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Around SBN: Jerry Sandusky's Wife Tries To Run A Reporter Over

Reds have traded Kearns and Lopez to Washington

More to come.

Reds get:

Bill Bray
Gary Majewski
Royce Clayton
Brendan Harris
Daryl Thompson

Washington gets:

Austin Kearns
Felipe Lopez
Ryan Wagner

This has apparently been reported by 700WLW.

[Update]: Just got an email. Bergolla and Denorfia are being called up for tonight to replace Kearns and Lopez. Majewski, Clayton and Bray will be in uniform tomorrow night.

There will be a press conference at 4:30, you'll be able to hear it on Reds.com or at 700 WLW.

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GARY MAJEWSKI!?
Bill Bray!? These guys combined have pitched less than 80 innings this season for the Nats. We traded Austin Kearns for this?

Krivsky better be right.

by Ash on Jul 13, 2006 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oops. They're closers, that's about right.
Ignore that comment. I was thinking starter innings for some reason...

by Ash on Jul 13, 2006 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kearns
was nothing special.  He was never going to live up to hopes.  Lopez sucked.

by mattg on Jul 13, 2006 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree.
Now he's going to be something very special in Washington.

by Ash on Jul 13, 2006 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree
Kearns is one of the top 5 RF in the NL.

And Lopez, while not a superstar, did not suck.  He just batted right-handed too often.

by Slyde on Jul 13, 2006 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ha!
Already trying to convince yourself so you don't feel the pain?  

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reds
Are the Reds giving up on this team?They just trade 3 players with potential and did not get much back.All I hear is how the Nats are getting rid of all these players.Are you sure that Livan Hernandez is not in the trade?Are line-up just got so much worse.

by gnarley on Jul 13, 2006 3:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Krivsky
In Wayne I trust!

by mattg on Jul 13, 2006 3:53 PM EDT reply actions  

As a Reds fan
As a Reds fan, after I read the news of the trade, why does my rear hurt?

I think Bowden just fleeced the Reds. I feel dirty.

by jmcclain19 on Jul 13, 2006 3:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Royce Clayton
why would he trade for a player that he is just going to DFA in a month anyway?

by Slyde on Jul 13, 2006 3:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Fire Krivksy.
Give me back Dan O'Brien. Give me back Jim Bowden. He got a utility infielder, a useless old guy in Clayton, a reliever whose ERA doesn't match up with his WHIP, and two reliever specs who have already had injury problems.

by Geki on Jul 13, 2006 3:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Hacked
I can't believe this is a real trade.

Maybe Kearns and Lopez are at the center of a performance-enhancing-drug cartel?

by Eric Hinz on Jul 13, 2006 4:02 PM EDT reply actions  

In Wayne I trust...
You're prepared to fire him after the rest of his moves have worked.

Now there is no excuse not to call up Denorfia.

by bigjas on Jul 13, 2006 4:04 PM EDT reply actions  

I'd be ok with this
If it was only Kearns and Wagner or Lopez and Wagner. I'll keep faith in Krivsky though. Interesting to see who is gone though? Weathers? Yan?

by Stevo154 on Jul 13, 2006 4:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Why Bergolla instead of Olmedo?
Olmedo's stats are much better, no?

by pw on Jul 13, 2006 4:06 PM EDT reply actions  

My guess
Bergolla is only up for tonight.  He'll be replaced by Clayton when he gets here.  He probably has more options than Olmedo.

by Slyde on Jul 13, 2006 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Olmedo
Got hurt right before the all star break.  I think he injured a neck or shoulder.  I dont think its major, just maybe a 15-Day DL incident

by MixFMKyle on Jul 13, 2006 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Olmedo
The Reds have alreayd exercised Olmedo's option this year, so it doesn't cost them a thing to call him back up.  It must be the injury.

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trade
Come on, everyone knows Clayton isn't our future SS...  he's just a stop gap type of guy.  Harris could eventually fill that hole.  This team needed pitching and that's what they got.  And they're all pretty young. They got #5, #6, and #7 of the Nat's top propects.    

by mattg on Jul 13, 2006 4:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Why not defend the Titanic?
Really?  Royce Clayton?  You're happy with this?  Aren't you worried he's going to take time away from Juan Castro?

by cggarb on Jul 13, 2006 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Trade
It would not even make since if Lopez and Clayton were not in the deal.This trade is bullshit.

RF-Freel
2nd-Phillips
CF-Griffey
1st-Hatteburg
LF-Dunn
3rd-EDE
C-Ross
SS-Clayton

Look how much worse we are

Belise
Standridge
Bray
Mejewski
Weathers
Coffey
Mercker
Everyday EDDIE

Wow this trade sucks

It said on ESPN that Mejewski,Bray,Clayton would be there for the game tonight.

Still one of the guys in the bullpen must go

by gnarley on Jul 13, 2006 4:09 PM EDT reply actions  

BP slides over to SS?
Hope he was working over the break!

by pw on Jul 13, 2006 4:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Nah
I bet we see Castro and Clayton making plenty of outs at shortstop (on both sides of the ball).

by Slyde on Jul 13, 2006 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

my reaction
my reaction to every move Krivsky has made since becoming GM was that the move was bad and why would K do this?  He has proven me wrong every time.  I have to trust him.

... even though it feels like we've really taken one here...

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 4:15 PM EDT reply actions  

trade
No doubt phillips goes to short, hopefully freel to 2nd.  If not, Clayton is an upgrade on defense.
As for ya'll going off on Krivsky..can you wait please.  This is the first year we actually have some hope and a GM who is TRYING.
Lopez was not strong on defense. Austin's track record in terms of staying healthy has not been good.
Like most trades of this sort, we need to give it time.  I will say that having some new arms for the pen will be refreshing....

by Davey for Hall of Fame on Jul 13, 2006 4:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Bowden just keeps killing us.
Only kidding but really so where are Soriano/Guillen going?

by Stevo154 on Jul 13, 2006 4:16 PM EDT reply actions  

question
does this seal the fate of Adam Dunn?

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 4:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Yes
It keeps him in Cincinnati
"Your shower shoes have fungus on them. You'll never make it to the bigs with fungus on your shower shoes." - Crash Davis

by Caleb on Jul 13, 2006 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lose the "In Krivsky we trust" shit.
He got lucky on a half season with Arroyo, and I still think that trade is gonna end badly for the Reds when people figure out Arroyo. Sure, Ross has been nice, but he's had like 120 ABs. Phillips was a steal, I'll give him that, but he needs to keep it up. We're gonna be starting some combination of Aurilia, Clayton, and Castro at shortstop every day. Might as well trade Dunn for Scott Eyre and Juan Pierre and Encarnacion for Braden Looper. This kills the team now. This kills the team in the future. If he really wanted to trade Kearns and Lopez, he could've gotten so much more for them. Our offense is suddenly no better than average, our bullpen is still ass, and we still have a crappy rotation. Bray is a relief spec. Majewski won't have an ERA under 4 in GAB. Thompson has already had arm problems, is nowhere near the majors, and will probably be a reliever. Harris is a back-up infielder. ROYCE CLAYTON.

Kiss my ass, Krivsky.

by Geki on Jul 13, 2006 4:20 PM EDT reply actions  

here's the rub
If he could have gotten more, then why didn't he?

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

this trade BLOWS
Here is my guess as to what happens to the lineup
1B-Hatteburg/Aurilla
2B-Freel/Phillips
SS-Freel/Phillips
3B- EE or Aurilla depending on Narron's mood
C-Ross
RF-Denorfia
CF-Griffey
LF-Dunn

With maybe a slightly better bullpen. Is Krivsky serious with this? Two young, talented players starting to come into their prime, and we get who? Trade Dunn and his not so clutch hitting and no glove for these no name parts, but waste kearns and his defense and a switch hitting all-star from a year ago at short? Jim Bowden was probably drunk in his covertible, fighting with spouse and decided to prank kricsky with this offer and I guess he accepted. I hade faith in wayne...now? I REALLY hope he knows whats going on here b/c I don't. Doesn't a G.M. have to run these trades through the fair trade mode on MVP baseball for PS2 to make sure it makes any sense at all?

by bmaxwell13 on Jul 13, 2006 4:21 PM EDT reply actions  

effing pessimism
"Trade Dunn and his not so clutch hitting and no glove for these no name parts, but waste kearns and his defense and a switch hitting all-star from a year ago at short?"

Are you serious?

Dunn's not-so-clutch hitting? Have you been watching any Reds games lately? Forget his incredible "clutch hitting", the guy has the team's highest OPS for qualifiers. He's slugging .547 and his on-base is .369, despite his low batting average. Get over it, he is the BEST players the Reds have. No, his defense isn't superb. But his bat is one of the best in the game.

Yes, Lopez was an All-Star last year, for what that's worth (nothing), but his offense, if you haven't noticed, has been less than superb. Among everyday starters, his .749 OPS is lowest on the team. He's really never been much more than a spare part.

I'm not thrilled about Kearns departing, but Denorfia is the real deal. He will be as good, if not better, and he was never going to get a chance if one of the outfielders wasn't shipped. Clayton is not an important part of the deal; maybe Krivsky will trade him to a team desperate for a quality defensive shortstop. Doesn't matter, Lopez's absence frees up a spot for Freel to start every day.

As for the arms, they're young, but they look like they could be really good. Bray, if you'll take the time to look, hasn't give up an earned run in his last 6 appearances, and Majewski has a respectable whip of 1.34 (and dropping), which makes him a significant upgrade from almost everybody else in the bull pen. And he's young; he'll probably get better.

This team was going nowhere without some arms. Now we may have some. I'm happy Krivsky is trying.

by boobs on Jul 13, 2006 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trades
There has to be another trade coming for the Nats.
or
Kearns RF
Soraino CF
Guillen LF
Nick Johnson 1st
Vidro 2nd
Lopez SS
Zimmerman 3rd

They have a better lineup then us

by gnarley on Jul 13, 2006 4:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Guillen will go
he's been on the block.  
This is my corn. You people are guests in my corn.

by Daedalus on Jul 13, 2006 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

nats
that is a better everyday lineup than 80% of baseball
"Your shower shoes have fungus on them. You'll never make it to the bigs with fungus on your shower shoes." - Crash Davis

by Caleb on Jul 13, 2006 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Net gain/loss
As with any trade, you have to look at the net gain and loss TO THE TEAM.  Certainly if you look at it position by position, we look like we got fleeced.  But, if these bullpen guys can get the job done (and maybe one of them converts to a starter down the road), Deno and Clayton put up numbers close to Kearns and Lopez, then the trade makes sense.  At the very least, I appreciate that Krivsky's trades have all had a common theme so far, to improve the pitching staff.  I think we have the organizational depth to absorb losing Kearns, but with Lopez I'm not so sure.  Leave Phillips where he is.  
Sultan of Swaff

by Sultan of Swaff on Jul 13, 2006 4:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Geki
You think too highly of Kearns and Lopez.

RA, Clayton and Castro will just be stop gap SS's for the rest of the year.

Harris is a stud.

More will come....

by mattg on Jul 13, 2006 4:22 PM EDT reply actions  

A 'stud'?
He plays 2B, not shortstop, is only one year younger than Lopez, and only has one really good year in the minors (2004, at AAA).

Howie Kendrick is stud. Harris... not so much.

by Splat on Jul 13, 2006 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nats
Yeah sure, the Nats have a better lineup on paper, that's what Bowden is good at.  What he sucks at is assembling a team that has a healty balance of pitching and offense.  He didn't do squat to improve his chances of making the playoffs now or down the road.  But did the Reds?  Without a doubt.
Sultan of Swaff

by Sultan of Swaff on Jul 13, 2006 4:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Lopez was not in the long-term plans
His fielding is not what Krivsky and Narron want, and he's a Scott Boras client. He was the most likely one to go. I'm surprised they traded Kearns now, but they must feel Denorfia will be almost as good at least until Bruce is ready.

by pw on Jul 13, 2006 4:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Well put
I agree.  I thought Lopez was going to be gone because of the defense and being a Boras client.  I'm just shocked that Kearns was in the same deal and there weren't any clearly great names coming back.

I think that Wayne was just bothered so much by the bullpen and defense that he went all out to try to fix it.  I just hope that he didn't hurt the offense too bad in the process.

by Slyde on Jul 13, 2006 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

The relievers are young
That's a good feature of the trade. Majewski's SO/BB ratio isn't great: 34/ 25 in 55 IP.

by pw on Jul 13, 2006 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah
Bray was a 2004 draft pick that was rushed through their farm system.  He never really had a good ERA, but he did strike out a ton of hitters - 10.55 per 9 IP in Triple-A last year.  But then he's only struck out 6.3 per 9 this year in DC while walking 3.5 per 9 in 23 IP.

by Slyde on Jul 13, 2006 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not at all what I was expecting
"Players have two things to do. Play and keep their mouths shut." -Sparky Anderson

by boohiss on Jul 13, 2006 4:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Brendan Harris is nowhere near a stud.
He's not even any younger than Lopez, he has no speed, and his power has not advanced as he has advanced. He's a utilityman.

by Geki on Jul 13, 2006 4:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah
I hate to say it, but I gotta agree with Geki. :)

Harris will be 26 next month and while his numbers are okay for a MIF, he's not someone that makes this deal all worthwhile.

by Slyde on Jul 13, 2006 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Harris...
was just icing on the cake, so was Clayton.  This is all about pitching, specifically bullpen pitching.  Wayne said (in so many words) that this shows the high cost out there for pitching.

by mattg on Jul 13, 2006 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Clayton
isn't he more like vomit on the cake?

I understand his defense will be an upgrade, and I don't mind that.  But his offense is abysmal.  He has never had a league average OPS.  Ever.  And the last 6 seasons have never been over 84% of the league average.  He better be a defensive wizard with that kind of offensive production.

by Slyde on Jul 13, 2006 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

What I meant by that is...
it wasn't about Harris or Clayton.  It was about the pen.    

by mattg on Jul 13, 2006 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand
I'm just concerned that the Reds have lost too much offense to be helped by what they got back.

The game is a balancing act, and the Reds are already on the negative side of the run differential.  Losing Kearns and Lopez is a lot of offense.  I hope they did enough to balance that out.  I think Deno will do an admirable job balancing the loss of Kearns, but I don't expect him to keep putting up the same kind of numbers that Kearns has been doing.  But who knows, he's been pretty hot in Triple-A.

I'm just not sure I see this netting out as a positive for the Reds.

by Slyde on Jul 13, 2006 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree...
but we can't look at it as a static situation.  Who knows what else is in the works or what will happen down the road.  We wanted the bullpen and defense improved and this is what it cost...    

by mattg on Jul 13, 2006 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

what article is Krivsky referring to?
"Players have two things to do. Play and keep their mouths shut." -Sparky Anderson

by boohiss on Jul 13, 2006 4:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Free Agents
Are Kearns and Lopez both free agents at the end of the season?

by Stevo154 on Jul 13, 2006 4:35 PM EDT reply actions  

No
I think they both had one year of arbitration left.

by Slyde on Jul 13, 2006 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

How does our bullpen now stack up?
Since this is the hand we're now dealt, do we now at least have an average bullpen, in your all's opinion?

by biggsd on Jul 13, 2006 4:36 PM EDT reply actions  

well
On the surface this is a hard trade to swallow talent for talent. BTW Harris does not look like a stud maybe ok but not a stud. As some were pointing out the net gain might not be so bad.  Denfornia might actually be a better hitter than Kearns. IF this acutally upgrades the bullpen it might work out. It also depends on the how the replacement IF do replacing Lopez's offense.  It doesn't seem to much to consider that they would be better defensively.

by DisplacedFan on Jul 13, 2006 4:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Denorfia
This is the big chance that everyone has been yelling for for Chris.  Let's hope he makes good!
"Players have two things to do. Play and keep their mouths shut." -Sparky Anderson

by boohiss on Jul 13, 2006 4:38 PM EDT reply actions  

"Clayton has a young body"
GM's make the greatest comments...

by biggsd on Jul 13, 2006 4:39 PM EDT reply actions  

I forgot
too mention the cost of the bullpen this past year.decent pitchers aren't going to come cheap.

by DisplacedFan on Jul 13, 2006 4:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Even if the Reds make the playoffs...
This is still a bad trade. Take out either Kearns or Lopez and I still wouldn't have been happy with this deal. Despite what hopeful fans might want to think, this is not a playoff team, and we just turned our only strength into something that's very average. It doesn't matter if we sneak into the wild card. Bray and Thompson are the 8th and 10th best prospects in the Nationals incredibly poor system. Harris wasn't good enough to beat out Clayton for a starting job in Washington, so he probably won't be good enough here, either. This was legalized rape, plain and simple.

by Geki on Jul 13, 2006 4:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Playoff team
Most years, I think Geki is right, this would not be a playoff team.  But the NL is down this year.  Our division is down this year.  In terms of plus/minus runs in this deal, I think we may have gained more runs (by preventative pitching) than we gave up (in hitting).  This is a plus for the year and might be enough to solidify a race for the wild card or even the central.

By the way, anyone know how long Bray/Mejewski have left on their contracts?

by ben nevis on Jul 13, 2006 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

service time
Bray's in his first Major League year.  Majewski played about 1.5 seasons before this year.  I don't know if he's one of those weird ones like Arroyo or not.

by Slyde on Jul 13, 2006 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

plenty
Majewski has only pitched about 2 years, and this is Bray's first year.

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Debuts
Bray debuted this year, and Majewski in 2004.

by pw on Jul 13, 2006 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also...
I wouldn't think that Krivsky is done working for the year either.  I expect more moves before the end of the month.

by ben nevis on Jul 13, 2006 4:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Redszne
crashed... this is officially bigger than the Sean Casey deal, lol

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 5:00 PM EDT reply actions  

What's the goal here?
I don't give a rat's behind if we sneak into the wild card only to be swept in 3 games.  This trade makes sense only if it helps get them to a World Series.  To shoot for anything less is counterproductive.  This trade MIGHT accomplish that a number of ways.  1. Freeing up a spot for a less expensive player (Bruce, Deno)  2. Spending that saved arbitration money on pitching in the offseason (Lopez). 3. Get the bullpen younger and better for the long term.
Sultan of Swaff

by Sultan of Swaff on Jul 13, 2006 5:03 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't get it
Just don't. I mean, giving up Lopez and Kearns equals a good pitching prospect - at least.

My god, he listened to Daugherty.

by bobestes on Jul 13, 2006 5:04 PM EDT reply actions  

New pitchers
I'm not too excited about the K/BB ratios from the new guys. Not even 3/1, the industry standard. This doesn't bode well for a relief pitcher, but maybe they have starting in their future.
Sultan of Swaff

by Sultan of Swaff on Jul 13, 2006 5:06 PM EDT reply actions  

3 to 1?
I thought only guys like Brandon Webb and Derek Lowe had those kind of G/F numbers?

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

this pessimism
is disgusting. We were never going to improve our bullpen if we didn't move some guys. We've got a replacement for kearns waiting in the wings. Freel now has a spot to play every day. Our bullpen was so bad to begin with, that it is now significantly better. This is going to look like a really good deal, come the end of the season. Watch.

by boobs on Jul 13, 2006 5:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks...
for a breath of common sense!

by mattg on Jul 13, 2006 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well
I think the shock is that the Reds traded both of their prime Major League trading pieces in one trade and didn't get anyone that definitively upgraded the bullpen.  Both guys are young and could be very good in the future, but there are plenty of questions that surround them in my eyes - not the least of which is their walk rate.  I'm willing to give Krivsky the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not that impressed by the bullpen being fixed just because they can't be as bad as what's there now.

And I don't think this changes Freel's role at all.  He'll play the same amount that he plays already.  Clayton is the everyday shortstop.

by Slyde on Jul 13, 2006 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

common sense
This is probably the NICEST thing anyone can possibly say about the trade while still being technically correct.  

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you kidding?
It's not pessimistic to disagree with trading two all-star caliber starters for middle relief pitching.

by bobestes on Jul 13, 2006 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

"All-Star"
is just a term. Looking at what he's done, Lopez is not an essential piece to this team. And Kearns, yea, he's great, but so will Denorfia be.

I doubt seriously that Krivsky would have traded Kearns for the middle relievers he got if he thought he could get something better.

by boobs on Jul 13, 2006 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just because Freel has a spot...
...doesn't mean he'll play every day. He had a spot most of last year and didn't play every day. Gary Majewski and Bill Bray need to turn into Mariano Rivera and Dennis Eckersley for this to be a good deal, and that's not likely. Bray's stuff is nothing special, Majewski walks too many guys and is moving from RFK to GAB. An ERA under 4 from him would shock me.

by Geki on Jul 13, 2006 5:11 PM EDT reply actions  

I disagree
Majewski and Bray don't have to be lights out, though I'd love that.  They have to be below 4.00.  By the way, Majewski's ERA is only 2.73 away vs 4.56 at RFK this year.

Freel will not play everyday, but I'm OK with that.  Play him when he's hot and sit him occasionally for Castro/Clayton/Aurillia.

by ben nevis on Jul 13, 2006 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

lopez
the worst defensive SS in the NL, putting up #s that would only be good for a middle infielder.

maybe his value wasn't as high as we think?

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 5:13 PM EDT reply actions  

I was thinking this
I think our of him maybe overrated.

by DisplacedFan on Jul 13, 2006 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

um
I think our view of him is overrated.

by DisplacedFan on Jul 13, 2006 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fans...
always over value "their" players.

by mattg on Jul 13, 2006 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

mattg
You must be a Nationals fan.

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

that may be true
but I think he's better than he played this year.  I will concede though that he has been kind of flaky on the field.  I'm more bothered by the fact that both Kearns and Lopez were in the deal and they didn't get more.  Maybe I'm over-rating these guys, but it seems like there should have been more available for them.  I'm willing to admit that I could be wrong though.

by Slyde on Jul 13, 2006 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

the thing that can't be explained
is why wouldn't Krivsky have gotten more if he could have?  That's why its hard to judge trades.

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed
Maybe he could, maybe he couldn't.  That's something we'll never know.

by Slyde on Jul 13, 2006 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

For what it's worth
Lopez was 12th in VORP for shortstops in the MLB (6th in the NL).  He's ahead of Eckstein, Greene, Rollins, and Furcal - though VORP obviously doesn't take defense into account.

by Slyde on Jul 13, 2006 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

that
would probably make him a below average SS, then, all things considered?

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't know
BP's FRAR (fielding runs above replacement) and FRAR2:

Lopez (82.3 adjusted games): 4 FRAR, 10 FRAR2
Clayton (81.1 adjusted games): 5 FRAR, 11 FRAR2

I don't know how much to trust FRAR, but given the huge difference in offensive output (Lopez - 16.7 VORP, Clayton - 3.1 VORP), I'm concerned that Clayton isn't THAT much of an upgrade on defense.

Anybody having any insight as to the value of FRAR and FRAR2?

by Slyde on Jul 13, 2006 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Too bad...
Wayne couldn't have thrown Joe Mays into the package.

by mattg on Jul 13, 2006 5:18 PM EDT reply actions  

God damn...
Denorfia better be good.

by bobestes on Jul 13, 2006 5:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Its All About Pitching and Defense
BOTTOM LINE: This improves our bullpen and defense.  And it frees up space for Freel and Denofria to blossom.  And the best Majewski stat:
* 2005-06 = 141 IP, 6 HR Allowed

by jambolyajones on Jul 13, 2006 5:24 PM EDT reply actions  

One of those
A walk-off 3 Run Bomb to Jr.

by MixFMKyle on Jul 13, 2006 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

freel
I think he's finished blossoming by now, but yes, if its eventually Phillips at SS, Freel at 2B, and Deno in RF, we could still be alright.

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

No it doesn't
Thanks to this trade, the pitchers now have to give up about 4 fewer runs per game to win.

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Shocked and depressed! I think it's a salary dump
At first glance I can't make sense of this trade at all.  This looks very one-sided.  I really like(d) Kearns and Lopez, and it looks like all we got in return for two very very solid everyday players is two unproven middle relievers and a washed up infielder.

Salary dump in preparation to resigning Harrang and Phillips?

I really don't see this trade making sense on a talent level.

Kearns departure makes room for Denorfia, but that is not an even swap by any measure.  We'll have to clear out two spots in the bullpen for the new additions, thus in the trade we will also loose two of the following (Standridge, Weathers, Mercker, May or Yan).  No options in this group to the best of my knowledge.  And then throw in Wagner?  I would not be at all surprised to see Wagner get his act back together in the next year or two.

I just do not see this trade panning out to additional wins.  I don't think it helps us this year, and I don't think it helps us next year, and I don't think it helps team chemistry (Kearns had a lot of friends on the team and Lopez was universally seen as a good team oriented man.)  I really think it may have been motivated by looming financial concerns.  Kearns and Lopez would have cost the Reds about $8 million next year, about what they will have to pay Harrang to keep him.

No, I really dislike the trade.  I really hate it.  I want to pretend it didn't happen.  Damn I hate that this happened!  It is a damn dumb destructive stupid O'Brienesqe deal.

by James Quinn on Jul 13, 2006 5:25 PM EDT reply actions  

No way
this was a salary dump at the halfway point when your in contention.  No way.

by ben nevis on Jul 13, 2006 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pre-emptive salary dump
Ben, what I meant is that it was a pre-emptive salary dump.  Harrang and Lopez are both into their arbitration years.  To resign them for next year would have cost a good chunk.  Harrang will probably want a 3+ year deal for something in the range of $4 or $5 million a year.  Lopez can be given a one year deal, but it will be between $2 and $3 million depending on how he finishes up.  Kearns will also be looking for a multi-year deal, probably in the $4 million a year range, maybe even more if he finishes strong.  Finally, Phillips will need to be paid to return.  I am not sure if he will be arbitration eligible, but if he is he will ask for around $3 million to return.  So there were a lot of Reds coming into their money years on the roster.

I don't know this, but I think when this group was looked over the Reds decided they could only afford to keep some of them.   Apparently Kearns was seen as expendable, and surprising to me, so was Lopez.  Kearns can more easily be replaced.  There is no one in the Reds system that can replace Lopez.  No one that comes close.

I notice that, besides the Royce Clayton throw-in, none of the players acquired come into their money next year.  The move will save the Reds about $2 million this year, and probably save them $6-8 million next year.  I figure this money will then go to Harang and Phillips.

So, if looked at in this 2006/2007 perspective, I think this deal may well have been motivated by the pocketbook.  How else can you explain it?  No way is this an even deal if talent is the bottom line.  I've looked over the acquisitions at the Baseball Cube, and...

Brendan Harris (26 years old) - Nothing impressive here.  Above average minor league bat but nothing eye popping.  Given his age, I doubt he will ever develop into an above average MLB player.

Gary Majewski - (26 years old) Pretty good minor league numbers.  Pretty good 2005 MLB numbers.  Bad 2006 to this point.  Looks like a decent bullpen pitcher but I don't see a very high ceiling on this guy.

Bill Bray (23 years old) - Probably the best acquisition.  Very high upside on this guy who has risen through the minors very quickly and with very impressive numbers.  He is the only addition I am excited about.

Daryl Thompson (20 years old) - Very young and has accomplished nothing very impressive to day.  Might be a talent, but he is raw and, even if he pans out, years from contributing to the club.

And we all know about Royce Clayton.  Hell, we already have Castro on the team.  Did he need a twin?  Nothing, no reason for him to ever play a game for the Reds.  Reds should lock the club house door when he arrives and pretend they are not home.

Truth is, this trade might have been worth EITHER Lopez OR Kearns, with Wagner included, but in no way was it worth both, ... unless the 2007 budget was the deciding factor.  

by James Quinn on Jul 13, 2006 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm happy to lose Lopez.... Kearns is the question
No brilliance added to this conversation by me.  I can't stand having a SS who's defense sucks.  So... no loss there.  Kearns loss is the one that's hard to swallow.  But if the Reds have two potential stud OFs waiting in the wings in Denorfia and Bruce, then I guess it was just a matter of when you'd pull the trigger on Kearns.

Let's face it.  We were going to trade Kearns or Dunn this summer.  The question is what could we get back.  My guess is that we couldn't find anyone to take Dunn for a big prize, so we dealt Kearns for an area of serious need.  Maybe if we were a big more patient.....

by TheC on Jul 13, 2006 5:25 PM EDT reply actions  

boobs....
I agree completely.  Youdaman!
War Reds.  Its nice to have a GM/Owner who are at least TRYING!

by Davey for Hall of Fame on Jul 13, 2006 5:26 PM EDT reply actions  

there it is
This thread just posted to my cpu after hitting refresh for the past hour. Weird.

My take.  Ill wait and see, but it feels kinda like when the Reds traded Wetteland for Greene.  I really wanted that trade to work out also, but itnever did.

The Reds don't need Clayton, and Harris' celing is lower than Royce's.  If Bray or Majewski were flamethrowers with control I'd be more optimistic.

That said, I'm sure Kriv is sold on this deal..r he would have never included AK and FeLo.  I know Leatherpants asked for Wagner as a throw in, too bad he didn't ask for LaRue also.

by ohiobobcat on Jul 13, 2006 5:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Bray
he has to have something going for him, he was a 1st round pick (13th overall).

and Majewski throws pretty hard, I think.

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Krivsky took it in the heinie
Bowden's laughing his ass off.

And every non-high observer will agree that this trade was a first class ripoff.

by cggarb on Jul 13, 2006 5:29 PM EDT reply actions  

So what you're saying is...
Krivsky and his scouts, who are paid to build a winning baseball team, purposely made a bad trade?

by mattg on Jul 13, 2006 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who's on first?
My stab at the post-trade defensive alignment:

C:  Ross
1B:  Hatteberg/Aurilia
2B:  BP/Freel
3B:  EdE/Freel
SS:  Clayton/S.F. Castro (ugh--Narron would never be creative enough to use BP here and start Freel at 2nd)
LF:  Dunn
CF:  Junior/Denorfia/Freel
RF:  Denorfia/Freel

Compared to what we had before, we're effectively trading Lopez and Kearns for a mix of Freel and Denorfia, plus Clayton.  Overall, this depends to a certain extent on Denorfia and Freel stepping up and giving the Reds at least a .750-.800 OPS to make up for the offensive zero that is Royce Clayton (think Q-Crapp, and you are getting close).  Maybe the errors decrease, and you wind up with a slight net loss overall at SS.

The b***pen might actually have a chance of giving up fewer than five and a half runs every nine innings, although Bill Bray and his 1.43 WHIP in a pitcher's park (.692/.857 home/away OPS against) does not seem to offer much help immediately, compared to what was already there.  When he's on the road, he basically turns everyone into Ken Griffey Jr.  Seems like he's there for the potential, more than anything else, since mlb.com says he is the Nationals' top pitching prospect.

Majewski could help, but he seems to walk too many people.  Nevertheless, over the last three years, he seems to pitch better and walk fewer batters away than home, so the home/road splits are not worrisome for him.

I don't think I like this trade, unless the prospects that we got are really stellar, because the major leaguers are leaving me more than a bit underwhelmed.  Krivsky has traded two starters (and above-average ones, at that) for an OK reliever, a not-so-good reliever with potential, a weak hitting shortstop and two players I haven't heard of.

Don't mind me...just pitching to contact, that's all...

by Paul Householder on Jul 13, 2006 5:30 PM EDT reply actions  

I can't wait....
I can't wait for all you nay-sayers to eat crow.  You better not show your face around here when the Reds are in 1st place at the beginning of August.

by jambolyajones on Jul 13, 2006 5:31 PM EDT reply actions  

I sure hope your right
and if you are Krivsky will never be questioned by me again.

by MixFMKyle on Jul 13, 2006 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

optimistic
Making up four games in two weeks is no simple feat. I like the optimism, though, it beats the alternative.  

I think another SP is needed, and Homer will strengthen the bullpen around 8/30.

by ohiobobcat on Jul 13, 2006 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hope you're right
about Homer.  But I heard they only want him to throw 150-60 innings this year.  He's already thrown something like 80?

by mattg on Jul 13, 2006 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think
we've made up 4 games twice this season already.

by joshetc on Jul 13, 2006 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

naysayers
What about JD, I know he hasn't officially announced his feelings about the deal, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't like it.  If he is wrong, is he still allowed to come back? :)

I don't think there's anything wrong with hating this trade.  As far as I can tell, most of the world thinks the Reds lost it.  Here's one example.

by Slyde on Jul 13, 2006 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

speechless
"Your shower shoes have fungus on them. You'll never make it to the bigs with fungus on your shower shoes." - Crash Davis

by Caleb on Jul 13, 2006 5:44 PM EDT reply actions  

auditions
tonight for who is sent packing tomorrow?

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 5:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Wayne
I hope he realizes we still need another starting pitcher

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 5:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Twins
I still think a deal is coming with Minnesota.
"Your shower shoes have fungus on them. You'll never make it to the bigs with fungus on your shower shoes." - Crash Davis

by Caleb on Jul 13, 2006 5:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Kriv
Anyone think Kriv might take an occasional peak at the blog?  

El Guapo and the two Nats(sound like a bullpen moniker) are acquired right when the RR Nation was pulling out their hair.

I sure would like to hear O'Brien's take on the past two trades. And the selection of Stubbs.  Just for kicks.  

by ohiobobcat on Jul 13, 2006 5:49 PM EDT reply actions  

peaking at the blog
Of course I ... er ... he checks the blogs from time to time.

by ben nevis on Jul 13, 2006 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry, y'all, but Majewski rocks.
He's had a tough time this year for various reasons, not the least of which has to do with the clubhouse of the Nats and the non-pitching related issues they've had with the bullpen.  The bullpen coach, John Wettland, was fired because of these issues.  Majewski is an excellent acquisition.

I have much more to say about this on the only Reds/Nats blog on the planet.

I hate to lose Kearns, but I think we should all wait and see before getting ourselves worked up about it.  And should you forget, I will remind you that our bullpen has single handedly put us at one game over .500 instead of 8 or 9 over where we should be, maybe more.

This is my corn. You people are guests in my corn.

by Daedalus on Jul 13, 2006 5:54 PM EDT reply actions  

ahh...
sister, I've been waiting for your take all afternoon

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thinking about it
I am starting to like this trade alot.I mean it would of been perfect if say Tony Armas Jr was in the trade.We still need 2 starters but Wayne is really good and will make more moves.

by gnarley on Jul 13, 2006 5:58 PM EDT reply actions  

don't like 2 see this-Nationals win deal with Reds
Nationals win deal with Reds
posted: Thursday, July 13, 2006  |  Print Entry

Do you think Jim Bowden took a little pleasure in thoroughly robbing the organization that fired him in 2003? If not, perhaps he should, because he just pushed the Reds to the back of the NL playoff queue, and in the process picked up three players who entered the Reds' organization while he was their GM.
The Nationals were widely expected to be sellers in the July trade market, and that may still come to pass, but in this deal, they took on more salary than they gave up. In exchange for a talented left-handed relief prospect and three spare parts, the Nationals just added an above-average corner outfielder, an above-average shortstop, and a talented right-handed relief prospect. Whether they choose to keep Austin Kearns and Felipe Lopez or move them for younger talent, the Nationals won this deal in a rout.
----------------
Only time will tell if this is something that haunts Reds fans later. What is for sure is that teams with great pitching have the upper hand in every aspect of the game/business. Sadly we are not one of them.

by BryanL on Jul 13, 2006 6:00 PM EDT reply actions  

this guy
who the hell is Keith Law?

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 6:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Ken Rosenthal
quotes Krivsky, who predicted that you naysayers would be saying exactly what you're saying.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5782006

I'm like gnarley, here, the more I think about it, the more I think we'll really be liking this trade come Aug/Sep.

by ben nevis on Jul 13, 2006 6:03 PM EDT reply actions  

The Reds may make the playoffs...
Lopez has been terrible, his offensive productivity over the last two months has been dreadful. I think pitchers have finally figured him out.  Kearns, point blank is replaceable.  

With this trade our bullpen has improved and our offense and defense have not suffered.  Basically, it's not a bad trade.

What this does is gives the Reds a chance to make the playoffs. That's it. They have no chance of beating the Mets or even winning the World Series. Let's be frank.  Hopefully, with a playoff birth it will bring in more revenue, more season tickets, where Wayne can make some runs at quality free agents.

That is what is needed in order make a run at being World Series Champs.

by Clove @ Red Reporter on Jul 13, 2006 6:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Don't forget 1990
No one thought the Reds would beat the Pirates and no one thought they'd beat the A's--you don't have to be the best team to win the World Series... you need good pitching, defense and Billy Hatcher.

by jambolyajones on Jul 13, 2006 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed
2 out of 3 ain't bad.  the deadline is still a few weeks away, so we may get some better pitching.  But we don't have a Rijo on this staff. Or any Nasy Boys.

by Clove @ Red Reporter on Jul 13, 2006 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Matbe with the 1.5 Million the Reds saved
Will go to another Trade for a starter.

LaRue and Brendan Harris and 2 Mil for a starter?  Definate possibility.

I'm also suprised Kriv didnt get one of our catchers, the Nats only have one listed on their 40-Man.

by MixFMKyle on Jul 13, 2006 6:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Yanks sign Ponson
at least one good thing happened today. :)

by Slyde on Jul 13, 2006 6:13 PM EDT reply actions  

For Those of you Upset
Check This Out from VIva El Birdos:
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/

big trade in the division today -- the reds sent felipe lopez, austin kearns, and ryan wagner to washington for a bunch of relief pitchers. one of them, bill bray, is lighting things up at triple a; another is pitching in short-season a ball; and the 3d is gary majewski, who's your basic middle-innings guy.

oh yeah, the reds also got an uninspiring everyday player at short, ie royce clayton, and a backup infielder.

trade seems to make no sense on its face; reds fans are skeptical, to say the least. but check out chris dial's position-by-position defensive rankings, posted just today. felipe lopez ranks dead last among nl shortstops; the reds must have had internal data showing much the same thing re felipe's glovework. now check out his batting splits  -- he can't hit left-handers, and he's not such a great hitter away from GAB. so he's not nearly as great a loss as it might appear on the face of things. kearns is a genuinely good hitter, but the reds can replace him with chris denorfia, who is batting .350 at triple a and has already been recalled. . . . .

let's add it all up: the reds traded from their surplus (offense / home run power) to improve their two major weaknesses, defense and relief pitching. they also got rid of two guys who are heading into their arb-eligible years and likely to tie up more payroll than they are worth. that's a sensible rationale for a deal. it might not work out, and for obvious reasons i hope it doesn't. but if the reds weren't in the cardinals' division, i'd be rooting hard for krivsky to come out ahead on this trade.
=======

Well if you think about it, maybe it does make some sense.

by MixFMKyle on Jul 13, 2006 6:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Way too early to judge
In terms of actual value on the field, I'd say we're breaking even on the trade. Lopez has been a liability this year, both in the field and at the plate. I don't think we should be wringing our hands over a terrible defensive shortstop who is slugging under .400. It's tough to let go of Kearns, but quite frankly, he's never been the same since his shoulder injury. He's not going to see any rapid improvement in Washington. If anything, that park will suppress his numbers. He's a nice player, but I don't think he lived up to his promise as a 1st round draft pick. Point is, he's quite replaceable, and in Denorfia, we have a player who is cheaper, faster, has equal defensive skills and superior on-base skills.

The reason why this trade is upsetting is that you'd think Krivsky could capitalize on the perceived value of Kearns and Lopez. When my brother told me about the trade, I asked him "So...did they get Cordero?" Not because I thought that would be the fair deal, but because I figured that Krivsky would sell Bowden on the perceived value of Lopez and Kearns. Guess JimBow has wised up a bit.

I'm a bit disillusioned that this is all we could get for two of our regular starters, but we have to assume that Krivsky tried his best. Our bullpen  is improved, we didn't lose anything in the field, and we're saving some money, perhaps for another deal. Let's take a deep breath and hope Denorfia is as good as we think he is.

by teb7 on Jul 13, 2006 6:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Denorfia
is the real deal, that is the best part of the trade to me.  I hated to see him languish in AAA.  he's been between .325 and .350 all season.  

by ohiobobcat on Jul 13, 2006 6:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Crack smokers...
..all of you who hasn't vomited yet.

Terrible, terrible trade.  Kearns isn't "replaceable" - he's a 30/30 guy who's a Gold Glove-caliber defender.

The numbers show that Clayton is as bad defensively as Lopez.  At least he hits worse.  And is 10 years older.

Middle relievers are this expensive only when you're out of your mind.  I could see a couple of B+ prospects for Majewski or Bray - but 2 major league starters???

by sidnancy on Jul 13, 2006 6:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Um...
When has Kearns ever hit 30 homers? I'd say that's the absolute limit for him. And there's no way he'd ever steal 30 bases. He has 13 over his entire career! If anyone has 30/30 potential it's Denorfia. He'll most likely be 20/20 with very good OBP and defense equal to if not better than Kearns.

by teb7 on Jul 13, 2006 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kearns 30/30
when was the last time Kearns had a 30/30 year?

by mattg on Jul 14, 2006 7:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Defense improved?
check out chris dial's position-by-position defensive rankings, posted just today. felipe lopez ranks dead last among nl shortstops

...below only - Your starting shortstop...Royce Clayton!

by sidnancy on Jul 13, 2006 6:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Clayton will not be the starting SS
He was a throw away in the trade and will be used for pinch hitting or a throw away in another trade. Short is going to be Aurilla/Freel/Castro.

by Clove @ Red Reporter on Jul 13, 2006 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

amen
This is my corn. You people are guests in my corn.

by Daedalus on Jul 13, 2006 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not so sure...
Kriv/Narron categorically denied BP at SS anytime soon. Which leaves Freel (ok) or Castro/Clayton (Yuk.)

by Splat on Jul 13, 2006 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

When pitiching is at a premium
you've got to give up alot to get it.

by joshetc on Jul 13, 2006 6:47 PM EDT reply actions  

someone else
should post this.  I haven't seen it yet.  Keith Law must be God or something, the way everyone keeps posting what he thinks.

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 7:05 PM EDT reply actions  

They kinda break even
But Clayton has better range.  

by mattg on Jul 13, 2006 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well said
People are jumping all over Krivsky but remember how critical everyone was when he acquired Brandon Phillips?  I think it's and it will be shown as it has in the past with Krivsky.

by harangatang on Jul 13, 2006 7:59 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't know
I liked the Phillips acquisition. I don't remember a lot of complaining about that one, but maybe we weren't looking in the same places.
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. --Oscar Wilde

by JD Arney on Jul 13, 2006 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Phillips
You're right, people didn't really complain.... it was more a question of why they needed more infielders, especially at 2b.

by mattg on Jul 13, 2006 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Phillips
Loved the Phillips deal from the start.  AS for this deal, well, you can remove the "Krivsky wins GM of the Year" from the "Looking at the Bright Side" diary.

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Spin it all you want
This is a terrible trade.  Just because you're trading from a surplus into an area of need doesn't make it worth it.  If the Cardinals need bullpen help, they don't look to deal Albert Pujols for Scott Schoeneweis.  Not saying that Kearns or Lopez are Albert Pujols, but the point is this; the value just doesn't add up.

I'll start off by saying that I like Bray and Majewski.  I live in Washington and go to Nats games fairly often, so I've seen both of these guys pitch several times.  Neither of them will wow you, but they're both bulldogs.  They know how to pitch, and just get people out, even if the K/BB ratio doesn't look the greatest.  Even better they're both young, cheap, and far from free agency.

However, this deal makes no sense for one simple reason.  The Nationals got the 2 best players in the deal currently, and the 2 players with the highest upside for the future.  Period.

by BLee2525 on Jul 13, 2006 8:07 PM EDT reply actions  

"Bashing Krivsky"
Well, ust got home from work and my wife tells me they traded Kearns, Wagner, and Lopez.  I'm thinking, they got Patterson right?  Cordero?  Please NOT Livan!  

Instead it's freaking Majewski who's got about as much potential as my grandmother.  Clayton, who's prime was about 8 years ago . . and it wasn't even that good then.  Daryl Thompson who is apparently the opposite of everything we thought Krivsky liked in a pitcher.  And Brendan Harris who is just plain mediocre.  What is supposed to be the key to this deal?

How does Krivsky manage to spin some of our highest trade commodities into 4 bags of crap?

Sometimes people can play the ol' "don't bash Krivsky until you see the results" card.  This is not one of those times.  This is an absolute abominable trade.  

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 8:51 PM EDT reply actions  

excuse me
I didn't see "Bill Bray" on the list.  Make that 5 bags of crap.

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

you mean . . .
sort of like being critical of your government, right neil young?  

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

whoa
took that a little more personal than it was meant.  Just was pointing out some irony and perspective, that's all.

by Brian B on Jul 14, 2006 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

mirror
What do I do if my reflection starts yelling back at me and calls me mean names?

by Brian B on Jul 14, 2006 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

mirror
Then you just look right back into that mirror and say, "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me."

by Slyde on Jul 14, 2006 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

mirror
You mean like if I can't "dribble the ball fast"?

by Brian B on Jul 14, 2006 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

mirror
fast dribbling sounds like a personal problem and probably shouldn't be discussed here.
"Your shower shoes have fungus on them. You'll never make it to the bigs with fungus on your shower shoes." - Crash Davis

by Caleb on Jul 15, 2006 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Potential?
Lopez doesn't have any potential. Last year he played way over his head and benefitted from playing in GABP--check his home/away splits and you'll see what I mean. This year he came back down to his true ability level. Kearns isn't all of a sudden going to turn into a all-star caliber player, especially in Washington. He's a solid player, but nothing more.

by teb7 on Jul 13, 2006 8:57 PM EDT reply actions  

solid player?
Name me ONE solid player we got in return.  

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd venture to call Majewski and Bray solid
Compared to what we have in the pen, they're solid gold. This trade made us better in the bullpen, better defensively, and it's a wash offensively unless Narron screws us over by playing Castro/Clayton too much. That said, I think it's fine to sacrifice some offense to improve those two areas and to give us more salary flexibility as well.

by teb7 on Jul 13, 2006 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

pen
Compared to what we had in the pen, you and I would have improved the bullpen.  That doesn't mean they should trade two of their best commodities for us.

And those guys aren't solid.

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

We'll see
Bray automatically becomes our 2nd best pitcher according to WXRL at Baseball Prospectus. Last year, Majewski was one of the best relievers in the NL according to WXRL. He's been worse this year, but given his age, that means he's more likely to rebound.

Frankly, I'm sick and tired of watching this team blow leads in the late innings. I'm happy with anything that would represent an improvement. I'm not jumping for joy, but I'm not shedding any tears. We won't have any trouble scoring runs and the defense improves by leaps and bounds without Lopez at SS.

I think we just learned what a tough trade market it is this year, as well as what major league GMs think about Kearns--ie, not much.

by teb7 on Jul 13, 2006 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Disagree
Offense is a LOT more important to a team's success than defense.  And we really hurt our offense today.

by BuckeyeRed on Jul 13, 2006 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Two quality pen guys.
Remember... the Red's bullpen sucks.  A week ago everyone was complaining about the pen now it's looking pretty solid.  What did you want to see... Kearns for Soriano?

by mattg on Jul 13, 2006 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kearns for Soriano
I was being serious.  Don't go putting words in other peoples' mouths to make it easier for you.

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm just trying...
to make the point that Kearns & Lopez aren't/weren't as valuable as many think.  Unless you think Krivsky is stupid and is trying to lose games (and his job) on purpose.

by mattg on Jul 13, 2006 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kearns and Lopez
maybe not as vauable as "many think" . . .  but clearly as valuable as everyone with half a brain thinks.  Sorry, but I refuse to believe that even you think they are so worthless to warrant guys like Clayton, Majewski, and the others.  

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree...
...they had value, but that value is apparently what two solid relievers, an aging SS, a AAA infielder and a A-ball prospect will buy you in MLB economics.  It's supply and demand.  

Again, I say that assuming that Krivsky and his scouts aren't a complete morons - and I don't think either of us would say that.  He wouldn't be in the position he is in if he were.  

by mattg on Jul 13, 2006 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not saying they're worthless
I'm saying that we can easily replace them on offense and improve the defense at the same time. As I said before, Narron can screw up this trade by playing Castro and Clayton a lot. And I'm also surprised that we couldn't get more for Kearns.

However, I suspect that most GMs have looked at the Phillips and Ross deals and are worried about getting burned. I think it's shortsighted to assume that Krivsky didn't try as hard as he could to get better players for Kearns and Lopez, which is what everyone here is implying.

Bottom line is, we weren't going to make the playoffs with Kearns, Lopez, and that bullpen. We can replace those two players and improve the bullpen. It's easy to see why he made the deal.

Would people be this upset if it had been Denorfia instead of Kearns? I think not. Yet, I believe they are about equal in value.

by teb7 on Jul 13, 2006 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Missed Our Point
Dude, I'm not saying he didn't try hard.  I'm saying he made a bad decision.

by BuckeyeRed on Jul 13, 2006 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree
Do you honestly think this team would've made the playoffs with the current pen? With the weakness of the National League this year, it's the right time to make a risky trade. A playoff spot is worth more to this team than the rest of Kearns' arb years, especially with Denorfia ready to step in and Bruce further down in the organization.

However, if Majewski and Bray suck, I will be the first guy to say I was wrong. But if they end up helping the pen, I think it could be the move that nets us the wild card and all that extra TV money.

by teb7 on Jul 13, 2006 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Best Case Scenario
Is that every media outlet in the English speaking world laughs at how bad the deal is for the Reds, and Krivsky is drawn and quartered for it.  Otherwise, he gets away with single-handedly dismantling any chance the Reds had at winning in the forseeable future.  

How did Bud Selig let this deal go through so fast?

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 9:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Ugh
I was going to wear my Reds hat to the Cubs-Mets game on Saturday.  But now I think I'll save myself the embarrassment.

If you haven't read the comments to the diary on Sickels' page, here it is:

http://www.minorleagueball.com/story/2006/7/13/155437/683

It's a mix of people laughing at Krivsky and people feeling sorry for Reds fans.  

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 9:18 PM EDT reply actions  

I Heard Krivsky Interview today
He said on 1460 that "Clayton will be our starting SS".  Wow.  Obviously this answers the question whether this is a salary dump or there is another move in the making, because we will have the worst starting SS in MLB.  It is impossible to win a pennant with Royce Clayton as your starting SS.  For those of you that think he is a good defensive player - from 2006 Baseball Prospectus - "...most defensive metrics show him as squarely middle-of-the-road, if not bottom-of-the-barrel.."  And his offense is pitiful.  So if anyone actually thinks he is better than Lopez (who is also 10 years younger), you're an idiot.

I am not upset we traded Kearns and Lopez.  I am concerned with what we got in return.  Middle relievers are the easist players to obtain.  Look what we gave up to get Guardado.

We are heading in the wrong direction Reds fans.

 

by BuckeyeRed on Jul 13, 2006 9:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Ugh
You've gotta be kidding me. I will pull a 180 on this if Clayton plays more than 2 days a week. What is their deal with not moving over Phillips?

by teb7 on Jul 13, 2006 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

ditto
And the NAtionals are in LAST PLACE!  Aren't they the ones who should be dumping their major league pieces for young cheap prospects?

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

This trade
My initial impression is I really don't like this trade. I do not understand the Clayton part of the deal. He'll only be here for the rest of the year, and that is not 100%. If Majewski was the centerpiece I have to think you could have gotten him for Lopez. I would have thought that they could have gotten at least one more solid ML player with AK thrown in. Royce Clayton?  I would switch Phillips to short and play Freel at 2nd. I would also contine to rotate EdE and the Bad Man and also Bad Man and Hberg.

Time will tell and I hope this works out. I really hope it works out. This could easily turn into Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas or Tony Perez for Woody Fryman.

"Your shower shoes have fungus on them. You'll never make it to the bigs with fungus on your shower shoes." - Crash Davis

by Caleb on Jul 13, 2006 9:57 PM EDT reply actions  

trade
This could easily turn into Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas

Perhaps easier than Robinson-Pappas turned into Robinson-Pappas.

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't like moving Phillips
He's great defensively at second. I fear he'd probably just be average at short. I don't get why we'd start Clayton or Castro every day when we have Aurilia. It's obvious that Krivsky and Narron don't view range as part of being good defensively, and Aurilia's pretty surehanded defensively and doesn't throw the ball away. And, unlike Clayton and Castro, he isn't an offensive black hole. That lets Phillips stay at second.

That said, I hate Deno in the leadoff spot. It just doesn't work for me. He's not much of a basestealing threat (he strikes me as a good baserunner, but not particularly fast), and I'm not hopeful that he'll hit .300 this year. I think .280/.345/.420 is probably a realistic projection for this year, with a few sprinkled in steals and homers. He ought to be hitting 2nd or 7th.

by Geki on Jul 13, 2006 10:05 PM EDT reply actions  

A relief
It is such a relief to be back among the sane.  I heard about the deal in the car, and was stuck with the reactions of Gary Burbank, Paul Daughterty, and mostly dumba** callers.  Then, when the game started, the Enquirer writer and Steve Stewart were talking up the "just do something!" management style of Krivsky.

Dumbest line:  "look, this is the price you have to pay for pitching."

So, its nice to be back among the thinking fans.

We gave up one legit top flight player in Kearns.
We gave up a guy in Lopez who is only average this year, but has the potential to be very good.

You got one relief pitcher who appears to be a little above average.

You got another relief pitching who is too young to tell (But WLW says Wayne says "lots of teams wanted him" so you can take that to the bank).

And you got a very average SS.  And a couple minor leaguers who will likely never be anything.

I think our offense is now growing old and thin and I think the bullpen was helped only a little.

Finally, they kept adding these guys to the Guardado acqusition.  Where was it decided he was going to be our answer at closer.

We needed help this year.  But I think we have given away too much of next year.

by orangeandbrown on Jul 13, 2006 10:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Kearns
All of the rumors I have heard involving Kearns always had him being traded for some average starter like Jake Westbrook or Jason Marquis.  Instead we got two relievers.  One of these relievers is already a solid setup man who could get even better, and the other is a LHP 2004 1st round draft pick (13th overall) with the potential to become a closer.  I'd say we got pretty fair value.

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 10:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Kearns...
is not a top flight player!!!

by DisplacedFan on Jul 13, 2006 10:19 PM EDT reply actions  

top flight
I haven't heard anyone say this, so I don't know what you're reacting to.  He's just plainly better than what he fetched in return.  Period.

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

orangeandbrown
He mentioned it in his above post.

by teb7 on Jul 13, 2006 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I did say that...
perhaps that was an overstatement.  Did I see somewhere that he is the #5 RF?  That's certainly a good player.

by orangeandbrown on Jul 13, 2006 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Delusional
These comments are showing how home town fans are incapable of evaluating their own team.

While Kearns is not a hall of famer when you combine offense and defense he is your best player.  Even if you call Lopez for Clayton even, which is crazy in its own right, you just traded your best player for two middle relievers.  These aren't even top flight middle relievers either.  Just two above average guys at the easiest position to fill in the majors

This is the worst trade not involving prospects in my lifetime.  It is a complete unmitigated disaster that makes them much worse in both the short and long term.  

The fact that some think that what you got is as good as Jake Westbrook shows that if you like this deal it's because you don't know what you're talking about.

Simply horrible.

by Gaelan on Jul 13, 2006 10:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Westbrook
you'd be happier with Westbrook?  He has a 4.37 career ERA, is older than both Majewski and Bray, and could cost almost $6 million next year.  He's about as mediocre as it gets.

if anyone here doesn't know what they're talking about, its you.

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes, I'd take Westbrook for Kearns
because we'd still at least have Lopez and it's just one guy who will play once every 5 games and not screw up the batting order for the rest of the team.  

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

so
you wouldn't really trade Kearns for Westbrook?  You'd just rather do that than the real trade?

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm
yeah, that's probably accurate.  I'd be 50/50 on Kearns for Westbrook would play the wait-and-see game.

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

this is what I'm trying to get at
I think we (fans) placed a higher value on Kearns than baseball organizations did.

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

huh?
How do we go from Kearns-Westbrook to saying that Reds fans placed a higher value on Kearns than other organizations?  Are you saying that other organizations woudn't give up Westbrook for Kearns?

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah
sorry, I didn't explain that at all...

The most I can remember being offered for Kearns was Westbrook or Jason Marquis.  You said you didn't know if you'd do that deal.  I assume you wouldn't do that deal because you don't think it would be fair value.  So, if that assumption is true, then you value Kearns more than the people who were making offers.

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

if you think
Krivsky had an opportunity to do better and didn't, you need to get a grip.

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

yup
it's harsh, but all very true.  Seriously, if you think that this can pan out, get a grip.  Nothing against anyone personally, but this is a disaster.  

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

if you think
Krivsky had an opportunity to do better and didn't, you need to get a grip.

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Westbrook
Westbrook is an average major league starting pitcher.  He also happens to be an extreme groundball pitcher which gives him extra value to the Reds.  Average major league starting pitchers are very valuable.  I'm not sure I'd trade Kearns for him but if you did I wouldn't laugh at you.

Middle relievers, on the other hand, have very limited value.  Good teams find them for free every year.  They certainly don't trade their best player for them.

Here's a little thought experiment for you.  If the Cardinals offered the Reds Adam Wainwright and Josh Hancock for Kearns would you make the trade?  The answer is no because that trade would improve the Cardinals substantially and make it very difficult to catcth them and thus explode the myth that this trade was done for the pennant drive.  This, despite the fact that Wainwright and Hancock are better than Majewski and Bray.

by Gaelan on Jul 13, 2006 11:06 PM EDT reply actions  

that trade
I'd be reluctant to do that because Wainwright never did anything in the upper levels of the minor leagues that tells me he'll be able to sustain his current success.  Also, Hancock has a career ERA over 4.00.

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

outfield
This deal also means that Dunn is all but gone after his contract.  He like to have fun.  But Kearns is gone, Griffey will be gone after '08, so why should Dunn think long term with the Reds now?  

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 11:28 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't want to have a subject
It's not like you acquired Steve Shields or someone good.  You got young, unproven, small sample size relievers and I offered you better, young, unproven, small sample size relievers, one of whom could be a starter.  

So I have a question.  If middle relief is so valuable then why don't the Nationals (who presumably have good middle relief) have a better record.

What really makes the deal crazy is that by virtue of a single trade the Nationals, one of the worst teams in baseball, and the Reds, nominal playoff contenders, are now of similar quality.  The Nationals have the better offense but their starting pitching is probably worse than the Reds.  Their bullpens are similar.  The Nationals have the better closer but the Reds have middle relief to their credit (hoorah).  In a single trade your GM turned you into one of the worst teams in baseball.    

by Gaelan on Jul 13, 2006 11:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Look at Denorfia's OBP
Denorfia is just as valuable offensively as Kearns. He trades SLG for OBP. Given that our lineup has no shortage of SLG, I'll take the OBP anytime. Denorfia also has superior range in RF, and frankly, should be playing CF.

Lopez, on the other hand, is the worst defensive SS in baseball and slugs under .400. I'm not sad to see him go.

To counter your question--if Kearns and Lopez are so damn good, then why were the Reds only 1 game over .500 with them?

This trade says more about the current market than it does about Krivsky.

by teb7 on Jul 13, 2006 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Excuses for a bad trade
Current market?  This is the same market that produced Kearns and Lopez for the Nationals!

Denorfia is easily as good as Kearns for different reasons.  But we already had him!  t's not like they traded Kearns for Denorfia.

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

wait a sec
the same market put a value on Kearns and Lopez!

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly!
So that's not a valid way of excusing the trade!  

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

why not?
I think we got the value for kearns that the market had set.

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

The why trade him?
If it's not a good time to get any value?

by Brian B on Jul 14, 2006 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

playoffs
Because Krivsky believes that a marginal improvement in the bullpen will get this team to the playoffs. I find it hard to believe that Bray and Majewski won't marginally improve the bullpen.

by teb7 on Jul 14, 2006 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

yes
but again, just about any addition would "improve" this bullpen.  Why blow two key trading chips on this deal?

by Brian B on Jul 14, 2006 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

you're right
I guess I'm just hoping that Krivsky knows something that we don't. I'm guessing there's something else up his sleeve before the deadline.

by teb7 on Jul 14, 2006 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

market
I think the market was pretty much stable.  It was as good a time as any.

by Blue on Jul 14, 2006 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Meh
When evaluating a trade, you ALWAYS have to look at how the club replaces what it traded away. Like the Randa deal last year. It netted two pitchers, but more importantly it freed up a spot for EdE.

Anyway....I completely understand why everyone is upset, to an extent. But to immediately call this the 2nd worst trade in Reds history is overreacting just a tad. Let's wait and see what happens, mmkay?

by teb7 on Jul 13, 2006 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Denorfia is not as good as Kearns
This is ridiculous.  No one who isn't a Reds fanboy believes this.  No one.

by Gaelan on Jul 14, 2006 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

okay
I guess if you say so.

by Blue on Jul 14, 2006 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Kearns vs. Denorfia
Remember last season when Kearns was sent down to the minors.  This is the line he put up there
342/407/685.  Denorfia's line this season is remarkably similar except without all the power.  It's also not like Denorfia is young.  He's a 25 year old marginal prospect destined to life as a fourth outfielder on a good team or a starting job on a hopeless team like the Reds.  He isn't within ten miles of Kearns as a baseball player.  Not only is Kearns a better hitter but Kearns is one of the top defensive right fielders of the game, is an above average baserunner and has an above average arm.  There isn't a single thing that Denorfia does better than Kearns.  

It's usually a good idea to deal from a position of strength but when you do you should deal from the bottom of the deck not the top.  I get the impression that most of you are glad you traded Kearns instead of Denorfia.  That's plain wrong.

by Gaelan on Jul 14, 2006 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

just so you know
I really like Kearns (and I feel sorry for him because he'll be away from the Lexington area and he'll either see his baby less often or have to uproot his young family to the D.C. area).

I don't think Denorfia is better.  I just hope Deno can put up a good OBP and OPS a little over .800, which I think he's capable of.

However, while he certainly doesn't have Kearns' power, he does have better speed.  That's all I really know.  However, from things I've read about him, I think he'll be a better baserunner and I think he'll be a better outfielder than Kearns and has more aptitude for CF than Kearns.  (Yes, Deno has a good arm.)  This isn't to say Kearns wasn't good in these areas, I just think Deno will be better.

by Blue on Jul 14, 2006 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Denorfia
I mostly agree with you here, but this really isn't the source of the frustration, is it?  They're just different players.  Not that this is rare for Reds' outfielders, but Kearns seemed a little slow getting to balls in the outfield.  Denorfia will throw himself around more and flash some speed.  Denorfia's arm is above average, but it's no canon like what Kearns wears.  At the plate, Denorfia won't K as much, but he won't be the power threat either.  I'm fine with the tradeoff overall since the Reds were a little power-heavy and consistency-thin.  Fine.

What I'm not fine with is that WE ALREADY HAD BOTH OF THESE GUYS!  The pisser of it all is that we got bullpen improvement that could have been picked up anywhere.  AND we lost both of our trading chips in one fatal swing.  So very very sad.  

by Brian B on Jul 14, 2006 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

wait and see
how many relievers better than these guys are picked up at the deadline for less.

by Blue on Jul 14, 2006 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

How do you know?
You're judging this trade before any evidence is in. That's foolish. It looks better for the Nats right now, but I wouldn't be surprised if Denorfia and his OBP skills and D make him just as valuable as Kearns by season's end.

THat's one fanboy's take. Hooray fanboys!

by teb7 on Jul 14, 2006 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

evidence
I'm sure Deorfia will impress.  I'm a huge fan of his.  But we didn't trade Kearns and Lopez for Denorfia.  

by Brian B on Jul 14, 2006 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

oops
ok, my subject had nothing to do with what I eventually wrote.  

by Brian B on Jul 14, 2006 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

well in a way
they did.
"Your shower shoes have fungus on them. You'll never make it to the bigs with fungus on your shower shoes." - Crash Davis

by Caleb on Jul 14, 2006 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kearns is the best player the Reds have
It's true that if Kearns is your best player you probably don't have a great team but that doesn't mean that Kearns isn't your best player and that trading him for middle relievers is a good idea.  It means that you should go out and get some better players.

The Reds are only one game over .500 because they have a mediocre starting rotation, a bad bullpen and the worst defensive centerfielder in the majors.  

They "solved" the least important of these problems by trading their best player which only gives them new and bigger problems to solve.

by Gaelan on Jul 14, 2006 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Jeez, overreact much?
The people calling this a disaster are telling other people to get a grip? Puh-leeze. Let's wait until the year is over before calling it a disaster.

It doesn't look good right now what with the spectre of Clayton looming over our heads, but all of this Chicken Little BS is making us sound like friggin Cubs fans.

Where did this Kearns fetish come from anyway?

by teb7 on Jul 13, 2006 11:42 PM EDT reply actions  

we've seen this before
McCracken will be a starting outfielder
Hatteberg stinks
Aurilia will be our starting 3B
why do we need Dave Ross

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

the year is over
the trade was a disaster.

I don't know how many times I've said that I wanted to trade Kearns.  So you can't call this a fetish.  We got marginal crap in return though.  Cubs fans are laughing at us right now along with the rest of the planet.

by Brian B on Jul 13, 2006 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

clayton is crap
majewski, bray, and maybe harris aren't.

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Infield
I think the trade has a chance to be the second worst in Reds history.  Nothing could be worse than Robinson for Pappas.  But anyway, it's done.  In my view, we got much less than reasonable value for Austin Kearns.  I like Denorfia, have been watching him since he was in Single A.  He'll be a productive player but he's  not a replacement for Austin Kearns.  Apparently we're now also committed to a late thirties age Griffey in the outfield for the next several years.  Is that a part of improving the defense?
How do we see this year's and next's infield? That's what's unclear to me as we have all these redundant players, and I also don't see what this deal means for Ryan Freel.  Is the real outfield replacement for Kearns going to be Edwin?  Do we see Hatteberg, Freel, Phillips, Aurilia in the infield, with Dunn, Griffey, and EE in the outfield?  

by HokieRed on Jul 13, 2006 11:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Griffey
yeah, I think we'll have him in our outfield until his contract is up.  hopefully in a corner by next year

by Blue on Jul 13, 2006 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Robinson is before my time
But this might be the worst trade by any team not involving prospects in my lifetime.  

by Gaelan on Jul 14, 2006 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah
This trade did involve prospects. Thompson, Harris, and Wagner are all minor leaguers.
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. --Oscar Wilde

by JD Arney on Jul 14, 2006 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Red Menace
I wonder if Red Menace got the news of the trade over in Spain.  Poor guy.

by Brian B on Jul 14, 2006 12:17 AM EDT reply actions  

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