 2008 9:11 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

EdE and DR Winter League Series Final
For the record, here is what EdE has been doing the last few weeks in the Winter League in the Dominican Republic:

Encarnación, Edwin       

9 games,    32 AB,    8 Hits,    3 doubles    1 HR,    4 RBI,    5 Runs,    0 SB     7 BB,     7 SO,    14 TB    .250 AVG,    438 SLG

http://www.aguiluchos.com/estadisticas.asp?a=1&b=57&c=2&d=&e=Ok

His team, the Eagles, just qualified for the winter league series final against the Licey Tigers.  The series (best of 9) starts tonight here in Santo Domingo.  Here are the projected starting line ups (http://www.listin.com.do/app/article.aspx?id=44579):

ÁGUILAS (EAGLES)
Chris Robertson CF
Rafael Furcal 2B
Miguel Tejada SS
Edwin Encarnación 3B
Mendy López 1B
Víctor Díaz RF
Luis Polonia DH
Alexis Gómez LF
Gustavo Molina C
Derek Leek P

LICEY
Emilio Bonifacio RF
Ronnie Belliard 2B
José Offerman 1B
Willy Aybar 3B
Armando Ríos LF
Napoleón Calzado DH
Erick Aybar SS
Félix Pie CF
Wil Nieves C
Randy Leek P

Tanzen!

by Verka Serduchka on Jan 17, 2008 10:49 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Emendation
Derek Randy Leek is all time pitcher and if Jose Offerman singles there'll be a ghost runner on first,

by Man Mountain on Jan 17, 2008 11:00 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

eek
is anybody concerned about EdE being on the same team as Furcal, Tejada, and Tony Bautista?  Stay away from the B-12 injection EdE!
I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Jan 17, 2008 11:10 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good to see
Luis Polonia still working.  Tejada and Encarnacion are okay, but Polonia is a true Aguila.

by ken on Jan 17, 2008 1:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Is there some kind of rule
that says you have to take a leek?

by Lakeman on Jan 17, 2008 2:53 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My uneducated guess is:
AB 483     HR 26     RBI 89  SB 8  AVG .288     OBP.370ish     SLG .551ish

I think that Eddie E will benefit from a manager who favors 'vets' and be allowed to ride out bad streaks, at least I hope. I think he could be a big RBI guy if given the chance.

The question I have about Eddie E concerns his fielding, how many errors will Eddie E make if he plays the whole season at 3rd base?

Would we be happy if he kept it in the mid 20's?

by HarvardRedsFan on Jan 17, 2008 12:07 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As I've said in the past
I'm happy if his HR outnumber his errors.

by jch24 on Jan 17, 2008 1:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the amount of errors he made
dropped significantly after his demotion.  Maybe he was pressing too much on both sides, and he relaxed.  His problem wasn't range or ability.  I think he may have been pressing too much on defense.  
The Dusty path to the World Series!

by justin0070000 on Jan 17, 2008 1:14 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree
I think he's outgrown his reputation as a bad defender.  I don't think he's a gold glover yet, but he's certainly not like Jose Offerman anymore.  His defense is perfectly fine, especially if his offensive production meets expectations.

by Brendanukkah on Jan 17, 2008 1:18 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

coach narron probably didn't help
it seemed everytime EdE made an error he spent time on the bench.  It is one thing to give a guy off who has been scuffling so he can regroup, it is another thing to bench a guy everytime he makes a mistake.  Ontop I think what really messed him up was when he was removed for not running out a pop up.  I don't know if why Narron liked to mess with EdE.  The best I can figure out is he was trying to break him to rebuild him, but I doubt Narron would have been smart enough to do that.

Remeber that time he pinch hit Wan casto for Hamilton?  

Remember that time he ran Majewski out there I think 18 times in 10 days, despite the fact that everytime Majewski entered a game they teed off on him?  

Remember how he tried to hide Burton in the bullpen so he could use Saarloos, Coffey, Stanton, and Majewski, but Burton was too much of a risk?

Remember that time he caused Bronson Arroyo to break down?

Oh well I guess he was a little better then Bob Boone, and a little less crazy then Ray Knight.

The Dusty path to the World Series!

by justin0070000 on Jan 17, 2008 1:33 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no way
no way someone would pinch hit wan casto for josh hamilton.  no way.  it's just to stupid.  even a toddler wouldn't do that...

by Daedalus on Jan 17, 2008 3:32 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I know what you mean:
No way anyone would trade Josh for an untried, unknown 'new guy' pitcher. no Way. it's just to stupid.  even a toddler wouldn't do that...
"Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by Madville on Jan 17, 2008 6:16 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

correction
EV isnt "untried".  he's pitched 80 innings in the Bigs.  and his ERA is 7.20.  so "untried" may not be appropriate, but perhaps "tried and struggled" is more accurate.
is it April yet?

by Charlie Scrabbles on Jan 17, 2008 8:17 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

re: those projecting 100 rbis from EdE
really? the only person to top 100 rbi's for the reds in the past seven years is dunn. if that happens to EdE, I will be flabbergasted, but pleasantly. for the record, i kind of hope we get an all-star year out of him and deal him for more arms, or a catcher, or to fill some other need, because i have a hunch one of todd frazier, juan francisco or brandon waring will stick at third and absolutely rake.

EdE: .294/.371/.492  21 HR, 89 RBIs, 9 SB, 154 G

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Jan 17, 2008 2:24 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

never
2004 he came close when he hit 96 home runs and walked 4 times with the bases loaded because he shuddered under the pressure of batting in the clutch.  That was the year that Dunn swung and missed every time he batted with men on base.  Also, 93 of his 96 home runs came in the first inning that year, with over half of them coming when the game was already out of reach.

Is that the year you are talking about boobs?

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Jan 17, 2008 2:38 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no
you'd know what i was talking about if you came out of your basement and looked at the sky.
Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Jan 17, 2008 3:01 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dude
Scary things happen outside.  I'm fine in my basement, thankyouverymuch.
I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Jan 17, 2008 3:08 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Here's why I did it
Last season Brandon Phillips came to bat with 461 runners on base and knocked in 94 (including himself 30 times).  That's a rate of 13.9% of the runners knocked in.

Edwin came to the plate with 372 runners on base and knocked in 76 (including himself 16 times).  That's a rate of 16.1% of the runners knocked in.

If the Reds put Edwin in a position to bat with more runners on base (*cough* cleanup *cough*), and if he plays 155 games, and if he adds 45 points to his slugging percentage through more homers and doubles (like I projected), I have little doubt that he can reach 100 RBI next season.

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Jan 17, 2008 2:30 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In case it's not clear
I think EdE is a better hitter than BP, and if you give him the same opportunities that BP got last year, he will get more RBI.  I didn't cleanly state that point, so I wanted to make sure that it was clear.
I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Jan 17, 2008 2:34 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

% ROB driven in
IIRC Edwin led the team in '06 by a healthy margin according to that year's Prospectus.  I'm not sure where or if that stat is published online.

I'm curious as to what kind of lineup Baker will try this year.  I wouldn't mind seeing a higher OBP guy like Encarnacion 2nd, followed by Dunn, Griffey, Phillips, Votto, Sea Bass and Ross.  Freel leads off if he's reasonably close to his '05-'06 levels.  

by ken on Jan 17, 2008 3:25 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I got it from the gamelogs on BBRef
at the top of each season's gamelogs they have the number of runners and number of RBI broken down (HRs have not been removed).
I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Jan 17, 2008 3:32 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

(*clutch* cleanup *clutch*)
"Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital." - Aaron Levenstein

by Madville on Jan 17, 2008 4:38 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

JUICED
If Edwin were a member of this team, we might be looking at 60 HR's!! ;)

http://mlbfleecefactor.com/2008/01/16/all-time-teams-the-all-juiced-team/

by ET90210 on Jan 18, 2008 12:35 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

here goes:
AVG/OBP/SLG / HR / RBI / SB / Games

AVG- .287
OBP- .355
SLG- .473
HR-   23
RBI-  89
SB-   19
Games- 148

Reds: WS Champs 2008... and every year after...

by crolfer on Jan 20, 2008 2:38 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Encarnacion Ready to become a Star
EEE reminds me quite a bit of Aramis Ramirez.  Look at their numbers as 24 year olds -- very similar.  Ramirez broke out at 25 - both offensively and defensively.  Encarnacion will do the same.  Look for .290/26/85.
MrMark

by MrMark on Jan 24, 2008 9:49 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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