Open Thread: Ken Griffey Jr.

by JD Arney on Oct 30, 2006 11:53 AM EST in News

Ken Griffey Jr.

The very definition of a sacred cow, discussions centering around Ken Griffey Jr. have kind of been off limits for the past few years. It's been tough to point out weaknesses in his game, for fear of being lumped in with the nutjobs that call in to local sports talk radio in Cincinnati. WHIFFEY IS NOT YOUR SAVIOR! That kind of stuff.

But his game does have holes, and they became ever more apparent this past season. His hitting numbers fell across the board. His slugging percentage fell from .576 in 2005 to .486. His batting average dropped from .301 to .252, and his on base percentage suffered a similar drop from .369 to .316.

Griffey is 36 years old, and he'll be 37 for the 2007 season. With all the injuries he's had you really have to start wondering how much gas he's got left in the tank. I think his numbers in 2006 were good enough that he's probably got a few more years left, should he wish to play that long, but the biggest concern is without a doubt his defensive position.

It kind of boggles the mind that Ken Griffey Jr. is still playing center field at this late date in his career. He's had numerous leg injuries, some quite severe, and he's also put on some weight in the past few years. There's really no excuse for a franchise continuing to play him in center field, one of the most important defensive positions in baseball. It seems fairly obvious that the team would be better off with Griffey playing elsewhere, but the Reds have set themselves up in a way that makes it difficult. He can't play left field because Dunn is there, and I'm not sure he's a great candidate for right because his arm isn't the greatest. Apparently first base is out of the question because Junior has said that the sudden starts and stops at first aggravate his old injuries.

So here are some questions to get the Junior discussion rolling:

Where should Junior play?
Should the Reds try to trade him? As his contract comes closer and closer to it's end, this possibility probably becomes more and more likely. What kind of return would you want, if you do think the Reds should trade him?
How do you feel about Junior's 2006 season?

For further reference: Ken Griffey Jr. career statistics

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half-empty or half-full?

i'm going with half-full.

He'll play center for the Reds because no one wants to challenge The Kid's clubhouse autonomy, or take the chance of possibly pissing him off. I was 100% pro-acquiring Junior, and I'll stand behind the original assessment. Plus, he's not going anywhere. I'm going to cross the ol' fingers and hope for a Frank Thomas-type restoration.

I'm all about '08, baby.

by fletch @ Red Reporter on Oct 30, 2006 12:27 PM EST reply actions

move out of center

or be traded to Tampa Bay, I don't care who you are, right now all you are is a slow center fielder who bats 252. I am wondering if the teams record was better with him in the line-up. I think he can still be very good for the club, but not if he demands to stay in CF.

GO REDS!

by ewquinn on Oct 30, 2006 12:41 PM EST reply actions

Griffey as a starter

The Reds were 48-54 in games that Griffey started, 1-5 in games that he played but didn't start, and 31-23 in all other games. Don't take this for anything more than minutia though as there are so many other factors involved than just one player. For instance, the top 3 winning percentages in starts is Q. McCracken (3-2, .600), J. Larue (32-24, .571), and C. Denorfia (14-11, .560).

by Slyde on Oct 30, 2006 1:56 PM EST up reply actions

Platoon Him ...

I say play him only against maarginal or bad pitchers, allowing him to pad his numbers for an eventual trade to an American League team needing a DH.

by Billingsfan on Oct 30, 2006 1:21 PM EST reply actions

It's Time

Junior should be a DH in the AL. Trade him for a good outfielder.

by TR on Oct 30, 2006 1:40 PM EST reply actions

JR is a tough call.

I'd probably agree that he should be in the AL. I thought a couple of years ago he'd go to Tampa when Lou was there. Now, I am not sure. He gets his pick pretty much so I doubt he will go to TB unless he doesn't care about a ring and just wants to be close to Orlando. There are so many DH candidates these days, most AL teams don't have a need. And you probably aren't going to pay that much for a DH (unless he can get back to hitting 50 - 60 HRs on a regular basis.)

I think if managment wants to get him out of CF, you have to bring in a Tori Hunter type where he would have no choice but to say that he would move. I can't say I'd be upset no matter the outcome of Jr. for '07.

by snohio on Oct 30, 2006 2:40 PM EST reply actions

Griff is a '92 Jaguar XJ220

Jaguar. Known during this era for producing expensive vehicles plagued with issues, these cars are rare, sought after, extremely over-valued by their owners, and a technical nightmare to maintain. Are there cars that are cheaper, faster and more reliable? You bet. But it's the prestige of owning a super-exotic, albeit owned by someone who lives in the "Fanny Mae housing" of the MLB payroll. And yes, we bought it after the best years were ragged out of it, and it broke down soon after aquiring it.

But since we signed a high-interest loan based on residual new car smell, we're in negative equity with this pony, and not likely to get out. Lest we chance upon a collector willing to pay more than we owe, I say keep the Jag. It may find it's final resting place on blocks in the driveway, but it's still a Jag, right?. Besides, we've still got a few good years of looking cool, driving it around the hood.

Sorry all, I honestly forgot about the car thing till JD said "gas in the tank", I blame him.

I'm a boobs guy.

by sukr on Oct 30, 2006 9:08 PM EST reply actions

that's the coolest

analogy re: jr i've ever heard. I think that should be the final word.

Fynal Cut... Get skewered

by boobs on Oct 30, 2006 10:23 PM EST up reply actions

The Jag Analogy

...and like that exotic '92 vehicle, you probably don't drive it down to Florida or even over to Philadelphia. You drive it locally for all to see and impress. So I say, put him at first base. He says the stops and starts wear on him, but the bottom line is, that's probably the most appropriate place for him in the NL. I think his trade-in value is down so I don't know who'll take him for a good return. Not sure how much negative equity would be in this deal. The other problem is there's a Saturn Ion playing at first base and it's name is Hatteberg. See? This is why I lease and don't buy...

I gotta take a wicked "yes"! - Peter Griffin

by NYRed on Oct 30, 2006 10:25 PM EST up reply actions

depreciating asset

Financial service analogies are the shizzle.

Now, if I'm a Hall of Famer for you, that's all right with me. Just keep loving old Buck. Don't weep for Buck. No, man, be happy, be thankful. *Buck O'Neill*

by ohiobobcat on Oct 31, 2006 9:27 AM EST up reply actions

Griffey

His bat in the 3rd spot really killed the team's offense last year. I don't quite understand how a guy's plate discipline can get so dramatically bad in one season, so hopefully this was just a fluke. Still, the best thing for the team would be to move him out of center and drop him to 6th in the order. There's no point in trading him now after his worst season. It'd be worth considering if he gets off to a hot start in 2007, though.

by teb7 on Oct 30, 2006 10:46 PM EST reply actions

The edge of the cliff is near

It's sad to say, but I don't think there's any good solution to the Griffey problem. Unless a good deal (trading him) or bad deal (trading Dunn) comes along, the Reds have no place to play him but CF, where he really hurts the team. If we could atleast drop him to 6th in the order that would help a little.

Even if he's moved to DH in the AL, I forsee a rapid decline in his ability to help a team.

Look at the numbers.. The drop in OBP and SLG don't just look bad, I think they're a result ofsomething I saw all year watching JR hit. He was swinging early at everything. I think he's lost the bat speed that he used to depend on to wait on pitches, so he goes up there hacking every PA. He's never had the kind of batting eye that Frank Thomas type have. He's always had quick wrists that allowed him to wait until the last minute to swing.
Now that that ability is gone (it is) his best chance to hit the ball becomes a guessing game.

Anybody remember the end of Mike Schmidt's career?
here's his BP card
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/schmimi01.shtml

In '87 he hit 35 hr .298/.388/.548
A year later he got hurt for the last time.
A year after that he was crying at his press conference.

Sure, Griffey could probably help a team for the next couple of years, as a DH or left fielder, but
he hasn't been a championship quality CF for years. Our best chance to unload him was before the slide into oblivion became obvious to even the Stupid GM's club (Chuck Lamar president).

Im afraid we're probably stuck with the flaming wreckage of JR's career. Let' hope he at least sees it coming soon and get's to retire with the dignity deserving a HoFamer

by blotzphoto on Oct 31, 2006 8:18 AM EST reply actions

Dorothy Mantooth, errr Mike Schmidt, is a saint!

Now, if I'm a Hall of Famer for you, that's all right with me. Just keep loving old Buck. Don't weep for Buck. No, man, be happy, be thankful. *Buck O'Neill*

by ohiobobcat on Oct 31, 2006 10:37 AM EST up reply actions

Right field is the place

Right field seems to be a decent fit. Junior's problem's aren't concentration related or just general clumsiness like Dunn's. He's just lost several steps. That won't hurt the reds in right and his arm won't be a problem.

I don't think he's tradable. He's 10/5 so you have to get his consent and there are only a couple of places that would be willing to take on that contract. He's got to prove he's healthy in order to justify the trade and..well, if he's playing healthy and in right field, there isn't any reason to trade him.

by dfs on Oct 31, 2006 10:07 AM EST reply actions

Would he go back to Seattle?

Surely he'd be an upgrade over Carl Everett.

And it would be a nice place to end his career, in the same place his dad did.

Just for novelty sake you could even get Seattle to give us Eduardo Perez so we still have a Big Red Machine Jr. on the roster.

by jambolyajones on Oct 31, 2006 11:49 AM EST reply actions

Would he go back to Seattle?

There is really no chance in hXll he'd go back to Seattle and frankly, there would be as big a crowd waiting at the airport in order to tell him to leave as there would be waiting there to welcome him back...

by JoJo on Nov 2, 2006 6:13 PM EST up reply actions

Junior Trade

I really don't see the Reds trading Junior to anyone.

I'd wish that Krivsky & Narron just start putting him in RF - he'll see how much less of a toll there is on his body compared to playing everyday in CF - and actually grow to like the transition.

We've just got to the point where he won't go there on his own, but if he's told to I think he'd be willing to accept it.

Remember a couple of years ago, when Miley decided to, for the first time ever, bat him somewhere other than 3rd.

He made a small stink about always batting 3rd his whole career, the media picked up on that it was major Reds news for several days.

Then just kind of accepted it, and he's been batting all over the lineup ever since.

I see the shift to RF in the same vein. Just do it JerryWayneNarronKrivskyZombo.com

by jmcclain19 on Oct 31, 2006 7:11 PM EST reply actions