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Around SBN: NFL Roundtable: Which Draft Pick Is Most Likely To Bust?

Game Thread: Game 133 vs. the Mets

TIME: 12:35 @ Great American Ball Park
                                       

METS PROBABLE:                  REDS PROBABLE:
John Maine (14-8, 3.57)          Tom Shearn (1-0, 4.76)

Little surprised to see Shearn continuing to get starts, although I suppose I don't know who else the Reds would be going with at this point. Now holding at a five game losing streak, would be nice to come away with at least one win against the Mets.

Go Reds!

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Go Tom
Still plenty of open spots for NFL Survivor on Yahoo. I'm not sure whether you have to be in by thursday's game or whether you can join by sunday.

group ID 21431
password rijo

by Red Menace on Sep 5, 2007 12:46 PM EDT reply actions  

I received an email this morning
that said if you don't pick by the first game, you're eliminated...so I'm betting that means you need to join post-haste.
"I'd walk through hell in a gasoline suit to play baseball" - Pete Rose

by Officer Dibble on Sep 5, 2007 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

JD
as you said, who else is there? I mean, we have Dumatrait and Belisle still getting trotted out every 5 days. And it would be an exceedingly short sighted move to put Cueto out there. We're staggering to the finish line.

by Jay @ Red Reporter on Sep 5, 2007 1:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Votto!!!
If Krivsky had a brain he would have called up Votto in April.  He'd have had like 550 homers by now......
Upstate New Yorker, life-long Reds fan.

by NYRed on Sep 5, 2007 1:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Votto, who's Votto, eh?
When are we going to see more Buck Coates?

And it's Marty's B-day. How about that for a titanic struggle?

My karma just ran over your dogma

by Lonesome George on Sep 5, 2007 1:12 PM EDT reply actions  

D'oh
Hamilton couldn't stop chugging away.  Out at third trying to stretch a triple with no outs.  Don't like to see that.
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 1:18 PM EDT reply actions  

CARDINAL UNWRITTEN RULE
Never make the first, or third, out at third base
Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on Sep 5, 2007 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jr. Doubles
Maine's not fooling anyone, for the most part.
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 1:19 PM EDT reply actions  

BP HBP, 4 pitch walk to Dunn
Bases loaded, 2 outs.  LLM up.
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 1:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Just looking at some splits
And the difference in strike one to Dunn as opposed to ball one on the first is ridiculous:
After 0-1 count: .209/.285/.389
After 1-0 count: .292/.470/.627

If you don't throw him strike one with the first pitch, you may find yourself in some bad shape.

I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

No runs scored
Hamilton trying for third really hurt there.
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

LLM down.
Hamilton has some learnin' to do.
Upstate New Yorker, life-long Reds fan.

by NYRed on Sep 5, 2007 1:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Interesting splits, Slyde....
Does Dunn ever swing at the first pitch?  I don't recall seeing him do that.
Upstate New Yorker, life-long Reds fan.

by NYRed on Sep 5, 2007 1:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Yes
He's swung at 28% of the first pitches this year.  When he puts the ball in play on the first pitch (or is hit by the first pitch) he puts up: .418/.431/.982.  But he's only put the ball in play on the first pitch 57 times out of 159 swings.  So, he's put himself in that 0-1 hole a few times too.
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

The EdE to Votto connection
might be a little scary given both players' reputation on defense.  I didn't see the play, but I wonder if Hatteberg would have picked it.
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 1:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Keith Hernandez
said it was a tough hop.

by pw on Sep 5, 2007 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hernandez
He didn't say, "Who's this chucker?"?
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dental plan!
Shearn gets Beltran.  Now for Conine to play nice with his former teammates.
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 1:32 PM EDT reply actions  

two minutes ago
Brantley was just saying that Shearn needs to throw more strikes.  And just now he said that "Shearn seems to have control of all of his pitches."  If he wasn't speaking with his easy, southern drawl, I'd be irritated.
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 1:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Double post!
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 1:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Double post!
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 1:38 PM EDT reply actions  

The Reds sure are getting runners on base today
I'd like to see more runs.
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 1:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Hamilton redeems himself
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 1:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Still not sure I like Gonzalez batting second
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 1:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Alex Gonzalez is not a great no 2
But neither is EDE. Gonzo is the better of the two,I'm cetain that Slyde will somehow back up this observatoion with some facts and figgers.
Is Dunn done?

by Madville on Sep 5, 2007 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never advocated EdE at #2
I'd rather see him batting 4th or 5th.  I like Dunn in 2 spot, actually.  I'd prefer the top two hitters be guys that can consistently get on base.  If not Dunn, then Hatteberg or Votto.
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 6, 2007 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

cy shearn
at least this isnt pittsburgh

by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 5, 2007 1:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Speaking of Alex...
Still not sure I think Gonzalez is worth what he's getting paid, but you make a good point.

Why not put Edwin in the 2-slot for a couple of weeks and see what happens when he bats in front of Grif? Naw, might look good.

My karma just ran over your dogma

by Lonesome George on Sep 5, 2007 1:56 PM EDT reply actions  

i dont understand
why we have any veterans playing today.  i guess you have to put on like you still care about this season, but lets be realistic.  let some kids play!  i wanna see ryan hanigan!
at least this isnt pittsburgh

by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 5, 2007 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

You may be the first person
not named "Hanigan" to ever say that.
"I'd walk through hell in a gasoline suit to play baseball" - Pete Rose

by Officer Dibble on Sep 5, 2007 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hit and run with Valentin and Dunn
Sweet.  C'mon EdE!
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 2:01 PM EDT reply actions  

EdE
and the hits keep coming!
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 2:03 PM EDT reply actions  

atta boy eddie
i dont what it is about this guy, but i reaaaaaaaally want him to succeed.
at least this isnt pittsburgh

by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 5, 2007 2:04 PM EDT reply actions  

I just want him to get a fair shake
And by fair shake I mean I don't want him to be singled out for mistakes other players make and get away with.

I think the success will take care of itself.

I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

reds.com says votto hit the HR
in his second big league at bat.  i thought this was his first call up?  am i mistaken?
at least this isnt pittsburgh

by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 5, 2007 2:07 PM EDT reply actions  

He struck out
as a pinch hitter last night.
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

D'oh
Hamilton may be injured again.
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 2:18 PM EDT reply actions  

what happened?
to Hamilton?  
Hopper PH for him..
Any update?

by jambolyajones on Sep 5, 2007 2:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Nope
tHom said that Hamilton looks like he may have strained something going after a line drive in the field.  They had no update.
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mark Sheldon's not very good at his job.
An excerpt from his Reds.com article today:

Votto, the Reds' top position prospect,

Maybe the fact that the Reds have the top prospect in all of baseball (and his name isn't Joey Votto) just slipped his mind, but that's a pretty pathetic error.

by Geki on Sep 5, 2007 2:29 PM EDT reply actions  

any chance...
Bruce never sees a big-league call-up with the Reds?

I mean the only way we may get another top-of-the-rotation starter is via trade.

And there have been some grumblings about Bruce, right? So he could be primed for off-season trade bait.

by jambolyajones on Sep 5, 2007 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Grumblings about Bruce?
I think you are thinking of Votto.  There is no way they trade Bruce.
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

If they trade Bruce
then we might as well just blow up GABP, because this organization would be hopeless.

by Geki on Sep 5, 2007 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

woo hoo EdE
Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on Sep 5, 2007 2:45 PM EDT reply actions  

I really like EdE
When he's lining doubles all over the field, it's one of my favorite things.  By the way, since he came back from Triple-A: .306/.366/.454 over 357 plate appearances.  That first month just killed his numbers.
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 2:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Whoah
I just realized that Votto is 3 for 3 with a homer and a walk.  I wish he were right handed.
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 2:51 PM EDT reply actions  

trade Hberg
in the off season for a starter. Play the kid every day to he proves he can't hit lefties.
Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on Sep 5, 2007 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why is Burton pitching?
It's 7-0.  This makes no sense.  Let's see some of the other guys that need work.
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 2:52 PM EDT reply actions  

McFly
have you seen them pitch?
Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on Sep 5, 2007 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's 7-0
and Burton pitched last night.  Save him for when the game gets close.  It's not like he needs the work.
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Eddie G in the 9th?
There should be a large enough lead.

by justin0070000 on Sep 5, 2007 2:53 PM EDT reply actions  

hey slyde
on Gameday... what is the difference between release speed and result speed (other than about 9 mph)
Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on Sep 5, 2007 2:57 PM EDT reply actions  

I think
One is the speed when it leaves the pitcher's hand and the other is when it crosses the plate.
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

why does pete always DR for dunn
but never griffey?  is it just bias?  i can imagine dunn's D is better than griffey without looking it up.
at least this isnt pittsburgh

by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 5, 2007 2:59 PM EDT reply actions  

He DR'd Griffey once.
Once.
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nope
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2976559
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

wow
i dont know if ive ever seen anyone be that charming and that smug at the same time...
at least this isnt pittsburgh

by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 5, 2007 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stanton? STANTON?
Dammit!  I wanted the Majic man.  He's my favorite mistake.
Upstate New Yorker, life-long Reds fan.

by NYRed on Sep 5, 2007 3:09 PM EDT reply actions  

I found this funny
tHom was just talking about Bill "Seg" Dennison and emphasized that he calls him "Siggy," specifically noting that "Pete Rose and I call him 'Siggy', everyone else calls him 'Seg'."  It was just silly how desperate he was trying to sound cool.  

I guess there really isn't a lot to talk about in a blowout.  They are covering everything but the game at this point.

I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 3:14 PM EDT reply actions  

I am collecting for a family fare
bus ticket back to Arizona.
Is Dunn done?

by Madville on Sep 5, 2007 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Christ in a 'Copter
The one game i don't even listen to and all kinds of good stuff is happening. Go Reds
Has the game started yet?

by Madville on Sep 5, 2007 3:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Winner winner chicken dinner!
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 3:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Tom Shearn
I hope he is enjoying this.  He deserves his day in the sun.  This may be the only time he see's the light of the Big League's, but he is still doing better then most.

by justin0070000 on Sep 5, 2007 3:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Shearn 'nuff
He does okay.  He had a problem with the Cardinals in St. Louis last weekend, but he hasn't been as bad as a few other starters I could name. (D..D..Dumatrait?)
I hope he gets enough days for his pension.  The Reds could do that much for him.
My karma just ran over your dogma

by Lonesome George on Sep 5, 2007 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does anyone have confirmation
if Tom Shearn will hit the magic number of games to guarantee his pension this season?
"I'd walk through hell in a gasoline suit to play baseball" - Pete Rose

by Officer Dibble on Sep 5, 2007 3:41 PM EDT reply actions  

I think
someone confirmed that he will get 36 days on the roster this year, leaving him about a week short.
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 5, 2007 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Excellent,"
said Bob Castellini with fingers pressed together.
Quick! Somebody make a Cincinnati loves Ken Griffey Jr. too! video

by TheC on Sep 5, 2007 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

So this Votto kid...
Do you think he has anything going for him? Really?
The season is over, so the Krivinator can't send him back down. Do they hide him for the rest of September?
My karma just ran over your dogma

by Lonesome George on Sep 5, 2007 4:22 PM EDT reply actions  

From Trent
Mackanin: "First of all, I hope Joey Votto doesn't think it's going to be that easy. Well maybe it is going to be that easy, that would be nice."

Mackanin on Hamilton: "Josh has a little twinge in his hamstring, you saw when he caught that ball in centerfield. He caught it and hiccuped a little bit. I wanted to take precautions, give him today and take tomorrow off. Hopefully he'll feel a lot better on Friday."

Nice game.  How cool for Shearn, eh?

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Sep 5, 2007 5:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Alright - now for the final run to October
Uh...whaddaya mean we got no pitchin'............
Don't Care onward to Victory - Go Reds
Is Dunn done?

by Madville on Sep 5, 2007 6:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Some great quotes
From Votto (via Redleg Nation):
"I can't help but keep this big smile on my face," said Votto. "I was told two days before that I was going to come up by Louisville manager Rick Sweet and that I wouldn't play the next day in Louisville, a day off. I couldn't sleep the night before the last game in Louisville, stayed up until almost 5 in the morning, trying to distract myself by watching 'Office' reruns."

Votto roomed with Jay Bruce at the Louisville Marriott (Bruce was not promoted) and Votto said Bruce kept saying, "You're going to the big leagues, you're going to the big leagues."

From Hatteberg (same article):

"Damn, I was chasing some big numbers, too -- like 110 home runs." -- Scott Hatteberg, who hit his 100th career homer this year, when told his playing time would be curtailed to make room for Joey Votto.

I love that quote about Bruce.  The kids are excited.  That's great to see.  And I sure wish there was a logical reason to keep Hatteberg.  There's not much that I don't like about that guy.

I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 6, 2007 8:56 AM EDT reply actions  

Definitely
He seems like pretty good guy. Maybe we could convert him back to catcher?
Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Sep 6, 2007 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

hatcher to manager
hatteberg hitting coach/first base coach/infield instrcutor/ambassador to kuwait
at least this isnt pittsburgh

by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 6, 2007 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

I want Hatteberg to be
the Ambassador of Kwan
I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Sep 6, 2007 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

This is Great...
It is about time.  Votto has shown progression at every stop in the minors, and he's earned some ABs at the big league level.  It's even more satisfying to see him excel.  It makes it that much easier for those who want to play Cantu or resuscitate Jeff Conine.

by tonywf on Sep 6, 2007 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

callups
I thought the reason they did not announce who was coming up until monday to "let the players know."  Then how the hell did Votto know on Sunday??????????????????????  Did Krivsky lie to us AGAIN?????????????  This joker thinks the fans are dumb, just like when he said on 700wlw that there were other factors that we did not know of when Coutter got sent down over Coffey.  To me, the reason must have been that Coffey sucks his Dick everyday.

by Tbone redleg on Sep 6, 2007 11:10 AM EDT reply actions  

everyday?
i doubt a man of his impotence could even get it up everyday.
at least this isnt pittsburgh

by Charlie Scrabbles on Sep 6, 2007 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

That may be true But...
it probably doesn't stop 'the impotent one' from having his 'Coffee' every morning.
Is Dunn done?

by Madville on Sep 6, 2007 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

catching buddy?
*shudder*
Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Sep 6, 2007 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't have a problem with gay people.
I have a problem with the mental image of Wayne and Todd.
Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Sep 6, 2007 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

The female equivalent of
"I don't have a problem with homosexuality, as long as both chicks are hot."

by Brendanukkah on Sep 6, 2007 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wait
Does Wayne have 3 catchers on his staff? Cuz that's pretty hot.
"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Sep 6, 2007 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Perhaps
one of them swings both ways?
"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Sep 7, 2007 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hey MM...
..last night on Letterman I caught about the last twelve seconds of a swell song by some of your inDixie rockin' brethren, the Manchester Orchestra.  Thoughts? ...Anyone?

Also, I had no idea but I just discovered that over the past six or seven years, Frank Black has been putting out like three records for every one that Prince does.  Anybody care to help me seperate the Catholics' wheat from their chaff?

by Fat Vegas Alan on Sep 7, 2007 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Frank Black
I don't really have an opinion on the Catholics stuff. I own and generally like his two albums before the Catholics, Teenager of the Year and Cult of Ray. The latter is basically the first Catholics album, but not credited. I'll bet Brendan has a good opinion on the albums from the last decade. Sorry.

I like the Manchester Orchestra alright. Good pop rock. If you're looking for something similar, but grittier, go here. (I feel like I should be these dudes' press agent at this point.)

"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Sep 7, 2007 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

On the spot
Uh... I've actually not listened to most of Frank Black's solo stuff.  Teenager of the Year is well worth looking into.  Honeycomb was meant to be very Nashville-y, so if that's what you're looking for I would go for that album.  It's not with the Catholics, though.  He just had a new album come out, where he's taken up the Black Francis moniker again.  It received good, but not great reviews.

As far as ex-Pixies go, I followed Kim Deal the closest.  Being a Daytonian, I'm shameless shill for bands from the Gem City, but you've probably already picked up any and all Breeders stuff you need.  The Amps were good too, and I like their cover of "Just Like a Briar" (originally done by guitarist Nate Farley's old band, the Tasties).  You might be able to download that one, or it's also a B-Side of the "Tipp City" single.

I'm not sure if Joey Santiago has done any solo stuff, but I always thought he was an underappreciated guitarist.  It makes me like the show "Undeclared" even more, because he did the incidental music for it.

Another band that might be worth checking out is the Rosebuds.  They hail from Raleigh, so Man Mountain or Gray might know more about them.  I saw them the other night opening for the National, and they had a very enjoyable sound.  It kind of veered from country-influenced alternapop to having distinct New Order influences.  I checked out some of their songs on MySpace, and they seem to be a lot more powerful live than recorded.

That was really rambling, but hopefully you'll get something out of it.

by Brendanukkah on Sep 7, 2007 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yo.
I have Teenager.  I like it.  In fact, listening to it the other day is what got me checking into Frank's discography.

Again and again I've heard good things about the Amps.  One of these days I should get around to checkin' em out.

Thanks.

Hey, what was the name of that 90's(?) Swedish(?) synth-pop band with a female singer that had a hit song with the chorus: "Love me, love me, say that you love me...Fool me, fool me,go on and fool me"?

by Fat Vegas Alan on Sep 7, 2007 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Lovefool" by the Cardigans
One of the funniest parts of Hot Fuzz was when the local theater troupe does an homage to Shakespeare, by doing the Baz Luhrmann version of Romeo and Juliet on-stage, then doing a chorusline version of that song for the finale.

Fun fact about the Cardigans: they started out as a heavy metal band, then got pigeonholed after "Lovefool" became a hit.  Most of the band members hated that song.  I also remember digging "My Favourite Game" by them when it came out a couple years later.

by Brendanukkah on Sep 7, 2007 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ahh, yes yes.
The Cardigans.

My mind and my mind's mouth kept trying "C_" and "Cr_" and I knew it wasn't "the Cranberries" but I knew that the name of the Lovefool band was something else Martha Stewart-esque.

Thanks.

Again.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Sep 7, 2007 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

CCR is good too
A fun game to play in a bar is start a discussion over who the greatest American band is/was.  All the no-brainer bands (Beatles, Stones, Zeppelin, Maiden) are all British, and all the no-brainer Americans were predominantly solo artists (Dylan, Elvis, Prince).

Anyway, I usually find myself defending Creedence and placing them in the bottom of my Top 5.

by Brendanukkah on Sep 7, 2007 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hear ya.
Another fun game to play in a bar is "Keep on Chooglin'."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Sep 7, 2007 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's also peculiar that..
..many of the "great" American bands were often responsible for one great album (and perhaps a great year or two of live shows) and then their stars faded or quickly imploded.  (Examples: Nirvana's Nevermind, Guns n' Roses Appetite.., X's Los Angeles, Run DMC's Raising Hell, A Tribe Called Quest's Low End Theory)

If you start thinking of American bands with great "staying power" you can put together a decent (and curious) but rather bland list. Decent.  And anyway, "decent" ain't "great" and the name of this bar game is "The Greatest American Bands" and not "The Most Decent American Bands."

Check out these "contenders":

  • Van Halen
  • The Grateful Dead
  • Pearl Jam
  • REM
  • Aerosmith
  • Fleetwood Mac
  • Metallica
  • The Doors
  • The Eagles
  • Bon Jovi
  • The Ramones
Meh.

My five greatest:

The Supremes and the Beach Boys and the Pixies and Lynyrd Skynyrd and the Allman Brothers and the Temptations and Credence Clearwater Revival and Talking Heads and Public Enemy and the Mamas and the Papas.

And Nirvana.

And Guns n Roses.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Sep 7, 2007 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I had this discussion last year
I think the Beach Boys has to be it because the other ones I would throw into the mix--Velvet Underground, MC5, the Stooges--were either short-lived or not popular enough. CCR is like Jimi Hendrix and Bob Marley for me--I just can't hear it anymore. Their songs just don't even register with me, like I'm listening to white noise or something. Sad.

I really don't like any of the bands on your contenders list besides Van Halen, but I agree they probably need to be there.

Re: Rosebuds. I've never really liked them. They're omnipresent on local compilations and festivals, but I don't know anyone who is actually a fan of theirs. I've never seen them live, though. Speaking of, I have an opportunity to see the National in the Thrill tonight, but I'm not sure I'm going to go. Must I?

"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Sep 7, 2007 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also
definitely pick up the Amp's Tracer if you can find it. One of the great lost albums of the late 90s. The track Breaking the Split Screen Barrier is rockatocious.
"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Sep 7, 2007 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

You mean
Pacer?  Or is this another one of those things that I'm not cool enough to know about?

by Brendanukkah on Sep 7, 2007 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

You guys are forgetting the best...
The Grateful Dead
What'cha gonna do, Red Reporters, when Brennamania runs wild on you?

by chandrathan on Sep 7, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jambands are never the greatest band
Never.

The Allman Brothers are the only ones who might enter the discussion.

by Brendanukkah on Sep 7, 2007 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

allahu akbar
"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Sep 7, 2007 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Before I say this
All thanks to Daedalus for the tickets.  I had a great time, the National put on a good show, and their side project opening band (Doveman) is good too.

They're not a "need to see" band.  

Maybe it's just because I wasn't super familiar with their catalogue, but they play the type of music that can be recreated in a live setting by turning your stereo up a little louder.  They're talented, they play well, but nothing about the show grabbed me or left me feeling moved.  It was fun to shout Cincinnati things at the stage though.  They came out to some scattered "Who deys," and when I yelled "Skyline!" from the balcony, the singer looked up at us and said, "Thanks."  If you can see them for free (or I guess for cheap), you won't regret it, but I don't think you'd regret missing them either.  Daedalus might disagree.

Picking what the best band is typically hinges on how much you want to weigh longevity, commercial success, influence, and overall artistic merit.  I usually end up picking R.E.M. as my top choice.  Sonic Youth I think deserves more of a look than they usually get, but as I say that I have to confess that I've never listened to a ton of their stuff.  You can get into niggling side arguments as to whether to allow the Velvet Underground because John Cale is Welsh.

by Brendanukkah on Sep 7, 2007 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was my guess about the National
I loved the self-titled album from 5 or 6 years ago. The more I listen to the latest album, the more it leaves me kind of cold. At this point, I can usually guess pretty closely what kind of live performance a band will give. I expect something consumate, considered, and a little flat. On the flipside, I often go to see stuff live that I never listen to on record, especially bluegrass and country.

I know Ken said the National were terrific live a few months ago. My biggest problem is that the girl who has the ticket is a person I try to avoid at all costs when there's alcohol present.

I really think Sonic Youth needs to be in the discussion, but I thought I might get a giant fish upside my pith helmet. They've had an affect on music the last 25 years that's hard to account for.

And, yes, I meant Pacer. I suppose I was still marvelling at Schick saying "Fuck it, let's go six"

"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Sep 7, 2007 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sonic Youth
definitely needs to be in the discussion.  I thought they weren't going to make it this millenium after NYC Ghosts, but they've followed up with three very strong albums, though they fall short of the glorious Daydream Nation / Goo peak.  Their late run strengthens my Sonic Youth > R.E.M. argument that greatly annoys my wife.

I did like the National live, but terrific is probably overstating it.  First time I saw them was in very small venue and they rawked it out. Maybe five years ago.  Agree with you about their debut.  

My biggest problem is that the girl who has the ticket is a person I try to avoid at all costs when there's alcohol present.  MM - do you really need to drink to have a good time?  Haha.

by ken on Sep 7, 2007 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes
"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Sep 7, 2007 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

You would think Kiss should be on there
The Top 5 USA bands
  1. Aerosmith
  2. Metallica
  3. The Eagles
  4. Lynyrd Skynyrd
  5. The Doors
My Top 5 would be
  1. Van Halen
  2. Metallica
  3. Guns n' Roses
  4. Stone Temple Pilots
  5. Pantera
Killer Tucans all the way!!!

by Zach K on Sep 8, 2007 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought about KISS.
But the thing about KISS is that if you don't own a KISS album, can you name three KISS songs?
  • Rock and Roll All Night
  • Beth
  • ummm... that one where Gene Simmons spits blood and the eight kickass Roman candles shoot off behind him?

by Fat Vegas Alan on Sep 8, 2007 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

God Gave Rock'n'Roll To You
The tune that took us out of Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey.
"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Sep 8, 2007 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

You got out?
You're one of the lucky ones.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Sep 8, 2007 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also...
..now that I think about it, my favorite band has been cranking out some good if not great if not singularly fantastic songs and albums for over ten years so it's time to give them one of the eleven or twelve spots in my Five Greatest American Bands.

If you're keeping score at home, and you say that someone has to go, well...

They ain't too proud to beg but.. Sorry fellas.

by Fat Vegas Alan on Sep 8, 2007 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree
I was thinking about that yesterday. In 10 years time Wilco will have to be in the conversation, joined, I think, by the Flaming Lips.

I would also put up a futile argument for Pavement and a myopic one for Guided by Voices.

"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Sep 8, 2007 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

What?
Wilco? They are a solid band don't get me wrong, but they started that hold trend that anyone can make a rock song. That is why I hate bands like them, Third Eye Blind and Weezer. I don't hate simple music but...

WAIT...How did I forget...shouldn't the RHCPs be way up there on the list!

24 years of great music...well 16 years when everyone loved them

Killer Tucans all the way!!!

by Zach K on Sep 8, 2007 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why can't anyone "make a rock song"?
I must have missed the hold trend where you had to apply with the local Better Bizkit Bureau to get a permit.
"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Sep 8, 2007 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's why "Louie Louie" by the Kingsmen
gets my vote as most important rock song ever.  Because it did show that anyone can make a rock song.  And the rock universe is better because of it.  It's the epitome of a garage-style recording, setting up lo-fi, and to an extent, punk.  It said that production, and even lyrics didn't really matter.  You could make a great, rocking song on noise and attitude.

by Brendanukkah on Sep 8, 2007 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

No I was misunderstood
"Louie, Louie" was original for the time and added a flavor to pop music

Ever since the early 90s there has been no change in music, we have bands going back to the "Louie, Louie" or the 60s pop sound or the so called "emo" sound which is boy bands with guitars.. As a musician and a fan of music I find it awful.

Now if you are a fan of "punk"{I just know it as rock bands that had no talent but tried hard to make an image for themselves}, you don't mind the lack of new ideas in music.

Killer Tucans all the way!!!

by Zach K on Sep 8, 2007 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

i love how people make comments about punk
and how it's not 'musical' like it's new or anyone is going to care.

Whatevs dude. I listen to Rancid because I enjoy it, and that doesn't make me less of a person.

And real emo sound isn't boy bands with guitars. I don't dig it really, but check out sunny day real estate or something like that.

Why are people so surprised about music not changing quickly? Look at it historically.

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Sep 9, 2007 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

ha!
Try Dr.Love, Hotter than Hell, Crazy Nights, Lick it up, Love Gun and ofcouse lets put the x in sex...

Kiss and Motley Crue are my guilty pleasure bands

Killer Tucans all the way!!!

by Zach K on Sep 8, 2007 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

"vote to joy"
The secret to Tom Shearn's success?

"The Romans"

"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Sep 7, 2007 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

hopper blessed, hopper blest!!
"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Sep 7, 2007 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

O, Toy Jove!!
how's that for an apostrophe?
"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Sep 7, 2007 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

is a toy jove
sort of like a pocket venus?
Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Sep 7, 2007 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

"you got me interested, Apollo"
You got me interested, Roc
"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Sep 7, 2007 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

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