Extra Info: Payroll

by jacob brumfield on Nov 30, 2007 9:54 AM EST Comment 87 comments

Via Reds.com

********
Breaking it down: The Associated Press revealed the breakdown of Cordero's contract. The 32-year-old will receive a $500,000 signing bonus and be paid $8.5 million in 2008. The salary jumps to $12 million for each of the final three seasons with full no-trade protection for the first two seasons and a limited no-trade clause after that.

Thoughts on future? Dunn is heading into the option year of a contract that will pay him $13 million this season. Eligible to be a first-time free agent next winter, he was asked Thursday if aggressive acquisitions like Cordero's would make him more open to signing an extension with Cincinnati. There have yet to be any talks, he indicated.

"Hopefully, at some point we'll get to that," Dunn said. "I'm enjoying the offseason and I'll deal with it when it comes."
********

Payroll will only be taking a 8.5 mil jump next year, still space to sign a crappy veteran reliever to a one year deal.

Strange that Cordero's contract jumps the year after Dunn's current contract. Even scarier that there has been no talk of an extension.

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Not so strange

It also jumps once the Reds are technically free of Griffey's contract as well. But then, so do Harang (+4 million) and Arroyo's (+3 million) contracts. Add in Griffey's buyout and those three increases and we're up to $14.5 million, or a couple million more than Griffey technically makes this year. So it may be Griffey's contract that they are working around, not Dunn's.

Also off the books will be around $8 million for Stanton, Weathers, Hatteberg, and Castro, though Staton's 2009 option could become guaranteed with 71 appearances in 2008. That $8 million will probably handle most of the raises due to arbitration (BP, EdE, Cantu, Belisle, Coffey, and Majewski are all likely up for arb).

That basically would mean then that it comes down to what they want to do with Dunn's money. There will probably need money for the bullpen, especially since Weathers will either be gone or resigned. Theoretically Bruce will fill Griffey's spot, so they shouldn't need to spend money to replace his production. Barring catastrophic injuries, every other position should be covered for approximately the same price (small raises for Gonzalez and Ross). So the question is whether or not the Reds think they can replace Dunn or if they think he is important enough to lock up for a few more years.

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Nov 30, 2007 10:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I think...

Ash should have her baseball bat at the ready and pull a Tonya Harding/Nancy Kerrigan on Stanton as he is waddling in from the bullpen for his 71st appearance.

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on Nov 30, 2007 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

or 1st apperance

by jacob brumfield on Nov 30, 2007 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Saw this yesterday FWIW

MLB Trade Rumors guessed that the "Mystery Team" involved in the Santana melee might be the the Reds. I assumed it was a joke at first, but I suppose that the Reds do have the pieces to offer an attractive (though certainly stupid) deal for Johan.

by Man Mountain on Nov 30, 2007 12:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

They should have to take Juan Castro back

Reparations!

by Brendanukkah on Nov 30, 2007 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair

The Reds gave Castro to the Twins, too. It's good to know that the Reds are engaged in one of those symbiotic, eco-friendly partnerships the leaflets tell us about. We keep swapping excrement for excrement.

by Man Mountain on Nov 30, 2007 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Back and forth. Together. Forever.

by Brendanukkah on Nov 30, 2007 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Smith and Jones

forever, together, forever and ever...

by Man Mountain on Nov 30, 2007 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And that's an invitation...

.. To make a reservation

The Magical Mystery Team is coming to take you away!
Coming to take you away.

The Magical Mystery team is dying to take you away.
Dying to take you away, take you away.

Dying, here. Dying, as in mortgaging the future?

Sure, why not. I've tasted Bob's recent batch of Reds Kool-Aid and I'm starting to get used to the taste of the diluted strychnine.

What are we talking about here? Hamilton, Cueto and Freel to lock up the '08 NL Central and head into October with Harang, Santana, Cordero, Dunn and Griffey?

Would we have to part with Votto and/or Arroyo?

As long as Bailey and Bruce are off the table.

"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 30, 2007 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What would it take for the Reds

Cueto or Bailey and Votto? More?

I think it would be worth it if Castellini opened up the wallet and signed Johan for an additional 3-4 yrs.

Of course we would all be required to buy a lot more groceries.

by jacob brumfield on Nov 30, 2007 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought I'd heard

that Santana has some sort of no-trade clause and he is requiring that whichever team trades for him also ponies up a multi-year contract to his liking. Anyone else hear that? Or did I just make that up as a defense mechanism?

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Nov 30, 2007 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought

it was that teams wanted to set up a contract with him so they were not trading the farm just for his FA preperation

by jacob brumfield on Nov 30, 2007 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He does

He's got a full NTC; so, much like Dunn, he can name his price for accepting a trade.

One of Bailey/Cueto; two of Votto/Hamilton/EdE; Bob bumps the payroll in '09 to $100M (before you laugh, the Tigers' was over $95M this year), and signs Dunn to a 4 year extension.

Playoff glory for years to come!!!

just....wow.

by sidnancy on Nov 30, 2007 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

This would make quite a bit of sense:

The Twins very good pitching prospect in either Bailey or Cueto;
Votto allows them to trade an overvalued Morneau;
EdE allows them to keep little Nicky Punto (and his 52 OPS+) far, far away from 3B.

The Reds get Santana, and have Santana/Harang/Arroyo/Bailey or Cueto through '11 (or '12, if they pick up the options);
a place to play Hatteberg, and a place for Dunn in '09;
allows Keppinger to play 3B.

Assuming the the Twins don't hold out for that drug-taking, injury-prone Hamilton, I'd say Bob should just open the vault and do it.

just....wow.

by sidnancy on Nov 30, 2007 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Is that the Santana clause?

Tell me you still believe, Slyde. Tell me you still believe.

"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 1, 2007 10:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Cueto, Hamilton, Encarnacion and Freel

The Twins ought to like that right?

by Man Mountain on Nov 30, 2007 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sure, why not?

Hell, throw Votto in too.

Part of me wonders if Cueto is the one that we want to make sure we keep, not Bailey (obviously I'd like to keep them both). They both have high k-rates, but Cueto already has pretty good control. Any minor league junkies want to explain to me why I'm a fool for thinking this?

I'd be willing to trade Hamilton and one of EdE, Votto, or Todd Coffey.

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Nov 30, 2007 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I have said this over and over and over again

sorry if i am boring or repative.

Cueto I think based on his command will be better then Bailey next season. I think Bailey is a better bet over the long hall. That is only because Cueto is 5'11" weighing 174 lbs, and Bailey is 6'3" at 190 lbs, and is still "filling in".

The Dusty path to the World Series!

by justin0070000 on Nov 30, 2007 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't worry, you're not repative

by Man Mountain on Nov 30, 2007 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

not even in the long hall?

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Nov 30, 2007 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not even when all is sad undone

by Man Mountain on Nov 30, 2007 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Are you sure?

I will honestly admit, I'm not sure if he is or not.

Quick! Somebody make a Cincinnati loves Ken Griffey Jr. too! video

by TheC on Nov 30, 2007 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm giving props to Justin..

..for his conservation and brevity.

Most folks would have just gone ahead and used yet another goddamn schwa.

What a waste.

"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 30, 2007 10:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Reptition aids learning:

repativeness is the ability to hire interum managers over and and over and over.......

"It's not savvy. But it's not Mike Stanton." andromache

by Madville on Nov 30, 2007 11:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Upside vs. Fulfillment of Potential

If Homer and Cueto both fully develop as prospects, Homer's going to be the better player. I think it's pretty obvious, however, that Cueto is move polished at this point, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he ended up as the better player.

by Geki on Nov 30, 2007 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I can see that

I've never seen Cueto pitch, so it's hard for me to compare them outright. But I wonder if the fact that Bailey was a first-round pick who signed for a big bonus has given him more publicity and possibly overrated him a bit in comparison to Cueto. Plus the fact that Bailey is 6'4" and Cueto is 5'11" doesn't help Cueto's case either.

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Nov 30, 2007 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd also send Slyde to TwinkieTown

for WeWantMorneau00700.

by Man Mountain on Nov 30, 2007 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd invoke my no trade clause

and then I'd speak bitterly about Man Mountain to the media.

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Nov 30, 2007 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Doubt it takes that much.

With the Twins moving for Delmon Young, they're no longer desperate for outfield prospects. I think either Homer or Cueto with Edwin or Votto or Hamilton beats the Yanks and Sox offers, at least. I'd have to think the Reds are the best team in the NL if they add Santana. Johan-Harang-Arroyo-Bailey/Cueto-Belisle in the rotation, what looks like at least an average bullpen with a real closer at the end (plus more power-arm help on the way), and what should still be an excellent offense.

My guess is Homer/Edwin would get things done, and as risky as it is, I'd offer Johan 7 years/$150 mil on the extension. If it goes sour, I still think he'd be tradeable just because of how dominant he's been over the past several years. Him in the NL along with Harang? Punch our WS ticket right now. If Bob really wants to win and really doesn't care all that much about money, that's the move to make.

by Geki on Nov 30, 2007 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What is risky about trading

unrealized potential for an established star that can help win in '08 ? Not that much. MLB is all about how do we win it NOW.

"It's not savvy. But it's not Mike Stanton." andromache

by Madville on Nov 30, 2007 11:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

From mlbtraderumors

"Santana to the yanks, Cano, Edwin Encarnacion, and Matt Maloney to twins, Ian kennedy and Farnsworth to the reds. The twins get two young position players who can step in and star right now. The yanks get Santana and keep Hughes/Chamberlain. The reds get a young #4 starter and a power arm in the pen that could succeed in the NL central."

Thoughts? Different offers? Potato Salad?

by jch24 on Nov 30, 2007 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

NOTE

This was a comment from a user, not from the site's editors.

by jch24 on Nov 30, 2007 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

a user?

the Farnsworth type of user?

by jacob brumfield on Nov 30, 2007 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

fuck that

by Man Mountain on Nov 30, 2007 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm with you

The post is obviously from a Yanks fan, and one with a loose relationship with reality at that. Thought it would be nice fodder for the fine folks here. :)

by jch24 on Nov 30, 2007 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Farnsy

I think he's a bad fit for Dusty Baker. I suspect Dusty will have little patience for Farnsy's quirks. (Can't pitch more than one inning, can't pitch two days in a row, prone to sudden and unpredictable back problems, and is an all-around weirdo.)

The knock on Farnsy is that he doesn't have the guts to pitch in NY. So he might do better in a smaller city. Maybe even be a closer again. (When he's on his game, his 102 mph fastball is amazing.) But I don't think the Reds need him, now that they have Cordero.

Ian Kennedy, though...I would take him if you can get him. He probably had the best year of any of the young aces the Yanks ran out there last season. He was only drafted last year, so he'll be cheap for awhile.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Nov 30, 2007 5:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I want Farnsworth.....

....tied up in a dark room. Then I'm gonna give Paul Wilson ten minutes alone with him.

REVENGE!

by jacob brumfield on Nov 30, 2007 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Farnsworthless

Many Yankee fans would happily volunteer to help you tie him down.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Nov 30, 2007 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I was at that game

Dear gods, what a beatdown. :)

by jch24 on Nov 30, 2007 11:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Keep Cueto over Bailey?

I don't think you are crazy, Slyde. Bailey may have a little higher upside but from everything I'm reading, not by as much as you would think. I would give up Bailey and 1-2 other talented players for a stopper like Santana. I would like to keep Bruce, though. Of course, Santana is one of the VERY few players I would consider trading Bailey for.

by nighthawk32 on Nov 30, 2007 1:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't trade Bailey for Santana

even if the Red's can lock him up to an extension. For one reason, for a "small market" team like the Red's Santana is a huge risk. I know right now his arm is sound, but what happens if say blows out his shoulder? He returns to be at best league average pitcher, who struggles to make 30 starts a year. If we could get him for say Hamilton, or Votto, or Stubbs, I would say do it. But i don't want to give up a young soon to be stud for a stud.

The Dusty path to the World Series!

by justin0070000 on Nov 30, 2007 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Homer is nowhere near a sure thing.

And even if he hits his peak, it's unlikely he becomes as dominant as Santana -- certainly not within the next couple of years, especially.

I don't want to trade Homer, but he's anything but a sure thing to be an ace and he's definitely more of an injury risk than Santana as well. You don't pass up a shot at the best pitcher in baseball based simply on potential.

If it's payroll keeping you back, that's one thing, but if Bob gives the okay, I think the Reds would have to pull the trigger on that trade.

by Geki on Nov 30, 2007 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think the monster contract of Santana

is scary, especially if they trade the farm to get him. Plus it was a while ago, but I seem to remeber this one time, when the Red's traded for a great centerfielder. He was the best. They got him at a discounted rate, but he couldn't stay healthy and his contract was a hinderence on the franchise for much of his tenure. That is why I am kind of against paying a disportionit salary to one guy compared ot the rest of the team. Johan is dominant, but pitchers are so fragile, if he is hurt, where does that leave Cincinnati?

The Dusty path to the World Series!

by justin0070000 on Dec 1, 2007 2:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Risk

Theoretically a small market team should want to embrace risk and hope for the best.

Also try to take over Australia early for those 2 bonus armies.

Add getting a shot at love with Tila Tequila to the list of things at which I would be horrible.

by Red Menace on Nov 30, 2007 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Again more exceptional and rational

thinking from the man who should be the Red's GM.

"It's not savvy. But it's not Mike Stanton." andromache

by Madville on Nov 30, 2007 11:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed, Geki

I totally agree. We've already seen Homer have some minor injuries in his legs. And he hasn't fully developed all his pitches yet. There is no guarantee he ever will, although I like his work ethic and confidence. However, for Santana, I would trade Baily, EE, and one other good player like Hamilton or Votto. That makes our starting rotation 3-deep in terms of really good pitching, with Cueto as a potential sleeper. We also have Maloney, Belisle, and a few other candidates for the back-end of the rotation, where they should be fine. But Santana, Harang, and Arroyo would be OUTSTANDING in a playoff series. And, with the bullpen much-improved, we could be tough. Plus, we should still have enough offense to score runs. We would still have plenty of outfield depth with Dunn, Griffey, Votto or Hamilton (whichever stayed), Hopper, and Bruce in the wings. There is always a risk in trading for a pitcher but I would have to take this risk.

by nighthawk32 on Nov 30, 2007 1:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'm not sure I'd trade 3 prospects

If only because trading for Santana pretty much means both Griffey and Dunn are gone in 2009 and then the offense would look pretty thin. Any move that would prevent the re-signing of Dunn (or someone comparable) in 2009 means I would want to keep two of Hamilton, Votto, and EdE. You need to get offense from somewhere.

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Nov 30, 2007 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bailey, EE, and Hamilton

For one year of Santana? The only way that trade would make any sense is if Johan were to sign an extension for WAY below market value, and he's already made it clear that he won't. You're better off going after Bedard or Haren, because at least you're getting 2 and 3 years, respectively, before they get their huge paydays. If you can't get these guys to sign for below-market rate, you're better off holding onto the 16 seasons of Bailey, EE and Hamilton and go sign somebody in free agency in 2009 when Dunn and Griffey's money come off the books.

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on Nov 30, 2007 7:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think..

..Arroyo as a third starter is going to strike fear in the hearts of any teams built for October.

Granted, there aren't many if any deep rotations outside the state of Massachusetts but I just want to take this oppotunity to call Arroyo what he is: A #2 starter on a .500 team waiting to become a #3 starter on a contender.

"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 30, 2007 7:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

oh yeah

I forgot that we still have Ryan Freel as ANOTHER outfield option, at this point in time. Go get Santana!

by nighthawk32 on Nov 30, 2007 1:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

For you Nats fans/interested observers

Lastings Milledge and his whack AAA rap game seems to be headed to DC for Brian Schneider and Ryan Church.

by Man Mountain on Nov 30, 2007 2:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

They may lose Church

But Jesus would be top of the depth chart at catcher (no, Moeller's not beating him out). And you can have Jesus without Church, but not Church without Jesus. You got fleeced, Mets! Plus AAA rap is what DC does best.

by Brendanukkah on Nov 30, 2007 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

wonder what this trade does for the Ears

by Man Mountain on Nov 30, 2007 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Contrary to popular belief

Jesus had more saves than Cordero last year.

by jacob brumfield on Nov 30, 2007 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Say what you want about Jesus slugging

but he's willing sacrifice himself when it matters.

by Man Mountain on Nov 30, 2007 2:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Sure,

but what's he done for me lately?

by ken on Nov 30, 2007 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

c'mon ken

Jesus is nails

by Man Mountain on Nov 30, 2007 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He puts his blood and body out there..

..every time.

"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 30, 2007 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They spray the blood of Christ in the locker room

when his team clinches the title. It looks like the rave scene in Blade.

by Brendanukkah on Nov 30, 2007 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Stigmata wins championships.

"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 30, 2007 7:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"Some motherf*cker's always

trying to ice skate uphill."

Possibly the best line in a film ever.

I believe this drunk or sober.

by Man Mountain on Dec 1, 2007 2:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Cormack MCCarthy's 'The Road' is slated

to become a major motion picture in the near future. I can't wait. Maybe the Coen Bros. will do this one too.

"It's not savvy. But it's not Mike Stanton." andromache

by Madville on Dec 1, 2007 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

JC knows how to play the game the righteous way

"It's not savvy. But it's not Mike Stanton." andromache

by Madville on Nov 30, 2007 11:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll do no such thing

I'm coming in spikes high, 'roids raging.

by jch24 on Dec 1, 2007 12:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Another option

If we're gunning for the playoffs next year could be Danny Haren. I know he's on the trade block, and might he come at a cheaper price than Johan (especially considering he's locked down for the next few years?)

Which celebrity are you often confused with? "Brad Pitt"- Adam Dunn

by chesirecat on Nov 30, 2007 3:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Not going to be cheaper than Johan

he's got 3 years, $16.5M left on his current contract (including a $6.75M option in year 3). So, you'd get him for 3 years for $3.5M more than Santana will make this year. His 3 years will cost $37M less than Santana's (assuming he gets $20M per).

As a big A's fan, I also follow AthleticsNation. I suggested a Hamilton/Cueto for Haren trade and got thoroughly rejected based on Hamilton's durability issues. I think Hamilton's got more value than they realize over there.

The face of a child says it all, especially the mouth part

by JJ on Nov 30, 2007 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I read that Haren was on the market and it really

piqued my curiosity. this is the kind of guy we HAVE to go after. im not sure we match up well though. im not willing to give up either homer or cueto for him, and i would imagine either one would be mandatory. after those guys, our starting pitching prospects arent gonna cut it. i would be in for something like hamilton/votto/janish, but i doubt beane would go for it.

damn, haren would be perfect for this team.

at least this isnt pittsburgh

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 30, 2007 9:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

RE: Santana

For what it's worth, Dayn Perry (of Fox Sports and Baseball Prospectus) implies the existence of some Santana trade rumors and then goes right ahead and writes an entire column about those rumors and [deep sigh] the Reds are not among the five teams mentioned as possible rumored Santana suitors. Nor are the Reds among Perry's two bonus speculative possibilities.

And [deep sigh] Perry makes no mention of a "mystery team."

(Now, Perry's article is evidently at least two days old so perhaps Shag, Scoob and the gang at MLBTradeRumors.com just started tracking this mystery team within the past 48 hours.)

"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 30, 2007 10:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I can't see it

The Reds might have the prospects, but I don't think they have the money. The Mets have the money, but they don't have the prospects. And I have my doubts about whether the Red Sox are serious. I think they're just trying to drive the price up for the Yankees.

I think Santana's going to the Yankees or staying put.

The Yankees need Santana, especially if Pettitte retires. But getting Santana will likely mean giving up Phil Phranchise. And Melky Cabrera. At the beginning of the season, we were wondering why anyone would ever trade with the Twins, because they always seem to get the better end of the deal. :-/

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Dec 1, 2007 12:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Now...

we've got it all together for a brand new show
we signed Franky Cordoba and away we go!!!!
Now Johan is a-hauntin' like a spooky ghost.
And Dusty's gonna use him like he does the most,

Hey! Come on get involved til the Mystery Team is solved.
Hang around for the Newbie Two.
Hey! Come on get involved til the Mystery Team is solved.
Hang around for the Newbie Two.

Hey, we just can't fail....Newbie Two!!!

by Man Mountain on Dec 1, 2007 2:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

CLAPCLAPCLAPCLAP

clapclapclapclap. Awesome, but whats the newbie two.

by The Crushinator on Dec 1, 2007 9:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My guess is that...

..MM is calling Santana the "Newbie Two." As in, the the Reds rotation would be:

1. The established ace of NL flyover coutry, Bronson Arroyo.

2. The newly acquired Johann Santana.

Cutie-pie rock star, Bronson Arroyo.
Badass Texass deer hunter an former owner of Andromahe's allime favorite mullett, Homer Bailey.
That other guy.

"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 1, 2007 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"Andromahe"

damn.

PS: I disown the original post. That was lame.

by Man Mountain on Dec 1, 2007 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"allime"

All-lime?

Also, one rotation, two Arroyos. My head is swimming at the prospect.

by Brendanukkah on Dec 1, 2007 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, my fingers and I have had quite a day.

"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 1, 2007 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I dunno, Man..

..I'm certain that I've posted my share of lame-ass shit at Red Reporter, but Yankovick-ing the Scooby-Doo theme song?

I think an apology might be in order ;)

"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 1, 2007 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm also certain

by Man Mountain on Dec 1, 2007 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

mmmmMMMMWAH!!!

Kisses, Man Mountain.

"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 1, 2007 7:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It sort of sounds like what one would say...

if trying to cough out "and ron mahay" under one's breath.

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Dec 5, 2007 5:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

Anybody else following this Les-Miles-to-Michigan clusterfuck?

-ESPN reports Miles to Michigan is a done deal and will be announced Monday or Tuesday.
-ESPN retracts, press conference where Miles is expected to announce that he has signed an extension at LSU.
-ESPN televises press conference where Miles issues a standard non-denial denial, no extension is even mentioned, and LSU's A.D. ends the conference by saying (direct quote), "What he said," when asked if he'll be taking questions.

What a debacle. Although, as a Michigan fan and a Toledo alum, I'm intrigued by the possibility of Gary Pinkel as Michigan's coach. It was revealed that he's on the short list between steps 2 and 3 in the clusterfuck.

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on Dec 1, 2007 2:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Michigan still has a football team?

"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Dec 1, 2007 5:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not big into the distraction excuse

but it's becoming clear that Leslie's and especially Pellini's intrigues the last two weeks have taken a major toll on the preparation for Arkansas and Tennessee. It's been really unprofessional all the way around. Michigan might dodge a bullet.

(Though having Jon Tenuta might be nice)

by Man Mountain on Dec 1, 2007 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Miles

I really don't understand the criticism he gets. His 2 losses this season have been unequivocally on the shoulders of Matt Flynn. In the Kentucky game, he was 17 of 35 (less than 50%) for one hundred fuck thirty yards. When they're not asking you to throw it any further than 8 yards downfield, and you still can't complete more than half your passes, you lost them the game. Period. Against Arkansas, he was 22 of 47 (well under 50%) for 209. He averaged less than 10 yars a completion, and still threw 25 incomplete passes. Those are on Flynn.

On the other hand, there's no way they win the Florida game without Miles's brass balls. Go look at the drive charts and tell me which 4th down you'd have kicked on. In the Auburn game, he took one shot at the end zone when he had plenty of time left. The FG was far from a sure thing there, as it was a 39-yarder. That would have been David's long for the season, and he was 0/3 on anything longer.

He's a gambler, but he's a smart gambler.

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on Dec 1, 2007 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That said,

I'm not ENTIRELY sold on Miles. Objectively, I'm no more happy with him than I would be with Gary Pinkel (subjectively, I'm rooting for Pinkel). The big problem is that if it's not Miles, there's a real good chance we're looking at Mike DeBord or Kirk Ferentz as the next coach. I'd rather gamble at a national championship than hire that guaranteed mediocrity.

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on Dec 1, 2007 7:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

See?

Big. Brass. Balls.

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on Dec 1, 2007 7:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My thoughts

First of all you're spot on about Flynn. I've been saying the same thing since the Kentucky game. He's just not accurate downfield. The Arkansas game was especially atrocious, and it came out the week after that Flynn went into that game with an arm injury. I couldn't believe Gary Danielson was suggesting that there were plays tonight that LSU went conservative because they didn't trust Perrilloux to throw it down field. I can think of very few throws I wouldn't trust Perri to make more than Flynn. RP has a cannon and was fine with his passes before he lacerated his finger tonight. RP had plenty of time at QB in the first half this season (even played quite well in a pressure packed game against Florida), but all of a sudden Miles/Crowton started acting like he was some dude who just walked in off the street.
I didn't mind the 4th down gambles against Florida at all. They had the matchups they wanted and trusted the talent to make the plays. Easterbrook had a column a year ago about the next revolution in football being a team thinking of an offensive possession in terms of all 4 downs available. Les does that.
His clock management has been questioned the last few years. He had pretty clear flubs against Kentucky, Auburn, Ole Miss and Arkansas.
The play-calling gets weird in the Red Zone. I mean weird enough that I can't explain how it's weird because it's something different every game. A lot of it revolves around Jacob Hester. Hester is constantly misused inside the 20. I would put this on Crowton, but Les has to have noticed this. And if he hasn't, then that's on him. There hasn't been a coherent offensive plan, but at the same time teams are doing well keying off of tell-tale formations. LSU lost the game to Arkansas in the first two possessions of the game, when they got only field goals instead of touchdowns. Miles' teams this year and last have tended to leave points on the board in the first half.
The last two weeks have been an absolute mess. It would have been crazy no matter what, but Les made it worse by trying to play it both ways with the rumors. He claimed he wasn't thinking about anything but the games in front of him, but off the field he and his staff were running around talking to agents and other programs. To come out all coy this morning and blame this circus on the media is total horseshit. He got a new contract last night.
His comments about the Pac-10 at the beginning of the year, about Saban at Alabama, and especially about being undefeated in regulation were stupid and lowering. Okay, your team can't score a 2-pt conversion from 2.5 yards out. Twice. With a number 1 ranking on the line. Awesome.
Michigan should probably go get Brian Kelly and get back to beating OSU every so often.

by Man Mountain on Dec 2, 2007 2:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs