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Report: Reds Emerge as front Runner for Cordero

Reds_tiny by MixFMKyle on

From Ken Rosenthal:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7480854

The Cincinnati Reds, moving toward the first big acquisition of the Dusty Baker era, are in serious talks with free-agent closer Francisco Cordero, major-league sources say.

Cordero is still talking to three clubs, but it is believed that the Reds have emerged as the front-runner over the Brewers and an unidentified third team.

Update [2007-11-23 17:30:8 by boobs]: Looks like it's official. link

Star-divide

The Brewers, who are on the verge of losing setup man Scott Linebrink to the White Sox, offered Cordero a four-year, $42 million contract, sources say.

Cordero, 32, would fill a major void for the Reds, who last season converted only 54.8 percent of their save opportunities, the lowest percentage in the National League.

By signing Cordero, the Reds could shift right-hander David Weathers back to a setup role. Weathers, 38, performed admirably as a fill-in closer last season, converting 33 of 39 save chances.

Cordero was 44-for-51 for the Brewers while going 0-4 with a 2.98 ERA and striking out 86 in 63 1/3 innings. He made the All-Star team for the second time in his career.

Very interesting.  Big contracts for closers can always be risky, but I see good things with Burton and Weathers in set-up and Cordero closing.  We'd have two legit power arms in Burton and Cordero which could be a plus.

Here is a take from MLB Trade Rumors

According to Rosenthal, the Reds have emerged as front runners. Competing are the Brewers and a mystery team, possibly the Yankees, who expressed interest in Cordero if Mariano Rivera bolted town. The closer has since returned, though, likely eliminating the Yankees from consideration. The Astros are also believed to be interested in Cordero, though the same can be said for about 80 percent of the free agent market.

This would move David Weathers back to a setup role, where he would fit in well. The Reds bullpen would still be weak, but at least they'd improve on their league-worst 54.8 percent save conversion rate.

It appears that the Reds front office believes the team can contend in the next two years. Why else give big money (and forfeit a second round pick) for a big-name closer? The Reds have considerable young talent in Joey Votto, Josh Hamilton, Jay Bruce, Brandon Phillips, and Edwin Encarnacion, in addition to Ken Griffey Jr. and Adam Dunn.

Combined with Scott Hatteberg, who had an effective year in limited duty, the Reds might actually have a logjam of sorts in the outfield and first base. Could they possibly move some of the excess for some pitching help? Adding another bullpen arm or a starter to go along with Aaron Harang, Bronson Arroyo, and Homer Bailey could be the keys to the Reds contention.

You gotta agree a lot with what is said.

Thoughts anyone?

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BOO!
Not a fan of spending +10mil for a closer.

Only way I am cool with this is if our payroll takes a signifacant jump.  If Cordero is the reason we can't lock Dunn up long term, I will poop my pants.

by jacob brumfield on Nov 23, 2007 1:27 PM EST reply actions  

Your point is valid
But, how many times did we have the lead in the 6th,7th,or 8th innings last year and lose it because of the bullpen being so bad?

If this guy can take our save percentage from 55 percent to 85 percent, he would be well worth the money, IMO.

Find me on MySpace- http://www.myspace.com/mixfmkyle

by MixFMKyle on Nov 23, 2007 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed
Fixing the closer position strengthens the 7-8 with Weathers and Burton.  But do we need to dedicate this much of our payroll to the situation??  Burton is not far from closer material, and we could spread the money out to address fixing the bullpen as a whole, not just the 9th.

by jacob brumfield on Nov 23, 2007 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd say yes
Because this is the area where we lost most of our games last year.  We know this team is going to produce runs.  We have to be able to hold the leads.
Find me on MySpace- http://www.myspace.com/mixfmkyle

by MixFMKyle on Nov 23, 2007 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

but at what cost?
making him our highest paid player for only throwing 100 some innings?  Too steep for me, I would rather develop the talent or find a bargain arm.

by jacob brumfield on Nov 23, 2007 1:53 PM EST reply actions  

100 IP?
He's probably going to throw about 70 innings next year.

Then again, the Reds bullpen this decade has pretty much been patterned around the "develop talent and find bargain arms" mold.

If the Reds are going to spend $45 million/4 years on a pitcher, would you prefer Cordero or the best available free agent starter who will sign for that amount?

by LooseCannon on Nov 23, 2007 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd prefer Cordero over Silva or Lohse
but the FA market this year should be passed up altogether

by jacob brumfield on Nov 23, 2007 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

No!!!
Burton is cheaper and is the future! This would be a very bad move for the reds
Killer Tucans all the way!!!

by Zach K on Nov 23, 2007 2:01 PM EST reply actions  

Burton
I want to see him this year as the 8th inning guy. Let him transition into that closer role in 2-3 seasons. If, and I say if, he is successful you can have Weathers for the 7th, Burton the eighth, and Cordero to close it out. Not bad, especially when you think about the last two seasons.
Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on Nov 24, 2007 8:46 AM EST up reply actions  

hmm
Burton may be the future.

However, I can't see this team going into the season with another "Hopefully this works out" plan for closing games. With Cordero, you overpay, but you know you have a closer. End of story. With Burton, you keep your fingers crossed and hopefully it works out.

If their strategery is to spend money on bullpen and trade for starting pitching, then I think it is one that is sound.

Cordero may be expensive, but at least he's expensive and good. Signing a SP the likes of Kyle Lohse for $12mil per year is untenable.

The NL Central is so winnable next year, my manboobs hurt.

by bobestes on Nov 23, 2007 2:27 PM EST reply actions  

Cordero would be a good fit
but only for 2 years. Anything over 2 years is very risky - hell even 2 years is risky.
We lost way way too many games because we had no 8th inning set up man and although, we had a successful closer with Stormy, this team as it is starting to shake out could be pretty exciting with Cordero, Burton,Weather and Coutalingus at the end of the game (7,8 & 9). If the contract length is right go for him.
"You don't invent winning" Sparky Anderson

by Madville on Nov 23, 2007 2:28 PM EST reply actions  

It won't be right
It just won't be. To get Cordero, they'll have to give him 4 years, end of story.

Cordero is a classic signing where you hold your nose, sign that contract, and pray for the best.

He'll probably not live up to the contract the last year or two, but if they make the playoffs next year, it will have been a good deal. This deal is basically a big roll of the dice that we're ready to go in 2008.

Sounds like Jay Bruce up in June is a foregone conclusion. Gotta mind that service time. Jay Bruce in Cincinnati makes me happy.

by bobestes on Nov 23, 2007 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Also
I see a big difference in overpaying for someone like Eric Milton, who you have a pretty good idea will be bad, and overpaying for someone like Cordero, who you know will fill your most glaring need.

Overpaying always sucks, but some overpaying is better than others, I guess.

by bobestes on Nov 23, 2007 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

He's flippable
Let's say Cordero has two good seasons followed by a bit of a down year.  It's not out of the realm of possibility that a pitcher like Burton or Bray may be deemed closer material by that point and Cordero can be traded to a team that overvalues closers.

by LooseCannon on Nov 23, 2007 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow... and, hmmmm.
I like the idea of getting a quality closer and having a back end of the bullpen that may actually look pretty good - Burton, Weathers, Cordero.

But, if he signs with us, that likely means he's turning down 4 years at $42 million to stay where he already is.  So, either he wants a bigger, better contract, or he really hated Milwaukee.  Seeing how the Brewers had a pretty nice year and seem like a decent team, I would have to think the Reds will need to give him a long term deal for a lot of money - more than Harang?

Well.. I guess you have to spend big these days - and, thank jeebus its not my money.  If nothing else, at least its fun to see the Reds mentioned somewhere this winter.  

Quick! Somebody make a Cincinnati loves Ken Griffey Jr. too! video

by TheC on Nov 23, 2007 3:01 PM EST reply actions  

As I said a week or so ago...
Signing Cordero is not a smart move, but it is a move I want to happen. If Bob's really devoted to winning, and he seems to be, I think we need to stop acting like the Reds are so restricted by payroll. Winning breeds money and money certainly helps to breed winning. We're not winning now, so we might as well work the other way around and spend some money to help win, not wait until we win to spend money. Baseball finances are treated like a state secret by most teams because most owners like to pull in a profit on their teams. If Bob just wants a winner, I think the Reds could sustain an $85-$90 million payroll -- and that's without filling the stadium every game. Baseball is a cash cow at this point, and if my impressions of Bob are correct, he's happy to spend money if he thinks it'll build a winner.

Sign Cordero and deal some of the offensive excess for a solid starter and decent reliever, and we'll have a good team.

C Ross/Valentin
1B Votto/Hatteberg/Cantu
2B Phillips
SS Gonzalez/Keppinger
3B Encarnacion
LF Dunn
CF Hamilton/Bruce/Hopper/Freel
RF Griffey

Personally, I'd look to move Hamilton for one of the younger starters on the market. There are tons of teams looking for a CF this offseason, and the free agent market won't fill all those holes. Atlanta (Joey Devine, Tommy Hanson, Jordan Schafer?), the White Sox (John Danks and Gio Gonzalez?), Texas (Salty would be an interesting target), the Pirates (Snell and Gorzelanny have been rumored to be available for a bat), Minnesota (Garza, a few other nice young pitching prospects), San Francisco, San Diego, and perhaps even the Yankees could all give us a good return. I think we should be able to pick up a solid reliever for Freel and/or Hatteberg as well, and given the Cabrera/Garland trade, perhaps even a decent starter for Gonzalez. We have tons of trading chips, and though Krivsky isn't the optimal guy that I'd entrust with them, we could very easily be the favorite in the NL Central come next season with just a couple of moves.

by Geki on Nov 23, 2007 3:10 PM EST reply actions  

Back End First
I like the idea of building a bullpen from its closer--supposedly the strongest pitcher on the team--and filling in from there. Weathers was a good closer, but he's a setup guy. Not having him in the 8th inning this year really cost us a lot. Cordero in the 9th pushes Weathers back to the 8th, and allows Burton to pitch the 7th as he preps to become the primary setup guy after Weathers' contract expires. I like how this would change the build of the bullpen by putting the best pitchers in their right spots.

The contract makes me a bit nervous, but this is the most direct route to improve pitching, especially the bullpen. The middle relievers available do not impress. I also think there are options for SP, with Harang, Arroyo and Bailey as the cornerstones. I see Belisle getting a shot as the 4th guy, unless they trade for an Arroyo-esque middle of the rotation guy.  

by jamesp50014 on Nov 23, 2007 3:40 PM EST reply actions  

I'd like to see
a strong bullpen 7 men deep and a young rotation with Bailey, Cueto, and Maloney as 3, 4, 5.  Cordero, Burton, Weathers, Bray, Pelland, Roenicke, and perhaps Kerry Wood if the Reds can sign him.

I might not do any major trades unless it was to move Griffey for a catcher.  I don't think the Reds have the depth after 2008 to allow them to trade any of their young players.

by Blue on Nov 23, 2007 3:44 PM EST reply actions  

Yea
This is the type of move I've expected from the Reds this offseason.
  1.  It shows they're serious.  I think it also shows that Fay's $75M budget WAG was just that - a guess, and a poor one at that.
  2.  It's overspending, but as opposed to overspending for mediocrity, it's overspending for someone that's pretty good.
  3.  I know it isn't "Moneyball" to throw that kind of money at a closer, but so what?  It's not my money.
  4.  As noted upthread, if the plan is to buy bullpen arms and trade for starters, might as well buy the best bullpen arm available.  But as also noted, now they have to follow through and put together a decent package for a good #2 type pitcher.  Unfortunately, that may mean "Goodbye Joey and Josh", which I don't like; however, you have to give up quality to get it.
  5.  It's a risk (any LTC to a pitcher is), but I'd much rather give 4 years to an established good arm than to someone with one or 2 good years.  Or 2 years to a 40 year old LOOGY again and again and again.
just....wow.

by sidnancy on Nov 23, 2007 4:30 PM EST reply actions  

Whoa!
"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 23, 2007 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

So, I'm scrolling through the posts...
I the Reds signed Cordero. Is that what makes me post? No. It's the giant Joey looking at me with "Whoa".

Well played Alan. Very nice.

by sledridge on Nov 23, 2007 9:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Damn - I can live w/4yrs.
Well Alan, it appears that the taco has been redeemed, on a Friday no less! (no racist pun intended).

Now if we can just move Jr. before his leg or arm actually falls off of his body....

And next on the list is a decent #3 0r #4 level pitcher for the rotation...The 2008 Reds could be a contender. Interesting!

"You don't invent winning" Sparky Anderson

by Madville on Nov 23, 2007 5:08 PM EST reply actions  

im with most of the people here
i like the move. it isn't savvy, but our bullpen just got a lot better. it's a much better plan than krivsky's old one (signing or trading for a dozen or so known losers and hoping one will stick.) I'd much rather have FranCor than the sum of joe mays, sunny kim, ryan franklin, jason johnson, esteban yan, rheal cormier and scott schoenweis.
Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Nov 23, 2007 5:18 PM EST reply actions  

It's definitely NOT savvy
but the move does improve the team for next season. And the Reds definitely overpaid, but while I think the team will regret this deal in years 3-4 of the contract, its not as bad as the Eric Milton debacle.

by cesarhernandez on Nov 23, 2007 5:24 PM EST reply actions  

difference
Milton was overpaid, knowing that he'd suck

Cordero is overpaid, but he fills a gaping hole in next year's team.

by bobestes on Nov 23, 2007 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

We did what?
The deal, which is pending a physical, is the largest four-year contract ever given to a closer.

The Reds, seriously? I'm kinda shocked right now.

"Screw it. We've got bigger problems than a butter shortage."

by Ash on Nov 23, 2007 5:35 PM EST reply actions  

same feeling
kinda like the nerd shoving the bully down and spitting in his face

by jacob brumfield on Nov 23, 2007 6:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I held my forehead
when I read about this...but the more I think about it, I like it.

Now about that first base problem... :)

"I'd walk through hell in a gasoline suit to play baseball" - Pete Rose

by Officer Dibble on Nov 23, 2007 5:35 PM EST reply actions  

Holy crap
Well, if signing Dusty Baker wasn't a big enough signal for you, this spells it out in bigger letters: the Reds are serious.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Nov 23, 2007 5:46 PM EST reply actions  

Did you hear that?
All you "can't wait until 2009 fans?"

 

by jacob brumfield on Nov 23, 2007 6:14 PM EST up reply actions  

heck yeah
we will have a shot in 08 baby!!
"Herein is love, not that we loved God but that He loved us" -1 John 4:10

by shortstopv2 on Nov 24, 2007 3:44 AM EST up reply actions  

I couldn't post on Nuxhall's diary
I don't know why, but there wasn't a "comment box".     One of the first pieces of news I received since I returned from China(3 hours ago), was that Joe had died.  I remember being worried last week when I read he was going to have surgery to receive a pace maker, he seemed too weak for that.  Joe Nuxhall is all that is good about baseball.  I remember in 2004 thinking it was time for him to retire, but after he left, especially this year with the "brillancy" that replaced him, I gained a special appreciation for him.  I missed his balance.  While Marty is explaining the failures of the organization, and Jeff is telling you how a slider works, and tHom is telling you how to equate rocket science, biology and baseball, Joe just told you about the game.  He was very much a Cincinnati kinda guy.  He was simple and polite.  I am a recent Hamilton High graduate.  He came to my high school twice while I was there.  The first time was at a basketball game, he had his high school basketball number retired.  The other time he "coached" a cops V teachers game for deaf charity.  The sign language teacher called him, and the only thing they needed to know was the date and time, in case he had a prior engagement.  There were no appearance fee's, no riders, nothing, just Joe.  Cincinnati lost it's most popular man.  
The Dusty path to the World Series!

by justin0070000 on Nov 23, 2007 6:04 PM EST reply actions  

The post is probably just too old
Once a thread reaches a certain age, you can't post to it anymore.  Many blogs do this, as an anti-spam measure.  It keeps spammers from sneaking their messages in after everyone's moved on.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Nov 23, 2007 6:10 PM EST up reply actions  

JD,
If there is any way my post about Nuxhall can be added to his diary I would be most appreciative.  
The Dusty path to the World Series!

by justin0070000 on Nov 23, 2007 6:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Done
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. --Oscar Wilde

by JD Arney on Nov 23, 2007 10:41 PM EST up reply actions  

wow that post was poorly written
even by my standards.  Goddamn jet-lag
The Dusty path to the World Series!

by justin0070000 on Nov 24, 2007 1:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Wow.
I was not expecting this.

The objective analytical part of me hates throwing that kind of money over that many years to a guy who's going to throw less than 80 innings a season.  Bullpen arms are not difficult to find, and I think we have one (Burton) who could fill the closer role very well for the next 6 years.

On the other hand, the fan in me is thinking; what the hell?  If you're going to overpay, at least overpay the best guy available who fills a glaring need on your team.  The offense is already there.  If Homer has a good season behind Harang and Arroyo, you have the makings of a nice rotation.  Now, you have Cordero-Burton-Weathers at the back end of the bullpen.  Put that in the worst division in baseball, and....

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on Nov 23, 2007 6:47 PM EST reply actions  

Down goes LSU! Down goes LSU!
Off-topic of course, but all Buckeye fans must now rejoice! Now that the evil SEC team is out of the way with the triple-OT loss to Arkansas, OSU just needs one of two things to happen to get back into the title game:
  1. West Virginia loses to UConn or Pitt
  2. Winner of Kansas-Missouri loses to (likely) Oklahoma in Big 12 title game.
The second scenario is the more likely, I think.

by cesarhernandez on Nov 23, 2007 7:24 PM EST reply actions  

$46M is a lot of money,
but Cordero will be a useful player and fills a real need on the team.  And $11.5M per year is only a little over market rate for a good closer.  I understand the Brewers were offering $10.5M.  I wonder why Cordero jumped ship for a relatively small raise?  Was he unhappy in Milwaukee?

To me this looks not to be an obvious mistake immediately, which qualifies it as one of Krivsky's better decisions.

I wonder if a salary dump will have to come now?  Or did Krivsky get an OK to increase the roster budget?

Rock Chalk Talk for pretty good KU baseball coverage

by James Quinn on Nov 23, 2007 8:08 PM EST reply actions  

Other things that could be done with $46 million
  1.  Sign Adam Dunn to a 3-year contract extension.
  2.  Pay for one and a half seasons of A-Rod.
  3.  Pay for two seasons of Johan Santana.
  4.  Pay for six seasons of Eric Milton.
  5.  Buy 46 million McDonald's hamburgers.
At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on Nov 23, 2007 8:15 PM EST reply actions  

To be clear...
I do not know whether I like this move or not, because I don't know what the payroll target is.  If the Reds are going to be payroll constrained (and therefore unable to keep people like Dunn and Phillips because of it), I don't like it.  If they are going to be able to spend more, I guess I like it, although I would bet he will be closer to David Weathers than Trevor Hoffman in the latter part of his career.
At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on Nov 23, 2007 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes
Since I've been the primary opponent to spending big on a reliever here, I'll say that this move doesn't excite me from a roster perspective.  However, I'm happy they got someone like Cordero because I think he's a very good pitcher.  The bullpen is absolutely upgraded with his presence, and barring a catastrophic injury, he should fill the closer role well for at least the next 2 years.

That being said, by my calculations, the Reds are on the hook for at least $45+ million for 2009 already, and that only covers Harang ($11m), Arroyo ($9.5m), Cordero ($11.5m-ish), Gonzalez ($5.4m), Freel ($4m), and Griffey (min. $4m buyout).  BP will likely be moving into the $4-5m range at that point, though I think EdE is the only other major arb eligible player at that point.  The good news is that there is a good amount of young talent to offset some of the cost, but even still it looks like the Reds might actually be serious about spending money for once.  Either that or Dunn and Griffey are gone in 2009 and are replaced by Bruce and another cheap option.

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Nov 23, 2007 9:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll add my voice
It shouldn't come as a surprise that this is not the way I'd do things. That's not to say it can't work out well (wow there are a lot of negatives in my sentences today). If nothing else it improves the Reds for next year and it's easy to get swept up in the excitement of that.

Now that we've got Cordero under control for his age 33-36 seasons I'm wondering what to expect. He had surgery on his shoulder back in 98 and lost 2001 to stress fractures in his lower back. Here's hoping he stays healthy.

Pecota lists the following as his top 5 comps. Here's how they did from age 33-36.

1. Roberto Hernandez
age   IP   ERA+
33   71.3  118
34   73.3  162
35   73.3  154
36   67.7  117
He pitched last year at age 42. I'd take this.

2. Eric Plunk
age   IP   ERA+
33   65.7  100  
34   72.7  105
35   75.3   90
Age 35 was his last season. This would be bad.

3. Jason Isringhausen
age   IP   ERA+
33   58.7  125
34   65.3  177
That's through 2007.

4. Don Aase
age   IP   ERA+
33   46.7   96
34   59.3   83
35   38.0   74
Done after 35. This is the worst case scenario.

5. Jose Mesa
age   IP   ERA+
33   68.7  101
34   80.7   85
35   69.3  183
36   75.7  130
Pretty solid. He didn't pitch well in 2007, but we was 41.

Other notable comps include Mike Williams, Todd Jones and Arthur Rhodes.

For those of you who know what MORP is... you don't want to know what Cordero's MORP is for these years.

Add getting a shot at love with Tila Tequila to the list of things at which I would be horrible.

by Red Menace on Nov 23, 2007 11:08 PM EST up reply actions  

ooh! Is it Malue Over Replacement Pitcher?
Malue's a word, right?

it means....I mean, it's too complicated to define.

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Nov 24, 2007 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

id have to go with 5
mmmmm im loving it............

of course only until i recall parts of that super-size me movie

"Herein is love, not that we loved God but that He loved us" -1 John 4:10

by shortstopv2 on Nov 24, 2007 3:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Well put
I would love to have NO.3, it wouldn't make much sense because even with Harang and Santana the reds would not be a very good team, though I think they would have a shot at a winning season atleast. If the Reds got Roy Halladay he alone would clinch us the World Series.
Killer Tucans all the way!!!

by Zach K on Nov 24, 2007 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Um, Zach?
Am I missing somehing?

Assuming that Cordero turns out like Izzy, if they had Santana and Harang as a 1-2 punch in heir rotation, they would beat the ass out of the Yank Sox in next year's World Serious.

Pardon me while I drool over he possibility of adding Santana to the offensive potential of our team.  

One thing's for sure...he wouldn't be missing Morneau for long.

"I'd walk through hell in a gasoline suit to play baseball" - Pete Rose

by Officer Dibble on Nov 24, 2007 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm on that boat with you, Paul
I'm not sure if I like the signing or not. It's funny, Yank fans would be cheering, not worried about what this means for the rest of the roster.

Just proves we are the smarter fans.

by sledridge on Nov 23, 2007 9:30 PM EST reply actions  

i think
that this deal signifies that bob is loosening the purse strings, and that's why I like the deal. i kinda dont think it's going to hamstring us. Fay could have gotten things mixed up, as he does, but here's what he said:

Negotiating with Cordero would seem to say the Reds have money to spend on free agents - at least on the right ones.

"I'll let you make that assumption," Krivsky said. "When you look at the closers on the market, he'd be one of the best. But it takes two sides to get a deal done."

It just makes me think that wayne isn't on a real tight leash when it comes to spending.

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Nov 23, 2007 9:42 PM EST up reply actions  

your pal Trent
seems to agree with you.  
Cordero would be a fantastic addition. It would also show that all of those who have an imaginary salary cap for the Reds payroll are wrong. Bob Castellini looks like he'll spend what he needs to spend.

Why, that almost sounds like a dig at Fay...

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Nov 23, 2007 10:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I like it..
but perhaps only because I have lowered expectations..

It's not savvy. But it's not Mike Stanton.

Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Nov 23, 2007 9:50 PM EST reply actions  

Are you studying marketing in college?
It's not savvy.  But it's not Mike Stanton.

That's catchy.  You've got a knack.  You should ask the Reds for a job.

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Nov 23, 2007 10:18 PM EST up reply actions  

The Reds should give me a job.
And then I could be like a ninja of sabremetrics and sustainability - sneaking balls-in-play reports into the front office, graffiting the names of minor league pitchers with good k/9s, replacing incandescent lightbulbs with fluorescents, changing the visitor clubhouse to low-flow showerheads.
Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Nov 24, 2007 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

low-flow showerheads
are the worst things ever.  You could paint the locker rooms pink like Iowa football did.

by buckeye22fox on Nov 24, 2007 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah and go with
The waterless, flushless toilets.
At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on Nov 24, 2007 8:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Iowa pink
To get Northwestern ready for their big game with Iowa, then coach Gary Barnett had the NU home locker room painted pink the week before the game, so they practiced and then came into a pink locker room all week.  It worked!
Quick! Somebody make a Cincinnati loves Ken Griffey Jr. too! video

by TheC on Nov 24, 2007 8:12 PM EST up reply actions  

don't forget
individual carbon footprint reports for each player.  That's the next wave of sabermetrics.
I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Nov 24, 2007 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that is a much better slogan
Than "C you there."

It should be the 2008 slogan.

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on Nov 24, 2007 8:03 PM EST up reply actions  

No
Cordero is a decent but not great closer. Low end of Top 15. I think in a couple years this will look terrible.

by BB on Nov 23, 2007 10:51 PM EST reply actions  

When it comes to a closer BB, it is
one year at a time. I said earlier that I'd wished for a 2 year deal. Bob could have offered 25 - 28M for 2 years but it probably wouldn't have happened. If the Reds can contend, get to the plays off in o8 and 09 this deal could look pretty good.
"Sports do not build character. They reveal it." Matthew Campbell

by Madville on Nov 24, 2007 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

More
Cordero: 6.55 ERA away from Milwaukee last season

by BB on Nov 23, 2007 10:58 PM EST reply actions  

If this is the "big offseason move"
I will already pick the reds to finish last in the NL Central.
  1. Too much money for a slightly above average pitcher who is streaky as well
  2. It takes more than 2 good pitchers in a bullpen{Burton and FC} to have even an average bullpen
 Question: Will the reds have enough money to get a decent starter and a good left hand arm in the pen?
Killer Tucans all the way!!!

by Zach K on Nov 24, 2007 12:16 AM EST reply actions  

its not about money...
the only starter I would entertain signing to a contract for next season is Bartolo Colon, and there are no good left-handed arms available.  IMO, Eddie Guardado is the best one available.

The Cubs might non-tender Mark Prior, in which case I would like to sign him as a starter, but there's really not much out there.

by Blue on Nov 24, 2007 12:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Why
haven't we heard more noise about Colon? From anyone, I mean.

I would think that he's pretty attractive, if healthy.

"I'd walk through hell in a gasoline suit to play baseball" - Pete Rose

by Officer Dibble on Nov 24, 2007 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Interesting ringtone concept
"Sports do not build character. They reveal it." Matthew Campbell

by Madville on Nov 24, 2007 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Super Colon Blow
Ugh.  He sucks.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Nov 24, 2007 6:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Ring
The Reds are winning a ring this year...
...and this one belongs to the Reds!

by WestChesterReds on Nov 24, 2007 12:31 AM EST reply actions  

I don't like this signing
Now the Red's can be expensive and lose.  I think this singing is lazy.  They could have found an affective guy, who has a good k/9, k/bb, and bb/9, who isn't a "closer" for less money.  Corredero was the biggest name out there.  It doesn't speak well for the future.  I am not saying it won't help for next season.  Having Burton for the 7th, Weathers for the 8th, and Corrdero for the 9th will be great.  He also blew 7 saves in 51 chances.  That is an 86% conversion rate.  Weathers converted 33 out of 39 chances for an 84% conversion rate.  Corrdero does have good perhiphals.  They do not show him in decline.  But in the end he is a good closer, but hardly elite.  I do have a feeling the Red's will regret this when he is an $11M+ long reliever.
The Dusty path to the World Series!

by justin0070000 on Nov 24, 2007 1:34 AM EST reply actions  

Corredero
this is my favorite justin spelling ever
Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Nov 24, 2007 1:40 AM EST up reply actions  

jet lag
has made me espcially special.  Nothing like 21 hours from hotel to apartment and about 16 of which are spent in the air.  
The Dusty path to the World Series!

by justin0070000 on Nov 24, 2007 2:02 AM EST up reply actions  

I see what you're saying....
but you can't simply compare Cordero's save rate to Weathers's, because we're not replacing Weathers with Cordero.  Stormy's still here.  The big problems in the bullpen last year were the 8th inning until Burton emerged, and the 7th inning afterward.  Now, you move Burton and Weathers back an inning, and you eliminate a lot of those problems.  Compare Cordero's save rate to Reds' relievers other than Weathers and Burton.  You might like it a little better.

Of course, save percentage is a stupid stat anyway.  Joe Borowski's save pct. last year was 85%.  Jared Burton's was 0%.  One of these guys was an excellent reliever last season, one was a very, very shitty reliever last season.

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on Nov 24, 2007 10:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Not Needed......
Weathers converted 85% of his saves (compared to Cordero's 86%) for a fifth of the price.  Yes, Cordero is a more dominant statistically, and it sure beats giving that money to Chan Ho Park, but that is $46 million less the team could spend on a pitcher in a role that the team needs filled.  The Reds really don't need a relief ace (and it wasn't the reason the team lost 90 games last year).  They need starters and a few middle inning and setup relievers.  $46 million over four years ($11.5 million/year) for what we already have and currently paying $2.3 million/year.  Does it even occur to them that we are not the New York Yankees?  How about a starting pitcher, or a relief pitcher that is not going to cost us as much as a good starter?

by tonywf on Nov 24, 2007 1:51 AM EST reply actions  

i concur
they could have spent that money on two solid relief pitchers and cover more innings.  I would much rather have 2 David Weathers for that kinda money then one Chad Corrdeoreioroorio.
The Dusty path to the World Series!

by justin0070000 on Nov 24, 2007 2:03 AM EST up reply actions  

up late?
Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Nov 24, 2007 2:21 AM EST up reply actions  

After dark
That's when the internet gets good.

by Brendanukkah on Nov 24, 2007 2:23 AM EST up reply actions  

true
theres also good basketball on right now. and i have die hard to rock my sick ass to sleep.

check out the usc-miami game on espn... 20 seconds left

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Nov 24, 2007 2:27 AM EST up reply actions  

you missed a disappointing ending
usc won by four. meh. oj looked nice, though
Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Nov 24, 2007 2:33 AM EST up reply actions  

now
on to john mcclain and the good guy i love to hate the most... ellis.
Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Nov 24, 2007 2:35 AM EST up reply actions  

vintage
"betamax: the video wars"
Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Nov 24, 2007 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

I had mono once
and feel no nostalgia towards the experience at all.
just....wow.

by sidnancy on Nov 26, 2007 5:12 PM EST up reply actions  

That's a killer issue.
"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 26, 2007 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

goddamn jet lag
i whould start drinking just so i have an excuse.
The Dusty path to the World Series!

by justin0070000 on Nov 24, 2007 3:00 AM EST up reply actions  

What's out there?
Which starting pitchers on the free agent market would you give that money to? (And does that mean you have no trust in Bailey and Cueto to go with Harang and Arroyo?)

Getting a couple of relief pitchers for cheap gives us whoever happen to be the 2008 equivalents of Mike Stanton and Rheal Cormier.

by LooseCannon on Nov 24, 2007 4:20 AM EST up reply actions  

there is good inexpensive relief help
solid relief pitchers aren't that expensive.  See David Weathers, LeTroy Hawkins, Todd Jones, are three examples of solid relief pitchers who made less then $5M in 2007.  Plus relief pitchers are incredibly unreliable from season to season.  In 2006 Denny Reyes had a WHIP of .99 in 2006 and 1.88 in 2007.  
The Dusty path to the World Series!

by justin0070000 on Nov 24, 2007 5:06 AM EST up reply actions  

What about 2008?
Which available pitchers are you willing to sign?  Would you have preferred signing Scott Linebrink to the contract he was signed, plus the apparently available and aforementioned LaTroy Hawkins to a multi-year deal at $3-4 million per.

by LooseCannon on Nov 24, 2007 6:13 AM EST up reply actions  

Good Question....
Among starters, Carlos Silva and even Kyle Lohse would be good candidates.  And I have no problems with Bailey, Cueto, Harang, Arroyo, but those are four, not five, starters (unless there is a proposal to return to the four-man rotation?).  I'd rather have Cueto and Bailey as fourth and fifth starters (since they are so young [and in the case of Cueto no Major League experience]), instead of third and fourth in the rotation.  The worst case scenario is that a Silva/Lohse (even a Lieber or Kris Benson among the injured ones) can be insurance in case Bailey and Cueto do not work out, get injured, or if Harang and Arroyo also get hurt (or if [i.e., when] the other fifth projected starter doesn't pan out).  Just as importantly, that money would be much better spent in the bullpen on something other than what we do not need, which is a relief ace.  In fact, we could've gone out there and picked up a couple of middle inning pitchers (which is what we really need), like a Jeremy Affeldt, Riske, or Linebrink ) for a smaller amount.  

Don't get me wrong.  It's not a terrible acquisition to the extent that Cordero is at least good (as aforementioned, at least we didn't go the route of Tom Hicks and give Chan Ho Park a $65-plus million contract [yet]), but we do not have the resources to spend money like the Yankees or the Cubs last offseason.  It is best to maximize the money that you spend on what you need the most.

by tonywf on Nov 24, 2007 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

See above
  1. Weathers is still here.  Cordero is replacing Stanton and co. in the 7th, not Weathers.
  2. Save percentage is a stupid stat.
"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on Nov 24, 2007 10:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Cordero replacing....
By all accounts, he's replacing Weathers.  I understand that Weathers is not the second incarnation of Dennis Eckersley (although he was about the only really consistent relief pitcher on the team last year and performed adequately as closer), and that save percentage is not the greatest statistic, but Cordero wasn't acquired for anything other than saving games (which is what this team doesn't need).  Now, if we were to pick him up and use him the way Cinci used Scott Sullivan between 1997-2001, I would be tickled (assuming Cordero's arm could handle the workload and would remain as effective), but somehow I doubt that this was the team's intentions.

by tonywf on Nov 24, 2007 5:19 PM EST up reply actions  

hes not replacing weathers
i dont get why you keep saying this. let's say, for the sake of conversation, that there are specific inning roles for every reliever. This past year, weathers was the ninth, burton was the eighth, bray was the seventh and the rest of our shitty relievers combined for the sixth. With Cordero, weathers moves to the eighth, burton moves to the seventh, bray moves to the pack of relievers in the sixth and somebody loses his job. weathers still gets his innings, and burton still gets his innings. What you've done is replaced 70 innings of our shittiest relief innings at the bottom of the pack with 70 innings of cordero.

qed

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Nov 24, 2007 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Comparing Pitchers' Innings.....
With regards to situational variables, and what a pitcher faces, the ninth inning is not the same as the seventh and eighth, and save situations are not the same as blowouts and who you send to the mound.  And yes, it matters.  You saw what happened in Boston when they tried this approach a few years ago.  They learned the hard way that they're not the same.  This is because there is a lack of standardization in the comparison (which is distorted farther by the fact relief pitchers' productivity is always based on smaller sample sizes), so comparing the lost innings of junk relievers who were lucky to be used 30-40 innings in game situations (and the rest in situations when leads were out of hand) to Cordero is overkill.  Moreover, even assuming perfect information in innings replacement between the shifted pitchers, the teams just spent almost $12 million/year for those 70 innings (over $2 million/year more than they're spending for Harang's 200), when they could've acquired at least two good relief pitchers (one of them almost as good as Cordero) in roles that are needed for much less of a price (because they don't have the sticker price that comes with closers on the free agency market).  In terms of talent, Cordero is a good acquisition, but economically (since this is Cincinnati and not New York or Los Angeles) it was unwise.

by tonywf on Nov 25, 2007 1:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Leverage
I see what you're saying about Cordero replacing the high-leverage innings, but I don't reduce that to just save situations.  If you had to choose, would you rather have your best reliever come in to face the bottom of the lineup with a 3 run lead in the 9th, or to face the other team's best hitter in a tie game with one out in the 7th, with runners on 2nd and 3rd?  RM mentioned this in another thread - you want your best reliever to come in for the highest leverage situations, not just save situations.  Because most managers don't stray from the "save situation" orthodoxy (Dusty included), you really need at least one other top reliever to come in for high leverage situations that occur before the 9th.  In some cases that ends up being your best reliever (Indians and the Cubs this year), which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

by ken on Nov 25, 2007 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

and now we have someone
for the ninth AND for those high leverage situations.  so no one's going to be sitting on his hands saving the only reliever that can get anyone out for the ninth inning.  we have burton, weathers, and bray, all of whom can get the job done.
2008 NL Central Champs!

by Daedalus on Nov 25, 2007 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

More bright side
Not only does Cordero strengthen our bullpen, but it weakens Milwaukee's pen even further, following the departure of Scott Linebrink.  Sure, Cordero's contract could become a burden in the future, but by simultaneously strengthening our team by weakening a division rival, it looks like we're playing for all the marbles (at least the NL Central crown) next year.  Go for it guys!  We need a winning season.  We need the playoffs.

by Brendanukkah on Nov 24, 2007 2:26 AM EST reply actions  

good job!!!
now at least we dont have to have our starters trying to go late because of a horrible pen. Hopefully this helps them as well!
"Herein is love, not that we loved God but that He loved us" -1 John 4:10

by shortstopv2 on Nov 24, 2007 3:40 AM EST reply actions  

good point
Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on Nov 24, 2007 8:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Let's hope Dusty gets this message
Add getting a shot at love with Tila Tequila to the list of things at which I would be horrible.

by Red Menace on Nov 24, 2007 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I have to comment on your Tila Tequila thing
Now I don't know much about her or watch her show but she is decent looking for a skank and yes I would.
Killer Tucans all the way!!!

by Zach K on Nov 24, 2007 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

It's about time someone did
I've always said this should be less a site where we talk about the Reds and more a site where we talk about the latest episode of Tila Tequila.
Add getting a shot at love with Tila Tequila to the list of things at which I would be horrible.

by Red Menace on Nov 24, 2007 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Would you?
Killer Tucans all the way!!!

by Zach K on Nov 24, 2007 6:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Good Signing
The Reds needed this signing. It is a big change from past years of fishing for closers and setup guys. This was the best guy out there in this role. He's at the top of his game and still young enough to be an effective closer. It's a statement, too, that the Reds will take a bold (and, methinks, smart) move to fix a glaring problem. Big change. And I think the Reds will spend more. And I think Reds fans will turn out in droves for a winner and make the money spent a smart investment.

I like what this signing does for the 7th and 8th innings. I've said this before, but I like Weathers holding leads in the 8th inning. It's not right that your best setup guy is held back for a lead or an extra-inning tie game. How many more leads would the Reds have taken into the 9th last year if it was Weathers in the 8th, Burton in the 7th? I think this is the most important question to ask. Let's say it's 20 more leads. If Cordero converts 85% of those leads into saves, that's around 17 more wins. And it's not like the 3 blown saves are automatic losses, either. This shows the true value of having Cordero at the end.

All around, good signing. Now I'd like to see Griffey traded and Bruce in RF on opening day. What are the chances that the A's or the M's will pay half Griffey's salary for 2 years and turn him into a DH? If that happens, Griffey passes Sosa and Mays for sure, which is where he deserves to be.

by jamesp50014 on Nov 24, 2007 5:25 AM EST reply actions  

woohoo!!!!!
the off season is no longer boring!!!!  wayno did something right!!!
I love the Reds no matter what!

by Daedalus on Nov 24, 2007 7:17 AM EST reply actions  

also from the oracle
"...and it addresses one of the most important things to do to maximize the value Dusty has with a team - present him a fait accompli as many places as you can. The most cost-effective way to build a closer is to grow them yourself, but given that Dusty will be the manager for at least 2 years, does anyone put faith in Dusty to evaluate a bunch of relievers or unsuccessful starters and figure out who has the best chance of long-term success? That's not what Dusty's for. Give Baker a team in which everyone knows who's starting and there's no secondary viable option anywhere and Baker does pretty well. That's also, of course, part of the problem because then your team doesn't have a lot of depth and injuries really hurt, but Dusty really can't be trusted to not confuse starters with solid backups."

I quote this not because I hold Szymborski as an unimpeachable authority, but because I think this opinion is shared by many, including Dusty's supporters. It's just a really weird thing to have to say about a big-name expensive manager.

Add getting a shot at love with Tila Tequila to the list of things at which I would be horrible.

by Red Menace on Nov 25, 2007 2:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Just so I'm clear, who is..
..the unimpeachable authority around here?
"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 25, 2007 9:56 AM EST up reply actions  

this guy
Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Nov 25, 2007 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Huh
  • Seems a bit rich.  I wonder if something like Norris Hopper + Juan Francisco could've pried Lidge away from the Astros.  
  • That being said, I'd rather overpay in areas where the team has shown that it's deficient in roster construction.  Having good cost-controlled regulars at several positions - which Wayne will hopefully continue to unearth in his dumpster diving - gives you the luxury of overspending in other areas.  Also, I'd rather overpay for quality, which Cordero is.  Great K/9 (4th in MLB for relievers) and K/BB (7th) numbers, and not many HR (0.6/9 IP) even though he pitched in Texas for most of his career.
  • As bad as the bullpen was this year, it might have actually gotten worse if we had stood pat. Weathers really pulled '07 out of his ass (reaching his 75th percentile PECOTA projection), partially because he gave up an absurdly low number of HRs despite allowing more flyballs. Burton was effective but lucky that his lack of control (about a walk every other inning) didn't hurt him more.  You hope for rebounds from Coffey, Stanton, and Bray, but you don't know.
  • I'm past the point of being shocked by the $$.  MLB is pulling in money hand over fist - $6 bb in revenue last year - so the baseline from even a couple of years ago is no longer relevant.
  • I do worry about the number of years.  BJ Ryan was outstanding in '06 but pitched 4 innings last year.  Cordero has had health issues in the past, although they were a few years ago.  I hope Kremchek did his bestest poking here.      
  • I'm glad we didn't sacrifice a first round pick here.  The Brewers must feel jilted in losing two type-A's but getting no first round picks in return.

by ken on Nov 24, 2007 10:56 AM EST reply actions  

Sure
but with Lidge are you or are you not getting a headcase?

With Cordero, you don't have those questions.

This was about overpaying for a known commodity.

by bobestes on Nov 24, 2007 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Why not have both?
Other than the $$, that is.  

With Lidge you're at least limiting your risk to one year.  But yeah, I'd rather have Cordero if contracts weren't an issue.

by ken on Nov 25, 2007 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

The Reds must think
they're real close to competing. Real close.

by Man Mountain on Nov 24, 2007 11:27 AM EST reply actions  

They may or may not be real close...
..but at least they're no longer Rheal close.
"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 24, 2007 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Does that mean they've started being polite
since they've stopped being Rheal?
I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Nov 24, 2007 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Rosenthal's rationale
His current column http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7480346 talks about why it may not be "ludicrous" for the Reds to spend big on Cordero, mainly because several salaries can and are being excised soon. He also comments later in the column on the fact that Jr. was the only current Reds player to attend Nuxhall's visitation (he called it funeral).

by pw on Nov 24, 2007 12:25 PM EST reply actions  

Junya
Junya really is a decent man, albeit a guarded and private one.  And sometimes moody.

A couple days ago i wondered if AK would have attended the visitation if he was still in the organization, being a "local" and all.  Then I read Sean Casey was in attendance, which didnt surprise me one bit.  Sean Casey is all class.  

by fletch @ Red Reporter on Nov 24, 2007 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

my main concern with the money
is that there could be several front of the rotation starters on the market next year and it should would be fun to be in that market.  Maybe they will be since the majority of the roster will still be young and cheap over the next couple of years, but I hope that signing a closer doesn't shut the Reds out of the solid crop of starters next year.  Although, wouldn't it be great if Bailey, Cueto, and Maloney made that moot?
I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Nov 24, 2007 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Real quick and dirty...
I wanted to take a look at what the Cordero deal does to our payroll over the next 2 seasons.  I went to mlb4u.com and looked at the contractual raises and arbitration eligibles.  I kept a few minor raises out (i.e. Coffey @ $200K) to help with the math, and SWAG'd arb numbers for guys like Phillips and EE.  The +/- numbers are with regard to the previous year's salary.  Here's what I came up with.  Apologies in advance for the formatting.

2008
(9) Milton
2.65 Arroyo
2.5 Harang
11.5 Cordero
2.5 Dunn
3 Phillips
1.5 Gonzalez
1 Belisle
1 Freel
1 Stanton
----------
$17.65mil Payroll Increase

2009
(12.5) Griffey
(13) Dunn
(3) Stanton
(3) Weathers
(2) Hatteberg
4.25 Harang
3 Arroyo
2 Encarnacion
2 Phillips
1 Freel
1 Gonzalez
1 Belisle
-------------
$19.25mil payroll DECREASE

I think this leaves you with 2 great options in terms of payroll flexibility at the end of 2008.  

Option 1: If Bailey and/or Cueto develop as you hope, you're set as far as the rotation goes.  Sign Dunn to an extension, and look to make a run for '09-'11 with your roster as currently constituted.  That team will get rather expensive by 2011 (not Yankee expensive), but you have a hell of a nucleus that's still young.

Option 2: if Bailey and/or Cueto can't hack it, let Dunn walk, use that $19mil to go after a Santana, Sabathia, Lackey or Penny, bring up Stubbs to play between Hamilton and Bruce, and see if you can make a run that way.

Either way, with the contracts coming off the books next season, and the glut of young talent still a few years away from arbitration, this team has a lot of payroll flexibility after next season.  I was actually real worried about the same thing before I did the math.

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on Nov 24, 2007 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice post
I haven't checked your math, but if it's correct, you're absolutely right.  Keeping Option 2 open is why not sign Dunn to an extension just yet.
At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on Nov 24, 2007 8:08 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed
I hadn't looked at the math officially either, just that it seemed like there was a lot of money going to a small group of players (but I guess it's like that every year).  BLee's math up there looks good except that getting rid of Griffey in 2009 only saves $8.5M as he has a $4M buyout of his option.  $15M is still pretty good, though it probably takes them out of the upper echelon free agent market, which may be okay given the youth that is still trickling in.

The more I think about it though, the more I think this means Dunn is gone after 2008, especially if Hamilton manages to stay healthy this year.  Of course, if Hamilton is healthy and Bruce produces like he's expected, I probably won't have a problem with Dunn moving on.

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Nov 24, 2007 10:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Haven't seen JMcClain around
But his salary chart is informative and easy on the eyes.  One of the gatekeepers should update it.

by ken on Nov 25, 2007 11:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Forgot 2 guys...
that make a pretty big difference on the 2008 numbers.  Neither of these guys were on the team at the end of 2007, so their contract didn't show up on mlb4u.com, but we definitely paid them.

(4.2) Kyle Lohse
(2.25) Rheal Cormier

Bringing the 2008 Payroll Increase to $11.2 million.  This does not effect my numbers for 2009.

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on Nov 25, 2007 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Meh
(2) Jeff Conine

$9.2  million

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on Nov 25, 2007 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Cordero signing
*The Reds are not going to get many free agents for market rate.  Simply, the organization needs to overpay for talent, or it will go elsewhere.  

*I agree with the weakening a division rival theory.  That is a secondary effect of the signing, and it is a bonus.

*King Booker just signed with TNA Impact, and has left WWE.  My boys, wrestling junkies, are intrigued. I say that b/c neither of them has a clue who Cordero is.  I hope Casetellini remembers to market the product to families in '08, i am concerned on what impact a dwindling fan base has in the next decade or two.

*I have gotten to the point where i almost dont care what salaries are in baseball.  it truly has become ludicrous, and i firmly support the free market determining compensation.  i'd rather have Cordero in the pen than not....so i'll back the signing.

*Power arms should be the focus moving forward, no more soft tossing RHP's(SAARLOSS!).  Anyone know what Cordero's entrance from the pen music is? I nominate "Lose Yourself" by Eminem.  

 

by fletch @ Red Reporter on Nov 24, 2007 12:32 PM EST reply actions  

Thank God
I approve of this signing if only for the reason it gives me some excuse to talk about the Cincinnati Reds in November.

by bobestes on Nov 24, 2007 2:49 PM EST reply actions  

Stay away from pessimism, do your part
Sometimes I think we could sign Bill Brasky and people would complain.

Who cares if Señor Krivsky spends lots of money?  Buy lots and lots of fresh mid-western produce.  You won't be as fat eating fruits and vegetables and Castellini could spend more for our enjoyment on the ball field.

Start eating healthy fat bloggers, it helps the Reds!

by buckeye22fox on Nov 24, 2007 3:29 PM EST reply actions  

yes, i agree with you
it doesn't matter what the team does - people will complain no matter what.  i'm just happy that the complaining about this signing is in the minority.
2008 NL Central Champs!

by Daedalus on Nov 24, 2007 5:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Heer ! Heer !
"Sports do not build character. They reveal it." Matthew Campbell

by Madville on Nov 24, 2007 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

yep
and it doesn't matter what the size of the complaining group is - people will complain about the complainers no matter what.
I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Nov 24, 2007 10:02 PM EST up reply actions  

ha
i see what you did there... you flipped the script.
Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Nov 24, 2007 11:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Hear hear!
Add getting a shot at love with Tila Tequila to the list of things at which I would be horrible.

by Red Menace on Nov 25, 2007 2:30 AM EST up reply actions  

well, it's gotten really old
look at other sites - no one complains as much as reds fans do.  is it a geographical thing or what?
2008 NL Central Champs!

by Daedalus on Nov 25, 2007 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

you and I must not read the same sites
Every team has fans that are unhappy with the way things are being run, even fans that don't root for a team that has 7 straight losing seasons.

What I don't get is that there isn't a lot of "complaining" in this thread.  I don't know what you expect from people, but I happen to like the fact that there are people that want to examine a move for both its positive and negative points.  Every move, even the smartest one, has a downside.  Sometimes the best way to evaluate a move is by judging based on its downside, especially when a large amount of money is being spent.  If you can look at a move and say that the risk was worth the potential reward, then you know it was a good move.  But if you look at for only the positives that it brings, well then it's just a move that may or may not be good.

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Nov 25, 2007 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll vouch for that
Yankees fans are a lot worse, believe you me.  I can't recall any move the Yankees have made that was as enthusiastically greeted by the fans as this one by the Reds has been.
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Nov 25, 2007 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Complaining
It doesn't seem that bad around here to me.  

The contract is not a good one.  But if that's what it takes to land a free agent these days, then fine.  

by Brian B on Nov 25, 2007 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I, for one am sick and tired
of the fact that there is not enough complaining at this site.
"It's not savvy. But it's not Mike Stanton." andromache

by Madville on Nov 26, 2007 5:17 AM EST up reply actions  

I hate all the irony at Red Reporter.
"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 26, 2007 8:14 AM EST up reply actions  

Let me complain a bit.
Has anyone noticed that Cordero has a lifetime WHIP of 1.35?  Isn't that high for a closer?

He did post a very nice 1.11 WHIP last season, but still, regardless of how many saves the guy has, isn't that 1.35 a bit worrisome?

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on Nov 26, 2007 10:26 AM EST up reply actions  

That's a reasonable question
But I don't think it's a huge concern mainly because 1.35 isn't excessively high and because Cordero does two other things very well.  First, he strikes batters out, meaning he's not dependent on the defense to get out of jams.  Second, he doesn't give up too many home runs.  Despite spending his career in hitters parks in Texas and Milwaukee, he's only allowed 0.64 HR/9 over his career.

I would guess that he probably won't put up a sub-3.00 ERA next year mainly because he seemed to have a big spike in strikeouts while concurrently dropping his walks.  Perhaps he suddenly gained control of his pitches like never before, but I think it's more likely that it's an anomaly and he'd drop back to his previous trends in those categories, especially when you see that those trends were quite clear:

I'd guess that he'll be in the 3-3.5 range for ERA.  He might get a slight boost from a minor improvement on defense, but that might be counteracted by giving up an extra home run or two.

I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Nov 26, 2007 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

this is fun
it looks like two worms fighting

by jacob brumfield on Nov 26, 2007 11:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Mmmm.
Worms.  Thanks.
At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on Nov 26, 2007 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

FWIW...
Check out Frankie's numbers through a 24-day stretch of games in April 2006.

He gave up 31 earned runs in 2006.  14 of those runs were given up before the first of May.

If he hadn't had such a poor start, he might not have temporarily lost his job and he might have put up back-to-back 40+ save/<3.00 ERA seasons.

And the Reds might not have been able to afford him this off-season.

But then- if a frog had wings he wouldn't bust his ass a-hoppin'.

"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 27, 2007 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Juan Castro
The Reds already have one fictional baseball player on the payroll.

by Man Mountain on Nov 24, 2007 5:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Fay
From Fay's blog:

CEO Bob Castellini said: "We have not signed a contract with Cordero."

Have you agreed to a contract in principle?

"We have not signed a contract with Cordero?" Castellini said.

Nothing like a pinch of John fay punctuation to add some ambiguity to the story.  I'm Ron Burgundy?

by Brian B on Nov 24, 2007 11:12 PM EST reply actions  

Jedi mind tricks
Bob is a Jedi master and Fay is a pawn in his games.
I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Nov 25, 2007 10:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Anybody else watching this?
Missouri looks gooooooooooooooooood

I guess that's what happens to your program when you hire an old Toledo coach.

Worked for LSU.

About to work for Mizzou.

"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on Nov 24, 2007 11:26 PM EST reply actions  

well, here we go...
jayhawks have a chance..
Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Nov 24, 2007 11:42 PM EST up reply actions  

91 yards, 17 seconds, 0 timeouts
They're gonna need one of them 15 lateral plays
"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on Nov 24, 2007 11:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Ballgame
Congratulations, Coach Pinkel
"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on Nov 24, 2007 11:45 PM EST up reply actions  

wait
onside kick
Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Nov 24, 2007 11:45 PM EST up reply actions  

that was a bad onside kick
Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Nov 24, 2007 11:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think
you can onside a free kick
"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on Nov 24, 2007 11:47 PM EST up reply actions  

you can
but you should do a better job than that
Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Nov 24, 2007 11:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess...
they needed field position there as much as they needed the ball.  That's the only explanation for that.
"Karma - there it was. The meaning of life, straight from Carson Daly's lips to my morphine-laced ears." -Earl Hickey

by BLee2525 on Nov 24, 2007 11:51 PM EST up reply actions  

just think about the signing
Looks like the Brewers have taken a fall back losing two guys from their pen which was a big plus for them last year. Now if the Reds can find one more legit starter and get decent production from the catchers ...
Hope Springs Eternal! Go Reds

by Caleb on Nov 25, 2007 11:28 AM EST reply actions  

Wow OSU might get to the title game
West Virgina is in, I don't see how they could lose to Pitt but  this is a very odd college football season so who knows.

I feel bad for Missouri they have to play a very tough Oklahoma team next week so while this Kansas win is nice it means almost nothing.

Top 3 teams best out of conference wins and conference wins

West Virgina- Mississippi State/#20 UCONN

Missouri-at Illinois/#2 Kansas

Ohio State- at Washington/#19 Michigan

Clearly Ohio State has the slightly weaker schedule but West Virgina really isn't that far behind.

If OSU plays either of these teams it will be a really bad match up for them, though making a national championship back to back years is impressive no matter how you got there.

UC looks to be in the Papa Johns bowl...yuk. The Big East deserves better bowl games. Seriously in any other BCS conference the 3rd place team wouldn't be playing Southern Mississippi!

Killer Tucans all the way!!!

by Zach K on Nov 25, 2007 12:06 PM EST reply actions  

So when can the reds sign
Carlos Silva and Jeremy Affdelt?

For the record, I don't like the move because I think the reds are over paying him, however; I like to see the effort to make this team better kudos to Bob for that.

Killer Tucans all the way!!!

by Zach K on Nov 25, 2007 4:09 PM EST reply actions  

I don't like this move
He'll have to save 50 games a year to break the record.  Not likely.  He looks like he has to shave a lot too.  Yuck.  I hate it when people clog up the sink with stubble.  I remember when All-Star closers made 5 mil a year and were proud of it.  Maybe Wayne will try to make him a starter.  He probably couldn't hack it though.  Probably not good enough to do it.  In summation, I don't like this move.

by babyfacedassasin on Nov 25, 2007 5:14 PM EST reply actions  

i hadnt heard about this all weekend
so i just read this a few hours ago.  ive been thinking about it for a while, and i think im ok with it.  the pen was deplorable and adding cordero, the best reliever on the market, was the best way of fixing it.  thats a balls-to-the-wall move by krivsky.  no joe mays, no jason johnson, no horseshit waiver claims.  he went and got the best guy available.  of course we overpaid.  every free agent market every year everyone always thinks they overpay.  but salaries have been on a steady rise for a while.  as they go up every year, the contracts of year's past start to not look so bad.  carlos beltran looked disgusting a few year ago.  so did vlad.  B.J. ryan too.  of course, there are some that dont work out and end up looking even worse than they did when they were signed.  eric milton comes to mind.  this isnt the thrust of my argument, but its surely something to keep in mind.

im not one to condone throwing huge money at a closer, but in this case i think its ok.  coco has proven to be a solid guy year-in, year-out, not a terrible injury risk, solid stats.  its bad to buy a closer, but i guess if you have to buy a closer (and we certainly needed to) then at least buy the best one.

at least this isnt pittsburgh

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 25, 2007 8:35 PM EST reply actions  

I'm going on record as not liking the nickname
The thousand monkeys at a thousand typewriters that comprise the membership of Red Reporter can certainly come up with something better.

...of course the only thing that I can think of right now is calling him "Frankie" and having big "Frankie Say Relax" signs when he comes on in the ninth.

by Brendanukkah on Nov 26, 2007 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Cool. Just the other day...
..Boobs was asking me what he should do with all of his old FGTH memorabilia.

"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 26, 2007 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

40-man roster
Does anyone know who was bumped off the 40-man roster to make room for Cordero?  Didn't they fill it out just before the signing was announced?

by Brian B on Nov 25, 2007 11:17 PM EST reply actions  

I don't think it's official yet
I'm wondering if they'll hold off on the official announcement until after the Rule 5 draft.  

That may be what the Yankees are doing.  Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera, and Alex Rodriguez are as good as signed, but there's been no official announcement, and they're not on the roster yet.  A lot of people are wondering what the holdup is.  Maybe they just don't want to make any more roster moves until after the Rule 5 draft.

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Nov 26, 2007 12:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Hopefully
Juan Castro.  That would solve two problems at once.
At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on Nov 26, 2007 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

i just saw this
from mark sheldon:

"There's no deal," Krivsky said. "We've had conversations, I can tell you that. There's nothing to announce. That's where it stands."

But Brewers GM Doug Melvin said that agent Bean Stringfellow informed him on Thursday that Cordero had chosen Cincinnati. Milwaukee offered $42 million over four years with a $13 million option for a fifth year, but apparently came up short.

it appears that bean's real name is thornton. thornton stringfellow.

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Nov 26, 2007 2:00 AM EST reply actions  

F. Cor
How about F. Cor as a nickname, a la J. Lo?

by Lakeman on Nov 26, 2007 12:12 PM EST reply actions  

In a way
I've been calling him F. Cor for about 4 days now.  I haven't had any complaints so far.

by Lakeman on Nov 26, 2007 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I hate all the complaining at Red Reporter.
"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 26, 2007 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess
we could go with Fran Cor, but that sounds like Francouer.

by Lakeman on Nov 26, 2007 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I like Fran-Co
Its not John Franco or Generalissimo Franco or Coco but easy to remember.
"It's not savvy. But it's not Mike Stanton." andromache

by Madville on Nov 26, 2007 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I am in no hurry...
To give this guy a nickname.  During the course of the first season of this guy, he will no doubt do something to generate a nickname (e.g., LaWhiff, Hollandsworthless, the Human Batting Tee, McCrappen, etc.), someone here or in the media will do something to generate a nickname (e.g., Some Dude, T.S.F. Juan Castro, Brandon Arroyo, Farney, etc.), someone will notice something distinctive about his appearance that generates a nickname (e.g., El Guapo, LLM, Sea Bass, Bucco Bruce, etc.) or he will bear some resemblance to an evil 20th-century despot (e.g., Hitler).

Certain individuals, of course, require no nickname (e.g., Coutlangus, Dick Pole, etc.).

At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on Nov 26, 2007 7:17 PM EST up reply actions  

OK, but what to do until spring training?
"It's not savvy. But it's not Mike Stanton." andromache

by Madville on Nov 26, 2007 7:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Call him whatever you want
For now, until he gets a real nickname.  Just don't call him anything that might get you banned.
At least it wasn't Grady Little.

by Paul Householder on Nov 26, 2007 8:19 PM EST up reply actions  

out like white after labor day
Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Nov 27, 2007 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

That's racist.
"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 27, 2007 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

And Fat Tuesday?
"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 27, 2007 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

And Good Friday
at Mel Gibson's house.
I'm not superstitious...but I am a little stitious.

by Slyde on Nov 27, 2007 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

That reminds me..
When is Drunken Aussie Wednseday?
"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 27, 2007 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

can i bring my friends?
Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Nov 27, 2007 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

i never did catch on as to why
gonzalez is nicknamed "seabass".  its not in the wiki.  little help?
at least this isnt pittsburgh

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 26, 2007 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

seabass
His teammates with the Marlins nicknamed him that because he looks like a fish. If you search for it here teb7 posted funny side by side photos at some point.
Add getting a shot at love with Tila Tequila to the list of things at which I would be horrible.

by Red Menace on Nov 26, 2007 8:51 PM EST up reply actions  

here's one
http://www.redreporter.com/comments/2007/3/5/53631/23387/50#50
Add getting a shot at love with Tila Tequila to the list of things at which I would be horrible.

by Red Menace on Nov 26, 2007 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

wow
the stat monkeys here really work hard, even in the offseason.  such a quick response.  

and he does kinda look like a fish.  good thing he's a millionaire.

at least this isnt pittsburgh

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 26, 2007 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Are you the Real Paul Householder?
Also, it's B-Ukkahkake...
Put in a quarter...Turn out the lights...Magic Fingers makes ya feel alright!

by chandrathan on Nov 26, 2007 7:57 PM EST up reply actions  

John Fay was on XMradio
he really is stupid.  I feel like I know so much more about the reds then he does.  Like he was recalling Bronson Arroyo's 129 pitch outing.  He said they went on to lose in 10 innings, when you know they lost in regulation, on a CG by Arroyo.  That game is just kinda memorable.  I have better fact recall about the Red's and he is paid to fallow the Reds.
The Dusty path to the World Series!

by justin0070000 on Nov 26, 2007 3:35 PM EST reply actions  

you may recall facts pretty well
but part of Fay's job description is to spell words correctly.

So it will remain your dream job.

by jacob brumfield on Nov 27, 2007 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Why's everybuddy aways cappining
on Justone's spelling. I understand everything that he he's writted so far. I mean not everybuddy has had a chance to study indegenoos languages liek Man Mountain or me.
"It's not savvy. But it's not Mike Stanton." andromache

by Madville on Nov 27, 2007 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

tobacco, if he's
...being paid to let things lie fallow.
Everybody's a jerk. You. Me. This jerk.

by andromache on Nov 27, 2007 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Cordero
Way too much to pay for the guy, I don't care what his K/9 is.  And now another Cordero may be changing teams?  

Articles on all these things at www.mlbfleecefactor.com.  

Pretty funny site too.  Love the Glavine/Maddux video there have on there.

by ET90210 on Nov 26, 2007 3:57 PM EST reply actions  

what about Dero Isaacs?
One call, that's all.

Any heavy hitter fans in the house?

Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Nov 26, 2007 6:47 PM EST reply actions  

Dude
my fiancee parents are good friends with the heavy hitters wife. I keep asking if I can go over to his house and talk to the talking dog. I am a little worried that he might step on me or my car while I am there.

by CamIam on Nov 26, 2007 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

A lil' mo FWIW...
Frankie's lifetime stats against the Pirates:

13 games, 13.1 innings, 1 win, 10 saves, 0 ER, 0.94 WHIP and .136 BAA

But then, this was all amassed prior to the Pirates going and getting one of those new-fangled cybog-a-metrics and OBP lovin' general managers.

"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 27, 2007 11:55 AM EST reply actions  

yeah, but...
 can one of those new-fangled cybog-a-metrics and OBP lovin' general managers swing a bat?

by jacob brumfield on Nov 27, 2007 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Tom Verducci at SI had this to say about the Reds:
"The Reds weren't quite as bad as their 72-90 record indicated and they hired a veteran manager who fits the turnaround profile: Baker. Cincinnati was outscored by 70 runs last year, but the eighth inning alone accounted for 53 of those runs. (The Reds allowed more runs in the eighth, 123, than any other inning.) The signing of closer Francisco Cordero, while an extravagant one (the most expensive free agent in franchise history at four years, $46 million), at least on paper, improves Cincinnati's eighth-inning chances, with David Weathers and Jared Burton setting up Cordero.

The 2007 Reds had the worst bullpen in the NL (5.13 ERA). If they can improve the bullpen the way the 2007 Indians did, the 2008 Reds -- especially if young hitters Jay Bruce and Joey Votto contribute -- could be a playoff team."

Verducci's piece prognosticates who might emerge from the doldrums of the league to become playoff contenders next year.  He lists the Reds as the prime candidate to do just that.  

I dont really have too much to add, I just thought it was pretty exciting to hear that we are not being written off by the national media even before the winter meetings roll 'round.

Here's the link to the whole article:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/tom_verducci/11/27/inside.baseball/index.html

at least this isnt pittsburgh

by Charlie Scrabbles on Nov 27, 2007 7:52 PM EST reply actions  

I don't think..
..the Reds want to be in a position where Jay Bruce's contributions are a key to any playoff push.

Sometimes I think that these "capsules" are written with the sole purpose of packing as much information (relevant or otherwise) into a few sentences: "Joey Votto and Jay Bruce.  There, I said it. See, I know who's in the non-contending teams' farm systems. I'm a baseball writer. Yep."

"The taco has to be redeemed on Oct. 30 or Nov. 6 - that's a Tuesday."

by Fat Vegas Alan on Nov 27, 2007 7:59 PM EST up reply actions  

That is pretty neat
I guess signing Dusty and Cordero has gotten people's attention.  
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Nov 27, 2007 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

just wait til we sign jenny finch
Marty may have a shirt on, but Billy Beane just ripped his off and is squeezing his nipples. - Brendan's ukkah

by boobs on Nov 27, 2007 8:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd take her over Saarloos or Milton
To say nothing of Michalchak, Sunny D, and so on.  Tom Shearn has a good shot to be our #5 starter.  Why not go for Finch?

by Brendanukkah on Nov 27, 2007 8:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Shearn?
He's not even on the roster.  They DFA'd him.  
All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Nov 27, 2007 8:17 PM EST up reply actions  

You and your... knowledge
Still, our other prospects for a #5 aren't as attractive.  Skill wise.  And looks wise.

by Brendanukkah on Nov 27, 2007 9:00 PM EST up reply actions  

And Smell wise
Put in a quarter...Turn out the lights...Magic Fingers makes ya feel alright!

by chandrathan on Nov 27, 2007 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

LOL
Shearn was outrighted to Louisville, so it's possible he could be the #5 starter next year.  He should be safe from the Rule 5 draft, since he cleared waivers a couple of weeks ago.  

But if the Reds did see him as their #5 starter, I don't think they'd have exposed him to waivers in the first place.  

All Things Bubba: Because how can you not love a baseball player named Bubba?

by BubbaFan on Nov 27, 2007 9:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Jenny has a kid named 'Ace'
Personal
  • Birthday: September 3, 1980
  • Family:
Spouse: Casey
Children: Ace (born May 2006)
Parents: Doug and Bev
Siblings: Shane (married to Danielle, nephew Reshly), Landon (married to Rachel, nephews Asher & Athen)
Dog: Prada (Yorkshire terrier)
Favorite writer: Man mountain
"It's not savvy. But it's not Mike Stanton." andromache

by Madville on Nov 28, 2007 12:30 AM EST reply actions  

Warm fuzzies!
After not stopping by for weeks, I just read through the 230 comments on this thread and was reminded why this is such a great place!  Now that stuff may actually be happening, I should come back more often...

by Gray on Nov 28, 2007 12:32 PM EST reply actions  

ah, well
i don't think much is going to happen the rest of the off season, though i still have faith we'll get one more starter through one big trade.  i just hope it's the RIGHT trade.

i think people flip through here several times a day, see no one has had anything witty to say, and leave, so it looks like no ones here, but they really are.

and i guess this would be a good opportunity, seeing as there isn't much else to say about this, to thank whoever suggested the national way back when.  i was going to hop on over to croatia a few weeks ago to see them, but realized that maybe four times in one year was enough.  (on my ears right now.)

2008 NL Central Champs!

by Daedalus on Nov 28, 2007 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Someone always wants to rain on the parade
Here's an article comparing what the Indians did to acquire a reliever versus what the Reds did to acquire one.  I'll grant you that the Indians are a better run team (they made the ALCS on a lower payroll than we had, in a tougher division), but I'm still not as down on this Cordero signing as this guy.  Mostly because I have hypnotized myself into believing that money doesn't matter.

http://vegaswatch.blogspot.com/2007/11/risky-relievers.html

by Brendanukkah on Nov 28, 2007 2:47 PM EST reply actions  

Monica Bellucci
Born in 1964 in the Italian village of Città di Castello, Umbria, Bellucci originally pursued a career in the legal profession. While attending the University of Perugia, she modeled on the side to earn money for school (1992). Her role in the 1996 French thriller, Appartement, L' (1996), shot her to stardom as she won the French equivalent of an Oscar nomination. Other credits include Malèna (2000), Under Suspicion (2000) and Pacte des loups
(2001).
Personal

    * Birthday: September 3, 1964

    * Family:

Spouse: Red Menace
Children: Whaan (born May 2006)
Parents: Dimitri and Shawna
Siblings: Igor (married to Olga, nephew Sluggo), Carlito (married to Rachel, dogs Peter and Asher
Puma: Prada (Free range carnivore)
Favorite writer: Man mountain
Favorite Red: Edwin immaculateincareration

"It's not savvy. But it's not Mike Stanton." andromache

by Madville on Nov 28, 2007 4:39 PM EST reply actions  

She was a fine starter wife
Add getting a shot at love with Tila Tequila to the list of things at which I would be horrible.

by Red Menace on Nov 28, 2007 6:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Har! Har!
"It's not savvy. But it's not Mike Stanton." andromache

by Madville on Nov 28, 2007 7:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Reds Complete the deal today.....

And this makes the deal even better....

Cincinnati designated outfielder Buck Coats for assignment to make room on their 40-man roster.

Nobody listens to Andrew. Wayne... You're Next !

by nlt-andrew68 on Nov 28, 2007 5:14 PM EST reply actions  

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