Would you trade Hamilton

by The Crushinator on Sep 30, 2007 9:59 PM EDT Comment 46 comments

I was watching the tv broadcast a couple of days ago and they were discussing a hamilton trade. Obviously this is most likely just an inflamatory statement to spur discussion, and origionally dismissed it as such. But now a couple of days later i think of our current dirth of outfielders, Dunn is coming back and can't be traded Hopper hasn't shown any inclination of slowing down, and we are in dire need of a leadoff hitter. Griffey is Griffey PLUS hes expensive and injury prone; ie not great trade bait(i think thats how you use a semi-colon.) Theres Hamilton whos played excelent but had a frightening amount of injuries this season, and theres Bruce waiting in the wings. Now I like Hamilton as a player and I like watching him on the field, but you and i both know we NEED pitching to compete, so, would you trade Hamilton if the arms in return were right?

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Dearth....

That word. I do not think that it means what you think it means.

Hamilton is not a guy I would look to deal. He's under team control for the next 5 years; two at league minimum, and 3 at arbitration rates. He's extremely valuable for a small market team like the Reds because he gives you excellent production extremely cheaply, and can't bail for more money until after 2012.

Essentially, unless you would give me a simlarly talented pitcher in a similar contract situation, I'd pass. Hamels, Cain, Verlander, Carmona....somebody like that.

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on Sep 30, 2007 10:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I thought he was referring to

The big tall guy from Star Wars in the black armor who speaks like James Earl Jones.

If Krivsky doesn't exercise Adam Dunn's 2008 option, I'm a Mets fan until they fire him.

by Paul Householder on Oct 1, 2007 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're BobbaFan aren't you?

by Brendanukkah on Oct 1, 2007 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nope.

I generally don't talk to myself, unless it's Mini Michael.

If Krivsky doesn't exercise Adam Dunn's 2008 option, I'm a Mets fan until they fire him.

by Paul Householder on Oct 3, 2007 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes,

but they have to be sure fire, studs. I want young pitching. I want Phil Hughes, Hormer Bailey level starters. I wouldn't trade him for a Matt Maloney level prospect. But, if there is an overwhelming offer, I would have to take it. Hamilton is probably injury prone, plus, I hate to say it, he could go back to drugs tomorow. I am not saying he will, but that is always going to be a possiblity. I think the true test of Hamilton will be, if he stays clean through another off season. He has money now, somthing he didn't have when he went clean a year ago. Plus he won't have Daddy Narron, and 24 team mates, and other coaches, and what not as support. I am not trying to be a dick, but it is just a worry I have about him. We don't know where he will be in 5 years. He could be working on a hall of fame career, or he could fall of the wagon again.

by justin0070000 on Sep 30, 2007 10:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

To Clarify

I am not saying I want to trade Hobbs. but if I am a GM, and I am offered an overwhelming deal i will do it. You know, like I would trade Bray and Majewski for a couple of all-star impact everyday players.

by justin0070000 on Oct 1, 2007 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nope

I want our starting 3 outfielders to be Dunn, Hamilton & Bruce. Let Jr get a chance for a ring with an AL contender as a DH ... he isnt going to get that chance here during the rest of his career. Take what you can get for him and swallow some salary if need be.

by Ron41 on Sep 30, 2007 10:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I have heard no compelling reason

to trade Hobbs. His upside is exceptional - injuries included. If you've seen him play in person then you know that he has 'it' - that something special that not every athlete has. It is also called superior and balanced talent. No way would I trade him. Jr, yes, Gonzo, yes,Freel, yes. It would take a lot but I'd even consider EdE but not Josh Hamilton,

How long 'til Spring Training?

by Madville on Sep 30, 2007 11:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

semicolons and i.e.

Griffey is Griffey PLUS hes expensive and injury prone; ie not great trade bait(i think thats how you use a semi-colon.)

I think the problem is a misuse of i.e., the abbreviation of the Latin id est, which means that is, that is to say, or in other words. I'm fairly certain most style manuals say it should be used parenthetically within the running text of a sentence (i.e., inside parentheses).

One use of the semicolon is to join independent clauses without the use of a coordinating conjunction, but "not great trade bait" lacks both a subject and a predicate.

So I would edit it as so:

Griffey is Griffey, plus he's expensive and injury prone (i.e., not great trade bait).

Or if you really wanted to break out the ol' semicolon:

Griffey is Griffey, plus he's expensive and injury prone; he's not great trade bait.

The semicolon has fallen out of favor for a variety of reasons, but it's use is a matter of taste. Some writers become addicted to it (Virginia Woolf) while others strive to avoid it (George Orwell). Man Mountain, do you have any thoughts?

by Red Menace on Oct 1, 2007 12:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

possessive pronoun

I knew I couldn't get through a grammar correction without making a mistake of my own and opening myself up to a classic internet comeback, but the error I made is particularly embarrassing.

by Red Menace on Oct 1, 2007 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you're on it

Creative writers are all over the map on semicolons. While poets such as Donne and Milton used punctuation very carefully in keeping with their complicated systems of metaphor and argument, the romantic poets used them as freely as they did opium. Faulkner thought that you should allow yourself the luxury of only two semicolons per novel. It has the opportunity to be a very impactful if used sparingly. When it comes to style, I'm all for whatever Orwell recommends. IMAO he was one of the two masters prose stylists in early 20th century lit. Woolf in her imaginative prose has different purposes than Orwell, but her criticism is poorer than Orwell's.

I would say that the semicolon in contemporary academic writing has started to morph into a punctuational "i.e." I'm not sure if that's just part of the greater tectonic shift of all written language or because fewer and fewer writers (and editors) really give a shit. As I've mentioned before, there is a fairly well- established theory that grammar is essentially a tool used to "prop up the inequalities inherent in late stage capitalism" and the "miltary-industrial complex."

I don't about the rest of you but I find that I use the semicolon A LOT when I post here. Again, I think it has something to do with demands of the medium.

"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Oct 1, 2007 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

grammar is important.

just look at the point in the post JD had to write concerning grammar - some of these diaries are not understandable because people don't know how to use it. miscommunication is often the result of misplaced punctuation or bizarre word order.

obviously there are some grammatical excesses in the english language - as there are in every language - but for the most part, english grammar is pretty simple and has a purpose. people like to use excesses like semicolons because they think it makes them seem smarter, but they are usually used incorrectly. i finally had to tell my staff to stop using them altogether because they always used them improperly, which just made their sentences confusing.

speaking of work, it is quite nice to be unemployed. i feel such a freedom!

I love the Reds no matter what!

by Daedalus on Oct 1, 2007 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

semi-colons

i think Vonnegut (may God rest his glorious soul) had it right when he said the semi-colon is basically a puncuational hermaphrodite with no distinguishable function. that said; it does make for hilarious parlor/blog fare.

at least this isnt pittsburgh

by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 3, 2007 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

vonnegut can shampoo my crotch

"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Oct 4, 2007 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you would let a dude

shampoo your crotch? moreover, you shampoo your crotch at all?? metrosexual much?

at least this isnt pittsburgh

by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 4, 2007 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

only a dead dude

it's hotter that way

"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Oct 4, 2007 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

is that called a deathrosexual?

at least this isnt pittsburgh

by Charlie Scrabbles on Oct 4, 2007 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

That kind of treatment is called the "Billy Pil-groom."

...really only works when Vonnegut's involved. His hair is kind of like a loofa.

by Brendanukkah on Oct 4, 2007 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like semicolons

I use them a lot. There's nothing to replace them, IMO. They're a way to link two independent clauses that need to be linked.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 4, 2007 7:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

thanks for getting this

i was busy with interstate moving... ;)

I love the Reds no matter what!

by Daedalus on Oct 1, 2007 8:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

See.. that's all I thought the semi-colon was for

Making winking faces

;)

You mean you can do more with them?! Amazing.

Actually, my Office grammar police keeps wanting me to put in a semi-colon before the word however, but I always resist.

Quick! Somebody make a Cincinnati loves Ken Griffey Jr. too! video

by TheC on Oct 1, 2007 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

naughty, naughty TheC

"however" is a conjunctive adverb and not a coordinating conjunction.

"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Oct 1, 2007 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Taking Notes

Killer Tucans all the way!!!

by Zach K on Oct 1, 2007 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hamilton trade

I would love to deal Gonzo Freel Griffey etc.. but nowadays prospects are starting to be valuable to teams that used to trade them like pogs like the Yanks and Sox. The free agent market is abysmal, i head kyle losche is going to get 10 mil over the offseason. If we want pitching we have to trade something people actually want, someone with the kind of contract Hamilton has. Again i like him in the outfield, but im playing devil's advocate because no matter how good our outfield is we need pitching, at least one good starter if not two, plus bullpen help. Free agency seems like its a completely different ballgame, and the teams that used to sell the farm at the deadline aren't anymore.
Unless we make a major move for a pitcher or two, the Reds have no hope of contending, even in this division

by The Crushinator on Oct 1, 2007 12:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Trade him?

I think a trade of Hobbs doesn't make sense under most sceanrios. This guy just hit about .300 at the ML level after never playing any higher than A-ball. That's freakish. His injuries were the kibd I imagine a guy gets who is still working himself into true baseball shape throughout the season. I look for 120+ games next season, with 25+ HRs and 80 RBIs. With great defense. And that's being conservative. If he plays in 140, then all those numbers rose. Why could another team offer in return for this guy? It would have to be pretty good.

by jamesp50014 on Oct 1, 2007 3:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I would trade him

for Roy Halladay!!! that guy is amazing

Killer Tucans all the way!!!

by Zach K on Oct 1, 2007 8:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Trading Hobbs

Of course I'd trade Hamilton for a Hughes/Carmona type pitcher. The problem is, no GM in his right mind would make that trade; pitching is just too valuable. My bigger concern is that Krivsky will again trade a starting position player or two for a mediocre reliever or two.

And yes, I like semicolons, too.

just....wow.

by sidnancy on Oct 1, 2007 10:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree

and I will never use a semicolon again. What was e.e. cummings stand on the use of the semicolon?

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on Oct 1, 2007 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The simple rule is

Look to the left, look to the right, if on both sides you see an independent clause (i.e., a clause that could stand alone as a sentence) then a semicolon is appropriate.

"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Oct 1, 2007 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ha ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; ))))))))))))))

I love the Reds no matter what!

by Daedalus on Oct 1, 2007 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What is that?

Is that a single deformed computer person with 20 sets of eyes and 15 mouths? Or a group of different deformed computer people with either no mouth or no eyes?

Quick! Somebody make a Cincinnati loves Ken Griffey Jr. too! video

by TheC on Oct 1, 2007 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yep, I'd trade him

For the right pitcher(s)

I don't have much faith at all that he'll play over 100 games a season.

by bobestes on Oct 1, 2007 6:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

agreed

Actually, I'd trade almost anyone for the right price. But Hamilton might be at his most valuable right now. Not just the injury issues. I'm also not convinced he's put his substance abuse problems entirely behind him. That article by Trent, where he talks about how he had Johnny Narron in an adjoining hotel room everywhere they went, and he'd wake him up whenever he needed to avoid temptation, for example. How long are they going to have a 24-hour a day babysitter for him, and how long are they going to be testing him for drugs several times a week? And what happens when that stops?

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Oct 1, 2007 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Timing for a trade

My guess is that the Reds keep Hamilton until Stubbs is ready. In the meantime they can see how good his staying power is, but this is risky for all the reasons already mentioned. If, on the other hand, he continues to improve his game and his health and Bruce is as good as expected, then Dunn will probably be traded eventually.

by pw on Oct 1, 2007 7:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Trades

I would keep Hamilton if he turns into an MVP; and I would trade all of our bad players for good players. I would also trade a 4th round draft pick for Randy Moss.

by Brian B on Oct 2, 2007 12:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Trading Options

It appears that Krivsky is back for next year. He will be under pressure to win. To accomplish this, they need to pull in another starter. As I see it, there best trade chips are Bailey, Cueto, Bruce, Encarnacion, Hamilton & Votto.

They will need to package one of Bailey/Cueto & one out of the other four to get in the conversation for the type of pitcher needed. My fear is that the cost is too much. I still think they need to focus on 2009 when Griffey comes off the books. They need to hold onto to their chips until then & see where they are.

I think Castellini will put the pressure on Krivsky to make a move now that we may regret down the road. There will be a logjam in the OF next year as it stands now. Freel or Hopper along with one of the four position players mentioned above may bring in a pitcher, but I don't think it will be what we need. I just don't see Wayne being able to do another Arroyo for Pena.

by Jim Rockford on Oct 2, 2007 10:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

what planet are you from?

the reds need pitching, and you think it's a good idea to give up two promising starters?

I love the Reds no matter what!

by Daedalus on Oct 2, 2007 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Reply to Daedalus

I didn't say it was a good idea, but if you want to get Willis or say shoot higher (Bedard for example - I'm sure he is not avaialable) it's going to cost one of those young pitchers as well as a position player from that group. I don't think it is worth it.

If you read the second paragraph, I said they should hold onto to everyone & shoot for 2009 when JR comes off the books.

by Jim Rockford on Oct 2, 2007 1:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hit "Reply to This"

It's kind of a pet peeve around here.

Semicolons; RAWK!

by sukr on Oct 2, 2007 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think any GM

not named Isaiah would trade the Reds best pitching prospect in 20 years after 10 starts with the club at age 21. I wouldn't worry about that.

Would he consider trading Cueto? Possibly, but I doubt it. Bedard won't be available.

"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Oct 2, 2007 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dear sukr

I agree about the "reply to this."

by Red Menace on Oct 2, 2007 2:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

My fault

My fault - new to this forum. Will hit reply button in future.

by Jim Rockford on Oct 2, 2007 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No biggie

It just keeps things organized.

I think you are a little crazy for even hinting a a Bailey trade though, but that's just me.

Semicolons; RAWK!

by sukr on Oct 2, 2007 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bailey/Cueto

Sukr - I agree. I don't think you can part with either pitcher. But if you are a rival GM & they are trading established starting pitching, who will be the first person they ask for. That's the bind I fear Castellini will corner Krivsky into so that this team contends in 2008. I would resist at all costs & shoot for 2009 when you can have Harang, Arroyo, Bailey & Cueto in your rotation. Griffey would be gone and you could have a young and dynamic lineup.

by Jim Rockford on Oct 2, 2007 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think

I understand what you're saying. But like Man Mountain said, noggonna happen. If I understand this season at all, starting pitching shouldn't be the primary focus in the off, and relief pitching is not worth bartering the level of prospects you're talking about. Even as someone who is very paranoid about what Wayne Dingbat is going to do next, I would certainly bet on him not being THAT stupid.

Semicolons; RAWK!

by sukr on Oct 2, 2007 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs