Off Day / Trade Deadline Open Thread

to the Tigers?  Just heard it hear at work.  Can anyone verify that?

maybe gone for a reliever?  Just heard something about it on the radio...

for Raul Cormier?  Can't verify it yet, but it sounds like it's a done deal.  Not sure what this gets us.

Germano for Cormier:  seems like a consistent pattern.  Overpay for necessary short-term help.  It's good for Justin anyway, as he would never have been given a chance here. Note, though, when another team looks to take value from the Reds, they focus on a player brought in by O'Brien.  

A player doesn't have X amount of options a year, he can be sent down over and over during the course of a year and it only counts as one.  So bringing Watson up and sending him back changes nothing.

Reds get Lohse for Zach Ward.  That sounds terrible to me, but in fairness this was posted on Marc's blog: "at 7/31/2006 11:07 AM Brj said...
Lohse has pitched very well over the last 6 weeks or so out of the Minnesota pen. Since June 14: 0-1, 3.18 ERA and a .238 Opp. BA.
More importantly he has shown great control. In 22.2 IP he's struck out 19 while allowing only 3 BB. (He's also only given up 2 dingers in that stretch, too.)"

I don't have a beef w/ this if he's going to the pen, but if he's going to start...ugh.

Trade link  http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/07/31/bc.bbo.pirates.tigerstr.ap/index.html

Shelton sent to AAA.

There hasn't been a Reds trade in the last 30 minutes.  I am now forced to work.

2W 5L 7.70 ERA, 34 IP, 27H, 13K, 13BB.

How does a guy who is allowing well less than a hit an inning have a 7.70 ERA?  Very odd.

The Reds and Cormier agreed to 1yr extension, with club option for 2008.

Per John Fay...

63 IP 1.65 WHIP, 7.70 ERA, that is horrid, again his ERA in July has about 3, so maybe he's coming around.  I just hope the Reds don't plan on starting him, that is not the way to make the playoffs.

7-0 2.29 at Dayton this year.

The guy is first in the league in relievers ERAs, it's sub 2.  The Reds bullpen is better as a result of it.  Teams aren't going to give us their best players for free, we have to give up something for them.  Lohse, that's different, but I'm going to try to withhold judgement until we see whether or not the Reds plan to start him this year.

I hope 4 o'clock gets here quick before Krivsky does any more damage.  We've now traded away a first-class prospect for a starter who probably won't be meaningfully better than Germano would have been for the rest of the season.  It looks to me like Krivsky is systematically getting rid of all the talent O'Brien brought into the organization in order to put his stamp on things.  Unfortunately that makes me think even Homer and Bruce may not be untouchable.  

says that Reds acquired two arms for the 'pen. This implies Lohse will not be a starter.

Here's how I see the Krivsky record.  He made a good deal of Wily Mo for Arroyo, but that's because he finally had a strong hand, the kind of strong hand Dan O'Brien never had because of the 5 players for 4 positions problem.  O'Brien made the tough trade, an incredibly good trade, to get Pittsburgh to absorb 7 million dollars worth of Casey's salary.  And it's the Casey trade that makes the Wily Mo trade possible.  I give K credit for picking up Phillips, but I don't think he deserves a lot here.  He didn't do anything to lead Cleveland into the weak position they stupidly put themselves in by making it clear they weren't going to keep Phillips.  Ross has been a good surprise; whether he actually can continue to put up better numbers than LaRue is still in doubt.  And the Guardado pickup makes sense.  But don't forget he let Hancock go, and if Hancock had done for us what he's done for the Cardinals, K wouldn't have had to make the disastrous trade with the Nats at all.  He could have dealt for relievers from somewhere but he could have done so from a much stronger position.  Now, again from a weak position, he gives up a first-class prospect for a pitcher whose lifetime homers per game is something like 1.3 (sound like somebody we already know?) I also think he was way too quick to pass Cody Ross on to the Marlins, though I do hope we get a decent PTBNL from that talent-rich, prospect-oriented organization.

I never knew Dan O had such supporters.  I don't know how the Casey trade made the Wily Mo deal possible.  I would like to think that Bob Castellini isn't so worried about nickles and dimes that he would have forced Casey out for someone as horrid as Dave Williams.

I agree that Hancock was a bad decision, but I think Krivsky was trying to create a new attitude around the team.  Krivsky deserves a lot of credit for Phillips, the Indians didn't want them but there were 29 other teams out there and Wayne K saw something in him, and it's paid off.  I don't know that Ward is a first class prospect, he's a little old to be in A ball isn't he?  I'm not saying that I think Lohse was a good pickup, but Krivsky has done a pretty good job so far this year.  And today isn't over yet, so let's see what happens.

Dave Williams was irrelevant to the Casey trade.  The trade was made to unload the salary of one of the most overpaid players in the major leagues (a fine player whom I like and respect, but way overpaid relative to what can be had at 1B).  That trade has to be one of the greatest con jobs in baseball history, executed by Dan O.  The connection between that trade and the Wily Mo trade is that once Casey was gone, the Reds didn't have to trade Wily Mo (or any of the others--Griffey, Kearns, Dunn).  You're always in a better position to trade when you don't have to do so.  As long as other GMs knew the Reds had to move one (or more) of those guys, there was no way you could ever get equal value for them.  Same deal in the Nats trade.  Bowden hosed Krivsky because everybody in baseball knew the Reds bullpen had become so bad that K had to do something.  He traded from a weak position, and, predictably, had to give up way too much.

It is very unlikely Bailey could make a big impact on this team, this year.  From all I've heard is that he doesn't have a good second pitch, and it would be better for the organization that he stay in the minors and perfect a couple of pitches and be ready to start, then come up here and throw fastballs for an inning at a time.

The thing that disturbs me about Bailey is, I remember reading something about him in spring training, when he was asked about learning a changeup (maybe from soto), he blew it off essentially saying he threw hard stuff.  Maybe somebody else remembers reading this, and I thought it was a pretty poor attitude for a young guy trying to make the majors.  It sounds like Bailey has a ton of talent, but if his mind is closed to being taught, there isn't a lot of hope for him.  The other thing about him that bothered me, was an article not long after he was drafted when he pitched in Sarasota and he was complaining about autograph hounds and how he wants to be left alone.  I know a lot of athletes feel that way, but an 18 year old rookie?

I think the Reds and Bailey are much better off if he works out his stuff in the minors.  It would be a huge blow to his pysche if he came up here and got rocked and hurt the Reds in the pennant chase.

As bittersweet as I feel about Germano/Ward for Lohse/Cormier, you have to like what's happened so far today to bolster the Reds chances THIS YEAR.

The Reds have improved their 2006 club...no arguing that.

The Cards and the wildcard contenders have done nothing so far (although something will certainly happen).

Edwin has not been traded, as feared by several of us. Neither have Bruce or Bailey (and I'd be absolutely SHOCKED if they were...).

All in all, you can't be too disappointed at this point. Actually I think we should be somewhat pleased at how this has gone...so far.

I think you're all way over-inferring in the suggestions about Bailey's attitude.  Every hard-throwing pitcher has to get over the idea that he can get people out with his fastball.  Why?  Because to that point he's always been able to do that.  That's why we have the minor leagues.  And I'm not happy about what's been accomplished today, although at least so far K hasn't dealt EE (But there's still two hours).  If you want to know why I don't think we've accomplished anything for the organization, take a close look at Ward's numbers:  .97 WHIP, .188 BA against.  Believe me, the Twins knew exactly what they were doing in this deal.

I don't see why the Reds can't win the Central.  The Cardinals rotation isn't very good, it's winnable but the Reds are going to have to start beating the Doug Davis' of the world and stop relying on Juan Castro's bat in the 9th inning.  This upcoming homestand is huge for the Reds.  The Dodgers have Kent and Nomar out and the Braves have chipper on the DL, if we can take at least 4 of 6 of those games, we're in a good position to take on the Cards.  Now if only Krivsky could get us a starter.  If Jason Schmidt isn't doing anything this week...

So far all quiet on the Reds front.  I can't imagine the Reds not doing something else, you don't want your trade day to end w/ the acquisition of Lohse do you?  That doesn't exactly put fans in the seats this week.  A lot of names haven't been moved yet, that probably should be.  Lieber, Tom Gordon, Roberto Hernandez, and a few others are stuck on teams going no where, it would be foolish if they don't get moved somewhere.  I think the last half hour is going to be really busy.

Good trade for mets.

Ken Rosenthal reports that the Dodgers have acquired Greg Maddux.

The Cubs have reached a tentative deal to send Greg Maddux to the Dodgers in exchange for infielder Cesar Izturis, FOXSports.com has learned.

The deal requires the commissioner's approval because it involves a cash transaction of more than $1 million going from the Cubs to the Dodgers.

but the Nationals have called up Ryan Wagner.  Watch him be lights out!

The Rockies have sent 1st baseman Ryan Shealy and right-handed reliever Scott Dohmann to the Royals for left-hander Jeremy Affeldt and Class AAA right-hander Denny Bautista.

Householder said: They traded a 28-year old every-day (although debatably so, since he hasn't started for a full season yet) outfielder with some pop (Nady) and got back a 5th starter with a lot of upside (Perez) and one of the better relievers on the trading block (Hernandez).

Think the Pirates would have taken Kearns instead of Nady?  I would have, in a heartbeat.

Think Krivsky would trade Kearns for Perez and Hernandez now?  You bet.  He would have shored up the bullpen and possibly solved his 5th starter problem."

Krivsky made a very bold move when he traded for relief help, but he said it then, he made the move to win the next 16 games BEFORE the deadline.  That's 10% of the season.  The Reds went something like 10-6 down that stretch.  There were a lot of close games in that stretch, did it help having options other than Weathers or Coffey?  YES.  Did help that the opposition didn't see the same pitchers from us over and over?  YES.  Look at the Rockies in that four game set, they sent out Mesa and Martin almost,if not every, night for that series.  They fooled the Reds a couple times then they got hammered.  That's what happens when you only have a couple of guys to go to.  If the Reds would have had a bad 16 games, we wouldn't be where we are now, which is ahead in the card.

As far as Oliver Perez being our 5th starter, he's terrible.  He's Kyle Lohse bad or worse.  If the Reds traded Kearns for Oliver Perez and Hernandez the same people would be crying about that trade.

Krivsky has had to make some tough moves, I don't like all of them, but if Bowden, O'Brien, or Bob Quinn were here they wouldn't please us all the time.  The Reds are a team everyone picked for the basement and over 100 games into the year they are in line for a playoff spot, how can you complain about that?

Let's all stop complaining about Kearns and what might have been and enjoy the stretch run.

They say his fastball has no movement on it, that he has not enough control of his curve yet; Patience, fellas, patience.

I would guess Standridge gets sent down, for reasons listed:

1. Shack's given up no runs in his last four outings.
   
2. Standridge would be better utilized as a starter in Louisville, and maybe comeback as a 5th starter at some point, if all goes well with him.
   
3. Lohse will fill in as a fifth starter and mop up reliever to eat innings. That would have been Standridge's role, supposedly, when Mays was DFA'd. But they dont have confidence yet in Standridge as a starter.
   
4. Keeping Shack means the Red's would be loaded with short middle relievers. Bray, Coffey, Majewski, Weathers, Cormier, Shackelford.