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YADD: Solo Home Runs

sigh...

Things are dreary in Redland, so I thought I'd embark on a futile exercise. First an anecdote: Last Wednesday I was watching the game at a bar. After Dunn's home run a friend and fellow Reds fan came in from smoking a cigarette. "Dunn just homered," I said. "Oh yeah?" he replied checking the score. "Huh. Figures it was a solo shot."

For some reason the unfairness of this increasingly common observance stuck with me. I later saw the same sentiment expressed here. It just feels like Dunn hits too many solo shots, right? (it certainly doesn't feel like he ever hits a grand slam in the bottom of the ninth, down three with a full count). So I reluctantly probe into the matter, fully aware that I have zero chance of convincing anyone of anything (and for the record I think Dunn has flaws).

2007 Bases Occupied Splits (apologies to those with low resolutions)

 I Split         G   GS  PA  AB  R   H  2B 3B HR RBI  BB IBB  SO HBP  SH  SF ROE GDP  SB CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  BAbip sOPS+ tOPS+ Split
+-+------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-- ---+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+------------+
RISP 33 49 39 7 0 0 3 14 10 1 17 0 0 0 0 1 .179 .347 .410 .757 .211 99 71 RISP
--- 45 111 96 29 7 1 6 6 14 0 33 1 0 0 1 0 .302 .396 .583 .979 .404 170 117 ---
Men On 41 84 71 14 0 1 6 21 13 1 31 0 0 0 0 8 .197 .321 .479 .800 .235 109 77 Men On
1-- 26 35 32 7 0 1 3 7 3 0 14 0 0 0 0 7 .219 .286 .563 .849 .267 119 83 1--
-2- 14 16 13 2 0 0 0 2 3 1 5 0 0 0 0 0 .154 .313 .154 .467 .250 26 15 -2-
--3 3 3 3 1 0 0 1 2 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 .333 .333 1.333 1.666 .000 296 239 --3
12- 17 19 14 2 0 0 1 3 5 0 8 0 0 0 0 1 .143 .368 .357 .725 .200 107 67 12-
1-3 6 6 6 1 0 0 0 2 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 .167 .167 .167 .334 .250 -15 -23 1-3
-23 2 2 1 1 0 0 1 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1.000 1.000 4.000 5.000 undef 1115 917 -23
123 3 3 2 0 0 0 0 2 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .333 .000 .333 .000 4 -8 123

 

Dunn's .179 avg with RISP certainly won't win him any fans, but our concern here is chiefly the home runs.

Bases Empty 6
Runners on 6
1-run 6
2-run 4
3-run 2
4-run 0

I strongly suspect this isn't out of the ordinary. Here's Griffey's 11 home runs:

Bases Empty 6
Runners on 5
1-run 6
2-run 4
3-run 1
4-run 0

I was in a bar when Griffey smacked his tonight (this seems to be a habit with me) and I didn't hear anyone lament that it was a solo shot.

Does anyone have the average percentage of homeruns that are solo, etc? We've played this game before, but here are the career percentage of various players solo shots to their total home runs.

Derek Jeter    67.7%
David Ortiz    63.3%
Barry Bonds    59.1%
Adam Dunn      56.6%
Reggie Jackson 54.7%
Alex Rodriguez 52.2%

If we continue won't we find that nearly all players hit 50-60 percentage of their homeruns with no one on base (note:Jeter, as a frequent leadoff man is penalized in the above exercise. What's Big Papi's excuse?)

Can we retired this odd criticism? If Dunn leads off an inning (batting sixth) and hits a home run can he be praised? If blame must be passed can it be given to the players who made out before Dunn reached the plate? Can I stop this?

Probably not. If it feels like all of Dunn's home runs are solo shots there's no arguing with that. The Reds keep losing and I'm sad.

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im sad
i switched to highres, and now everything's running slow and your stupid table still doesnt fit. a pox upon you
"Swing away, Bronson." -- sayeth Chris Welsh.

by boobs on May 26, 2007 4:14 AM EDT   0 recs

table doesn't fit for me, either
And this laptop doesn't go bigger than 1280x800. :-P

Anyway, I don't think league averages for solo vs. runners on homers would mean much.  It's as much a reflection on the team as on the hitter.  Can't hit a multi-run shot if no one gets on base.


All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named "Bubba"?

by BubbaFan on May 26, 2007 7:15 AM EDT   0 recs

solo shots
I wonder what the numbers are on the all time top ten hr hitters are regarding solo shots?

by Caleb on May 26, 2007 8:10 AM EDT   0 recs

We don't have this data for everyone
so for who we do have it for (since 1957):
Aaron - 351 solo, 317 mob
Bonds - 441 solo, 304 mob
Ruth - no splits
Mays - 274 solo, 228 mob
Sosa - 322 solo, 276 mob
Robinson - 300 solo, 248 mob
McGwire - 306 solo, 277 mob
Griffey - 311 solo, 263 mob
Killebrew - 271 solo, 293 mob
Palmeiro - 329 solo, 240 mob

Something not noted here that should be is the number of plate appearances in each bucket.  That would affect the percentages as much as anything.


2007 Reds Threat Level is Green

by Slyde on May 26, 2007 8:18 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

so Killebrew
is the only one to hit more non solo than solo shots? Those other guys must have sucked like Dunn

by Caleb on May 26, 2007 8:45 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah
I was going to throw in some all time greats, but didn't for that reason. Adding up Hank Aaron's splits at 3am, somewhat weary, I had a "Stop the presses!" moment. I thought I could break a Mr. 3000 story.

by Red Menace on May 26, 2007 11:06 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

A couple of things
Hopefully this fits better down here without the strange border on both sides.

 I Split         G   GS  PA  AB  R   H  2B 3B HR RBI  BB IBB  SO HBP  SH  SF ROE GDP  SB CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  BAbip sOPS+ tOPS+ Split
+-+------------+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+--+--+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+--+-----+-- ---+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+------------+
   RISP          33      49  39       7  0  0  3  14  10   1  17   0   0   0   0   1         .179  .347  .410  .757  .211    99    71 RISP        
   ---           45     111  96      29  7  1  6   6  14   0  33   1   0   0   1   0         .302  .396  .583  .979  .404   170   117 ---          
   Men On        41      84  71      14  0  1  6  21  13   1  31   0   0   0   0   8         .197  .321  .479  .800  .235   109    77 Men On      
   1--           26      35  32       7  0  1  3   7   3   0  14   0   0   0   0   7         .219  .286  .563  .849  .267   119    83 1--          
   -2-           14      16  13       2  0  0  0   2   3   1   5   0   0   0   0   0         .154  .313  .154  .467  .250    26    15 -2-          
   --3            3       3   3       1  0  0  1   2   0   0   1   0   0   0   0   0         .333  .333 1.333 1.666  .000   296   239 --3          
   12-           17      19  14       2  0  0  1   3   5   0   8   0   0   0   0   1         .143  .368  .357  .725  .200   107    67 12-          
   1-3            6       6   6       1  0  0  0   2   0   0   2   0   0   0   0   0         .167  .167  .167  .334  .250   -15   -23 1-3          
   -23            2       2   1       1  0  0  1   3   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   0        1.000 1.000 4.000 5.000 undef  1115   917 -23          
   123            3       3   2       0  0  0  0   2   1   0   1   0   0   0   0   0         .000  .333  .000  .333  .000     4    -8 123

Secondly, here is the break down the last two seasons on HR with Runners on and without:
2007
------
runners on: 580
bases empty: 763
Percentage solo: 57%

2006
------
runners on: 2297
bases empty:  3089
Percentage solo: 57%

I'd do more seasons, but I don't think they'll look much different.


2007 Reds Threat Level is Green

by Slyde on May 26, 2007 8:10 AM EDT   0 recs

Tsk tsk
I think you've mislabeled. Shouldn't "bases empty" read "rally killers"?

by teb7 on May 26, 2007 9:27 AM EDT   0 recs

What about the ratio of Strikeouts w/MOB ?
Farewell coach Narron and Bucky too!

by Madville on May 26, 2007 9:34 AM EDT   0 recs

wouldn't that need to include...
Strikeouts w/MOB and less than two outs? Because then a strikeout is the same as a flyball to the wall.

by Caleb on May 26, 2007 10:45 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Pitchers
No way to quantify this, but wouldn't pitchers be more careful facing a slugger with MOB and be less likely to give him something to drive?

by pw on May 26, 2007 9:42 AM EDT   0 recs

So, you mean...
You might expect his batting average to go down, and his on-base percentage to go up?  Especially when he bats lower in the order, where the batters behind him are even less of a threat?

No, I think he's just fat and lazy and Un-Clutch.

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on May 26, 2007 9:50 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Thanks, RM
Nice breakdown there.  I only have one thing to add.

I think in this situation, it's important to look at not only the number of home runs, but also the rate at which they're hit.  A person who takes half their AB's with runners on base SHOULD hit half his HR's with runners on base.  Dunn's career splits:

None on - 1694AB, 119HR, 14.2AB/HR
Runners on - 1305AB, 91HR, 14.3AB/HR

Dunn hits 56% of his home runs with nobody on base because Dunn takes 56% of his at-bats with nobody on base.

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on May 26, 2007 9:48 AM EDT   0 recs

kudos
This was clearly the next step, but I didn't feel like taking it last night. Thank you, sir.

by Red Menace on May 26, 2007 11:11 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Dunn's K ratios (for Madville)
Overall:     997 K in 3662 PA, 27.06% K rate
Bases Empty: 541 K in 1961 PA, 27.59% K rate
Runners on:  450 K in 1701 PA, 26.46% K rate
RISP:        258 K in 1003 PA, 25.72% K rate

Dunn strikes out less than his average with runners on base, and he strikes out even less than that with runners in scoring position. Stats taken from Baseball Reference.

by teb7 on May 26, 2007 10:08 AM EDT   0 recs

Statistically Adam Dunn
appears to be a more than acceptable player. I guess we all expect Dunn to be Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron and Willie McCovey rolled into one.

Lets not trade him after all.

Farewell coach Narron and Bucky too!

by Madville on May 26, 2007 10:27 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed
As SlydeFrog often points out, our perception of the Donkey is conditioned by expectations of a HR every at bat.

I do have a sense he shies from "big" situations. But I admit that with full knowledge that I can't trust a vague impression to be true.

Now why's e'erbody so mad at the South for?

by Man Mountain on May 26, 2007 12:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

my curiousity is now peaked
I do not remember Bench as being a consistent "clutch" hitter. Seems like he hit a lot of home runs after the game was decided. Can one of you chart masters compare Dunn and Bench and post it?

by Caleb on May 26, 2007 12:58 PM EDT   0 recs

Caleb
I shall make you fishers of stats.  I don't know if you can see these splits (I don't know if there behind a subscription), but these are Bench's for his career - according to BBRef.
Split            PA   HR HR Rate   BB   BB Rate
2 outs, RISP   1226   47   26.1   188    6.5
Late & Close   1974   96   20.6   190   10.4
Tie Game       2404   97   24.8   259    9.3
Within 1 R     4590  201   22.8   480    9.6
Within 2 R     6091  271   22.5   634    9.6
Within 3 R     7072  314   22.5   734    9.6
Within 4 R     7657  335   22.9   796    9.6
Margin > 4 R   1002   53   18.9    94   10.7

On the surface, without looking in much detail, it looks like Johnny homered more with the game well-in/well-out of hand.  However, his walk rate also went down in those situations, so it could just be that pitchers were pitching to him more in those situations with very little to risk.  Either way, I'd say his rates are reasonably consistent though in tie games he did have a slightly lower homer rate.

I didn't post Dunn's because I want you to go look at BBRef yourself.  If you can't see his splits, let me know and I will post them.  However, a year ago this kind of stuff was much harder to find, but now it's ridiculously easy.  I don't mind posting these types of things - I understand that people don't really want to look them up themselves and I like doing that stuff - but I wanted to take this instance to proselytize for BBRef since it really has made the world of statistical minutia so much more accessible to all.


2007 Reds Threat Level is Green

by Slyde on May 26, 2007 1:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

but they look so
much prettier when you post them. Thanks

It is easier to find those stats now. Even an old school guy like me can find them

by Caleb on May 27, 2007 7:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

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