Coffey doesn't suck (aka Narron has blown out the bullpen in 2 1/2 weeks)

by Watubi on Apr 18, 2007 11:34 PM EDT

Coffey shouldn't have been in the game, but not because he's horrible. He had no business being out there after pitching the previous two nights. Even though he looked great last night against the Brewers, only throwing 7 pitches, he threw 26 on Monday night. He'd also been in nine of the first 14 games (before tonight), which brings us to the bigger point.

Even though he has seven relievers, Narron has blown out virtually the entire bullpen in two weeks and three days. Just take a look at the stats through 14 games (Tuesday's win over Milwaukee):

Saarloos 9 appearances
Coffey 9 appearances
Stanton 8 appearances
Santos 7 appearances
Weathers 7 appearances
Cormier 5 appearances
Coutlangus 5 appearances

After tonight, it's 10 appearances in 15 games for Coffey and 8 for Santos.

This shit just can't go on. Coffey is on pace for 108 appearances, Saarloos 97, Stanton and Santos 86 each, and Weathers 76. There is no way on earth that any of these guys can sustain this kind of workload through May, much less the end of September. Hell, they're already starting to show signs of being tired.

None of this is Krivsky's fault. Sure, he should never have signed Cormier or traded for Saarloos, but what Narron is doing to the relievers' arms is beyond ridiculous.

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What do you think he's doing wrong?

Playing lefty-righty matchup too much? Pulling the starters too soon?

At least he's using the entire bullpen. Last year, Joe Torre drove me nuts, using Scott Proctor four days in a row while we wondered if Ron Villone died and they just didn't bother to tell us.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named "Bubba"?

by BubbaFan on Apr 19, 2007 7:00 AM EDT reply actions

Todd

I think he (Narron) comes up with a blueprint in his mind of how he is going to use these guys each night and forgets that he's run them out 2-3 nights in a row.

While he is using the entire pen I'm not sure he is putting those guys in the best situations each and every time he brings one in. I really think Todd will be fine, just a rough couple of outings. Rheal on the other hand...

by Caleb on Apr 19, 2007 8:41 AM EDT reply actions

April

I don't think starters are expected to go deep into a game early in the season. Narron will probably ease off the bullpen soon.

by pw on Apr 19, 2007 9:06 AM EDT reply actions

it is a damned if you do ...

damned if you don't situation. Remember a few years ago when Oakland had the rotation that went deep into every game and then were all burned up a few years later?

by Caleb on Apr 19, 2007 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions

Overuse

It does look like Narron is abusing the relievers. Through last night, the Reds' relievers had only pitched 42 innings, 13th in the NL. However, Coffey is tied for 1st in appearances, Saarloos is tied for 4th, Santos and Stanton tied for 6th, Weathers tied for 27th. It's not just the IP, it's the fact these guys have to get ready every single night.

I didn't get a chance to watch the game last night. Why was Harang pulled? His numbers look pretty effective - 3 H, 2 BB, 8K, only 101 pitches. The guy's been your horse for 2 years, the pen's getting alot of work, let him pitch!

just....wow.

by sidnancy on Apr 19, 2007 9:38 AM EDT reply actions

The only thing I can think

is that he didn't seem to have his pristine command that he usually shows. He was leaving a lot of balls up in the zone, but was getting away with it. I wonder if Narron felt like he had gotten away with enough. But that's why he's a staff ace, he can still be effective even when he doesn't have his best stuff.

The other thing might be that he's not quite full strength since he just had the flu. Maybe 100 pitches was all he could give last night.

2007 Reds Threat Level is Yellow

by Slyde on Apr 19, 2007 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions

LaRussa effect

Good observation - it looks like the 'pen is racking up a lot of one and two-out appearances. No doubt that this can be effective (it would've been a good idea against Berkman last night), but there's a long-term price to pay if you do it regularly. Narron should have guys who've started before, like Saarloos or Santos, pitch less frequently but for at least an inning when they do.

by ken on Apr 19, 2007 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions

Spot on analysis

<< It's not just the IP, it's the fact these guys have to get ready every single night. >>

That is absolutely the point. Even if a reliever is only going to face one hitter, he's still got to get loose. It's not like Cormier or Coffey or anybody could just get "half" warmed up because he was only going to face Lance Berkman or El Caballo.

In the post-steroid era, I think relievers will have to be used less frequently, but for more innings per appearance. Part of the benefit of steroid use for relief pitchers is that it enabled them to recover from an outing quicker and letting them pitch effectively two and three nights in a row. Those days are over now. I don't have any evidence, but I'll wager 50 Quatloons that these days relievers have no command and tend to get shelled when pitching on the third straight night.

I don't have a problem with Harang getting pulled after 101 pitches; maybe he could have left him in to pitch to one or two more hitters, but he clearly was near the point where he would have to be taken at.

But Narron should have taken the idea that somebody was going to have to pitch both the 7th and 8th, before going to Weathers in the 9th. Or have one guy pitch the 7th and then have Weathers in there for 2 innings.

by Watubi on Apr 19, 2007 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions

According to the Post...

...Harang had thrown over a hundred pitches. He told Narron he felt "mentally tired," so they pulled him. He's been sick, remember.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named "Bubba"?

by BubbaFan on Apr 19, 2007 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions

The number of apperances dosen't bother me

its the apperances in consective games that bothers me, Coffey should not have been out there tonight but I don't think the relevers arm are going to fall off. A night without warming up at least would have done Coffey well.

by OURob on Apr 19, 2007 11:30 AM EDT reply actions