Reds Claim Bobby Livingston Off Of Waivers

by JD Arney on Dec 14, 2006 6:39 PM EST in News

Bobby Livingston

From Marc:

The Reds have claimed left-hander Bobby Livingston off waivers from the Seattle Mariners. No big deal there, except the Devil Rays claimed Livingston off waivers from the Mariners earlier this week and flipped him to the Phillies for cash.
How did this happen? Well, MLB nullified the previous waiver claim and trade, with no reason given. Apparently the powers that be felt the Phillies were circumventing the waiver process, which is prioritized by record, by cutting a prearraged deal with the Rays and sending Tampa cash for its part.
Cloak and dagger stuff right there.
By the way, Livingston has been added to the 40-man roster.

Livingston is a 23 year old left handed starter who was drafted in the fourth round of the 2001 draft by Seattle. Guy had fairly solid numbers until he made it to AAA, and his K/9 ratio fell to an alarming 4.59 in 135.1 innings at AAA Tacoma this past season. Baseball Prospectus 2006 had this to say about him:

Who to believe, the stats or the scouts? The stats say Livingston has put up great K/BB ratios throughout his minor league career, and looks on track to hit the majors soon. The scouts say he's a soft tossing lefty who may struggle at the highest level. The numbers hint at that possibility too, as Livingston's peripheral's eroded a bit at Tacoma, culminating in a playoff game debacle in which he yielded five homers. Lefty control pitchers are said to have a better chance at success than righties of the same stripe, and the Mariners have one of the archetypes in Jamie Moyer. There are enough candidates for the back of the rotation that they can take a patient approach with Livingston.

It looks to me based on his 2006 that the scouts were right this go round. I just can't see the need for giving this guy a 40 man spot.

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Comments

Could be a steal

According to his stats, this guy was lights out until last season. A change in scenery could be exactly what he needs.

With Claussen off they could use a second starting pitcher among the players that aren't on the 25-man. What it tells me though is that they don't have confidence in their AAA starters. I'm no Reds minor league expert, so I'm not sure about this move.

by KAredsfan on Dec 14, 2006 8:05 PM EST reply actions

i agree about potential for a steal

but i won't give krivsky credit -it'd just be luck.

winter is boooooooring

by Daedalus on Dec 14, 2006 8:43 PM EST up reply actions

It's Christmas

Give the guy some credit.

Did I say that?

by dmcgee on Dec 14, 2006 8:54 PM EST reply actions

Sounds like an unproven (but healthy) Claussen

I'll reserve judgment. Let's just hope he's more Claussen than, say, Chris Michalak.

by Geki on Dec 14, 2006 9:00 PM EST reply actions

he's more deserving of a spot on the 40-man...

than a few other guys (think "tools of ignorance").

"if you love the reds so much, why don't you marry them?"

by BobbyO on Dec 14, 2006 9:34 PM EST reply actions

Hey

If anyone can make Livingston a MLer it's Moeller, that's the word from a blind, alcoholic bum that I tripped over on my way past GABP the other day.

Let's bring back 1983 and call it Gary Redux!

by Pops Daniels on Dec 15, 2006 9:50 AM EST up reply actions

Mike Gosling

Looks like another Mike Gosling to me. Ben Kozlowski might be another reasonable comp. He was throwing 87-89 in 2005 with good command of a curveball with good downward break. Livingston's control will have to be absolutely perfect for him to survive at 84-88. I'd rather have used the roster spot in another way.

by HokieRed on Dec 14, 2006 11:03 PM EST reply actions

Hmm...

An improvement over Chris "81 mph" Michakalaka.

Don't mind me...just thinking positive and pitching to contact, that's all...

by Paul Householder on Dec 14, 2006 11:05 PM EST up reply actions

Best move of the offseason?

"Looks like another Mike Gosling to me. Ben Kozlowski might be another reasonable comp."

He's a year younger than those guys and Koslowski never was as successfull in AA as Livingston has already been.

Compare and contrast with Phil Dumatrait. Livingston's 05 in AA was better than Dumaatrait has ever been in AA and Livingston is two years younger. He's a better prospect than Chick or Germano.

"I just can't see the need for giving this guy a 40 man spot."

On the contrary if it means having him in your organization or not and you are pitching thin, this is exactly a great use of a 40 man roster spot.

I'm not ready to slot him into the big clubs starting rotation, but I'm ready to punch his ticket to Louisville to start behind Homer. With Claussen gone and Milton's contract ready to expire, Livingston could be the lefty starter for 08 if he stays on track.

Frankly I think it's the best move Krivsky has made all off season.

by dfs on Dec 15, 2006 9:49 AM EST reply actions

I'll second that notion

LHP prospects are hard to categorize. Sure things don't pan out, overlooked non-prospects wind up having productive mlb careers.

This move is better than Bubba or Moeller, even if it doesnt pan out.

Courtney for President, 2008

by ohiobobcat on Dec 15, 2006 10:22 AM EST up reply actions

Koz

I'm not buying Livingston's a better prospect than Kozlowski at all. He has one thing going for him, his age. Over his whole minor league career, Koz's K's per 9 is 7.24, Livingston's is 6.14. In his last 60 innings at AA Jacksonville last year, most of it as a starter, Kozlowski averaged 8.85 K/9. Livingston's certainly worth taking a look at at Louisville and I wish him all the best, but a 6.14 K rate in the minors does not bode well for major league success.

by HokieRed on Dec 15, 2006 11:29 AM EST up reply actions

made me look ;)

I didn't word my comment as exactly as I could of, but I'll respond as best I can.

I think we're largely in agreement about Livingston. Because of his age Livingston is still in the category of prospect and has a chance at a real role on a major league staff. That's a decent use of a slot in Louisville and some time with the coaching staff. You don't get to pick up Homer Baily type prospects off waivers.

As to Ben Kozlowski, when the reds got him he was a year older than Livingston and two years removed from any real success. Comparing the two at that point, I think you would take Livingston.

As to Kozlowsi now, 26 year olds should be able to do well at AA. That doesn't make them any kind of prospect. Certainly anybody called up to pitch in Dodger stadium stands a decent chance of putting up some nice numbers, but Kozlowski isn't on the dodgers 40 man, so he needs to call to come soon or he's on the Michalak career path.

Indeed Kozlowski's K rate after moving over to the Dodgers this last year is his one good number in the last four years. That has to be either a fluke or coaching and indicates that he wasn't going anywhere as a red.

by dfs on Dec 18, 2006 11:00 AM EST up reply actions

Based on this picture

His motion seems a bit odd. Can anyone speak to this? If it's really wacky, it may help him to succeed at BP speed.

Let's bring back 1983 and call it Gary Redux!

by Pops Daniels on Dec 15, 2006 9:53 AM EST reply actions

Comp

His delivery looks Randy Johnson-esque to me. Maybe its the uni, the angle, the lighting.

"Man he sure throw that speedball by ya, make you look like a fool, boy"

Courtney for President, 2008

by ohiobobcat on Dec 15, 2006 1:39 PM EST up reply actions

Waiver Priorty Question

The waiver priorty is based on team's record from last year... so is the Cardinals slotted priorty with the rest of the near-.500 teams, or are they placed on the bottom of the priorty?

I know Albert Pujols thinks the waiver priorty should be based on the playoffs and not records, just like the MVP voting, but I was curious if anyone knew how that worked.

Either way, I'm really glad he gagged down the strecth so we could claim Bobby Livingston before Philly could.

by indy on Dec 15, 2006 1:18 PM EST reply actions

For a brief period

Bobby Livingston was the most sought after player in baseball. Teams were cheating to get him.

by Red Menace on Dec 15, 2006 2:11 PM EST reply actions

Cloak/dagger

This isn't apparent from Lancaster's blog, but the St. Pete paper says that the Reds petitioned MLB to get the Devil Rays' move rescinded. A good, aggressive move by Krivsky if that's right.

by ken on Dec 15, 2006 2:29 PM EST reply actions

Krivsky

Maybe the Reds can petition the D-Rays to have the Marc Lancaster deal rescinded and force him to continue covering the Reds.

by Brian B on Dec 15, 2006 4:54 PM EST up reply actions

Another MARC

Isn't it odd that the article was written by another MARC with a C?

by snohio on Dec 17, 2006 11:51 AM EST up reply actions

I'm puzzled.

Didn't we just skirt draft rules with the Hamilton deal ourselves?

Krivsky always said life was like a box of players....

by sukr on Dec 16, 2006 11:28 AM EST reply actions

i thought the same thing

The only difference I see is one involved a waiver claim and one involved a draft selection.

But draft picks can't be traded, so perhaps the Hamilton deal is against the spirit of the rules also.....

Courtney for President, 2008

by ohiobobcat on Dec 17, 2006 3:40 PM EST up reply actions

catchers

Looks like the Tigers have signed Dane Sardinha to a minor league deal.

by Brian B on Dec 18, 2006 2:59 PM EST reply actions

Harang comparable?

Bonderman just signed up for 4 years, $38 million.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AhmDUcJRh6CXowgBna1_Az45nYcB?slug=ap-tigers-bonderman&prov =ap&type=lgns

Looks like OBC is in the ballpark at 4/$40 million for Harang...

Don't mind me...just thinking positive and pitching to contact, that's all...

by Paul Householder on Dec 18, 2006 7:01 PM EST reply actions

I don't know about OBC

I've been calling for it, though.

Unfortunately, I don't think that'll be enough any more. Read the diary for why.

by sidnancy on Dec 18, 2006 8:28 PM EST up reply actions

gotta agree

Its 4/50 now, 4/60 if he remotely replicates '06 this season before an extension.

The Reds got the bucks, Git 'er Done!

Gil Meche sucks anal vapors.

Courtney for President, 2008

by ohiobobcat on Dec 18, 2006 10:07 PM EST up reply actions

oops

I started a new diary about this very thing. Didn't see this here first.

by greg456 on Dec 18, 2006 7:41 PM EST reply actions

oops again

This was supposed to be a reply to Householder above.

This is not my day.

by greg456 on Dec 18, 2006 7:42 PM EST up reply actions

Thanks for starting the diary.

I was too lazy to do one.

Don't mind me...just thinking positive and pitching to contact, that's all...

by Paul Householder on Dec 19, 2006 10:25 AM EST up reply actions

by ohiobobcat on Dec 20, 2006 8:34 AM EST reply actions

PCL

His numbers fell when entring the PCL, isnt that kind of typical? I mean, isnt that a notoriously offensive biased league (based on ballparks I assume)?

by TheDude @ Red Reporter on Dec 20, 2006 4:14 PM EST reply actions