Better Times

I went out drinking tonight

and my homey Braves Fan Kurt expressed his surprise that the Reds won that series. To which I said:

Check it:

Oliver (PIMP)
Benzinger (pimp, but Hal Morris was a pimp too)
Duncan (pimp)
Larkin (you know dis)
Sabo (on it)
Hatcher (can't front that)
Davis (My homey)
O'Neil (and Glenn Braggs, pimp)

Pitching:
Rijo (pimp)
Armstrong (pimp)
Browning (pimp)
Jackson (pimp)
Scudder (somehow pimp, how?)
Myers (100 mph piahmp)
Dibble (100 mph pimp
Charlton (100 mph pimp

VS:

Steinbach (bitch)
MacGuire (bitch)
Randolph (BITCH)
Weiss (total bitch)
Landsford (bitch)
Henderson (Not a bitch, rickey be rickey)
D. Henderson (bitch)
F. Jose (bitch)
(Canseco, bitch what a bitch)

Pitching:

Dave Stewart (bitch)
Bob Welch (yea, bitch)
Scott Sanderson (I don't remember this bitch)
Michael Moore (You have the namesake of a bitch)
Curt Young (Bitch, I hate that bitch)
Eckersley (Oliver's bitch, yea, you're the bitch of a shitty catcher)

"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Aug 14, 2007 3:04 AM EDT reply actions

your homey

must suffer from the worst delayed reaction in history. It happened 17 years ago, and he's surprised?

by Blue on Aug 14, 2007 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions

You can't expect Braves fans...

to pick up on things so quickly.

by Gray on Aug 14, 2007 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions

Call the Purple Prose Police!

There was some convuluted wordplay in there. Still very enjoyable.

Even more in question, though, was La Russa's strategy. If La Russa had sent Eckersley into the game to start the eighth inning, the outcome might have been entirely different. Little wonder some newspaper columnists described La Russa as "Man Asleep," a takeoff on Men at Work, George Will's best-selling baseball book, which includes a laudatory chapter on La Russa's managerial acumen.

LaRussa's certainly made a habit of falling asleep at the wheel. That's what you get for your slavish devotion to closer usage!

Reeeddd Men-ace

by Red Menace on Aug 14, 2007 3:17 AM EDT reply actions

Reeeddd Men-ace

"Two Dunn's enter, but only one Dunn will leave...unless neither do because they decide to play cards, drink beer, golf, and fish."--SlydeFrog

by Man Mountain on Aug 14, 2007 3:28 AM EDT up reply actions

1990 Reds the kind of team that Defies logic

Only 2 strong starters: Rijo 14-8 & Browning 15-9
But there were the nasty boys - Norm,Rob and Randy

Only Davis (24) and Sabo (25) hit over 20 HRs
Hal Morris had a great average - .340

But theses guys were a 'gritty', 'hustling', 'scrappy' team with a never say die 'chemistry'. (my apologies to MM, Red Menace, Slyde etc.for such old school, little league descriptions)

Sabo was driven, Oester was always pissed off,Hatcher was possessed, Eric Davis was a joy to watch (unless you were Marge Schott),Marianno Duncan was exciting, Barry Larkin covered so much ground and of course how can we forget Herm Winningham, not to mention Glenn Braggs.

I went to 2 play off games with the Pirates. We won one and lost one and looked weak as hell in both games. The Reds as a team that year did not have that great of a line up but guys like Sabo, Davis and Hatcher were truly 'Clutch'.

They say it is all over in the blink of an eye. Don't Blink.

by Madville on Aug 14, 2007 8:00 AM EDT reply actions

Huh?

Only 2 strong starters: Rijo 14-8 & Browning 15-9

Jack Armstrong was the All-Star Game starter in '90.

But theses guys were a 'gritty', 'hustling', 'scrappy' team with a never say die 'chemistry'.

Of course, they were also 5th in runs scored and 1st in runs allowed in the league. Their top 4 starters were all above average or better (Rijo was 3rd in ERA+); the 5 relievers with the most IP were all above average to stupid (Dibble: 98 IP, 224 ERA+; Myers 86 2/3 IP, 190 ERA+; Charlton 154 1/3 IP, 144 ERA+).

They may have been "gritty", "hustling", and "scrappy", but a better adjective is "good".

just....wow.

by sidnancy on Aug 14, 2007 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions

if the reds fielded that team today,

the negativity about most of the players would be overwhelming. morris doesn't hit for power and shouldn't be starting first base...no power in the outfield...browning doesn't strikeout enough batters...etc...

Reds owner Marge Schott dedicated the Series to "our women and men in the Far East."HAHAHAHAHA!

I love the Reds no matter what!

by Daedalus on Aug 14, 2007 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions

Again

Huh?

The "old school guys", in addition to "playing the right way" would have pointed to the league-leading AVE and the fact they were 8th out of 12 in strikeouts. They were also 2nd in the league in ERA (by .02 ER/gm).

The "new school guys" would have merely mentioned, like I did above, to all of those runs scored and prevented. They also were 4th in the league in SB (at a respectable 71% clip). The pitchers as a whole were 2nd in strikeouts and only 8th in walks.

I highly doubt that a team that was in 1st the entire year, doing so many different things well, would have brought much ire from anyone but the jerkiest of fans.

just....wow.

by sidnancy on Aug 14, 2007 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions

Agree...

The Dback this year remind me a lot of that team then...

by artvandelay on Aug 14, 2007 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions

Who says sabr stats don't help

you appreciate the game? A 226 ERA+?!?!?! That's insane. I don't follow sabr stats too closely, so I don't think I've ever seen an ERA+ above 200. His WHIP was below 1.00. Over 130 K's in 98 innings. Dibble wasn't just nasty, he was downright filthy. Nearly as nasty as the goatee he had on Baseball Tonight (tigrmetrics).

I'm going to be daydreaming about this team all day...

by Brendanukkah on Aug 14, 2007 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Jack Armstrong was a 1/2 season wonder.

He was very talented and very very very much in love with Jack Armstrong. I think he only won like 5 or 6 six games in 1990, if my memory is close.

They say it is all over in the blink of an eye. Don't Blink.

by Madville on Aug 14, 2007 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions

no, he won 12

but i think he had 9 wins at the all star break.

I love the Reds no matter what!

by Daedalus on Aug 14, 2007 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions

Even worse than that...

I Split G GS GF W L S CG SHO IP ERA H R ER HR BB IBB SO HBP
+-+------------+---+--+--+--+--+--+--+---+-----+------+---+---+---+--+---+---+---+---+
1st Half 17 17 0 11 3 0 1 1 114.2 2.28 95 37 29 5 31 5 78 3
2nd Half 12 10 1 1 6 0 1 0 51.1 5.96 56 35 34 4 28 2 32 3

I Split G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR BB IBB SO HBP SH SF ROE GDP SB CS Pk BA OBP SLG OPS
+-+------------+---+----+----+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+-----+----- +-----+-----+
1st Half 17 471 428 37 95 20 4 5 31 5 78 3 5 4 5 2 6 3 0 .222 .277 .322 .599
2nd Half 12 233 197 35 56 10 2 4 28 2 32 3 3 1 5 7 8 3 0 .284 .380 .416 .796

by Gray on Aug 14, 2007 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions

wow

i remember thinking during that first half that we were watching the birth of a star pitcher. never would have guessed he'd burn out so soon.

I love the Reds no matter what!

by Daedalus on Aug 14, 2007 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions

i remember thinking

he had turned into Wayne Simpson

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on Aug 14, 2007 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions

Don't forget...

That when you say "only two strong starters" that Charlton started 16 games for them also, and they picked up Rick Mahler (who did a credible job) for the stretch run. Also, Danny Jackson had an ERA+ of 110 that season, which was also above average.

It goes to show that if you have a bullpen that consists of Dibble, Charlton and Myers (who were just plain wrong), plus spare parts (Birtsas, Layana) who were at least average or better, you can shorten games to six innings so you can get by with a more limited starting rotation.

Please exercise Adam Dunn's 2008 option.

by Paul Householder on Aug 14, 2007 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions

No kidding

It goes to show that if you have a bullpen that consists of Dibble, Charlton and Myers (who were just plain wrong), plus spare parts (Birtsas, Layana) who were at least average or better, you can shorten games to six innings so you can get by with a more limited starting rotation.

Those 5 combined to throw 366 1/3 IP of relief with an ERA of 2.68 (Rijo was 5th in the league with a 2.70 that year, 3rd in ERA+).

Adjust for the complete games, and that means those 5 averaged more than 2 1/3 IP/gm pitching as well as the 3rd best starter in the league.

just....wow.

by sidnancy on Aug 14, 2007 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions

My '90 WS story

I was living in Detroit at the time; one of my friends ran numbers for a bookie. I'd been bragging up the "Wire to Wire" Reds all year.

The odds for a Reds sweep were 25-1; they paid 4-1 to win the series. Jeff bugged me for days to "bet the sweep if they're so good", but I just couldn't do it - I just bet them to win. I have to admit, a small part of me was hoping for a game 5.

just....wow.

by sidnancy on Aug 14, 2007 8:52 AM EDT reply actions

Them thar Reds of 1990

I got married on the night the Reds won the '90 World Series. A bunch of us trooped up stairs from the reception hall to watch the end of the game.
My (new) wife was a little PO'd, but her Dad was with us, so what could she say? :)

And yes, when you think about it, they WERE pretty good. They beat a pretty good Pirates team led by Bobby Bonilla and some kid named Bonds. Whatever happened to him, anyways?

If I'd known I was gonna live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself.

by Lonesome George on Aug 14, 2007 9:11 AM EDT reply actions

Reds - Pirates 90 playoffs

it seemed like it was Bonds, Bonilla and Van Slyke coming up every inning for those guys. I was lucky enough to be in the stands in Pittsburgh to see "the throw" nail Bonilla at third. Simply awesome

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on Aug 14, 2007 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions

As a 9 year old kid

I remember being terrified of Doug Drabek. Looking back at his numbers, it seems I had good reason to be. 22-6 in 1990 with a 2.76 ERA. His ERA+ was 131 with a 1.063 WHIP. Pretty good numbers. In the NLCS that year, he went 1-1, but he had a 1.65 ERA for the Series. His year was so good that he finished 8th in the MVP balloting (Bonds and Bonilla were 1-2).

The Pirates have been bad long enough, and so have the Reds. I want a return to the days when the Reds are competing for all the marbles, and the Pirates have a team that would scare small children (not just sabermatricians).

by Brendanukkah on Aug 14, 2007 9:31 AM EDT reply actions

what was the phrase?

Oakland had great talent, Cincinnati was a great "team".

Ahh the Glory Days for sure (cue Springsteen) and it is nice to reflect on something that seems so long ago now. Holy Crap it was 17 years ago, where has time flown? Willie McGee led the league in hitting. Some Guy named Fielder hit 51 hrs (struck out 182x)that year also.

The time is now for the Reds to put a contender on the field. Come on Wayne we deserve better than we have gotten this year.

Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on Aug 14, 2007 9:51 AM EDT reply actions

Rob Dibble could throw that speedball by you

Make you look like a fool, now.

by Brendanukkah on Aug 14, 2007 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions

we better win in the next two years

so we don't have one of those pathetic 20th anniversary celebrations like so many teams do...

I love the Reds no matter what!

by Daedalus on Aug 14, 2007 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions

Things could be worse

We could be the Devil Rays.

http://the-jaunt.blogspot.com/2007/08/ambiguously-gay-devil-rays.html

by Brendanukkah on Aug 14, 2007 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Absolutely - Caleb

your single phrase says exactly what I verbosely attempted to say in my earlier comment:Oakland had great talent, Cincinnati was a great "team". Don't forget that guy, what was his name, Louie P.? He was the manager who drove the bus and expected everyone to play at as close to the top of their game as humanly possible. Truly a 'team accomplishment'.

They say it is all over in the blink of an eye. Don't Blink.

by Madville on Aug 14, 2007 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions

"Great team"

I don't normally care for this term, but it really seems like everyone on the Reds that year contributed directly to sweeping the A's (with the exception of maybe Danny Jackson and Jack Armstrong). The stars pulled their weight, particularly Rijo and the bullpen. Larkin, Davis, and Sabo were all good, Hatcher was record-breaking, Herm Winningham and Glenn Braggs stepped in, Joe Oliver had some clutch hits, Todd Benzinger made the final out, and of course, little Billy Bates even scored the winning run of Game 2. Dude makes Norris Hopper look like Ted Williams.

by Brendanukkah on Aug 14, 2007 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions

i was 6 years old

and the first cogient memories of watching professional baseball i have are of watching barry larkin in that series. every year from then on i was number 11 in little league.

i think if the pirates had won it that year i would have ended up a pirates fan (im from SE ohio, alot of pirates fans). my life could have been completely different. i could be wearing an andy van slyke jersey...

at least this isnt pittsburgh

by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 14, 2007 11:14 AM EDT reply actions

Best arms

No pitching staff had 4 power arms like Rijo and the Nasty Boys that year, especially in the postseason.

Remember 1990

by Dominican Red on Aug 14, 2007 11:32 AM EDT reply actions

Ah, yes, the old days (cough, hack)

I was 6 years old when the Reds lost to the Yankees in 1961, and that scarred me for life. :)

I.Hate.The.Yankees. (but BubbaFan you're nice, so don't take that personally).

And Doug Drabek is a scary guy, too. Usta eat little kids for snacks.

If I'd known I was gonna live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself.

by Lonesome George on Aug 14, 2007 11:36 AM EDT reply actions

Little kids are not the snacks

Red Octobers are the snacks!

by Brendanukkah on Aug 14, 2007 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions

I wish I was old enough to appreciate 1990

I was 3 at the time. I may have known "3 strikes and your out". The only time I remeber watching the Red's in the playoff's in 1995. 1999 scarred me. I have now come to expect bad things to happen to the Red's. I know they have had their fare share of incompetency, but if Ty Howington, Ken Griffey, Gruller, were healthy things might have been a little different.

Which is why next spring I expect to read, Harang, Bailey, and Cueto to start the year on the DL, and by June they are having their labrums repaired, and they return as just a shell of the pitchers they once were.

by justin0070000 on Aug 14, 2007 12:05 PM EDT reply actions

Y'know, they still haven't caught that anthrax guy

You just be quiet with that kind of talk!

by Brendanukkah on Aug 14, 2007 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions

I had hopes

that the 99 reds were going to be the 90 reds part deux. It took till the third out in the 9th of that game against the Mets till I changed my mind.

'Clutch' to me is the epitome of experimenter's bias.

by TheDude @ Red Reporter on Aug 14, 2007 1:04 PM EDT reply actions

al leiter was a mensch that day

i remember the day following up to the game was full of excitement, but by the 4th inning it was obvious leiter wasnt going to give an inch. that game felt like the longest game ive ever watched.

at least this isnt pittsburgh

by Charlie Scrabbles on Aug 14, 2007 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions

That game...

Was where the Reds truly jumped the shark.

I feel like we went from Happy Days to Joanie Loves Chachi in about three hours.

Please exercise Adam Dunn's 2008 option.

by Paul Householder on Aug 14, 2007 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions

See I became a reds fan in 01!

so you guys atleast had something to watch in august...I haven't...perhaps thats why i'm so bitter

"Always root for the winner. That way you won't be disappointed." -Tug McGraw

by Zach K on Aug 14, 2007 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Our sports editor's kids

were teenagers and big A's fans because of Canseco. They collected Canseco baseball cards like they were gold bars. We ribbed them unmercifully during that series, telling them we'd consider swapping them "one Billy Hatcher 1990 Topps for seven Canseco rookie cards" or some such silliness. They took the teasing well.

We Are ... Marshall!

by Thundering Turtle on Aug 14, 2007 1:46 PM EDT reply actions

Tom Browning

"He was still dressed in his uniform, of course. "I looked kind of goofy, like some sort of crazy fan who had wandered into the hospital," he said. The doctor made him get rid of his chaw, and he had taken off his hat, but there he was in his scrubs as a Caesarean section was performed on Debbie. The game ended at 11:57 p.m., and Tucker Thomas Browning came into the world at 12:37 a.m., weighing six pounds, 11 ounces. "He came out crying, 'Win! Win!' " said Tom."

AbsoSmurfley priceless!

I Is Unacculturated in an antrhropological sort of way

by Pops Daniels on Aug 14, 2007 3:58 PM EDT reply actions

SI

That SI had an overhead shot of the crowd at Fountain Square celebrating the win. You can see me sitting on the fence around the fountain, wearing one of those corny Starter Reds jackets. I skipped school that day and drove down. Pretty sweet.

by cggarb on Aug 14, 2007 3:58 PM EDT reply actions

those jackets were teh kool then

just like paris hilton sunglasses are now...

I love the Reds no matter what!

by Daedalus on Aug 14, 2007 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions

Logo

Is it just me or is that World Series logo fantastic? I love looking at it. Here are the logos throughout history:
http://www.sportslogos.net/team.php?t=484

I like the 87-91 style. 92-97 they went gold. Then in 98 things got weird.

Reeeddd Men-ace

by Red Menace on Aug 15, 2007 12:18 PM EDT reply actions

I agree

I wonder if the broadcast network has say in the logo. Things started getting drastically different in 2000, the same year that Fox took over full time. And I don't know if it's a coincidence, but ever since Fox began broadcasting baseball, the ratings for the World Series have fallen. Last season got a 10.1 rating, compared to 1990 which brought a 20.8 rating. Heck, even the 1995 season (on ABC/NBC), the year after the strike, brought a 19.5 rating. The only time Fox has drawn over a 16 rating for the Series was 1996 (17.4).

I blame Tim McCarver for all of this.

I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Aug 15, 2007 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions

fox sux

and mccarver probably does have something to do with it. and jeanie zlasko - god, is she annoying or what? and the fact that the games don't start until 8:30 because they have to have their stupid pregame shows. and scooter. and showing the freaking broadcasters instead of the game. and the fact that they never shut up the entire time.

and maybe people really are tired of watching the same damn teams play every year (playoffs included). last year's tigers were a refreshing change.

I love the Reds no matter what!

by Daedalus on Aug 15, 2007 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't know

There have been 10 different teams in the last 6 World Series. I know a lot of the same teams make the playoffs every year, but I don't know what MLB could do to bring more parity to the World Series. Especially since some of the perennial playoff contenders (Twins, A's, Dodgers, Mets) haven't played in any of those Series.

I'm a numbers freak, numbers freak. I'm numbers freaky, ow.

by Slyde on Aug 15, 2007 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions

my rational mind tells me that is true

but it still doesn't help the feeling that it's always some combo of deadbirds and bankees. i guess out of the last ten WS, only three times was there a WS without either of them. and since i hate both of those teams with all of my being, it has skewed my perception a bit!

I love the Reds no matter what!

by Daedalus on Aug 15, 2007 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions